Always (1989) - 2021 Expanded Edition from La-La Land Records

[Jay 37,249]

Since he wrote the liner notes, I'd assume when he says the album take was the original version, then maybe indeed they came up with the celeste idea after the fact

[MrJosh 892]

I got my copy yesterday, and just finished listening through it. 

 

My favorite things are hearing the not-heard-before bits of alternates, like the Alternate End Credits, and little playful insert bits in The Old Timer's Shack. And it's great to hear the alternate Follow Me in proper quality!

 

Really happy that this one received an expansion and that it nicely all barely fits on one packed disc. I'm going to listen through it a couple more times this week and let some of it sink in more. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Just now, MrJosh said:

Really happy that this one received an expansion and that it nicely all barely fits on one packed disc.

 

I wonder what wonderful alternates they had to drop to achieve that.

[Faleel 5,326]

Mine arrived today!

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:01 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

I wonder what wonderful alternates they had to drop to achieve that.

 

Just 3 more versions of Dorinda Survives.

[MrJosh 892]

2 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

 

Just 3 more versions of Dorinda Survives.

That would only be if J.J. had directed the movie. Then we'd get:

 

15M2 Dorinda Survives

15M2R Dorinda Survives

15M2R Insert

15M2R V2 (with JJ fix bars 4, 9, 23)

15M2R V3 (fix) w More Plane Insert and JJ fix 43 Insert for 15M2R Insert (with Tracked 1M4 Insert, new bars 1-2)

[Steve 589]

Finally listening to this special score.

Just one short question:

Does Williams play the piano parts himself? 

 

Edit: Sorry, should have read the liner notes before asking 

[Tallguy 3,359]

22 minutes ago, Steve said:

Finally listening to this special score.

Just one short question:

Does Williams play the piano parts himself? 

 

Edit: Sorry, should have read the liner notes before asking 

 

My liner notes are on the other side of the country right now. What's the answer?

[TJH132 48]

Am I listening to a different score/watching a different movie, because the end credits I remember seeing in the theater and have on Blu-Ray finish with the big "Dorinda Solo Flight" music (right up through the Amblin logo), not either of the two "End Credits" on the album.

[Steve 589]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

 

My liner notes are on the other side of the country right now. What's the answer?

Williams is playing all keyboard parts on the album himself.

[crumbs 14,287]

40 minutes ago, TJH132 said:

Am I listening to a different score/watching a different movie, because the end credits I remember seeing in the theater and have on Blu-Ray finish with the big "Dorinda Solo Flight" music (right up through the Amblin logo), not either of the two "End Credits" on the album.

 

Yes, that music was tracked there from Dorinda Solo Flight. The LLL presents Williams' two intended end credits suites as recorded: an early version which was rejected (and contains excerpts of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes) and a revised version which was mostly used in the final cut (and had the ending replaced by tracked music from DSF).

[Tallguy 3,359]

4 hours ago, Steve said:

Williams is playing all keyboard parts on the album himself.

Clearly I need to reread it with both eyes this time! 

[Chewy 2,372]

Does the booklet come with the usual technical note written by Mike?

I'm really curious what sources were used for this new release, I don't think it's been discussed anywhere yet.

[TownerFan 4,983]

20 hours ago, Steve said:

Williams is playing all keyboard parts on the album himself.

 

I think you're mixing this with Images. The keyboardists on Always are Ralph Grierson, Randy Kerber, Mike Lang and Chet Swiatkowski.

Kerber and Grierson did perform the synth parts, while Lang and Swiatkowski were mostly playing piano. Anyway, back in those days (late '80s and early '90s) it was either Swiatkowski or Grierson performing the piano solos.

[Steve 589]

1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

 

I think you're mixing this with Images. The keyboardists on Always are Ralph Grierson, Randy Kerber, Mike Lang and Chet Swiatkowski.

Kerber and Grierson did perform the synth parts, while Lang and Swiatkowski were mostly playing piano. Anyway, back in those days (late '80s and early '90s) it was either Swiatkowski or Grierson performing the piano solos.

Oh yes, you are right. I posted in the wrong topic. Sorry, my post refers to Images.

[Jay 37,249]

On 7/11/2021 at 9:39 AM, TJH132 said:

Am I listening to a different score/watching a different movie, because the end credits I remember seeing in the theater and have on Blu-Ray finish with the big "Dorinda Solo Flight" music (right up through the Amblin logo), not either of the two "End Credits" on the album.

