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LOKI - show and score


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We watched episode 5 last night and I have a question

 

When Old Loki was building the city, there was a melody that began playing in the score, it played a bunch of times and was pretty prominent.  I instantly recognized this melody as... something, I couldn't quite place my finger on it.  Does anybody know what I'm talking about?

 

I did watch the end credits to see if an existing composition would be mentioned, but it only mentioned Wonderwall, which I assume played in the bowling alley or maybe?

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Ah!  Is that what it was?  I knew I recognized it I just couldn't place it for some reason

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Well, Wagner's opera cycle is based on the same stuff as Marvel comic books. Nothing more complicated than that. 

 

Karol

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Yeah, the Valkyries are from Norse mythology (hence the Thor character (King) Valkyrie, played by Tessa Thompson in Ragnarok and Endgame).

 

It also feels right contextually for a Norse god making their last stand in battle 

 

78CFDD91-B3AE-49A2-8E3B-077F1F6C361E.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, mstrox said:

It also feels right contextually for a Norse god making their last stand in battle

 

Ah ok

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In the meantime this show apears like quite a lame Loki version of the great "Spiderman: Into the Spider-Verse".

"Loki: Into the Loki-Verse".

 

Nevermind. I must confess, I am not so very much interested in the answer to the question, who is behind all this.

But let's see.

 

Loki as the good guy is really not a very interesting character.

But Owen Wilson's character and performance is really the best part of this show.

 

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I have two theories - a “normie” one and a “wackadoo” one.

 

Normie speaking:  I suspect that the Man in Charge is a Loki, likely extremely similar to our Hero Loki or Sylvie.  Maybe one who got all of the power he ever dreamed of, but has to scheme endlessly to keep it (and ends up as alone as Lady Sif calls Loki in that time loop prison our hero was in).

 

Wackadoo speaking, with little knowledge of the Marvel comics universe and especially not the non-Earthbound portion of it - 

the villain of S1 is the little sentient cartoon clock, working at the behest of some Named Marvel Big Bad I’ve never heard of but who will be meaningful to some, and who will then play a much bigger role in the next phase(s) of the movies or at least Loki S2 if it happens

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27 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I have two theories - a “normie” one and a “wackadoo” one.

 

Normie speaking:  I suspect that the Man in Charge is a Loki, likely extremely similar to our Hero Loki or Sylvie.  Maybe one who got all of the power he ever dreamed of, but has to scheme endlessly to keep it (and ends up as alone as Lady Sif calls Loki in that time loop prison our hero was in).

 

Wackadoo speaking, with little knowledge of the Marvel comics universe and especially not the non-Earthbound portion of it - 

the villain of S1 is the little sentient cartoon clock, working at the behest of some Named Marvel Big Bad I’ve never heard of but who will be meaningful to some, and who will then play a much bigger role in the next phase(s) of the movies or at least Loki S2 if it happens

Or it is Owen Wilson. 😂

 

Karol

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28 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I have two theories - a “normie” one and a “wackadoo” one.

 

Normie speaking:  I suspect that the Man in Charge is a Loki, likely extremely similar to our Hero Loki or Sylvie.  Maybe one who got all of the power he ever dreamed of, but has to scheme endlessly to keep it (and ends up as alone as Lady Sif calls Loki in that time loop prison our hero was in).

 

Wackadoo speaking, with little knowledge of the Marvel comics universe and especially not the non-Earthbound portion of it - 

the villain of S1 is the little sentient cartoon clock, working at the behest of some Named Marvel Big Bad I’ve never heard of but who will be meaningful to some, and who will then play a much bigger role in the next phase(s) of the movies or at least Loki S2 if it happens

I also thought about it being a Loki. But then I thought, MCU Loki got arrested because he was a variant in the true timeline in which he normally dies. So, in the one true timeline protected by the TVA Loki is dead at the end of time.

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So the TVA tells us!  But perhaps that’s a method for Leader Loki to suppress all other Lokis via brainwashed minions 

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

I have two theories - a “normie” one and a “wackadoo” one.

 

Normie speaking:  I suspect that the Man in Charge is a Loki, likely extremely similar to our Hero Loki or Sylvie.  Maybe one who got all of the power he ever dreamed of, but has to scheme endlessly to keep it (and ends up as alone as Lady Sif calls Loki in that time loop prison our hero was in).

 

Wackadoo speaking, with little knowledge of the Marvel comics universe and especially not the non-Earthbound portion of it - 

the villain of S1 is the little sentient cartoon clock, working at the behest of some Named Marvel Big Bad I’ve never heard of but who will be meaningful to some, and who will then play a much bigger role in the next phase(s) of the movies or at least Loki S2 if it happens

I perfectly agree with you.

