Poll: Favorite Recording of Excerpts From Close Encounters

[danbeck 123]

What is your favorite recording of Excerpts from Close Encounters and why?

 

Note: I have not included the Gerhardt recording as that is an extended 21 minutes suite (possibly the best of all) but not exactly the excerpts piece.

[Bellosh 3,403]

I believe I've only ever listened to the one on Williams/Spielberg Vol. 1.  But even then I'm not quite sure.

 

I've rarely listened to other recordings of this score.  It's usually a must to listen to the score from beginning to end for me.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

My favourite would be the arrangement which is on POPS IN SPACE.

[danbeck 123]

28 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

My favourite would be the arrangement which is on POPS IN SPACE.

It is the same recording included in the first option "By Request..." also released by Philips  (also my choice for best recording - which includes the "When You Wish Upon a Start" section (removed on the later versions). I'll amend the poll option to make this more clear.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

It is a shame that not everybody performs Gerhardt's extended version. But if we exclude that, Vienna it is.

[danbeck 123]

As great as the Vienna recording is I think the slightly longer version he recorded on the 80s and 90s (with When You Wish Upon A Star in the middle section) was superior specially for the chorus that IMO adds a lot to the ethereal quality of the first half of the piece.
And among the recordings of that arrangement (with the Boston Pops in 1980 for Pops In Space/By Request... and 1991 for Williams/Spielberg vol. 1) I think the first is superior.

[blondheim 1,157]

The Appearance of the Visitors is the most important cue in the score for me. Even if Gerhardt's wasn't simply the best interpretation regardless, that would give it the edge.

 

However, I am not that fond of the new insert for the spaceship and so even if the Vienna weren't the most incredible performance remaining, that would give it the edge.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

The Mehta / LA Phil recording is missing from the poll.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

21 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

It is a shame that not everybody performs Gerhardt's extended version. But if we exclude that, Vienna it is.

This times a thousand (to get a bit carried away about it!) As I have said on numerous occasions, this arrangement is absolutely stellar arrangement that transcends just being a concert suite to being a tone poem in the Richard Strauss, Sibelius etc. mould which captures the story in music over 20 minutes, organically moving from the spectral opening, through the more dissonant and unnerving central passages to the rhapsodic finale. I'm sure there are a number of Williams scores that would work superbly in this format (ET springs to mind) but I guess his preference is to condense them down to 5/10 minutes for a pops audience.

 

As to the original question, have to admit that non stand out in particular for me, but only because they are all well performed. One that is missing is the LA Philharmonic/Zubin Mehta recording which clocks in at 12.39. Listening to it now, I think it has a little more of the dissonent material at the start which accounts for the difference, I've not done a detailed side by side comparison. A fine recording and performance though, probably would go down as my favourite outside of the Gerhardt suite.

[danbeck 123]

50 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The Mehta / LA Phil recording is missing from the poll.

Added. Although it was not possible to do it in the proper chronology.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

The LSO version form the 2018 concert.

[blondheim 1,157]

I had forgotten about the Mehta recording. It has Appearance of the Visitors and is a good recording. It's not the Gerhardt but it was nice to hear again. Thanks for the remind.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

10 hours ago, blondheim said:

I had forgotten about the Mehta recording. It has Appearance of the Visitors and is a good recording. It's not the Gerhardt but it was nice to hear again. Thanks for the remind.

I think it's perhaps a touch better performed and recorded, but only marginal. Having that extra material does increase the build-up more effectively, albeit not as much as the Gerhardt arrangement. Does anyone know who did either of these arrangements? Gerhardt not using one of the standard concert arrangements doesn't seem too surprising given that he recorded longer suites and excerpts elsewhere but it does seem surprising that Mehta would have recorded a suite that wasn't the "standard" one.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

*Was* there a standard suite yet at the time these two recordings were made?

[Jay 37,336]

I don't have a clue if this is accurate or not, but discogs.com says Mehta's version first came out in France in 1977

 

https://www.discogs.com/Zubin-Mehta-Orchestre-Philharmonique-Los-Angeles-La-Guerre-Des-Étoiles-Et-Rencontres-Du-Troisième-/release/10298256

 

It has a 1978 date otherwise

 

https://www.discogs.com/Zubin-Mehta-Conducts-Los-Angeles-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Suites-From-Star-Wars-And-Close-Encounters-O/master/45657

 

If it really was out in 1977 in France, could it pre-date the Gerhardt recording?  Or is it an obvious mistake, and the album definitely didn't release until 1978?

[Ricard 2,245]

It's a mistake. The Mehta album was recorded in December 1977, and released three months later.

[Jay 37,336]

Brilliant, thanks

 

Any idea when the Gerhardt LP was recorded and released?

