Who all performed on the Return of the Jedi source music?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

This isn't so much of a "question" per say as it is just a curious thought I had while watching some featurettes, since I'm sure no one else here knows. For example, we all know that John wrote Lapti Nek while Joseph wrote the lyrics (and sang in the English demo), Annie Arbogast converted the lyrics and sang them in the film version, and Joseph Williams allegedly wrote the other source cue. But I'm curious who actually performed in those pieces. A lot of them were synth, while there was also a drumkit, bass, what sounds like a saxophone, etc. (plus backup singers in the demo). Were they perhaps just some random musicians that Joe knew? Or maybe were there some well-known musicians in the mix that we just don't know about?

[Meredith McKay 7,071]

Who says Joe didn't just perform some of them himself?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

Just now, Falco said:

Who says Joe didn't just perform some of them himself?

 

I was also going to say that. I'm curious how many instruments he can play if any.

[Thor 8,701]

Wait, what? John Williams wrote the music of "Lapti Nek"? I thought that was all Joseph?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

Wait, what? John Williams wrote the music of "Lapti Nek"? I thought that was all Joseph?

 

According to the documentary John wrote the underlying music while Joseph wrote the English lyrics.

[Thor 8,701]

That's great news, if so. For many years, I thought it was a JW original. Then it was Joseph. And now it's apparently JW again. Then I can keep it in my "John Williams party music" playlist.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

That's great news, if so. For many years, I thought it was a JW original. Then it was Joseph. And now it's apparently JW again. Then I can keep it in my "John Williams party music" playlist.

 

Here's the part from the doc by the way:

 

 

[Thor 8,701]

I've seen that documentary! For some reason, however, that piece of information passed me by. Thanks. This is all probably common knowledge to you STAR WARS folks.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,528]

I recall having discovered Lapti Nek only three years ago when I watched the despesialized edition of RotJ, I find it so sad that they'd remplaced it by Jedi Rocks which sounds far less good (although I still do like it)

 

By the way does anyone here know who writes the source music on the Jabba's sail barge?

 

[Jurassic Shark 13,741]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

But I'm curious who actually performed in those pieces.

 

It says some group named London Symphony Orchestra on the OST cover.

[bespinGPT 8,911]

The song is sung by Sny Snootles!

 

One hit wonder it seems...

 

[Jurassic Shark 13,741]

Not exactly a wonder...

[Aenae 41]

It was news for me too that Williams wrote the Lapti Nek music, cool. I have always liked that piece.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

9 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

By the way does anyone here know who writes the source music on the Jabba's sail barge?

 

That's the other piece I mentioned. Allegedly Joseph Williams also wrote that.

[Thor 8,701]

The quasi-baroque stuff? That's John, as far as I know.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

14 minutes ago, Thor said:

The quasi-baroque stuff? That's John, as far as I know.

 

That's a different piece (from when Jabba is first revealed), he's asking about the later unreleased Max Rebo / sail barge piece.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,528]

Yeah the other one is Jabba's Baroque Recital and it has been already released. I was referring to the Max Rebo Band cues which are yet unreleased and might never been as Williams doesn't fancy much source music from what I understand

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

It's one cue, just two different halves of it. From what I understand it was supposed to be on the '97 SE set (and also the cancelled 5th disc of the '93 Anthology) but the recording was missing, and might still be. There's a few other recordings that were allegedly lost as well including the unreleased Jabba the Hutt concert suite.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,528]

I didn't know that it was planned to be on the '93 and '97 edition, so sad they lost it.

How can they loose the recording of such a score. I mean I understand that one might lose his keys but a JW's Star Wars recording that's something that nobody should be able to lose.

[QuartalHarmony 720]

Whilst we’re on the subject, have we ever had a list of named musicians for the Cantina Band pieces from ANH?

[1977 1,746]

On 5/17/2021 at 12:24 PM, May the Force be with You said:

How can they loose the recording of such a score. I mean I understand that one might lose his keys but a JW's Star Wars recording that's something that nobody should be able to lose.

 

I think the story goes that Lucasfilm loaned the master tape with that cue to CBS for use in one their documentaries (not sure if it was "Classic Creatures" or "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga") and they misplaced the tape.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,528]

It would be so sad if it was just that

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

I think the story goes that Lucasfilm loaned the master tape with that cue to CBS for use in one their documentaries (not sure if it was "Classic Creatures" or "From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga") and they misplaced the tape.

 

It all makes sense now... CBS owns Star Trek, so they stole the tape as an act of war against Star Wars!

[Brando 2,235]

5 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

It all makes sense now... CBS owns Star Trek, so they stole the tape as an act of war against Star Wars!

