John Williams & Berliner Philharmoniker 14th/15th/16th Oct 2021

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

It was the only one worth buying as far as I'm concerned.

 

Because it's complete?

[bollemanneke 2,937]

Yes.

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

Chronological as well?

[bollemanneke 2,937]

Yes, no crossfades either.

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

Crossfades? Do you mean combinations of different takes?

[TownerFan 4,976]

My own 2 cents:

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2021/10/19/john-williams-in-berlin/

[heritage 73]

I agree, the very best Moment of the evening was the Elegy with Bruno Delepelaire.

[bollemanneke 2,937]

I loved your Berlin piece, but stopped reading the Vienna one when the proper concert review started. I can't wait for more podcast episodes!

[MaxTheHouseelf 297]

1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

My own 2 cents:

 

https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2021/10/19/john-williams-in-berlin/

Love it, very well written!

[Michael G. 384]

I guess I got a taste for it Today for the second time in the Philharmonie to Daniel Barenboim (!) with Robert Schumann. And this time directly at the podium. 

[E-Wan 56]

Some info about the longest standing ovations:

 

The Longest Applause Ever

 

6 Longest Standing Ovations Ever: Remarkable Moments

[crumbs 12,973]

8 hours ago, heritage said:

I agree, the very best Moment of the evening was the Elegy with Bruno Delepelaire.

 

What stunning playing that was -- and to think he's so young! Made me an instant fan.

 

At the end of the piece, I noticed Williams stood down and gestured Bruno to stand on the podium, but he refused (presumably out of modesty, or not wanting to place himself above the Maestro).

 

The future is in safe hands.

[BB-8 1,950]

9 hours ago, E-Wan said:

Some info about the longest standing ovations:

 

The Longest Applause Ever

 

6 Longest Standing Ovations Ever: Remarkable Moments

So let's aim for 80+ minutes at La Scala next year.

[victorrt 21]

10 hours ago, E-Wan said:

Some info about the longest standing ovations:

 

The Longest Applause Ever

 

6 Longest Standing Ovations Ever: Remarkable Moments

 

Well some of the applauses listed there were about 20 minutes, so last Saturday's one may be among the longest ever too! It was only 5 minutes less 

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

They could have done more.

[Once 551]

On 19/10/2021 at 11:34 AM, Luke Skywalker said:

Rewatching saturday's final ovation (I can't believe I appear in the recording!) I really think that Williams should have entered the stage one last time (no encore, of course), specially after the clapping beat tempo changed (i got goosebumps rewatching it). And because he had not left the building yet, and as it seems it was an abnormally long ovation...

If everyone had stayed at their seats I might've agreed, but the way people were flocking towards the stage exit made it seem like they were hoping for a personal encounter of some sort.

Anyway, personally I felt the ovation was mostly a way of showing how much love and appreciation we felt for the evening and less about seeing him on stage again.

[BB-8 1,950]

Berlin, October 16 2021

 

Berlin, October 15 2021

 

Berlin, October 15 2021

 

Berlin, October 14 2021

[Pauling 17]

 

 

Para todo aquel que esté impaciente (como yo ), he diseñado esta funda por si queréis usarla. También tengo las pistas cortadas. Si alguien los quiere, pídamelos.

[Locrius 97]

 

Someone on YT posted the Throne Room recording from Friday night... Is it just me, or is the first trumpet's note leading into the credits (4:30 in this video) late? Pretty sure he should be in sync on that note with the strings (and others), but he enters later than them.

 

I noticed the same thing during the Saturday Digital Concert Hall performance, which you can hear in the MP3 that is available. In the piece, there's a big slow-down leading up to the credits, and I'm pretty sure it should be an eighth-note pickup... But he plays more like a sixteenth-note instead. It doesn't sound that way in ANY other recording (to the best of my knowledge).

 

Is this simply a mistake that persisted throughout the week that Williams didn't notice, or did Williams give him the go-ahead to place the note later than everybody else? It just sounds a bit off...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love his playing overall. But this note just stood out to me, and it's a bit frustrating since everything else is amazing.

[crumbs 12,973]

3 hours ago, Locrius said:

Is this simply a mistake that persisted throughout the week that Williams didn't notice, or did Williams give him the go-ahead to place the note later than everybody else? It just sounds a bit off...

 

I interpreted that as a deliberate creative decision, not a mistake.

 

Loved the tension of holding that note before blasting into the main theme -- very musically satisfying to my ears!

[Locrius 97]

It does sound kind of cool, the more that I listen to it. But I just thought it was a case of the trumpet player not being aware of where his note fits in with everyone else, and not following Williams' eighth-note gesture on the upbeat. I hope it was intentional, but I got a bit of an uncertain vibe from the trumpet player on that note in the Saturday recording.