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

"Recorded December 23, 1977, at Kingsway Hall, London."

 

So *when* in December was the Mehta version recorded? 

[Ricard 2,245]

47 minutes ago, Jay said:

could it pre-date the Gerhardt recording?

 

It probably does, by a few days

[Jay 37,336]

6 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

"Recorded December 23, 1977, at Kingsway Hall, London."

 

So *when* in December was the Mehta version recorded? 

 

And at what date could one find each LP in stores?

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

My CD of the Gerhardt recording doesn't say, it justs lists 1978 as the (C) and (P) date. It does say that it was "remastered in BMG Studio D on August 23, 1989" - I suppose that's when the Dolby Surround stuff was done.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

There's an earlier CD release than the one with Dolby Surround. Perhaps someone here has it.

[Jay 37,336]

If both recordings were done in December 1977, there's no way either was in stores in 1977.  They're both 1978 albums then

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

Obviously. But that doesn't help us answer your own question.  

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

Wild (but not entirely unreasonable guess): the Gerhardt suite was arranged by Gerhardt (or someone who did arrangements for him - don't know if arranging was his thing!) and the Mehta one was an early version of JW's own suite, which he refined down a bit for the Boston Pops, maybe deciding that it should contain less of if the dissonent stuff at the start.

 

Just realised that my Gerhardt album has the channels crossed. No idea why. Can't find the bloody CD either... grrr.

[Jay 37,336]

I'm just planning on listening to all 7 recordings tomorrow, and was trying to figure out if I should start with the Gerhardt or start with the Mehta

 

Hmmm, what did Kunzel record from this score?  What about the City of Prague?

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Mehta: released March 1978.

 

https://www.discogs.com/Zubin-Mehta-Conducts-Los-Angeles-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Suites-From-Star-Wars-And-Close-Encounters-O/release/1306122

 

Couldn't find the same info for Gerhardt.

 

9 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Wild (but not entirely unreasonable guess): the Gerhardt suite was arranged by Gerhardt (or someone who did arrangements for him - don't know if arranging was his thing!) and the Mehta one was an early version of JW's own suite, which he refined down a bit for the Boston Pops, maybe deciding that it should contain less of if the dissonent stuff at the start.

 

Just realised that my Gerhardt album has the channels crossed. No idea why. Can't find the bloody CD either... grrr.

 

Transcribing film scores was very much his thing. I believe he did most of the transcriptions for the Classic Film Scores series himself.

[Ricard 2,245]

 

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Mehta: released March 1978.

 

Yeah that was mentioned a few posts above.

 

14 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Wild (but not entirely unreasonable guess): the Gerhardt suite was arranged by Gerhardt (or someone who did arrangements for him - don't know if arranging was his thing!) and the Mehta one was an early version of JW's own suite, which he refined down a bit for the Boston Pops, maybe deciding that it should contain less of if the dissonent stuff at the start.

 

I always thought that to be the case, since Mehta's Star Wars recording from the same album is faithful to Williams' original suite, while the Gerhardt SW suite changes the order, adds one movement, and some parts are different (not to mention the slower tempo).

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm just planning on listening to all 7 recordings tomorrow, and was trying to figure out if I should start with the Gerhardt or start with the Mehta

 

Hmmm, what did Kunzel record from this score?  What about the City of Prague?

Those two might spoil you for the rest but why not?! I reckon they are a great place to start, but I think they represent the best, although the Boston Pops versions are both great.

 

Kunzel recorded a 6 minute "main theme" from Close Encounters which is basically the last 6 minutes of the concert suite so without the opening chord or any of the material immediately thereafter, just starting on the soft introduction of the 5 note theme. However, it's a fine performance that ranks well against the others.

 

Looking at Soundtrack Collector, the Silva suite clocks in at just over 8 minutes so I'm guessing is one of the more or less "standard" versions mentioned above. However, the City of Prague Phil never really got the hang of JW's music so I'd be shocked if anyone picked that as their favourite choice if I'm honest...

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Mehta: March 1978

 

https://www.discogs.com/Zubin-Mehta-Conducts-Los-Angeles-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Suites-From-Star-Wars-And-Close-Encounters-O/release/1306122

 

Couldn't find the same info for Gerhardt.

 

Transcribing film scores was very much his thing. I believe he didn't most of the transcriptions for the Classic Film Scores series himself.

Well it would make sense that he borrowed the full score and prepared the suite from that. Presumably Williams was aware of Gerhardt from his other recordings and I imagine would have trust him to prepare something good. Plus I kinda think JW might have been a touch less precious in those days.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

4 minutes ago, Ricard said:

Yeah that was mentioned a few posts above.

