The John Williams Concert Work Listening and Discussion Thread

[Thor 7,493]

Yeah, of course, but the context of that particular adjective felt odd. Why is it "retarded", in your opinion, and what makes it so?

[Holko 9,519]

Because this is what happens when you auto-spew joke attempts daily, constantly, and your internal filter erodes.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

14 minutes ago, Thor said:

Yeah, of course, but the context of that particular adjective felt odd. Why is it "retarded", in your opinion, and what makes it so?

 

It's what I imagine people thought was suitable music for such an event in the 80s. If written today, I suspect it would have been less goofy.

 

12 minutes ago, Holko said:

your internal filter erodes.

 

I guess you know all about that...

[Thor 7,493]

13 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's what I imagine people thought was suitable music for such an event in the 80s. If written today, I suspect it would have been less goofy.

 

Ah, OK, gotcha. Yeah, it would probably have been toned down a bit today, but it was a common feature in the 80s and 90s -- the "they can do it!" type of attitude that sometimes went a little overboard. But if I didn't know about the piece's context, I'd still think it's a fine, optimistic piece in and of itself. Again, nothing remarkable, just neat.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Ah, OK, gotcha. Yeah, it would probably have been toned down a bit today, but it was a common feature in the 80s and 90s -- the "they can do it!" type of attitude that sometimes went a little overboard. But if I didn't know about the piece's context, I'd still think it's a fine, optimistic piece in and of itself. Again, nothing remarkable, just neat.

 

It's an OK piece - although JW's least in the genre - but I find it incredibly cringeworthy in context.

[SteveMc 2,674]

The Olympic Spirit (1988)

 

Williams returns to the theme of the Olympics.  This time around, it was NBC who commissioned the piece, as theme music for their Seoul Olympics coverage.  Thus, the work is not strictly a concert work, but, like The Mission, television broadcast music structured in concert work fashion.  I suppose, however, the connection to the rest of Williams's Olympics overtures, helps make a case for its higher status as a concert piece.  Unlike the Olympic Fanfare and Theme, this piece is more straightforward, a bit less daring and programmatic and more filmic in its treatment of theme and variations.  It does have the essential ingredients of memorable brass motif and stirring long lined melody.  It is joyous and inspiring, if not quite iconic in intent or execution.  I've always liked it a great deal regardless.  

Here is the 1996 recording with The Boston Pops.  

 

[JohnnyD 1,223]

The Maestro named Hymn to New England “Of Grace and Glory”; the piece was listed with the title in one of his concerts a few years ago, though I don’t remember the specific concert and year.

[Thor 7,493]

"The Olympic Spirit" is my favourite of JW's Olympic themes, and in the top 3 of his shorter fanfares and themes. It's VERY film-like, reflecting plenty of 80s sensibilities; could have been pasted into an adventure film easily.

[pete 907]

I remember first hearing The Olympic Spirit on Australian TV in the early-mid 90s - Channel 9 used it as part of their rugby league coverage - Friday Night Football, I think. I began collecting Williams music a few years earlier, and I never knew it was a Williams piece until I got the Summon the Heroes CD. It was quite a surprise when I first pressed 'play' on that track. It's been a favorite of mine ever since, and I'd love to hear it live. There's just something about the long melody that makes me want to compete in the Olympics - or at least do a few push-ups.
 

[TownerFan 4,983]

There are a lovely couple of videos of JW conducting the piece, one with the LA orchestra which performed on the original recording and the other one with the Boston Pops:

 

 

 

FYI, Williams slightly re-orchestrated the piece for the 1996 Sony Classical recording and that is the version that is currently performed live:

 

 

[Tom 4,651]

10 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

The Maestro named Hymn to New England “Of Grace and Glory”; the piece was listed with the title in one of his concerts a few years ago, though I don’t remember the specific concert and year.

I was referring to the name "Celebration Fanfare," but that is cool about the Hymn--I did not know that.  

[SteveMc 2,674]

Fanfare for Michael Dukakis (1988)

Today, two John Williams fanfare/occasional pieces, both relatively obscure and minor works in his concert oeuvre. 

First, the Fanfare for Michael Dukakis, written it appears in a span of three weeks for the 1988 Democratic National Convention, with Williams being connected to Presidential hopeful Dukakis through the candidate's father-in-law Harry Ellis Dickson, a Boston Pops associate conductor.  