 

In the actual final film, what Spielberg had the music editors cobble together for the end credits is:

• 1:56:21-1:57:25 (1:04) = about a minute of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes by The Platters

• 1:57:25-2:00:45 (3:20) = The entire main end credits cue, IE LLL 15 "End Credits" [0:00-3:20]

• 2:00:45-2:01:05 (0:20) = The beginning of the "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" version of the second end credits piece, IE LLL 21 "End Credits (Alternate)” [3:03-4:52], but Spielberg only kept in the 3:03-3:24 part which doesn't get to Smoke Gets In Your Eyes yet

• 2:01:05-2:02:22 (1:17) = a tracked repeat of exact same music that just ended the film proper, IE LLL 14 "Dorinda Solo Flight” [all] , with only 2:09-end being used here

[Jay 37,249]

6 hours ago, Chewy said:

Does the booklet come with the usual technical note written by Mike?

 

He wrote all the notes in the entire booklet, but there is no technical section. 

 

Quote

I'm really curious what sources were used for this new release, I don't think it's been discussed anywhere yet.

 

Which elements were used is not revealed; There's no credit for anyone doing a new transfer, which could indicate a digital element from 1989 was used; I cannot recall off the top of my head if anyone gets credited for analog transfers on other Universal Pictures projects MM does, or if Universal does it all internally with no specific credit given out.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

They used state-of-the-art 128 kbps mp3 files.

[Chewy 2,372]

43 minutes ago, Jay said:

Which elements were used and/or what specs they were transferred at is not revealed; There's also no credit for anyone doing a new transfer, which could indicate a digital element from 1989 was used.

 

Just noticed this in The Legacy Of John Williams article:

 

Quote

Mike Matessino restored and remastered the soundtrack from first-generation elements vaulted at Universal, bringing even more clarity and nuance to the already brilliant original recording

 

So first generation digital masters I guess? Pretty much like Far & Away.

[Jay 37,249]

We could probably look at other Shawn Murphy recordings from the late 80s / early 90s to get an idea

[Chewy 2,372]

The samples seem to indicate the used source is digital since the first tracks phase perfectly with the OST.

[Amer 2,078]

20 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

I think you're mixing this with Images. The keyboardists on Always are Ralph Grierson, Randy Kerber, Mike Lang and Chet Swiatkowski.

Kerber and Grierson did perform the synth parts, while Lang and Swiatkowski were mostly playing piano. Anyway, back in those days (late '80s and early '90s) it was either Swiatkowski or Grierson performing the piano solos.

Yes, I just noticed on the SOMEWHERE IN TIME Tracklist that Chet Swiatkowski was also the pianist on ' Rhapsody On A Theme Of Paganini'

[TownerFan 4,983]

Swiatkowski became JW's preferred pianist after Grierson moved more and more toward synth for John. It's Chet performing the exquisite solos on such scores as The Witches of Eastwick, The Accidental Tourist, Always, Presumed Innocent.

[Jay 37,249]

Well, to go along with the theme list I made for the OST album:

 

On 6/10/2021 at 4:58 PM, Jay said:

Pete and Dorinda

• 7 Among The Clouds @ 2:58, 6:27
• 10 Saying Goodbye @ 1:07, 2:17
• 11 Pete and Dorinda @ 0:00, 2:04
• 12 The Return @ 1:27, 1:57
• 13 The Rescue Operation @ 3:34, 4:37
• 14 Seeing Dorinda @ 1:54
• 15 Intimate Conversation @ 0:32
• 17 The Old Timer's Shack @ 1:12
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 0:09, 2:03, 3:28

Pete

• 7 Among The Clouds @ 1:58, 4:38, 7:43
• 12 The Return @ 1:18
• 13 The Rescue Operation @ 3:23, 4:23, 4:51
• 18 Dorinda's Solo Flight @ 2:43
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 4:33

Dorinda

• 13 The Rescue Operation @ 3:04, 4:06
• 18 Dorinda's Solo Flight @ 0:38, 2:17
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 0:58

Epic Jim Thatcher Horn Solo (resolution to Pete and Dorinda's theme)

• 7 Among The Clouds @ 3:10
• 18 Dorinda's Solo Flight @ 1:42
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 2:19

 

 

Here's a list for the LLL album

 

