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Always (1989) - 2021 Expanded Edition from La-La Land Records


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On 6/1/2021 at 11:12 PM, Brundlefly said:

It is not lost, the plane just merges much better with the surroundings now, while the Y-trail isn't that obvious any more, but it's still there.

 

On 6/3/2021 at 3:20 AM, TownerFan said:

 

The film had actually two different, but very similar keyarts of the poster (illustrated by the great John Alvin). The US poster doesn't have the truck:

 

The international poster used in UK, France, Italy, and Spain has a different composite and the truck added:

 

 

Yeah, I had the original one-sheet. (I might still have it.) The colors on the poster are lovely. The plane is painted and is recognizably an A-26. The connection between the title and the plane is very clear. The original album ruins this. Well, the CD and cassette covers did anyway.

 

5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I think, I said it before, but Always seemed to me like Ghost version 0.1. Whatever Spielberg wanted to achieve with it was achieved better in Ghost. On the plus side, Always was there first and it had a Williams score. 

 

Yeah. That's why I never liked Ghost. :)

 

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

A Guy Named @JoeinAR was there first.

 

It was. There's a nice Easter egg in Always. In the A Guy Named Joe Dorinda brags "I always come in on three wheels" and since she's flying a tail-dragger airplane she's saying she lands perfectly every time. In Always she has the same line. But since she's flying a tricycle gear plane she's admitting she's a crappy pilot. ("Oh, kinda perverse!" Pete replies.)

 

I haven't been this excited for a new CD since The Rocketeer. I'm not sure there will be much new but it will be interesting and it will sound gorgeous.

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I think that the parts of the film that are similar to Ghost are just one part of what's happening in Always.  I think Spielberg was doing something else entirely that Ghost doesn't touch on at all, but I won't say anymore because it wasn't an observation I came up with on my own, but one I read in the new liner notes.  I think the notes will open people's eyes up to the film and make them appreciate it more - at least that's what happened for me.

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38 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think that the parts of the film that are similar to Ghost are just one part of what's happening in Always.  I think Spielberg was doing something else entirely that Ghost doesn't touch on at all, but I won't say anymore because it wasn't an observation I came up with on my own, but one I read in the new liner notes.  I think the notes will open people's eyes up to the film and make them appreciate it more - at least that's what happened for me.

Looking forward to it.

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12 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I think, I said it before, but Always seemed to me like Ghost version 0.1. Whatever Spielberg wanted to achieve with it was achieved better in Ghost. On the plus side, Always was there first and it had a Williams score. 

Ghost is a fantastic film it's full of humor love excitement and some damn good acting. I cannot say the same for always.

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I really liked John Goodman and Holly Hunter's acting in Always.  It's just that Richard Dreyfus and (... looks up his name) Brad Johnson greatly disappoint next to them

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

I really liked John Goodman and Holly Hunter's acting in Always.  It's just that Richard Dreyfus and (... looks up his name) Brad Johnson greatly disappoint next to them

I like Dreyfus in roles where he doesn't laugh much.  Otherwise, it gets grating quickly.  

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I loved everybody but Brad Johnson. (Including Dreyfus.) Too bad. I mean, that was an opportunity on a silver platter and he just wasn't up to it. I did see him in a direct to video sequel to The Philadelphia Experiment and he wasn't terrible.

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Richard Dreyfus was fantastic in Jaws, Close Encounters, What About Bob.... Something about his performance in Always rubbed me the wrong way. But maybe if I watch it again I'll have a different opinion. 

 

Brad Johnson though... Yea. Squandered opportunity is a good descriptor. 

 

Marg Helgenberger was cute too, even though her character was one-note. 

 

Audrey Hepburn was also kinda weird in this movie. Admittedly, I've only seen her in Breakfast at Tiffany's and this... But she was great in that and weird in this IMO

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Not to beat the dead horse: Who has Spielberg "discovered"? He's obviously great with established talent. (Dreyfus was "established" after American Graffiti.) Do we count Drew Barrymore? Had that "Hanks" fellow done anything of note? This "Cruise" fellow? Um... This, er... "Robert Shaw"?

