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The John Williams Concert Work Listening and Discussion Thread


SteveMc

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On 7/13/2021 at 10:13 PM, SteveMc said:

America, The Dream Goes On (1982)

Part of me had doubts about including this piece in here, since it seems to exist more as a pop-light music fusion occasion piece than as a proper classical concert work.  

 

At any rate, it is a blissfully patriotic piece, a product of the burgeoning Reagan era optimism and neo- Americana (which Williams would be a more formal part of later).  The lyrics, by Alan and Merilyn Bergman are about as far from nuance and cleverness as you can get.  There are some interesting little moments in the orchestration, but overall I am not a big fan of this piece.

 

Here's the original recording, featuring the recently late James Ingram as soloist.  Some live performances with other soloists like John Denver and Dionne Warwick are up on YT.   

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Here is a version with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  Certainly benefits from the more formal approach. 

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The Dionne Warwick recording on youtube might in fact be the world premiere:

 

The song was composed in 1982 but he only recorded in 1984 with James Ingram, making this at least the earliest known performance. Of course there are many other recordings of it, and Williams himself has conducted it with classical trained singers performing.

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Has it ever been performed in concert outside the United States?  I would like to hear it performed live one day as I quite like it.  Nothing wrong with a bit of patriotism.

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Wasn't this piece part of the reason Williams almost quit the Boston Pops? I recall reading that Williams wasn't impreseed by some snarky comments and perhaos giggles by orchestra members while rehearsing the piece. 

 

Edit: Discussed here,

 

But I seem to recall reading about the incident in perhaps one of the Boston Globe articles by Richard Dyer. Are they archived anywhere? I think they used to be.

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18 hours ago, Tom said:

I find the Bergman's lyrics painful. There are not too many Williams's pieces that I dislike, but this is one of them.  

 

Same here, I'm afraid. Hokey patriotism that sounds like it's straight out of a Republican convention. 

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I think this piece is definitely a product of its time, as SteveMc said, it goes back to the early-80's, Reagan-era patriotism, at the height of the Cold War.  The lyrics definitely reflect that.  I also don't think it's very interesting musically; the snare drum ostinato is very pedestrian and doesn't really give it much drive, and the song is basically the same thing over and over.  (America.....America.....America.... America... we get it already!)

 

What exactly was the piece written for?  Was it commissioned for an event?  The Boston Pops July 4th concert maybe?

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I bet it was written for the "I Love Liberty" ABC special, originally broadcast in March 21, 1982, the year the piece was reportedly composed, making the Dionne Warwick performance the actual premiere. 

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8 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Same here, I'm afraid. Hokey patriotism that sounds like it's straight out of a Republican convention. 

Without moving too much into politics here, I think the piece's lyrical problem is not simplistic patriotism.  Something like Lee Greenberg's "God Bless The USA" is an example of a very simple almost surface type patriotism that in its own way works since it has an authentic element, reflecting and amplifying the feelings that ordinary folk can have, regardless of the merit of those feelings.

 

"America, The Dream Goes On" feels like a sort of artificial overwrought attempt at this sort of simple patriotism.  

This stanza in particular I think is suspect.

 There's a song in the dust of a county road
on the wind it comes to call,
and it sings in the farms and the fac'try towns
where you think there'd be no song at all.

 

It feels just a little bit snobbish and elitist to assume that you'd think there would be no song in places like that. You feel confused about what they mean by song too.  Patriotism?  Hope? Happiness?  Why do the lyrics insist we would think these places would not have these kind of basic human feelings?

 

Essentially, the lyrics feel they are more clever than they really are and want you to think they are clever.  Those sort of things seldom work well.

 

 

 

 

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I love the Esplanade Overture. It is my favorite "forgotten" piece of Williams oeuvre  It has the playful quality of Williams scherzo in Jaws II (another piece I adore).  I really like that it plays off a more "serious" theme.  Oh, and that descending trumpet at the end!  Why this doesn't have a professional recording or a signature edition is beyond me--I don't get Williams the man sometimes.  Someone with influence (Lockhart or Mutter or someone) needs to put a bug in Williams ear on this (as well as a long concert suite from AI--but that belongs to a different thread).  