Pete and Dorinda

• 01 Intimate Conversation @ 0:32
• 03 Saying Goodbye @ 1:07, 2:17
• 05 The Return @ 1:26, 1:57
• 06 The Old Timer's Shack @ 1:12
• 08 Seeing Dorinda @ 0:37, 1:54
• 09 Ted's Heroics And Pete's Aura @ 2:50
• 10 Pete and Dorinda @ 0:00, 2:04, 3:20
• 12 The Rescue Operation @ 3:34, 4:37
• 13 Among The Clouds @ 2:58, 6:27
• 15 End Credits @ 0:09, 2:03
   
• 17 The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate) @ 1:12
• 19 The Rescue Operation (Alternate) @ 3:35
• 20 Among The Clouds (Alternate) @ 2:16
• 21 End Credits (Alternate) @ 0:08, 2:24
   
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 0:09, 2:03, 3:28

Pete

• 02 Premonitions @ 0:00
• 05 The Return @ 1:18
• 09 Ted's Heroics And Pete's Aura @ 1:39
• 12 The Rescue Operation @ 3:23, 4:23, 4:51
• 13 Among The Clouds @ 1:58, 4:38, 7:43
• 14 Dorinda's Solo Flight @ 2:52
• 15 End Credits @ 3:10
   
• 19 The Rescue Operation (Alternate) @ 2:14, 4:22
• 20 Among The Clouds (Alternate) @ 0:14, 1:17, 3:18
• 21 End Credits (Alternate) @ 2:53
   
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 4:33

Dorinda

• 12 The Rescue Operation @ 3:04, 4:06
• 14 Dorinda's Solo Flight @ 0:38, 2:23
   
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 0:58

Epic Jim Thatcher Horn Solo (resolution to Pete and Dorinda's theme)

• 13 Among The Clouds @ 3:10
• 14 Dorinda's Solo Flight @ 1:46
• 21 End Credits (Alternate) @ 5:00
   
• Spielberg/Williams track @ 2:19

Garryowen (Traditional)

• 15 End Credits @ 3:46

Smoke Gets In Your Eyes (Jerome Kern)

• 19 The Rescue Operation (Alternate) @ 2:26, 2:37, 3:06, 3:21, 3:41
• 21 End Credits (Alternate) @ 1:14, 1:47, 3:42

[crlbrg 381]

Meanwhile my copy is still on a road-trip in the US.

[Josh500 1,615]

2 hours ago, carlborg said:

Meanwhile my copy is still on a road-trip in the US.

 

Always the same!

[Jay 37,249]

Anyone else notice when listening to "End Credits (Alternate)" that the gorgeous horn solo passage at the end of it was clearly the basis for that previously unidentified middle section of the concert arrangement track (IE, the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration album track?)

 

I suppose if one wanted to, one could re-create that track, more or less, using the original recordings...

• 0:00-0:59 = is basically End Credits 0:00-1:04
• 0:59-1:58 = is basically Dorinda’s Solo Flight 0:40-1:40
• 1:58-3:16 = is basically End Credits (Alternate) 4:52-5:55
• 3:16-end = is basically Among The Clouds 6:12-end

[Tallguy 3,359]

12 hours ago, Jay said:

Anyone else notice when listening to "End Credits (Alternate)" that the gorgeous horn solo passage at the end of it was clearly the basis for that previously unidentified middle section of the concert arrangement track (IE, the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration album track?)

 

I suppose if one wanted to, one could re-create that track, more or less, using the original recordings...

• 0:00-0:59 = is basically End Credits 0:00-1:04
• 0:59-1:58 = is basically Dorinda’s Solo Flight 0:40-1:40
• 1:58-3:16 = is basically End Credits (Alternate) 4:52-5:55
• 3:16-end = is basically Among The Clouds 6:12-end

 

I... have not. I'll have to go listen.

 

@Jay it's interesting that you identify that theme as Dorinda's. I mean, it makes sense. But it's interesting because if that's the intention then she doesn't get a theme until the very end of the film. If I want to get too deep: She doesn't get a theme until she breaks away from Pete and Ted. It's also not in Among the Clouds at all!

 

16 hours ago, carlborg said:

Meanwhile my copy is still on a road-trip in the US.

Good luck!

[Chewy 2,372]

On 7/18/2021 at 5:14 PM, Jay said:

Pete and Dorinda

• 08 Seeing Dorinda @ 1:54

 

I'm hearing the theme at 0:37 too!