 

Getting far afield of the music, but who SHOULD have been Ted? How established was Van Johnson in A Guy Named Joe? First name that comes to mind is Tim Robbins. Now I'm thinking of Ted Baker as the kid from either Hudsucker Proxy or Bull Durham and I'm cursing the movie gods. OTOH: Hell, it seems weird to think of it now, but other than the unknown Brad Johnson wasn't this one of Goodman's first big screen roles after his debut on Rosanne?

 

Back to the music: Wait, can this NOT be listened to on Spotify / Amazon / etc? You poor bastards. Buy this! BUY THIS NOW!

 

Apropos of nothing: There is a gorgeous A-26 in museum near my house. I have yet to see a PBY Catalina in person. I HAVE flown IN a B-25 like in A Guy Named Joe.

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7 hours ago, Jay said:

 

I never said "discovered", I said "one of Spielberg's greatest strengths is his eye for casting" which is absolutely true.  Yes Drew Barrymore was great in ET but so was Henry Thomas. And the older kids.  Ditto for Heather O'Rourke in Poltergiest. Jonathan Ke Quan in Indy 2.  All the kids in The Goonies.  Christian Bale in Empire of the Sun.  River Phoenix in Indy 3.  Charlie Korsmo in Hook. Joseph Mazzello and Ariana Richards in Jurassic Park.  Etc. 

 

As for adults, how about John Malkovich in Empire of the Sun, Liam Neeson and Ralph Fiennes in Schindler's List, Vince Vaughn in The Lost World, Matthew McConaughey, Djimon Hounsou and Chiwetel Ejiofor in Amistad, Matt Damon, Vin Diesel, and Giovanni Ribisi in Saving Private Ryan, Amy Adams in Catch Me If You Can, Diego Luna and Zoe Saldana in The Terminal, Daniel Craig in Munich, Tom Hiddleston and Benedict Cumberbatch in War Horse - all cast by Spielberg before they were big stars.

 

OK. That answers my question. So Johnson is kind of an anomaly.

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On 6/12/2021 at 11:13 PM, Jay said:

Richard Dreyfus was fantastic in Jaws, Close Encounters, What About Bob.... Something about his performance in Always rubbed me the wrong way. But maybe if I watch it again I'll have a different opinion. 

 

Brad Johnson though... Yea. Squandered opportunity is a good descriptor. 

 

Marg Helgenberger was cute too, even though her character was one-note. 

 

Audrey Hepburn was also kinda weird in this movie. Admittedly, I've only seen her in Breakfast at Tiffany's and this... But she was great in that and weird in this IMO

FWIW, I think Dreyfuss nailed what he was supposed to do with the role.  I’d give the film another chance.  The arc of Pete’s character is to become selfless and let go of the perceived control he never really had - over himself, his life, his death, etc.

 

I’ve always found it so sadly profound that he takes these awful chances every time he flies, and then after Dorinda tells him that she could understand his flying how he does if he was “doing it to save somebody’s life…anybody’s life”.  And then the scene where he saves Goodman’s character ends with he himself dying.

 

The rest of the film deals with his other bad tendencies - holding on too tight, and his unwillingness to let Dorinda be free to love and give her heart to someone else despite his being gone.  It’s a selfish but very human impulse to hang on — one he finally learns to shed by the time the movie is over.  I guess what I’m saying is…his character was meant to be a bit self-servingly obnoxious.  That was the point.

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Sure, but it doesn't make it enjoyable to watch.  It doesn't have a enough of that Spielberg magic to get you from the start to the payoff

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It's interesting to me how a movie's context can change so much of the film. What I mean is, for example, Terminator 2 is obviously structured assuming that you don't know anything about the film except that you saw the first one. All of the story beats in the first act play on that expectation. Arnold is the Terminator again and there is another wiry guy sent back to stop him. Then the film flips that on it's head and the audience loses their minds. EXCEPT the film was marketed within an inch of its life that Arnold is the GOOD guy this time around. If you saw in 1991 that surprise was most likely not there.