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Olympic Fanfare and Theme (1984)

One the most enduring and recognizable of all of Williams's music for film or concert, The Olympic Fanfare and Theme is a extremely rousing concert overture written to open the 1984 Los Angeles Summer Olympic Games.  Williams sought to capture the human striving inherent in the Olympic spirit, and the powerful moment when the fanfare theme and the lyrical theme come together especially accomplishes this magnificently.  

The piece was premiered in concert with the Boston Pops in June, before it was performed at the event for which it was commissioned in July.  As well, Michael Tilson Thomas conducted it around this time in a concert that was recorded for radio broadcast.  

 

Williams made an official recording of the piece in Los Angeles, which this video purport to have.

Spoiler

 

 

Here is the piece being performed at the opening ceremonies.

Spoiler

 

 

Here is a Boston Pops recording, I believe from the 1987 By Request album.

Spoiler

 

 

In 1996, Williams recorded a new version of the work that was commissioned by NBC to feature Leo Arnaud's Bugler's Dream, which Williams included at the start of the piece, replacing the opening herald fanfare.

Spoiler

 

 

Finally, here is a recent live recording of the piece (slightly modified in orchestration I think) with Dudamel leading the Los Angeles Philharmonic, with the original opening restored. 

Spoiler

 

 

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One of Williams's many gifts is to take a style of music and distill it to its pure essence in a way most (maybe all) composers cannot do--like a perfect essay with no filler, unnecessary words, or bs-ing.  Moreover, I think this piece is the perfect instance of this gift.  Just think how many fanfares had been written, over centuries, prior to this.  Yet, Williams makes it not only fresh, but complete, like this is just what a fanfare is.  That he combines it perfectly with the lyrical theme is just crazy good.  As you can probably tell, I think highly of this piece.  That being said, the Bugler's Dream version--why, oh why?  

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13 hours ago, Tom said:

That being said, the Bugler's Dream version--why, oh why?  


I agree!  I like Bugler’s Dream just fine in it’s own right, but I’ve never liked the sudden shift from that to the Olympic Fanfare.  Very sudden and awkward to my ears.  Between the sudden key change and the difference in style, it really doesn’t work very well.  Give me the original version any day!

14 hours ago, SteveMc said:

Olympic Fanfare and Theme (1984)

 

Finally, here is a recent live recording of the piece (slightly modified in orchestration I think) with Dudamel leading the Los Angeles Philharmonic, with the original opening restored. 

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The problem with this recording is it uses an abridged version of the opening, which I feel robs it of some of its power.

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This was one of the first pieces I heard when I really started to dive deep into John's music, so it holds a special place.

I was quite stunned when I heard it for the first time.  

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The "Esplanade Overture" is cute -- I've always preferred the original version over the "Meeting in Sicily" adaptation; it's a shame it doesn't exist in its original version. The bootleg recording doesn't do it justice. I remember thinking about the piece back in 2014 when I walked around the promenade area in Boston it was written for.

 

I'm impressed that so many people put the "Olympic Fanfare & Theme" so high. I mean, it's a fine piece and I love it, but it's my least favourite of his 5 Olympic pieces. Can't really explain why -- maybe it's a little too "on-the-nose" compared to the other ones (although my favourite, which comes later in your walkthrough, is equally so, but in a different way).

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On 7/18/2021 at 11:47 PM, SteveMc said:

In 1996, Williams recorded a new version of the work that was commissioned by NBC to feature Leo Arnaud's Bugler's Dream, which Williams included at the start of the piece, replacing the opening herald fanfare.

 

That one was prepared for the Barcelona Games broadcast. While I can see that the broadcast company wanted something new (not really new, but you get what I mean) I can't understand why Williams would stick with that version.

Also, the recent abridged version was done to fit some visuals done for a concert in Boston or Tanglewood (same thing with Hymn to the Fallen), and again, it seems people are sticking with that one, even if it robs something from the quite perfect original.

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The Mission (1985)

As a little bonus (I'm not going to include it in the "official" list of concert works), here is The Mission.

This is essentially a Suite for Orchestra in four movements, and I think it would be nice if it were published in its entirety for concert performance. 

It contains some very adroit writing, drawing on Williams's film sound but in a very neatly structured way.  The outer movements have the most identifiable hooks and presence, but the somewhat more complex inner movements are just as interesting to me.