[Jay 37,249]

10 hours ago, Tallguy said:

@Jay it's interesting that you identify that theme as Dorinda's. I mean, it makes sense. But it's interesting because if that's the intention then she doesn't get a theme until the very end of the film. If I want to get too deep: She doesn't get a theme until she breaks away from Pete and Ted. It's also not in Among the Clouds at all!

 

Yea, this came up earlier in the thread, when Tim Burden posted a picture of the booklet credits and I noticed that while the bulk of the score was recorded the last week of October and first week of November, they came back almost an entire month later for more recording in December, only 2 1/2 weeks before the film was set to open.

 

I therefore speculated that it's extremely likely the "Dorinda Theme" was never part of the architecture of the score originally, since the original version of "The Rescue Operation" used "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" instead, and the first two versions of "Dorinda Survives" (the second half of the "Among The Clouds" track and the new "Among The Clouds (Alternate)" track) don't use it either.

 

I therefore think that after the initial scoring sessions, Spielberg felt something wasn't working right towards the end of the film, and he not only re-edited the picture, but also asked JW to come up with a theme to represent Dorinda herself, or at least her decision to fly solo to put out the fire and all its consequences... and that's when we got the new revised ending to "The Rescue Operation" as well as the third version of "Dorinda Survives", aka "Dorinda Solo Flight", that both use this new theme.

[Chewy 2,372]

And it's here!

 

 

What a great thing it is to discover a John Williams score directly with an expansion done by Matessino! I'm totally in love with what I'm hearing, this man really never fails anything 

[Jay 37,249]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:09 AM, Chewy said:

 

I'm hearing the theme at 0:37 too!

 

You're right! Nice catch!  Added to my list!

 

 

13 minutes ago, Chewy said:

What a great thing it is to discover a John Williams directly with an expansion done by Matessino! I'm totally in love with what I'm hearing, this man really never fails anything 

 

I more or less discovered The Cowboys, Always, and maybe one or 2 others starting with the MM programs and boy am I glad I did, especially in the case of The Cowboys (what a disaster of a release Townson's version was; At least Williams' Always OST makes sense)

[Amer 2,078]

My copy has just took off from Intrada and it should be 2 more weeks before it arrives. And by that time the latest Williams restoration coming from Intrada would have been ordered too! 

[crlbrg 381]

After over one month of waiting, they're finally here...during which time I could have decided which I would listen to first, but nooo!

 

[Jay 37,249]

Hey those look nice next to each other like that.

 

I'd listen to Always first, Far and Away second, personally

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Just keep them in the shrink-wraps and sell them when they're OOP.

[crlbrg 381]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'd listen to Always first, Far and Away second, personally

I'll take your suggestion.

 

And thanks to LLL for just the right amount of bubble wrap to ensure that they arrived in perfect condition!

[Tallguy 3,359]

35 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hey those look nice next to each other like that.

 

I'd listen to Always first, Far and Away second, personally

 

But that's not chronological!

[King Mark 3,624]

I dunno, the alternates are nice on this release, but this is one score where the chronological presentation is kind of lackluster. It's hard to make it to track 12 without dying of boredom

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Try the OST, it's quite good.

[Tallguy 3,359]

1 hour ago, King Mark said:

I dunno, the alternates are nice on this release, but this is one score where the chronological presentation is kind of lackluster. It's hard to make it to track 12 without dying of boredom

 

The only rough stretch is Pete in Heaven. But that was a rough stretch on the OST too. (Imagine it on cassette?!?)

[Bespin 8,472]

I listened to the score program 4 times in a row.

 

It's like being in heaven.

 

I needed this in my life.

 

Many thanks!

 

[Bespin 8,472]

On 6/1/2021 at 3:43 PM, Jay said:

Somebody tell @Gruesome Son of a Bitch !

 

Where is Justin?

[Jay 37,249]

Who?

[Bespin 8,472]

Banned for life?

[Jay 37,249]

Justin? Nope!

[Bespin 8,472]

So where is he???

[Jay 37,249]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mstrox 6,637]

If Facebook is any indication, he’s doing a lot of pointing.

[Bellosh 3,369]

okay you know what, I ordered this as well.

 

i had no interest in it at first (never seen the movie or listened to the score ---- and up until this announcement, probably couldn't pick out the main theme if it was played to me) but i'm sure one day i'll give it a listen and grow to love it.  that's the good thing about having an honest backlog of scores to discover.

 

also......it just feels weird not supporting these expansions.  MM and company are crushing it.