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Temple of Doom Sanskrit Sacrifice/Sacrifice Sweetener/Drums


Brando
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I’ve been wondering what music specifically the cue list is referring to when it says “Sanskrit Sweetener”. Is this the extra choir or is it the added percussion? Or both? And the shot before Mola Ram walks in where we see the drummer, would that have been composed by JW or source music?(I really like those drums so I’d hope he did it). And after Indy takes the potion and after we find out Short Round has been captured, there’s music here with choir and the same drummer as before(drumming at a different speed this time), right before “The Temple of Doom” is heard. Would that be source music not recorded by JW or did he also write that?

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The sheet music leak has a "Sanskrit Sacrifice", a "Sacrifice Sweetener", three "Percussion Sweetener"s, "More Sacrifice" and "Sanskrit Continued"... but no "Sanskrit Sweetener".  Where'd you see that?  Got a direct link?

 

John Williams wrote every note of music you hear in the entire film (barring the Cole Porter adaptation, natch)

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

three "Percussion Sweetener"s

Those are definitely the bits for the closeups of the percussion set.

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Hmm.

 

 

 

These are the big timpani cutaway bits I was thinking of. Wonder how Mike will do this, the film audio's a mess of edits, overlays, sweeteners, tracks edited together. I really hope it's not just the album track and the playoff in the main program and that's it.

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59 minutes ago, Jay said:

The sheet music leak has a "Sanskrit Sacrifice", a "Sacrifice Sweetener", three "Percussion Sweetener"s, "More Sacrifice" and "Sanskrit Continued"... but no "Sanskrit Sweetener".  Where'd you see that?  Got a direct link?

 

John Williams wrote every note of music you hear in the entire film (barring the Cole Porter adaptation, natch)

 

I don't think we've ever had confirmation of whether Williams was involved with the first piece of Pankot Palace source music, have we? For the second one, he obviously just directed the players to improvise on a particular scale that was compatible with his orchestral interjections for the different food items. But I'd believe it if we learned he had nothing to do with the first piece. I honestly hear more Williams in his arrangement of "Anything Goes" - it's obviously Cole Porter's song, but JW's musical fingerprints are alllllllll over the arrangement.

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3 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I don't think we've ever had confirmation of whether Williams was involved with the first piece of Pankot Palace source music, have we?

 

True, there's been no actual confirmation.  But the end credits don't credit anyone else for this music, which even by 1984 they were pretty good at doing.

 

For anyone who doesn't know what we're discussing, the music we're talking about plays from 1:00-2:48 in this video

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

John Williams wrote every note of music you hear in the entire film...

Speaking of which...is there a clean version of the music that the Indian women dance to, at Pankot Palace?

I like that cue.

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That's the music we're talking about in the most recent posts, that we have no way of knowing if JW wrote it or not.

 

Legally, the only music released clean from this score is what ended up on the old OST album, the Concord expansion, and the Lego video game files.  And none of those featured the music in question.

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14 hours ago, Jay said:

The sheet music leak has a "Sanskrit Sacrifice", a "Sacrifice Sweetener", three "Percussion Sweetener"s, "More Sacrifice" and "Sanskrit Continued"... but no "Sanskrit Sweetener".  Where'd you see that?  Got a direct link?

I combined both names, “Sanskrit Sacrifice and S. Sweetener” by accident haha. 

14 hours ago, Jay said:

John Williams wrote every note of music you hear in the entire film (barring the Cole Porter adaptation, natch)

Thank you for the reply! I love the percussion in that cue and was hoping it was apart of the score and not source music.

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23 minutes ago, Brando said:

I combined both names, “Sanskrit Sacrifice and S. Sweetener” by accident haha. 

Thank you for the reply! I love the percussion in that cue and was hoping it was apart of the score and not source music.