 

Always OTOH clearly knows that you have come to this movie either because you know the film it's based on or you know the plot: Pilot is killed and comes back as a ghost. IIRC they try to kill Pete three times in the beginning of the film. "Oh, he dies here. No, wait... Here. Here?" But I knew nothing about any of that. I knew Spielberg, Dreyfus, airplanes. SOLD! And a lead character like Dreyfus has a certain amount of script immunity so I "knew" he was never in any danger. So when his plane flat out explodes it was actually quite a shock to me.

 

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Sure, but it doesn't make it enjoyable to watch.  It doesn't have a enough of that Spielberg magic to get you from the start to the payoff

 

Hmm. Watching some clips of the film in another thread I remembered how gorgeous I thought (and think) this film is. Dreyfus also made his comeback playing jerks and he built a lot of his later career playing less likable / sympathetic parts. This was one of if not his very last stab at playing a charming quirky leading man. And I loved him in this.

 

I do think this film went against the grain on a lot of Spielbergian expectations. It wasn't as fantastic as an Indiana Jones and it wasn't as important as an Empire of the Sun.

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Wow. It’s a premiere of the  unused ‘End Credits’ The themes weaves in between with variations of ‘Smoke Gets in your Eyes’ song and other themes. I love it.

 

Kinda reminds me of what’s happened with the unused  ‘End Credits’ of Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

 

 

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01 - Intimate Conversations

02 - Premonitions*

03 - Saying Goodbye

04 - Pete in Heaven

05 - The Return

06 - The Old Timer's Shack

07 - Follow Me

08 - Seeing Dorinda

09 - Ted's Heroics and Pete's Aura*

10 -

11 -

12 -

13 -

14 -

15 -

16 - The ? (Film Version)

17 - The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate)**

18 -

19 - The Rescue Operation ()

20 - Among the Clouds ()

?

 

Just going by @crumbs' iso score video titles, descriptions and lengths, this is not a strict chrono program.

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This is one of my favorite tracks of film music in a long while. It's gorgeous. 

 

Williams does more with the song melody than The Platters ever did. 

 

Great choice for the Classic FM preview! 

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1 hour ago, Chewy said:

For those who missed it, I recorded it:

 

Thank you @Chewy!

 

And wow that is a lovely piece with nice arrangements of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes. It almost feels like there are two distinct halves in the end credits, the first with Williams' music book ending one orchestral version of the Smoke Gets In Your Eyes that ends at 3:52 on the above recording and then the second part that opens with the piano rendition of the Smoke Gets In Your Eyes and ends with that lovely James Thatcher horn motif and ethereal  "heaven music".

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Anyone recognize that rendition of the epic Jim Thatcher horn solo? 

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Ahhh that's a nice way to start my morning. Although I have to say I'm not crazy about the first rendition of Smoke and I think it diminishes the impact of the second (which is much sweeter). But by all means, I should get very critical about what's wrong with a 32 year old piece of unused music. :sarcasm:

 

The rest of it was a lovely rendition of the film's themes without being a needle drop. When was the last time before this that a Williams end title had new arrangements of a film's themes? He pretty much stopped after Raiders didn't he? Or do I not listen to the right Williams scores?

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So this end credits suite is very surprising. I've only heard fragments because I want to retain some surprise for the release proper, but it sounds totally different to the partially used verison in the film.

 

Does this mean there's actually 2 versions of the end credits? One with Williams' arrangements of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes and another version with only Williams material? Fascinating!

 

I'm a bit surprised by how many OST tracks Mike has reused for this release. The Return in particular, which begins with the cue for Pete's death, but is placed after Pete In Heaven on this assembly. The alternate album version of Old Timer's Shack in the main program, rather than the film version, being another.