 

EDIT: I'm going to include it in the main post list after all, but not in bold.

 

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Tuba Concerto (1985)

 

Composed  to celebrate the anniversary of the Boston Pops orchestra's founding in 1885, the Concerto for Tuba and Orchestra is perhaps the most filmic of Williams's concerti.  The long-lined development of themes and free flowing structure gives it an airy underscore-like quality that makes it readily listenable, even though I've generally found it to also be not quite as engaging as my taste would like.  Nevertheless, it is a fine showcase for a tubist, something attested to by the large number of recordings that have been made of the work. 

The work has the tuba move through various moods with the orchestra, a certain stately pompousness in the first movement, mystery and song in the second, and joy and motion in the third.   

 

Leonard Slatkin's Detroit Symphony interpretation with Dennis Nulty as soloist is my preferred one, having a bit more motion in it than some others.  

 

Here it is: 

Spoiler

 

This audio of a 1988 live performance with the St. Louis symphony is synced to the sheet music.

Spoiler

 

 

 

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Nulty with the DSO is not one of my favorites. Much more a fan of the Pokorny performance.

 

And if I may, here's a performance very dear to my heart, if for nothing else, because I was actually there and could feel the eletricity and excitement in the air. This and the performance given a couple of days later, where the last concerts I attended before the pandemic shutdown, which in a way, makes those performances even more dear to me.

 

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5 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said:

Nulty with the DSO is not one of my favorites. Much more a fan of the Pokorny performance.

 

And if I may, here's a performance very dear to my heart, if for nothing else, because I was actually there and could feel the eletricity and excitement in the air. This and the performance given a couple of days later, where the last concerts I attended before the pandemic shutdown, which in a way, makes those performances even more dear to me.

 

 

What do you think of the Baadvisk recording?  Williams is quoted as having some appreciation of it.

 

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1 hour ago, SteveMc said:

 

What do you think of the Baadvisk recording?  Williams is quoted as having some appreciation of it.

 


I’m listening to this recording right now… it’s probably my favorite of the ones I’ve heard.  I still need to check out the Detroit recording.  
 

Though to be honest, I prefer this concerto to be played by a bass trombone.  Charles Vernon has recorded it with piano reduction, and former Boston Pops bass trombonist Douglas Yeo performed with John Williams himself back in the day.

 

 

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10 hours ago, SteveMc said:

Composed  to celebrate the anniversary of the Boston Pops orchestra's founding in 1885, the Concerto for Tuba and Orchestra is perhaps the most filmic of Williams's concerti. 

 

Yes, filmic and accessible, I would say. As others have said in the past, it's often reminiscent of Jabba's music. Cute piece, but not one that wows me or moves me emotionally, really.

 

First version I got was a boot in the 90s with Chester Schmitz, for whom it was originally written. Sound was crappy, of course, but it carried me through to the official Marc Easener version that was released in 2002. That's fine, I don't really need other versions (although being a Norwegian, I've obviously checked out the Baadsvik). It's a popular piece to perform and record, which is understandable since a) it carries the popularity of Williams' name and b) there aren't a lot of tuba concerti out there, relatively speaking.

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10 hours ago, SteveMc said:

 

What do you think of the Baadvisk recording?  Williams is quoted as having some appreciation of it.

 

 

That's actually my favorite comercial release. 

As pointed out above, Douglas Yeo was brilliant on the bass trombone version.

 

I don't find this filmic, whatever that means... Surely is tuneful and the woodwind writting is very close to Williams' score to The River.

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13 hours ago, Matt S. said:


I’m listening to this recording right now… it’s probably my favorite of the ones I’ve heard.  I still need to check out the Detroit recording.  
 

Though to be honest, I prefer this concerto to be played by a bass trombone.  Charles Vernon has recorded it with piano reduction, and former Boston Pops bass trombonist Douglas Yeo performed with John Williams himself back in the day.

 

 

I think I prefer that arrangement more as well.  

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Liberty Fanfare (1986)

Composed for the grand centennial celebration of the Statue of Liberty and its concurrent restoration, the Liberty Fanfare is a concert overture somewhat in the Olympic Fanfare mold.  Stirring, patriotic, hummable, a grand distillation of 80s optimism.  It serves its purpose well and has become something of a modern Americana classic.   