This might turn into a standoff like the scene from Fanboys😂😂

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

I seem to have come across an interesting development. Someone on one of my "Max Rebo Band" videos commented that in an interview Ben Burtt had said that Ernie Fosselius had worked on all of the source cues for ROTJ. I've just noticed his name on both IMDB and Wiki, and a 2017 article about the scenes casually saying that they music itself was written by John Williams and Ernie Fosselius, with lyrics by Joseph Williams, and Annie Arbogast (who translated the words), and other claims that Ernie Fosselius wrote the Sail Barge source cue.

 

Does anyone have any additional information about this? I'd never heard of Ernie Fosselius' Star Wars involvement until just now.

 

EDIT: He's credited on the '93 Anthology set, I just hadn't noticed that before.

[Datameister 2,362]

Interesting...news to me!

[Naïve Old Fart 10,795]

Has anyone contacted Joseph Williams?

I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking about it.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

@Brando I think tried to a few months ago on Twitter and he never got back.

[BrotherSound 2,371]

20 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Does anyone have any additional information about this? I'd never heard of Ernie Fosselius' Star Wars involvement until just now.

 

No mention of any involvement with the music, but J.W. Rinzler's book on Return of the Jedi has this:

 

“The creator of Hardware Wars (1978), the first Star Wars parody/homage, Ernie Fosselius did the voices of the two rancor keepers. Per Burtt’s direction, he channeled Laurel and Hardy.”

 

Excerpt From: J.W. Rinzler. “The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (Enhanced Edition).” Random House Publishing Group, 2013. Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-making-of-star-wars-return-of-the-jedi-enhanced-edition/id669041848

 

For what it's worth, Fosselius doesn't have any official credit for composing any of the source cues:

 

Looks like this is the source of this particular rumor, but in the same article it also credits "Jedi Rocks" to both John Williams and Jerry Hey: https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars-the-changing-face-of-sy-snootles-the-max-rebo-band/

 

But I did find a reference to him working on arranging something for RotJ in this article https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-hardware-wars-creator-doesnt-love-that-last-jedi-tribute_n_5a673fdce4b0e56300739166:

 

"Fosselius said he wound up rearranging a John Williams piece in “Return of the Jedi,” too."

 

Then I found this WorldCat entry, which credits John Williams, Joseph Williams, and Ernie Fosselius as arrangers for Lapti Nek: https://www.worldcat.org/title/special-extended-dance-remix-of-lapti-nek-from-original-soundtrack-recording-of-star-wars-return-of-the-jedi/oclc/61464506

[Brando 2,235]

5 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

@Brando I think tried to a few months ago on Twitter and he never got back.

Yeah I did ask him hoping he would answer but he never did:(

[Darth Crossfader 603]

On 17/05/2021 at 12:03 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

It's one cue, just two different halves of it.

Is this a guess of yours, or is it mentioned somewhere in a film score magazine or liner notes? Definitely sounds like two different cues to me. The instrumentation of the two pieces seems to be a little different, for example. I hear an acoustic drum kit in the one performed at Jabba’s palace, whereas I hear some sort of drum machine in the one performed on the sail barge. Also, the synths used seem to be a little different.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

12 minutes ago, Jilal said:

Is this a guess of yours, or is it mentioned somewhere in a film score magazine or liner notes? Definitely sounds like two different cues to me. The instrumentation seems a little different to me, for example. I hear an acoustic drum kit in the one performed in Jabba’s palace, whereas I hear some sort of drum machine in the one performed on the sail barge. Also, the synths used seem to be a little different.

 

This was an old opinion of mine, I assumed just because they use the same melody they must be from the same cue. However I've come to realize when it comes to source cues in JW's scores, often there'll be a couple that utilize the same overall structure. Take "The Biker Hounds" and "Helicopter" from A.I. for example.

 

So I'm still a little on the fence, but am leaning more toward the opinion that they might be two separate cues, especially due to the different instrumentation. Also having a GEMA entry titled "Jabba Sail Barge Source" seems to poke a hole into my original belief.

 

I also had the same assumption about "Ewok Feast" and "Part of the Tribe" which have since leaked as two separate pieces.

[Darth Crossfader 603]

32 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

This was an old opinion of mine, I assumed just because they use the same melody they must be from the same cue. However I've come to realize when it comes to source cues in JW's scores, often there'll be a couple that utilize the same overall structure. Take "The Biker Hounds" and "Helicopter" from A.I. for example.

 

So I'm still a little on the fence, but am leaning more toward the opinion that they might be two separate cues, especially due to the different instrumentation. Also having a GEMA entry titled "Jabba Sail Barge Source" seems to poke a hole into my original belief.