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1 hour ago, ciarlese said:

 

Am I wrong to say that this is not a new recording nor a previously unreleased score? 🧐

 

Ha! I didn't even notice. Yea, that's weird wording! 

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2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

When was the last time before this that a Williams end title had new arrangements of a film's themes? He pretty much stopped after Raiders didn't he? Or do I not listen to the right Williams scores?

 

Just sticking from 77-89: Star Wars, Close Encounters, 1941, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders, ET, Return of the Jedi, Temple of Doom, SpaceCamp, and Witches of Eastwick all had new arrangements of the film's themes written for their end credits. Empire and Jedi obviously reuse some Star Wars end title music, but not enough to make them not count IMO. 

 

Superman is very similar to the Main Title arrangement, though I don't know which was conceived of first. I'd speculate the End Title arrangement came first and later the Main Title was written to be similar to it. 

 

Empire of the Sun is not based on anything in the score (the "Liberation" cue came later and replaced the "Freedom March" cue JW wrote originally). 

 

Last Crusade retreads the Raiders March and the Scherzo film cue, but the grail theme section has new development. 

 

That leaves Jaws 2, The Fury, Dracula, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, The River, The. Accidental Tourist, and Born on the Fourth of July for someone else to describe... 

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56 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Just sticking from 77-89: Star Wars, Close Encounters, 1941, Empire Strikes Back, Raiders, ET, Return of the Jedi, Temple of Doom, SpaceCamp, and Witches of Eastwick all had new arrangements of the film's themes written for their end credits. Empire and Jedi obviously reuse some Star Wars end title music, but not enough to make them not count IMO. 

 

Superman is very similar to the Main Title arrangement, though I don't know which was conceived of first. I'd speculate the End Title arrangement came first and later the Main Title was written to be similar to it. 

 

Empire of the Sun is not based on anything in the score (the "Liberation" cue came later and replaced the "Freedom March" cue JW wrote originally). 

 

Last Crusade retreads the Raiders March and the Scherzo film cue, but the grail theme section has new development. 

 

That leaves Jaws 2, The Fury, Dracula, Heartbeeps, Monsignor, The River, The. Accidental Tourist, and Born on the Fourth of July for someone else to describe... 

Easy enough to describe Jaws 2, with its slightly unusually two part end titles. The second half is easy enough, a fun concert style reworking of the catamaran sailing music (one of my favourite obscure William themes I’d say) but the first half is, I believe, an entirely new fanfare theme that isn’t derived from any other theme in the rest of the score. A nicely triumphant, if slightly OTT way to end, especially compared to the more wistful version of out to sea used as the basis for the original Jaws end credits. I wonder how the original Jaws would have ended if it had a modern, post Star Wars style 5 plus minutes of end credits. Hmmm… 

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Accidental Tourist has a sprightly arrangement of the main theme.

The Phantom Menace and AOTC also have original end credits, they were just reused as concert arrangments as well.

4 hours ago, ciarlese said:

 

Am I wrong to say that this is not a new recording nor a previously unreleased score? 🧐

It is a unreleased cue, which is score, not source music, or a song.

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13 minutes ago, Permanent Waves said:

The Phantom Menace and AOTC also have original end credits, they were just reused as concert arrangments as well.

Yea, but he was asking about end credits before Always, not after Always. 

 

13 minutes ago, Permanent Waves said:

It is a unreleased cue, which is score, not source music, or a song.

 

The point is that it's not a "new recording" - it's a previously unreleased (and unused) recording, and the entire score is not an "unreleased score", this is one previously unreleased cue from a score that did have a release. 

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On 6/19/2021 at 9:29 PM, Holko said:

01 - Intimate Conversations

02 - Premonitions*

03 - Saying Goodbye

04 - Pete in Heaven

05 - The Return

06 - The Old Timer's Shack

07 - Follow Me

08 - Seeing Dorinda

09 - Ted's Heroics and Pete's Aura*

10 -

11 -

12 -

13 -

14 -

15 -

16 - The ? (Film Version)

17 - The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate)**

18 -

19 - The Rescue Operation ()

20 - Among the Clouds ()

?