 

I enjoy it well enough.

 

Here is Williams conducting the piece during the event for which it was commissioned.

Spoiler

 

 

And here are two Boston Pops recordings, one with JW on the podium, the other with Keith Lockhart.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

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"Liberty Fanfare" is a good piece that is surprisingly adaptable. I say that because there's a version by our own radio orchestra that is slower, but also more elegant somehow (not released, but it was broadcast on radio a few years back).

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Williams doesn't typically aim for full-on, direct solemnity in his celebratory pieces (well, I hope that is not what he was going for with America, the Dream Goes On).  He does here and he sticks the landing quite well.  

 

I suppose the second in line for direct solemnity, yet celebratory, would be Air and Simple Gifts, which is I think is very good, but does not touch upon greatness, while this fanfare does.  

 

Of course Hymn to the Fallen has solemnity but not the celebratory aspect.  Kind of rambling at this point, aren't I?  

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Liberty Fanfare has become a very popular piece for the 4th of July concerts, as well as with wind bands. Actually, the very first recordings wasn't the orchestral one, but the arrangement for band by James Curnow, performed by the Marine Band.

 

 

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Celebration Fanfare (1986)

Two compositions today.  First, a celebratory piece commissioned by the Houston Symphony to mark the sesquicentennial of my adopted home state of Texas.  As noted in the link below, it was part of a larger project of commissions from a slate of major composers to mark the event, and was performed first by the Houston Symphony and then by Williams with the Boston Pops, during which time it was recorded for broadcast.

https://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/concert/celebration-fanfare

AFAIK, that broadcast has not surfaced.  Neither has any audio I know of from a more recent performance here in Houston in 2009, detailed here: 

I wonder why JW did not dust off the piece when he came to town in 2013 with Yo Yo Ma for a concert with the Houston Symphony at Jones Hall.  

 

Anyway, on to the next piece:

A Hymn to New England(1987)

A piece of solemn patriotism that, while written as a piece to accompany a media presentation, is usually ranked as a concert piece.  Apparently, the orchestration, and possibly more, was done by Boston Pops percussionist Pat Hollenbeck.

As quoted in the link below, he claims to have "basically put it together" from original themes by Williams.

 https://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/concert/hymn-to-new-england

 

Here is the piece as conducted by Williams.

 

 

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The "Celebration Fanfare" is a good piece. Rollicking and fun and "film-like", like most of his fanfares at the time, although perhaps not with the striking identity. But certainly good enough to deserve a proper, commercial recording.

 

"Hymn to New England" is more like a march; I've always considered it rather upbeat for a hymn (or what I consider to be a hymn).

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10 hours ago, SteveMc said:

Celebration Fanfare (1986)

Two compositions today.  First, a celebratory piece commissioned by the Houston Symphony to mark the sesquicentennial of my adopted home state of Texas.  As noted in the link below, it was part of a larger project of commissions from a slate of major composers to mark the event, and was performed first by the Houston Symphony and then by Williams with the Boston Pops, during which time it was recorded for broadcast.

https://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/concert/celebration-fanfare

AFAIK, that broadcast has not surfaced.  Neither has any audio I know of from a more recent performance here in Houston in 2009, detailed here: 

I wonder why JW did not dust off the piece when he came to town in 2015 with Yo Yo Ma for a concert with the Houston Symphony at Jones Hall.  

 

This is the one piece I have been trying to find for years. I had the good fortune to hear it during the original concert season in 1986 and then again when played (I think with the Horn Concerto?) several years ago but have never been able to come across a recording...

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

I have not heard the fanfare, though I can say that Williams did not put all that much effort into the name.


You’re probably right. But it’s still a catchy tune!

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https://www.amazon.com/John-Williams-Anthology-Guitar/dp/0769208517

 

Not sure if anyone here has this book but I've had it for years (it's from 1991!) but it has a number of Williams concert works that aren't actually on CD (as far as I know). I only mention it because Celebration Fanfare is one of the unreleased works included. It also includes Winter Games Fanfare for the 1989 World Alpine Ski Championship and a song called Hold You with lyrics by one "Joe Williams" which is apparently from The Fury! Also A Big Beautiful Ball.