It seems the live premiere is the only recording we have of the piece.   

 

 

Fanfare For Ten Year Olds(1988)

Very obscure piece this.  Pretty much all the available information is in this thread:

A recording exists, but has not surfaced to YT.  Some details in the above thread.

Here is a performance video of the work in piano reduction form.

 

[Tom 4,651]

I think the official name is Fanfare for 10 Years Old, as in commemorating an anniversary versus kids, but yes the youtube video has it the other way.  The piano reduction is cool.  I would love to hear the full piece.  

[SteveMc 2,674]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

I think the official name is Fanfare for 10 Years Old, as in commemorating an anniversary versus kids, but yes the youtube video has it the other way.  The piano reduction is cool.  I would love to hear the full piece.  

That would make much, much more sense.  Every listing of JW concert works I've come across online, including Wikipedia, has it as Fanfare For Ten Year Olds, but the details in @Thors thread above would seem to support the anniversary intention.  

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

On 8/4/2021 at 4:35 AM, JohnnyD said:

The Maestro named Hymn to New England “Of Grace and Glory”; the piece was listed with the title in one of his concerts a few years ago, though I don’t remember the specific concert and year.

 

That was at Tanglewood on Parade, Augsut 2, 2016.

[Thor 7,493]

The Dukakis fanfare is fairly bad, but I'll have to attribute some of it to the dreadful performance. I'd love to see it properly performed and recorded. Maybe it will fare better then.

 

"Fanfare for Ten Year Olds" (which is what the boss of the Charleston stage told me it was called, the man who once sent a letter to a back-injured Williams about writing a theme for them) is better, but again, deserves a better recording. The recording he sent me sounds like an outtake from HOME ALONE (especially the synth chimes).

[SteveMc 2,674]

To Lenny! To Lenny! (1988)

or For New York (Variations on Themes By Leonard Bernstein)

Short piece written to celebrate the great Leonard Bernstein's 70th birthday and premiered by Williams and the Boston Symphony at Tanglewood, this composition, which goes by two names, is a brief exploration of some Bernstein tunes in a very John Williams way regarding direction and orchestration.  It is an enjoyable little musical aperitif.

Here it is recorded by Williams himself.

 

[Tom 4,651]

I love when composers use the Variation approach. It is one of the few instances where it feels top-tier composers collaborate with one another.  This little piece feels like an exact amalgamation of both composers at their most joyous.  

 

Do we have any quotes from Bernstein on the piece?  

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

9 hours ago, SteveMc said:

To Lenny! To Lenny! (1988)

or For New York (Variations on Themes By Leonard Bernstein)

Short piece written to celebrate the great Leonard Bernstein's 70th birthday and premiered by Williams and the Boston Symphony at Tanglewood, this composition, which goes by two names, is a brief exploration of some Bernstein tunes in a very John Williams way regarding direction and orchestration.  It is an enjoyable little musical aperitif.

Here it is recorded by Williams himself.

 

 

The premiere was given with Ozawa conducting what was called "A Bernstein Birthday Bouquet", featuring short celebratory pieces by Luciano Berio, John Corigliano, Leon Kirchner, Lukas Foss, Jacob Drukman, Toru Takemitsu and William Schuman, along with the Williams. This little suite was preceded by a short statement of the Times Square theme from On the Town, a motif that is present through most of the pieces, including the Williams.

 

8 hours ago, Tom said:

I love when composers use the Variation approach. It is one of the few instances where it feels top-tier composers collaborate with one another.  This little piece feels like an exact amalgamation of both composers at their most joyous.  

 

Do we have any quotes from Bernstein on the piece?  

 

Besides the On the Town quote, Williams also quotes briefly, and appropriately, the Happy Birthday tune. 

[Tom 4,651]

4 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said:

 

Besides the On the Town quote, Williams also quotes briefly, and appropriately, the Happy Birthday tune. 

I was wondering whether Bernstein commented on Williams' piece.  

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Not to my knowledge.

I know that the Takemitsu bit led Bernstein to conduct some of the Japanese composer's music.