I would add to your "wackadoo theory" that I suspect the big bad person to be Kang the Conqueror

Spoiler

Ant-Man 3 : La présence de Kang le Conquérant n'est pas une bonne idée

This villain has a really interesting backstory, he's one of the Avengers' big bad guys, and he's usually part a weird story around... time. This makes of him the perfect candidate.

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On 7/8/2021 at 11:31 PM, crocodile said:

Oh you mean Wagner's Ride of the Valkyrie? 

 

Karol

I thought this exact thing the moment it happens.

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Meh. This show is now so up its own arse with its mythology but it does it in neither a very clever or funny way (a la Thor: Ragnarok). And the writing is really just not up to snuff.

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After Agatha was the big bad in Wandavision despite all the hints at Mephisto, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ravonna and Alioth are just red herrings and Kang is still being saved for Ant-Man 3. It seems to me that Marvel is going to play with our expectations of cosmic level threats, while just giving us smaller scale stories instead for now, building their way back up to the huge crossover events in a couple more years.  I think it also makes the most sense thematically for the big bad to be another Loki or some other character we've at least seen before. Doesn't make much sense to introduce a whole new character as the main villain in the final episode.

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The episode 4 lame? I found it quite good, the action sequences did just lack a bit of envy but the rest was pretty good.

Still yeah the episode 5 is the best (so was the 5th from Falcon and the Winter Soldier for the matter a fact)

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And the penultimate episode of WandaVision (IMO).  
 

18 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

After Agatha was the big bad in Wandavision despite all the hints at Mephisto, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ravonna and Alioth are just red herrings and Kang is still being saved for Ant-Man 3. It seems to me that Marvel is going to play with our expectations of cosmic level threats, while just giving us smaller scale stories instead for now, building their way back up to the huge crossover events in a couple more years.  I think it also makes the most sense thematically for the big bad to be another Loki or some other character we've at least seen before. Doesn't make much sense to introduce a whole new character as the main villain in the final episode.

 

Agreed.  Thus far the D+ shows have been about telling character-based stories while moving characters from the end of their last movie to where they need to be at the start of the next - but with no game changing implications (unless you say the introduction of a few characters qualifies).  
 

This timeline’s Loki won’t have a “next” movie (unless you count a potential season 2) so it might not be so tethered by such rules, but I can’t imagine anything huge happening that will impact the True Timeline (unless the big bad turns out to be OUR Loki, having faked his death at the beginning of Endgame - although I think that would be cheap and kinda erase his character trajectory from Ragnarok and Endgame.

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I have to say that after 5 episodes I'm still waiting for the show to get going. Sadly, it doesn't seem to convince me one bit. I can completely get a Doctor Who premise of this but it seems really dull and uninspired for whatever reason. I pay more attention to numerous, sometimes obscure, easter eggs (like the hilarious Thanos helicopter reference) but the main story feels just stale. I sort of watch it out of obligation almost in case it leads to something more interesting elsewhere in the MCU. WandaVision, for all its shortcomings, was still the best series of the lot. Even if you were disappointed with the plot and resolution it still works really well as a character piece. It had a heart and something to say about its characters. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier had interesting conflicts and ideas that made for an interesting middle segment but not as good beginning and end. Interesting ideas and questions, not terribly clever answers, So far it's a mixed bag.

 

Karol

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3 hours ago, mstrox said:

I can’t imagine anything huge happening that will impact the True Timeline


Well I gotta disagree with you there. It’s seemed pretty clear to me from episode 1 that this show will end with the downfall and or reorganization of the TVA and the introduction of the multiverse for use in the upcoming Doctor Strange 2 and Spider-Man 3.

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I heard people theorize the same thing with WandaVision.  I’ll believe it when I see it (which, hey, maybe it’s in four days!)

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

I heard people theorize the same thing with WandaVision.  I’ll believe it when I see it (which, hey, maybe it’s in four days!)

 

Well sure, but on Loki the TVA orientation videos explicitly warn that without the Time Keepers, the time stream would inevitably split back into a multiverse leading to another potential multiverse war and to "madness." That wording was definitely meant to mirror the title of the Doctor Strange, "The Multiverse of Madness," though admittedly, it could have just been a red herring.

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The timekeepers themselves were a red herring, and I suspect the purpose of TVA and all of its brainwashed minions will not be as stated, personally.