 

Just going by @crumbs' iso score video titles, descriptions and lengths, this is not a strict chrono program.

 

That listing of The Rescue Operation at track 19 is interesting! The OST track should be track 12, so this might be some type of alternate.

 

Assuming only tracks 2, 9 and 15-21 are non-OST, this is my best guess for the rest of the tracklist, assuming the bonus cues are in chronological order. Guesses in red:

  • 01 - Intimate Conversations (OST track, combines two cues, unclear if chronological) 1:26
  • 02 - Premonitions*  Judging by the artwork, this track is 2+ minutes long. There's only ~33 secs of unreleased music here... maybe Ted Meets Al is included here?) 2:01
  • 03 - Saying Goodbye (OST track)  3:15
  • 04 - Pete in Heaven (OST track)  6:44
  • 05 - The Return (OST track, combines two non-chronological cues) 2:31
  • 06 - The Old Timer's Shack (OST track) 4:55
  • 07 - Follow Me (OST track) 1:18
  • 08 - Seeing Dorinda (OST track) 3:35
  • 09 - Ted's Heroics and Pete's Aura*  Unreleased bus driver and wishbone cues, and maybe Ted Meets Al based on the track duration 3:25
  • 10 - Pete and Dorinda (OST track, combines two versions of same cue) 3:18
  • 11 - Promise to Hap (OST track) 2:30
  • 12 - The Rescue Operation (OST track) 5:15
  • 13 - Among the Clouds (OST track, combines the final two cues of the film, written to overlap. The latter cue was revised with the following track) 8:35
  • 14 - Dorinda Solo Flight (OST track) 3:17
  • 15 - End Credits (Alternate)  Unused version with Williams arrangement of Smoke In Your Eyes? 6:20?
  • 16 - The Death of Pete (Film Version)  Film Version of Pete's death cue 1:11?
  • 17 - The Old Timer's Shack (Alternate)**  Film Version Alternate 4:46
  • 18 - Follow Me   Alternate that leaked in bootleg  1:16
  • 19 - The Rescue Operation   Alternate? I thought the different sections of music in the film were tracked, but maybe there's an alternate cue that went unused 5:15?
  • 20 - Among the Clouds (?)  Unsure what this is -- maybe an alternate version of the cue Among the Clouds?? There isn't enough room for a combo track of Among the Clouds with Dorinda Solo Flight 4:30?
  • 21 - End Credits (Film Version)  The film credits has alternate music to the clip released yesterday 4:11?

Track time estimate = 80:34 (so my estimates are wrong somewhere...)

 

Clearly there's some educated guesswork here, but I'm surprised every OST track has (seemingly) been ported across!

 

If track 16 is the film version of Pete's Death, it's curious that it wasn't placed between tracks 3 & 4 (as it appears in the film). Ditto the film version of Old Timer's Shack, which is relegated to the bonus section. Maybe Williams preferred his album versions of those cues.

 

Not sure where the short Al Meets Ted cue has been placed (possibly integrated with track 9, given the duration).

 

I'm guessing OST Among The Clouds has been placed before OST Dorinda Solo Flight, presenting Williams' two versions of the final cue back-to-back (effectively giving the score two climaxes). I figured one of these (the unused earlier version) would be relegated to the bonus section.

 

Assuming the OST tracks are 1:1 identical to the previous release, that means the two versions of Pete and Dorinda haven't been separated (they crossfade in the OST track), so there won't be a clean ending to the film version or clean opening for the alternate (making a chrono edit impossible). Similar deal with the crossfaded cues in Intimate Conversations and The Return. Bit of a bummer but I guess space constraints were a factor (and it looks like this will be a fully packed CD!)

 

Guess all will be revealed in a few days! Looking forward to the official tracklist and hearing more samples. Can't wait to pick this up!