[Thor 7,493]

It's a good exercise piece, but alas not something that ignites my fire like his more "original" compositions.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Winter Games Fanfare (1989)

Rather obscure short occasional overture composed not for the Olympics, but for the 1989 Alpine Ski Championships  in Vail, Colorado.

Has a pretty memorable theme, very JW structure and direction.   

The Denver Brass gives it a go here in what appears to be the original arrangement.

 

 

[Thor 7,493]

Yeah, prior to the Denver Brass recording, I only had the "Winter Games Fanfare" in a shoddy MIDI version from the late 90s. So that was a delightful treat. It's a pretty good piece -- a cousin to his Olympic themes. Of course, the 1989 Alpine championship was dreadful for us ski crazy Norwegians. It was just prior to our "Golden Generation" of the 90s.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

Yeah, prior to the Denver Brass recording, I only had the "Winter Games Fanfare" in a shoddy MIDI version from the late 90s. So that was a delightful treat. It's a pretty good piece -- a cousin to his Olympic themes. Of course, the 1989 Alpine championship was dreadful for us ski crazy Norwegians. It was just prior to our "Golden Generation" of the 90s.

 

Was it a midi of a piano reduction? That might have been my doing 😉

[Thor 7,493]

2 hours ago, Miguel Andrade said:

 

Was it a midi of a piano reduction? That might have been my doing 😉

 

Could be. Same with the Dukakis piece -- also available as a MIDI file for years. They were better than nothing, but only whet my appetite for the real deal.

[80sFan 108]

Fanfare for Michael Dukakis (1988)

Today, two John Williams fanfare/occasional pieces, both relatively obscure and minor works in his concert oeuvre. 

First, the Fanfare for Michael Dukakis, written it appears in a span of three weeks for the 1988 Democratic National Convention, with Williams being connected to Presidential hopeful Dukakis through the candidate's father-in-law Harry Ellis Dickson, a Boston Pops associate conductor.  

It seems the live premiere is the only recording we have of the piece. 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I always liked this cover...

 

[Thor 7,493]

1 hour ago, 80sFan said:

Fanfare for Michael Dukakis (1988)

Today, two John Williams fanfare/occasional pieces, both relatively obscure and minor works in his concert oeuvre. 

First, the Fanfare for Michael Dukakis, written it appears in a span of three weeks for the 1988 Democratic National Convention, with Williams being connected to Presidential hopeful Dukakis through the candidate's father-in-law Harry Ellis Dickson, a Boston Pops associate conductor.  

It seems the live premiere is the only recording we have of the piece. 

 

Ha, speak of the sun! Yes, it's a terrible performance, but the sound quality of the broadcast is also partially to blame. It's not a particularly good piece by JW, but it deserves a better performance than that. It sounds like it's being performed by a high school band that hasn't practiced in a year.

 

Obviously, if it were ever to get a new recording, it would be renamed (just as Williams has renamed a lot of the name-specific pieces when he's revisited  them) to something more general.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

I couldn't find the Dukakis piece on Youtube, but instead stumbled over this impressive/cringeworthy performance of JW's Olympic Fanfare and Theme:

 

 

[Thor 7,493]

44 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I couldn't find the Dukakis piece on Youtube

 

That's because it's not on Youtube. I remember a few years ago, I looked through hours of 1988 Democratic convention footage on Youtube to find the performance there, to no avail. As it turns out, it was on a .org site instead, and then Jeff Eldridge put it out on his own page (which, incidentally, is also .org). Watch with caution!:

 

https://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/concert/fanfare-for-michael-dukakis

 

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

The video was from the C-Span site.

The one on Jeff's website cuts the opening bars. I remember that I had to edit the whole thing from two different videos to get the complete piece.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

55 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

That's because it's not on Youtube. I remember a few years ago, I looked through hours of 1988 Democratic convention footage on Youtube to find the performance there, to no avail. As it turns out, it was on a .org site instead, and then Jeff Eldridge put it out on his own page (which, incidentally, is also .org). Watch with caution!:

 

https://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/concert/fanfare-for-michael-dukakis

 

 

I've seen it before, and I'm pretty sure it was on YouTube.

[Thor 7,493]

Then it must have been put out after we "discovered" it on the C-Span site.

[Nemesis 245]

Great HB rendition!

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

He forgot a few bars.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Celebrate Discovery (1990)

 

Finally back on track now after my move.