 

I didn't see the month mentioned anywhere prior.

[Ricard 2,245]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I didn't see the month mentioned anywhere prior.

 

1 hour ago, Ricard said:

The Mehta album was recorded in December 1977, and released three months later.

 

But nevermind

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

5 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Well it would make sense that he borrowed the full score and prepared the suite from that. Presumably Williams was aware of Gerhardt from his other recordings and I imagine would have trust him to prepare something good. Plus I kinda think JW might have been a touch less precious in those days.

 

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest he transcribed Star Wars and CE3K, he probably had access to the scores.

 

1 minute ago, Ricard said:

But nevermind

 

I was talking about release date.

[Jay 37,336]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I didn't see the month mentioned anywhere prior.

 

1 hour ago, Ricard said:

It's a mistake. The Mehta album was recorded in December 1977, and released three months later.

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

7 minutes ago, Ricard said:

I always thought that to be the case, since Mehta's Star Wars recording from the same album is faithful to Williams' original suite, while the Gerhardt SW suite changes the order, adds one movement, and some parts are different (not to mention the slower tempo).

 

Well, we know that Gerhardt included Here They Come! as an addition to the official suite after he got the personal OK from Williams. Changing the order might have just been a result of that.

 

I guess it's reasonably to assume that Gerhardt did the arrangements he recorded himself, since I've never seen anyone credited on any of his recordings. But do we have any official info about this?

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

Shameless request... If anyone has the Gerhardt Star Wars/CE3K album in lossless who might be willing to share in lieu of my lost copy, I'd be super grateful.

[Ricard 2,245]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I was talking about release date.

 

See Jay's post above.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

Just now, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Well, we know that Gerhardt included Here They Come! as an addition to the official suite after he got the personal OK from Williams. Changing the order might have just been a result of that.

 

I guess it's reasonably to assume that Gerhardt did the arrangements he recorded himself, since I've never seen anyone credited on any of his recordings. But do we have any official info about this?

Nothing official, but certainly makes sense. Did Gerhardt to the arrangement of Here They Come or was that Williams' own? Another one of JW's concert arrangements where I prefer the original (per the other thread about JW concert arrangements) but I do understand why the opening with the sweeping version of Leia's theme and intro to Here They Come wouldn't work so well in concert, but still maintain the original Asteroid Field makes a perfectly great concert piece on its own terms.

[Jay 37,336]

2 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Shameless request... If anyone has the Gerhardt Star Wars/CE3K album in lossless who might be willing to share in lieu of my lost copy, I'd be super grateful.

 

This type of post is against the rules

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

4 minutes ago, Ricard said:

 

See Jay's post above.

 

Ah, I thought you were speaking approximately, in which case "three months after" isn't necessary the third month after.

[Jay 37,336]

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

This type of post is against the rules

Oops sorry!

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Ah, I thought you were speaking approximately, in which case "three months after" isn't necessary the third month after.

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

I hate when that happens!

[Martinland 358]

On 5/22/2021 at 11:53 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

Gerhardt's extended version. But if we exclude that, Vienna it is.

Indeed. Even if I repeat myself (does it matter after those hundreds and hundreds of groundhog days?): I still remember clearly after having been transported into another state of mind by the Flight to Neverland and the absolutely incredible acoustics of the Musikvereinssaal (I envy you to have that in reach, so to speak) that I was moved to tears of joy by John Williams' and the VPO's performance of Close Encounters although I experienced the same with the London Symphony under his direction too.

I will never forget looking up to the ceiling of the Golden Hall and thinking ... these moments are precious. If only I had known *how* precious they really were...

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

1 hour ago, Martinland said:

the absolutely incredible acoustics of the Musikvereinssaal (I envy you to have that in reach, so to speak)

 

I'll be back in that hall with the choir in November if all goes well.

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Cool. What will you sing?

[danbeck 123]

Intersting, just listened to the Mike Matessino talk on Legacy of JW about the new releases of Images and Always and Tim Burden mentions that the 1991 recording for the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration vol.1 with the Boston Pops is Williams personal favorite recording of Close Encounters.

[stravinsky 206]

No one has mentioned an EMI Music for Pleasure release containing suites from E.T Close Encounters and Star Wars. Someone called Frank Barber conducting the LSO and National Philharmonic. I bought this on tape when I was 12 years old. It may not have been available in the USA. The album was released on CD by Cinephile. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,051]

Had it, sold it. It was definitely a second rate recording and performance.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

Just giving the Mehta recording another listen... definitely think it pips the Gerhart performance in terms of technical brilliance and interpretation (and somewhat more dynamic than JW's own performances of the suite), so think it remains my top choice performance wise even if the Gerhardt one is my preference in terms of the actual arrangement.