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4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

That listing of The Rescue Operation at track 19 is interesting! The OST track should be track 12, so this might be some type of alternate.

100%, since the length is in the line below it and there are already alternates listed before it.

 

Never heard the OST but I didn't really feel the strict chrono score as is worked all that well based on your iso videos, so I probably won't be unhappy about some of this playing around and keeping combinations.

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Yeah I'm sure the complete score will work better with combined tracks and a more 'curated' presentation.

 

No issue with combo tracks if it makes for a better listening experience (even if it's non-chronological), but I'm generally not a fan of the way Williams crossfades cues that weren't intended to overlap (ie, the two versions of Pete and Dorinda here, which I think would've been just as effective with a pause between each version).

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Didn't I hear an interview with Matessino for Close Encounters that he's adopted the template that if its an existing track he'll keep the name of the original track, but if it's a new or altered track he'll give it a different name? Mostly for legal purposes but also for us poor saps that still remember (and own!) ALL the versions. Or is Among the Clouds (alternate) a different enough title?

 

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone else notice the catalog number on the spine in the pic?

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4O-77AWQAEm3th?format=jpg&name=large

 

It didn't jump out at me. So why is that significant?

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

20 - Among the Clouds (?)  Unsure what this is -- maybe an alternate version of the cue Among the Clouds?? There isn't enough room for a combo track of Among the Clouds with Dorinda Solo Flight 4:30?


I’ve got a hunch what this might be: I don’t think there was a true alternate cue written, but bizarrely, the entirety of that stunning horn solo was originally written doubled by piano and piccolo (two octaves higher). So, maybe there’s an alternate take with that original instrumentation?

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13 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Didn't I hear an interview with Matessino for Close Encounters that he's adopted the template that if its an existing track he'll keep the name of the original track, but if it's a new or altered track he'll give it a different name? Mostly for legal purposes but also for us poor saps that still remember (and own!) ALL the versions. Or is Among the Clouds (alternate) a different enough title?

 

Yes if the contents are identical to an OST track (even if he rebuilt it from scratch), he keeps the same name.  He doesn't ever use an album track title for different contents.  And yea, adding a parenthetical = new track title.

 

13 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

It didn't jump out at me. So why is that significant?

 

The rest of the 1520s came out in late 2019 / early 2020

 

They are currently in the 1560s

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21 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:


I’ve got a hunch what this might be: I don’t think there was a true alternate cue written, but bizarrely, the entirety of that stunning horn solo was originally written doubled by piano and piccolo (two octaves higher). So, maybe there’s an alternate take with that original instrumentation?

 

Oh wow, that would be quite something! Strikes me as the type of thing they at least tried for a take or two before going with the horn solo.

 

Fingers crossed you're right!

 

23 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Didn't I hear an interview with Matessino for Close Encounters that he's adopted the template that if its an existing track he'll keep the name of the original track, but if it's a new or altered track he'll give it a different name? Mostly for legal purposes but also for us poor saps that still remember (and own!) ALL the versions. Or is Among the Clouds (alternate) a different enough title?

 

I think he discussed it on E.T., where he kept a lot of track titles from the previous expansion despite not being a fan of the track names they used (I think his preference is to use the original cue titles as track names).

 

But yeah, for legal purposes, they have to change the track title if the content of the track itself is altered (even something as mundane as separating cues that were previously overlapped, like several tracks on the TLW expansion).

 

On Among The Clouds specifically, it's a little confusing because it's both a cue title (for the second last cue of the film proper) and an OST track title (which actually combines two different cues into the same track, one of which wasn't used in the film).

 

Hypothetically, if Mike wanted to present just the cue Among the Clouds by itself (without the other cue appended), ironically he wouldn't be able to name that track Among the Clouds due to the existing OST title.

 

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

The rest of the 1520s came out in late 2019 / early 2020

 

They are currently in the 1560s

 

That's interesting! So this release must have been assembled back in 2019 and suffered a pretty hefty delay!

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