This concert overture was written to celebrate Christopher Columbus's "discovery" of America.  It is an example of the precise, measured writing and orchestration characteristic of this era in Williams's stylistic evolution.  There is a definite feel of unity here, it is a fine piece, even if it does not break so much new compositional ground.  Indeed, I rather like the classicist nature of the themes.

 

  

 

[Tom 4,651]

And I thought this would be a premiere of the Oscar Overture...

 

While I love the complexity of pieces like the 84 Olympic piece, there is something very satisfying about one main theme being developed to its fullest (similar to the 88 Olympic theme).  Also, the energic enthusiasm of this is infectious.  I know we are no longer supposed to feel that way about Columbus, but I trust Williams with my feelings more so than others.  

[Thor 7,493]

"Celebrate Discovery" is probably my alltime favourite short concert piece/fanfare by JW, when all is said and done. I remember I blasted it on my stereo many, many years ago, and my mom came in and told me it sounded like something out of a western. I'd never thought about that, but there are definitely rhytms and chord progressions in it that suggest this. Which makes sense -- even though it's meant to be a celebratory piece that salutes a wide timespan, way before the old west even, it also has some of that pioneering spirit in it.

[Matt S. 493]

"Celebrate Discovery" is a fantastic piece that I first heard when the American Journey album came out.  It has a fun theme and a propulsive drive that brings a great energy to the piece.  This one deserves a regular spot in his concert rotations.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Clarinet Concerto (1991)

Written for LA Philharmonic clarinet principal Michele Zukovsky, John Williams's Clarinet Concerto marks what I find a starting point of a rather consistent string of concerti by the composer.  Prior to this, he had written only three in three decades.  From this point onwards Williams would express himself regularly in the medium.

Of all these concerti from what I call the "Reflective" period onwards, the Clarinet Concerto may just be the most obscure.  It has never received a fully proper recording/release to my knowledge.  The release that is available is a live recording of questionable (read: pretty bad) quality.  Zukovsky seems to have exclusive rights to the piece, but on a woodwind board it is noted that the piece's obscurity has less to do with her and more to do with Williams being strongly (though perhaps recently less strongly) unsatisfied with the work and wishing it remain in the shadows, so to speak.  It has not been published in score form either, though some sheets may be out there.  A clarinetist on the aforementioned board claims to have studied it and noted that it is a very difficult piece for the soloist.

 

The work is in three movements and is perhaps one of the more tonal and filmic of Williams's concerti, though still with the modernist bent that characterizes most of them. 

The first movement,  Maestoso or Aria, has the sort of expected JW opening concerto movement structure, with distinct opening, buildup towards a climax, and then cadenza and quiet coda.  The opening is characterized by a measured dissonance, the most modern sounding material in the piece, which soon leads to lyrical thematic material.  This is followed by some lively passages that offer some wonderful interplay between soloist and orchestra.  The climax marks a return of the lyrical material, followed by more of the interplay that dissolves into the engaging cadenza and concluding coda.

 

The second movement Calmo or Elegy  is a strongly structured delicate part that really is quite beautiful, lackluster recording notwithstanding.  

It begins with a nocturnal type episode with touches of mystery and longing.  The second episode is more broadly lyrical, though still with some uncertainty of feeling that comes to the fore in some quicker virtuosic passages   Then, a solo horn arrives and the mood turns nocturnal again, anticipating the Horn Concerto.  Tension builds, and the strings herald a new more dissonant episode.  The piece concludes with a return to the more lyrical mood, this time with a certain urgency.  

 

The third movement, Con Brio or Burlesque is broad fun.  The most filmic movement, it calls to mind the strains of adventure and motion in Williams's action and scherzo writing for his scores.  The tone is often cheeky and the writing for soloist virtuosic.  The orchestra, especially the brass, get a chance to shine as well.  This movement has the potential to be a real crowd pleaser.  It is thematic and full of vibrant interplay.  It sounds a lot like what a lot of folks want John's concert music to sound like.  The rest of the work comes pretty close to that.  

 

I do hope this piece gets out of the shadows.  I think it can quite readily enter the repertoire both as a challenge for soloist and as a drawer of crowds when it is on the program.  