 

It has a few other fun entries beyond the usual stuff such as the theme from Land of the Giants (first season I think - bloody difficult to play!) as well as the two other Olympic themes to that point, as well as the Liberty Fanfare. The rarities have much more interesting arrangements than the more famous stuff; the Star Wars main theme is pretty much easy piano, but the concert fanfares etc. are quite hard work. There is a newer version but not sure if it includes those rarities in it.

 

IMG_7856.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Not sure if anyone here has this book but I've had it for years (it's from 1991!) but it has a number of Williams concert works that aren't actually on CD (as far as I know). I only mention it because Celebration Fanfare is one of the unreleased works included. It also includes Winter Games Fanfare for the 1989 World Alpine Ski Championship and a song called Hold You with lyrics by one "Joe Williams". No idea where that comes from! Also A Big Beautiful Ball, not sure where that's from either.

 

"Big Beautiful Ball" is from NOT WITH MY WIFE YOU DON'T. "Hold You" is from THE FURY, and Joe Williams is Joseph Williams, John's son. The "Winter Games Fanfare" was eventually recorded and released with the Denver brass.

 

I once found a copy of that "Anthology" note sheet compilation in an old record store in Oslo, way back in the early 2000s (I was actually traversing record stores with Marco Beltrami's oft-used orchestrator Bill Boston at the time). I didn't pick it up at the time, because I don't read music, but I kinda regret it now.

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Just now, Thor said:

 

"A Big Beautiful Ball" is from NOT WITH MY WIFE YOU DON'T. "Hold You" is from THE FURY, and Joe Williams is Joseph Williams, John's son. The "Winter Games Fanfare" was eventually recorded and released with the Denver brass.

 

I once found a copy of that "Anthology" note sheet compilation in an old record store in Oslo, way back in the early 2000s (I was actually traversing record stores with Marco Beltrami's oft-used orchestrator Bill Boston at the time). I didn't pick it up at the time, because I don't read music, but I kinda regret it now.

Yeah I hit send before doing a quick look and had already updated my original post, but thanks for the info. I was being super lazy... I have now just found Hold You in the bonus tracks on the LLL version of The Fury. Such a random thing to include, especially since it doesn't include any of the actual score. Would never in a million years have put it down as something by JW, it sounds like nothing else he's written.And yeah, I know Joe is his his son... my slightly wry sense of humour clearly doesn't translate into text sometimes.

 

Forgot I had that Denver Brass album. The Winter Games Fanfare is quite fun, but it's one of those pieces that sounds like bits of other, slightly better concert works. Works well with brass (no idea if that's what it was written for).

 

Cool story. I am a pretty decent pianist, albeit don't play much these days, but I got it during my early collecting days along with a load of other film music sheet music books, although many are just a bit too basic. Then again, the more difficult arrangements are madly difficult. There's a Star Wars piano book which has much more taxing arrangements which I got signed by Anthony Daniels after a JW concert (he was happier to meet his fans than JW apparently). Think AD was the compere.

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We're Looking Good (1987)

Rollicking and upbeat occasional overture with a good deal of 1941 in it written for the Special Olympics.  

There's a version with lyrics too that appears lost to time.  

Here's John conducting it.

 

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7 hours ago, Tom said:

A little hokey (which perhaps is why it never become the signature piece of the games), but I love its energy and enthusiasm.  It deserves a proper recording.  

 

It has been recorded and released, but only with bands, not with a full orchestra, AFAIK.

 

When people say JW has written four pieces for the Olympics, they tend to forget this as his fifth. It's a cute little piece, but nothing remarkable. I'd love to hear it with the Bergman lyrics, though -- haven't been able to find it in that version.

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15 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The piece frankly sounds a bit retarded, which in 2021 is unfortunate.

 

That's a rather unfortunate use of adjective, given what the piece is written for.

 

I agree, however, that "We're Lookin' Good" is kind of a cheesy title, but the music itself is imbued with unbridled optimism.

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5 minutes ago, Thor said:

That's a rather unfortunate use of adjective, given what the piece is written for.

 

It was used to make a point. That doesn't mean I look down at the special olympics athletes, nor do I refer to them as retarded.

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