 

The sacrifice music would all be considered source music, though it starts to intermingle with the score later on and even shows up as part of the score in the broken bridge cue. Source music is just any music that's part of the environment depicted in the film, i.e. music the characters can hear too. Doesn't matter whether it was written by the score composer or not. :)

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11 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

The sacrifice music would all be considered source music, though it starts to intermingle with the score later on and even shows up as part of the score in the broken bridge cue. Source music is just any music that's part of the environment depicted in the film, i.e. music the characters can hear too. Doesn't matter whether it was written by the score composer or not. :)

The term source music is confusing to me. I know what it is, music that is in the movie and the characters hear it(such as the Cantina Band 1&2, and the Max Reebo stuff), but I read a comment somewhere the other day that JW doesn’t like to include source music on his albums. Can you or anyone expand on this?

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Dracula - None of the source music (classical music playing from an on-screen record player) were included

Well, two pieces of JW-recorded classical music and one piece of JW-composed classical-ish music.

 

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Jaws - he approved the inclusion of the Joplin rag, waltzes, and marching band cues, but axed the music the characters listen to in the opening beach scene

Weren't there more marching band rehearsal pieces that he axed?

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For Jaws and Jaws 2, Mike said this in my Q&A with him:

 

Jaws:

 

Quote

After the LP presentation on Disc 2 of the new Intrada set, “Music From Amity Town Beach” presents some of the source music recorded for the film. Were those found on the same master tapes, in the same condition, as the main score tracks?

That material was recorded at Universal and was on separate 1/2” rolls. They were completely split three-track mono so I applied my usual methods to mixing those.

 

Was there any other source music found that is not included on the new release?

There were two pieces of source music that John Williams wrote which he did not want included. There were various other things as well that were recorded but not considered for the release: instrumental backing for “I Honestly Love You” and “Having My Baby,” plus mono bits of Beethoven, Mozart and Hoffstetter, all used for the first town beach scene. There was also the kids’ band in the street rehearsing “Semper Fidelis,” lifeguard whistles, and things like that. But it was great to find two Williams-composed marches that we were able to include.

 

Jaws 2:

 

Quote

The FSM Online article also mentions that the “Amity High School Band” material was likewise not found on the 3-track. What about the beach rock music – is that lost as well, or preserved but simply not included in the new release?

The high school band material was probably done as pre-records by someone other than John Williams. We did have the beach music that he composed, but he didn’t want to include it on the release. I did try!

 

https://www.jwfan.com/?p=8269

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Beach rock source from Jaws 2? What scene is that?

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21 minutes ago, Jay said:

This one, I guess

 

 

I honest thought that was a radio station or someone with a stereo. Interesting. So JW recorded the marching band music from the first movie?

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Just now, Brando said:

I honest thought that was a radio station or someone with a stereo. Interesting.

 

What do you mean? I'm sure it is

 

Just now, Brando said:

 

So JW recorded the marching band music from the first movie?

 

Yea 

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14 hours ago, Brando said:

So JW recorded the marching band music from the first movie?

 

Yes, and it was him playing trombone, together with Spielberg playing clarinet and Malcolm McNab playing trumpet.

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On 5/25/2021 at 12:08 PM, Holko said:

These are the big timpani cutaway bits I was thinking of. Wonder how Mike will do this, the film audio's a mess of edits, overlays, sweeteners, tracks edited together. I really hope it's not just the album track and the playoff in the main program and that's it.

Yes!! I always wondered how on earth a proper presentation of the sacrificial scenes unreleased music can be put together for an album presentation without excluding anything. Only MM can do this.

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9 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

Yes, and it was him playing trombone, together with Spielberg playing clarinet and Malcolm McNab playing trumpet.

Oh THATS what Spielberg helped record. I always read that he played clarinet, but I had no idea it was for the band. Maybe I did read that and I got it confused with something else...thanks for letting me know, that's a really cool fact!

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2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

 

I've always found it quite funny that Hammond points out the score as being temporary and will eventually be replaced, despite the fact that the music is obviously incredibly detailed and was clearly written, orchestrated and recorded (spared no expense) specifically for that animation, sync points and all. What kind of monster would replace that? Still, it fits with his character arc I guess. Hammond is a stand-in for the Hollywood producer tyrants. 