[crumbs 12,973]

I'd have to rewatch the recording but I would've thought he was following Williams' lead and waiting for his cue, especially if it was performed the same at all 3 concerts. 

[Pauling 17]

4 hours ago, Locrius said:

 

Alguien en YouTube publicó la grabación de Throne Room del viernes por la noche ... ¿Soy solo yo, o es la primera nota de la trompeta que lleva a los créditos (4:30 en este video) tarde? Estoy bastante seguro de que debería estar sincronizado en esa nota con las cuerdas (y otras), pero entra más tarde que ellas.

 

Lo mismo noté durante la presentación del sábado en el Digital Concert Hall, que se puede escuchar en el MP3 que está disponible. En la pieza, hay una gran desaceleración antes de los créditos, y estoy bastante seguro de que debería ser una pastilla de corchea ... Pero en su lugar, toca más como una semicorchea. No suena así en NINGUNA otra grabación (según mi leal saber y entender).

 

¿Es esto simplemente un error que persistió durante toda la semana y que Williams no notó, o Williams le dio el visto bueno para colocar la nota más tarde que todos los demás? Suena un poco raro ...

 

No me malinterpretes, me encanta su forma de tocar en general. Pero esta nota me llamó la atención y es un poco frustrante, ya que todo lo demás es increíble.

 

I recorded the piece on Thursday, so you can compare.

 

 

[Locrius 97]

Aw man. I've rewatched the Friday video several times and figured out what happened. Since there's a big slow-down in the bar before the credits, Williams subdivides the last beat of the measure (beat 4) as two eighth-notes. For reference, a normal conducting pattern in a 4-beat measure is down (1), in (2), out (3), up (4).

 

However, since Williams wants to split beat 4 into two eighth notes, he actually beats beat 4 down (and kind of low), and then for the upbeat of beat 4 (so, the eighth-note before the credits, aka the second half of beat 4), he beats up. Everyone else seems to catch what Williams is doing. But if the trumpet player for some reason isn't able to see Williams kind of gently beating beat 4 down low, then when he sees Williams beat upwards he thinks "Oh, that's beat 4" and plays his pickup note after that.

 

...When actually, Williams' upstroke is the "and" of beat 4, the second half of the beat. That's why the trumpet player's note is so short; he thinks Williams' upstroke is the entire beat 4 (rather than the latter half of beat 4 which it actually is), so he plays his eighth-note pickup to the credits twice as short as it should be. He can plainly tell where Williams is about to put his downbeat for the start of the credits, but since he mistakenly thinks beat 4 is so short (when actually, it's so long that Williams subdivides it!), he plays his pickup note short. Since he doesn't notice Williams' downward beat 4, he probably thinks beat 3 is actually the one being super-stretched (almost like a mini fermata). It's just a fundamental misunderstanding.

 

In other words, the guy doesn't seem to be catching Williams' actual beat 4. And since beat 4 is usually conducted as an upstroke - not down - the trumpet player thinks he's seeing beat 4 being conducted, when actually he's seeing the second half of beat 4 being conducted. Sorry if this is confusing; I hope someone else on the forum who is musically-literate understands the point I'm trying to make.

 

Go see for yourself in the video; can anyone else confirm they're seeing what I'm seeing? It's a bummer. The thing is, as a musician (and a brass player), I can see why the trumpet player would think the way he did. The issue could have been avoided if Williams conducted beat 4 as a partial upstroke (which would have made everyone plainly aware of where beat 4 was), and then re-beat up in the air to signal the second half of the beat. So basically, conduct beat 4 in the normal direction (upwards), but do two gestures upwards to subdivide the beat, so everybody knows what is what.

 

TLDR: Normally beat 4 is conducted as an upstroke, but Williams conducted beat 4 as a downstroke so he could do the second half of beat 4 as an upstroke. The trumpet player mistakenly thought the upstroke Williams did for the second half of beat 4, was actually the beginning of beat 4. That's why the trumpet player's last note before the credits is so late and short.

 

EDIT: Yep, he played it correctly on Thursday night; listen to how his note is longer and lines up with the rest of the orchestra. So, I'm 99% sure that's what happened. The other times, the guy got confused by what Williams was doing for beat 4 of that measure, and you can hear he sounds a little uncertain as to the placement of his note. Too bad; hopefully Thursday gets used for that spot in the commercial recording, but I won't hold my breath.

 

@Sibelius6, thoughts?

[Gurkensalat 320]

So finally we can start our collection of Berlin flubs!