 

Here is a link to purchase in the best (admittedly still quite lacking) quality we seem to have of the piece.  The version on Spotify is unlistenable, imo.  

https://www.amazon.com/Williams-Clarinet-Concerto-Michele-Zukovsky/dp/B004HQTBIK/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=clarinet+concerto+williams&qid=1629524264&sr=8-2

[Thor 7,493]

I've always liked the clarinet concerto, but I feel like I haven't really heard it yet -- since I've only ever had that shoddy-sounding "release". Whatever holds a new recording up, I hope it gets sorted out in my lifetime.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

The piece was performed but a few times, in LA and later at Tanglewood. While the recorded version is credited to the Bohemian Orchestra, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a recording of WGBH broadcast of the Tanglewood performance. 

Titles of the movements on the CD/mp3 release do no match the ones on the Tanglewood program book, by the way. The producer of this poorly (to put it nicely) sounding recording did post on this boards ages ago, when this first surfaced, and was very protective of his release.

There was also a Clarinet and Piano reduction of the final movement available on iTunes.

[SteveMc 2,674]

Aloft...To the Royal Masthead!

The UKs Prince Phillip visited Boston in 1992, and who else to herald the royal arrival but John Williams with a short fanfare that some have noted shares a bit of similarity with material in Jurassic Park.  It is more celebratory and brilliant than stately and reverent.  I like it.

    

 

[Holko 9,519]

Never even heard of this one!

 

I like Celebrate Discovery a lot more than most of the rest of this string of concert overtures. Looking forward to the concerto wave!

[Thor 7,493]

"Fanfare for Prince Phillip", as it was called back then, was one of those unreleased fanfares I futilly tried to find back in the 90s and 2000s. There wasn't even a MIDI reduction, as far as I remember. So the Bay Brass recording was a blessing when it came out. Don't know why, but I've always thought it sounded a bit "oriental", for some reason.

 

I always wondered if it was a piece that a band played as Phillip emerged from his private jet in Boston or something, but -- as we discussed in the piece's dedicated thread -- it was probably played at a Boston Pops/Symphony concert that the late prince attended during his stay.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

"Fanfare for Prince Phillip", as it was called back then, was one of those unreleased fanfares I futilly tried to find back in the 90s and 2000s. There wasn't even a MIDI reduction, as far as I remember. So the Bay Brass recording was a blessing when it came out. Don't know why, but I've always thought it sounded a bit "oriental", for some reason.

 

I always wondered if it was a piece that a band played as Phillip emerged from his private jet in Boston or something, but -- as we discussed in the piece's dedicated thread -- it was probably played at a Boston Pops/Symphony concert that the late prince attended during his stay.

 

It was also one of the three opening fanfares for that year's Tanglewood on Parade.

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

On 8/2/2021 at 3:06 AM, SteveMc said:

We're Looking Good (1987)

Rollicking and upbeat occasional overture with a good deal of 1941 in it written for the Special Olympics.  

There's a version with lyrics too that appears lost to time.  

Here's John conducting it.

 

Having listened to this a couple of times I now have the tune stuck in my head... pretty damn catchy and a nice change in vibe to his other Olympic pieces, a bit more fun rather than heraldic. Shame it's not had a proper recording, I can only assume he didn't care for it enough to stick it either on the Summon the Heroes or Call of the Champions albums. Having said that, it kinda loses a bit of momentum by the end, but still worthy of being committed to disc. Still, nice to have this version even if it's in mono.

[artguy360 1,843]

On 8/1/2021 at 7:06 PM, SteveMc said:

We're Looking Good (1987)

Rollicking and upbeat occasional overture with a good deal of 1941 in it written for the Special Olympics.  

There's a version with lyrics too that appears lost to time.  

Here's John conducting it.

 

I've never heard this piece before. It's interesting to hear a JW piece that has such a strong marching band/band quality to it. That extended drum solo was a lot of fun. 

[Martinland 358]

17 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I've never heard this piece before. It's interesting to hear a JW piece that has such a strong marching band/band quality to it. That extended drum solo was a lot of fun. 

1941? In quite a couple of places and in style...

 

That drum solo was great indeed.

 

[SteveMc 2,674]

Just a quick apology for falling behind schedule here.

 

I'll make a stronger effort to be more consistent starting this evening.