Tbh I always thought he was referring to something else. Gives me an excuse to watch the movie again🤷‍♂️

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2 hours ago, Brando said:

Tbh I always thought he was referring to something else. Gives me an excuse to watch the movie again🤷‍♂️

 

No he's totally referring to Williams's fantastic cartoon pastiche. The best part is that he says it'll be replaced with a march or something - which is, I'm sure, an intentional reference to the sorts of music people more commonly associate with Williams. :lol:

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On 5/26/2021 at 7:06 PM, Brando said:

The term source music is confusing to me. I know what it is, music that is in the movie and the characters hear it(such as the Cantina Band 1&2, and the Max Reebo stuff).

 

On 5/26/2021 at 9:01 PM, Jay said:

Source music does indeed mean music that is supposed to be coming from a source the characters in the film could hear, it's also known as diegetic music.

 

Source music and diegetic music aren't the same. You both described the latter. Source music just refers to the fact that it was not particularly written for the film, but instead taken from a pre-existing source and used for the film. There's intradiegetic music on one and extradiegetic music on the other hand; and then there's the source music on one and the score on the other hand. I'm not quite sure what pre-existing, however, newly arranged pieces would qualify as.

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11 hours ago, Brando said:

Oh THATS what Spielberg helped record. I always read that he played clarinet, but I had no idea it was for the band. Maybe I did read that and I got it confused with something else...thanks for letting me know, that's a really cool fact!

 

It's true, and it's one of the stories that many musicians who were there confirmed to me when I talked to them (and they loved also to share). Since it had to sound like a band of amateur musicians, they had some fun playing it "wrong".

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5 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

 

 

Source music and diegetic music aren't the same. You both described the latter. Source music just refers to the fact that it was not particularly written for the film, but instead taken from a pre-existing source and used for the film. There's intradiegetic music on one and extradiegetic music on the other hand; and then there's the source music on one and the score on the other hand. I'm not quite sure what pre-existing, however, newly arranged pieces would qualify as.

 

Source?

 

...sorry, couldn't help myself. But actually, seriously, I'm having a lot of trouble finding a single reputable source that agrees with your definition. Across the board, the term "source music" is both academically and practically defined as music that emanates from a source within the scene, i.e. diegetic music.

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Not to mention cue lists that have Source Music (where the composer wrote it and characters in the film can hear it) listed with an "S" on the end of the reel number...indicating Source.

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I assume Williams or Spielberg just didn't want it included. I'm sure Mike tried hard to convince them. 

 

If they have to reconfigure the album to print any more copies, it seems like as good excuse as any to make additions like that. 

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That makes sense and is good enough confirmation for me! 

 

Now I wonder if it can be identified by someone with a collection of old records... 

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I have a few Sri Lankan friends here. I’ll run the music with them and see if they can pick this up. The language used in the film and spoken by Harrison Ford  is both in native Sri Lankan and Hindi. It’s just so embarrassing that the was no consistency for accuracy in the film. Incidentally, I tried speaking some of the Ford’s dialect with my Sr Lankan friend and he immediately responded thereby confirming the Sri Lankan  ‘Sinhala’😁

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Could it be an obscure library piece they just mimed along to? Has anyone tried to Shazam it yet?

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Music libraries in 1984 were a much different thing than they're today, so I guess it's likely an ad lib on that Indian ceremonial style Amer was referring in his post above.

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The only thing that riles me about the Sanscript chants are the western performers- it still sounds like a westerner is trying to emulate the sound in their own western accent trying hard to be as accurate possible. Its a common problem when Hollywood tries to do the same for most Russian choral texts in scores. Such as the Hymn from HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER which my Russain speaking friends can barely makout what those lyrics are even saying.

 

I cant make out exactly what they are chanting throughout in Sanskrit in 'Temple of Doom' cue but I do recognise some wordings which make sense:

 

"Tum Hum saey mangta, Hum Tum se Mangta " which is (Sacrafice) "That which you want from us, And What we want from you" 

 

the rest are chanting "Mola Ram Sudh Ram, Jai Ram, Jai Ram" etc

 

Does anyone have the cue's acual score sheet? 