 

I also had the same assumption about "Ewok Feast" and "Part of the Tribe" which have since leaked as two separate pieces.

By the way, the Jabba’s palace cue runs from start (13m10s) to finish (15m19s) here, which I guess supports my opinion.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

3 hours ago, Jilal said:

By the way, the Jabba’s palace cue runs from start (13m10s) to finish (15m19s) here, which I guess supports my opinion.

 

Yep that's partially the source I used for my own edit. They (both?) appear to be made to loop seamlessly. This one loops I believe once in FSWTJ, while the Sail Barge one loops I believe 3 times in the film.

[thx99 1,916]

So I heard this 1981 song yesterday and something jumped out at me which supports Rick James as the true composer of “Lapti Nek”…

 

(listen to the brass as 1:01, 1:17, and 1:44…)

 

 

[Holko 10,750]

This seems like a good thread to hijack: Rinzler's Making of RotJ: "(...)January 7th [1982](...) Lucas had brought the shooting script; the temporary music soundtrack for Jabba's throne room sequence, which John Williams had recorded only three days before". Is this Baroque Recital? Or the unknown unheard unused unreleased Jabba source cue?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

2 hours ago, Holko said:

This seems like a good thread to hijack: Rinzler's Making of RotJ: "(...)January 7th [1982](...) Lucas had brought the shooting script; the temporary music soundtrack for Jabba's throne room sequence, which John Williams had recorded only three days before". Is this Baroque Recital? Or the unknown unheard unused unreleased Jabba source cue?

 

There's not really information to go on, but I assume so. I couldn't find any source for when/where Baroque was recorded.

 

On 24/09/2021 at 11:59 AM, BrotherSound said:

But I did find a reference to him working on arranging something for RotJ in this article https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-hardware-wars-creator-doesnt-love-that-last-jedi-tribute_n_5a673fdce4b0e56300739166:

 

"Fosselius said he wound up rearranging a John Williams piece in “Return of the Jedi,” too."

 

Then I found this WorldCat entry, which credits John Williams, Joseph Williams, and Ernie Fosselius as arrangers for Lapti Nek: https://www.worldcat.org/title/special-extended-dance-remix-of-lapti-nek-from-original-soundtrack-recording-of-star-wars-return-of-the-jedi/oclc/61464506

 

Since @Holko revived the thread, I might as well mention that I recently noticed that Ernie Fosselius was officially credited right in front of my nose this whole time, on the '93 Anthology set: mbid-0ba1f076-e890-47c9-a479-612e7af7b8ac-7716735587.jpg (469×1023) (archive.org)

[BrotherSound 2,371]

3 hours ago, Holko said:

This seems like a good thread to hijack: Rinzler's Making of RotJ: "(...)January 7th [1982](...) Lucas had brought the shooting script; the temporary music soundtrack for Jabba's throne room sequence, which John Williams had recorded only three days before". Is this Baroque Recital? Or the unknown unheard unused unreleased Jabba source cue?

I figured this referred to ‘Lapti Nek’, because wouldn’t it be the only Jabba’s palace music with enough synchronized action to require on-set playback?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

That would make much more sense.

[Holko 10,750]

Yeah that'd make sense, he mentions a disco number sung by Joseph Williams later under a pic of Snootles. But... recorded by John?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

I'm sure he probably attended the recording since he was one of the writers...

 

or my original question in this thread was answered, and JW was the sole musician who played the drums, bass, saxophone, etc. 

[gregu 0]

I created an account just to add that I find it unacceptable that we don't know who voices the singers in John Williams' Jedi Rocks.

 

And if you think it's Annie Arbogast you're mistaken.

[Jay 40,305]

John Williams had nothing to do with Jedi Rocks.

[enderdrag64 1,010]

6 minutes ago, gregu said:

John Williams' Jedi Rocks.

John Williams had nothing to do with Jedi Rocks, that was written by Jerry Hey

 

Edit: Jay beat me by 30 seconds 

[Marian Schedenig 9,387]

Who by the way has another indirect connection with Joseph Williams, as he did the horn arrangements and played the trumpet on Toto's (pre-Joseph) Rosanna.

[Brando 2,235]

That’s pretty cool. Good song too.

[Jay 40,305]

Is that song really about Rosanna Arquette?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,510]

Jerry Hey was also a kazoo player on the Canto Bight music in TLJ!

[Brando 2,235]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Is that song really about Rosanna Arquette?

That seems to be partially true, in this article the member who wrote it says it was based on dating a girl from high school but then one band member was dating Arquette at the time but also Rosanna fit the best.