[BB-8 1,950]

Be careful with publishing such "home-made" recordings! I think some people got into trouble with copy right issues after releasing similar footage from Vienna.

35 minutes ago, Gurkensalat said:

So finally we can start our collection of Berlin flubs!

1) 14.10.2021: horn section in Jurassic Park

2) 16.10.2021: timpani in Jurassic Park

3) 16.10.2021: 1 horn played with bell down in finale of Olympic Fanfare

...

[Pauling 17]

42 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Be careful with publishing such "home-made" recordings! I think some people got into trouble with copy right issues after releasing similar footage from Vienna.

1) 14.10.2021: horn section in Jurassic Park

2) 16.10.2021: timpani in Jurassic Park

3) 16.10.2021: 1 horn played with bell down in finale of Olympic Fanfare

...

4) 14.10.2021: timpani in E.T. (final)

[GerateWohl 2,871]

I think, at least on Friday there were some flubs in Nimbus 2000. But actually, I just enjoyed the show and did not take notes. So, no details. Sorry.

 

But in the end that is for me the difference between live performance and recording. There are some few flubs? I don't care.

 

If there are flubs on a recording, I do care. With the time after frequent listening the flub becomes for me part of the arrangement and I get irritated when I hear another recording without the flub. That's not good.

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

If there are flubs on a recording, I do care. With the time after frequent listening the flub becomes for me part of the arrangement and I get irritated when I hear another recording without the flub. That's not good.

 

Let's call it a variation.

[Luke Skywalker 1,511]

or alternates…

[GerateWohl 2,871]

Interpretation

[Marian Schedenig 6,522]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

If there are flubs on a recording, I do care.

 

Also not an uncommon thing at all, especially with soundtrack recordings.

[Chewy 1,978]

Great picture!

 

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

35 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Also not an uncommon thing at all, especially with soundtrack recordings.

 

Not in JW's soundtrack recordings, though...

[BB-8 1,950]

Away with flubs!

 

I just love the ritardandi in Harry's Woderous World and Throne Room!

[Pauling 17]

23 minutes ago, Chewy said:

¡Gran foto!

 

 

Hey! You got it in better resolution! Now I can make the cover bigger. Thanks!

[Hugo 25]

2 hours ago, Chewy said:

Great picture!

you can say that!! a beautiful photo, plus me and another member of the community are right there framed next to the Maestro. I'll frame it at home!

[Pauling 17]

34 minutes ago, Hugo said:

¡¡puedes decir eso!! una hermosa foto, además de que yo y otro miembro de la comunidad estamos allí enmarcados junto al Maestro. ¡Lo enmarcaré en casa!

Lucky man...

[Thor 5,979]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

Great picture!

 

 

If I want to use this for my review, who do I credit? From where did you get it?

[GerateWohl 2,871]

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

If I want to use this for my review, who do I credit? From where did you get it?

Right click. copy link: https://images.digitalconcerthall.com/cms/thumbnails/3840x2160/images/...

[Thor 5,979]

Just now, GerateWohl said:

Right click. copy link: https://images.digitalconcerthall.com/cms/thumbnails/3840x2160/images/...

 

Says "Not found".

[GerateWohl 2,871]

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Says "Not found".

Not right click on my link. On the picture. I just pasted here the beginning of the link, because if I put in the complete link it automatically enters the picture. But you can take the link from the picture by richt click on the image and check for the link.

[Ricard 2,025]

12 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

If I want to use this for my review, who do I credit? From where did you get it?

 

© Stephan Rabold

 

He works for the Berliner Philharmoniker.

[Thor 5,979]

OK, cheers, thanks!

[Thor 5,979]

And so, here's my review as well, for anyone interested:

 

http://celluloidtunes.no/john-williams-the-berliner-philharmoniker/

[BB-8 1,950]

12 minutes ago, Thor said:

And so, here's my review as well, for anyone interested:

 

http://celluloidtunes.no/john-williams-the-berliner-philharmoniker/

Well observed and well written - thank you!

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

 

16 minutes ago, Thor said:

And so, here's my review as well, for anyone interested:

 

http://celluloidtunes.no/john-williams-the-berliner-philharmoniker/

 

There's a new Throne Room arrangement?

[Thor 5,979]

11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

 

There's a new Throne Room arrangement?

 

Could be older than I think, but when did he start doing the version that "restarts"? Wasn't that in recent years?

[Archive Collection 113]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Could be older than I think, but when did he start doing the version that "restarts" the opening at least once? Wasn't that in recent years?

It's been like that for a while, at least since the Gerhardt re-recording was done in December 1977.

[Thor 5,979]

OK, cool. I'll remove the 'new' part.