 

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Yes the sheet music for Sanskrit Sacrifice leaked decades ago

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8 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Music libraries in 1984 were a much different thing than they're today, so I guess it's likely an ad lib on that Indian ceremonial style Amer was referring in his post above.

 

Libraries were still big in the 70s, even if there weren't as many of them as there are today. If the Monty Python chaps could score an entire film using stock music from one library, SS could easily find  something like this.

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On 5/26/2021 at 2:45 PM, Jay said:

For Jaws and Jaws 2, Mike said this in my Q&A with him:

 

Jaws:

 

Was there any other source music found that is not included on the new release?

There were two pieces of source music that John Williams wrote which he did not want included. There were various other things as well that were recorded but not considered for the release: instrumental backing for “I Honestly Love You” and “Having My Baby,” plus mono bits of Beethoven, Mozart and Hoffstetter, all used for the first town beach scene. There was also the kids’ band in the street rehearsing “Semper Fidelis,” lifeguard whistles, and things like that. But it was great to find two Williams-composed marches that we were able to include.

 

I've always noted that the kids are not playing "Semper Fidelis," they are playing "Semper Paratus," which is the Coast Guard Song. Additionally, the arrangement they are playing is not even remotely by Williams, it is the official version as written by composer Francis van Boskerck and arranged for band by William Schoenfield. The liner notes say "two marches composed by John Williams," which is not accurate. Not slighting Williams' score of course (and of course I LOVE Mike's notes and the whole packaging), but credit should go where it's due. 

 

 

Also: I've always been troubled that this tune was not mentioned remotely in the liner credits. "Semper Paratus" is NOT public domain, and remains under copyright by Sam Fox. I would think they would get a mention in the liner note credits, but there's nothing. I do hope the Intrada folks realized this was not a JW march or some public domain thing and that they didn't just overlook it in licensing. Sam Fox is notoriously very litigious, and if they caught wind of a big release without the proper permissions they would not be happy about it. :-/ 

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4 minutes ago, airmanjerm said:

I've always noted that the kids are not playing "Semper Fidelis," they are playing "Semper Paratus," which is the Coast Guard Song.

 

Haha, I didn't realize that - that's great information!  Thank you!

 

4 minutes ago, airmanjerm said:

Additionally, the arrangement they are playing is not even remotely by Williams, it is the official version as written by composer Francis van Boskerck and arranged for band by William Schoenfield. Not slighting Williams of course, but credit should go where it's due. 

 

I don't see anywhere in that quote from Mike where he claims that Williams arranged it?

 

4 minutes ago, airmanjerm said:

Also: I've always been troubled that this tune was not mentioned remotely in the liner credits. "Semper Paratus" is NOT public domain, and remains under copyright by Sam Fox. I would think they would get a mention in the liner note credits, but there's nothing. I do hope the Intrada folks realized this was not a JW march or some public domain thing and that they didn't just overlook it in licensing. Sam Fox is notoriously very litigious, and if they caught wind of a big release without the proper permissions they would not be happy about it. :-/ 

 

Wait, what?  Are you saying that either "Marching Band No. 1" or "Marching Band No. 2" on the Intrada CD is actually Semper Paratus?

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11 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Haha, I didn't realize that - that's great information!  Thank you!

 

 

I don't see anywhere in that quote from Mike where he claims that Williams arranged it?

 

 

Wait, what?  Are you saying that either "Marching Band No. 1" or "Marching Band No. 2" on the Intrada CD is actually Semper Paratus?

Yes, "Marching Band #2" is the official Coast Guard song (reference that video I posted earlier - it's literally the same tune, albeit a different recording).

 

At the very end of the liner notes (right before the final paragraph begins), the notes say "Four 'beach band' pieces heard in the film are followed by two marches composed by John Williams. Be sure to listen for the director on clarinet!"

 

You know I love the release and the folks who made it happen, this is just an odd (and exceptionally RARE) inaccuracy.

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Got it.

 

So maybe "Marching Band No. 1" is also an existing march and not a JW composition?

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