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On 7/8/2021 at 12:29 PM, mstrox said:

Normie speaking:  I suspect that the Man in Charge is a Loki


Yeah the TVA mastermind being a Loki variant seems the most obvious potential twist.  We’ll see if they go that obvious (which doesn’t mean it wouldnt be cool!).

 

The Loki that actually succeeded in taking over the universe 

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Big spoilers for Loki Finale:

 

Spoiler

I'm so happy that it's Kang and Jonathan Majors is fantastic. This version of Kang was kinda crazy, so can't wait to get a full on evil Kang!!! Multiverse has officially begun. I'm very excited. And Season 2 has been officially announced!!

 

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Thought this was ok as a finale and pretty good as a setup for what’s to come.

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Best final so far for a Marvel serie.

Big spoiler ahead:

Spoiler

So glad it ends up to be Kang, I wouldn't have suffer another Loki

The actor totally convince me. Quiet impatient to see what he's able to do as an "Evil" Kang

The music is still good, a bit less than the one from Episode 5 though

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Haven't seen episode 6 yet, but I realized that I hadn't written about 5!

 

Loki 1x05 Journey into Mystery

 

Finally! The curse of the odd-numbered episodes being bad and the even-numbered episodes being good is broken, as this is a good episode! Granted, it's not as good as 2 or 4, but it's so much better than 1 and 3 it doesn't even compare.

 

It was a lot of fun having Loki interact with a bunch of alternate timeline versions of himself, especially the kookiness of one of them being an alligator and all the backstabbing between them that eventually occurs.  Richard E Grant makes any project better and he was really cool as a classic Loki in a really goofy yellow costume.

 

The only real negative I can say about the episode is once again the cheap production design;  They're supposed to be at the "end of the timelines" or whatever, the "void", but all that was really there was earth stuff.  Golden Gate Bridge, earth cars, earth bowling alley, etc etc.  Where's the creativity?  Also, the monster that was eating everything was also boring (and didn't make a lot of sense).  It was just like the smoke monster from Lost kinda.  It should have been more menacing!

 

We weren't surprised that old Loki sacrificed himself to let Loki and Sylvie do their thing and enchant the bad guy and find that hidden city or whatever to head into, but it was still a well done scene!

 

It was also nice to see Sylvie interact with Renslayer a bit before joining Loki, and Mobius being alive and helping them too.  I'm frankly more curious to see what kind of an ending he gets tonight than I am to see what happens to Loki and Sylvie!

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Loki 1x06 For All Time. Always.

 

I liked it!  Overall, an enjoyable episode, which makes the whole season, overall, pretty good.

 

This episode features the same problems episodes 1 and 3 did - Looooooooooong stretches to expositional dialogue with nothing interesting done on a directing front to spruce it up ; Characters just sit down and talk, and talk, and talk, and the camera just captures this perfunctorily.

 

But despite this, the episode as a whole is pretty nifty and leads to some interesting thoughts about the past and future of the MCU.  Sure, it's a bit strange to spend 23 films slowing revealing, then building up, then finally defeating Thanos, only to have the next big bad introduced when literally one 1 film exists in the next overall mega-story, but let's have faith in Feige and see what he's up to.

 

I feel in the end both Loki and Sylvie were so barely developed, I hope they do much better character development for them in season 2.  Another underdeveloped character is Ravonna Renslayer, who sort of drifted out of importance as the season went on.  I wonder what they plan to do to make her relevant next season.

 

Looking forward to it!

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Episode 6 was a pretty good season finale and a great set-up for the next stories in the MCU. I'm way more interested in what's going to happen to the reality and the multiverse than with whatever shady organization the lady from Seinfeld works for. 

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Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. Is this something to do with the score or something? 

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I had a bit of deja vu watching the finale... 

 

tenor (9).gif

 

Same with this example, perhaps interesting in terms of larger mythology but completely barren and uninspired in execution. 

 

Karol

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9 hours ago, crocodile said:

I had a bit of deja vu watching the finale... 

 

tenor (9).gif

 

Same with this example, perhaps interesting in terms of larger mythology but completely barren and uninspired in execution. 

 

Karol

 

Haha. I was screaming the same thing through much of the episode.

 

Jonathan Majors made the episode somewhat entertaining, but for the most part, the stakes felt empty. And boy, was the episode meandering around...with all those push ins and pull outs, I was expecting bigger reveals.

 

Ultimately, Wandavision had the worse finale, but was the stronger show.

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I hope they get a much better director for season 2.  Or do the smarter thing and use a variety of directors instead of using the same director for every episode

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