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John Williams & Berliner Philharmoniker 14th/15th/16th Oct 2021


MaxTheHouseelf

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4 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

And I cracked and asked DG if they would keep the crude edits in JW's speeches from the DCH.

 

I don't understand why they tampered with these in the first place. Totally needless meddling.

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I understand some of you would’ve liked to hear some of the more famous soloists, but still.

 

Imagine that when some of these academists get approached to play in the orchestra, they stop calling it the Berlin Phil. That makes no sense at all – they are playing in the Berlin Phil from that moment on. And you’re listening to the Berlin Phil!

 

Should they rename the orchestra also everytime that an older generation retires? This is not how an orchestra works.

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1 hour ago, Fabulin said:

only de iure


But what exactly is the problem here? The fact you would’ve liked to hear these players or the assumed snobbery that is underneath it?

 

Whatever your ‘de facto’ Berlin Phil is, I think what really matters is that the institute itself invited Williams. The orchestra can take on different forms.

 

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Fact is, that the woodwind section at the JW concert in Berlin has nothing to do with the original BP. You can twist und turn it as you want. 

 

I have seen many classic orchestra. But that a orchestra has changed a whole section with players from other orchestras and Academy players i have never seen....

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28 minutes ago, heritage said:

Fact is, that the woodwind section at the JW concert in Berlin has nothing to do with the original BP. You can twist und turn it as you want. 

 

I have seen many classic orchestra. But that a orchestra has changed a whole section with players from other orchestras and Academy players i have never seen....

 

So your problem is the alleged snobbery towards JW, I suppose? Or the quality of the orchestra?

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The woodwind section is undergoing quite a transformation. Some players are rather occupied with themselves. We just have to accept that they are busy and can't play on every occasion.

 

Albrecht Mayer | News | Gute-Laune-Rondo – Albrecht Mayer spielt Mozart

Ist möglicherweise ein Bild von 1 Person und Text „We are excited to announce the new representation of the conductor Andreas Ottensamer“

2020%20Warner%20Airlines%20Desplats.jpg

 

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Remco, yes you have understand. The quality of the BP is much more better with their star players. What do you think why they are their star players ? Because they are better than other players or not ? The BP is word famous because of exactly these players. And not because of their young academy players or players from other orchestras...

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Ohh the player for which the BP is so famous are snobs. Aha...You can also tell yourself a lot. The fact is, the BP sound much better with their star players as with academy members und members from others orchestras....

 

I think here write people who have never heard the BP in their best Formation. 

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A lot of live orchestras. OK. But it seems nobody has heard the BP in the original Formation. But all claim the BP can not sound better although they were never heard. That is nonsense. They speak about things they did not know.  Between top class and world class is a small way. But it is a difference.

 

 

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Did you guys notice the young oboe player who played in the Vienna Philharmonic before (also on the Blueray)? It was his first week with the BPO. Quite a debut. He performed his solos in Nimbus 2000 very well.

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I was not in Vienna. So i can not say who plays for them.

I have another opinion. I have heard a difference in sound. When they play classical music, it sounds different to the JW concert. It has much more perfection and a warmer sound.

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47 minutes ago, heritage said:

A lot of live orchestras. OK. But it seems nobody has heard the BP in the original Formation. But all claim the BP can not sound better although they were never heard. That is nonsense. They speak about things they did not know.  Between top class and world class is a small way. But it is a difference.

 

 

 

I have heard them in Amsterdam. But whatever.

 

When the Nimbus 2000 recording comes out, maybe you'd like to give a critique on what exactly is sub-par about it.

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Steve, I hope you know that studio recordings und live performances are a different thing.

And a live performance on CD or LP is also a different thing to a real live performance.  They press never the real live performance on CD or LP. They always operate the tone control...

 

But for the concert we were lucky people. Now the US Government has made a travel warning for germany. So i think JW would not travel to germany at this time. That was a good planing by the BP :)

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On 21/11/2021 at 9:32 PM, crumbs said:

 

I think you're mixing me up with someone there, I made no comment about Maxine or the LSO.

 

It's also possible there might have been COVID complications, just speculating.

Ugh, I was multi quoting and replied to the wrong person on that, lol :)

11 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I have heard the 'proper' BP and still don't hear a difference. But that doesn't matter to me, really. The performances I heard were above and beyond anything I could have dreamed of. The BP played John Williams. Let some players be snobbish about him, if that even was the case. The concert was a trascendental experience. Case closed for me. HOw many regular players played in Vienna?

Oh 100%, as I said, Bravo, it was a great concert. I was just saying for me I really wanted to hear the actual players play under him and was personally disappointed in not seeing them and wondered if they were snubbing him, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth about them. But I never said anything about the performance being bad It was spectacular!

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Oh i think the BP Stars habe no desire to JW. They play only for Petrenko, Blomstedt, Muti, Gergiev etc. Or in other words for the real Superstar Conductors :mrgreen:

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The doubt is allowed.

Although I usually prefer to think that when you think that something is so easy that it doesn't deserve your attention, it usually means that you're not sure about succeeding it otherwise while dodging it?

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2 hours ago, Leitmotif said:

Snobbery does not tolerate contemporary and other genres music.

 

And there is historical evidence for snobbery, i.e. VPO and BPO successfully avoiding to perform any kind of film music for decades - while Strauß and Lincke were taken seriously.

 

Luckily, times have changed.

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1 hour ago, heritage said:

It sounds like all that want not play JW are snobbery. Thats complete bullshit. Sorry..

It is not a bullshit, it is an existing phenomenon, and it is generally, not about JW. 
JW, Justin Bieber... whatever...
Enough to read critiques from the "high culture" or comments on BP’s facebook page.
It is pop music, to play it is below rank.

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45 minutes ago, heritage said:

But time have long changed. We are not in the Karajan etc. era.

 

I wonder what (if anything) Karajan's thoughts about film music were, or would be today when it's more common to have concert versions available. After all, it was him who introduced mainland Europe to The Planets.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure what you're getting at in this discussion. First you complain about the leading BPO players supposedly refusing to play JW, and then you say it can't be snobbery. In any case, how about another reason (I'm just speculating): Perhaps the younger players were just more eager to be part of these concerts?

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3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

So a complete waste of time.

Like with Vienna, not a single second "wasted" on atmospheric scenes, e.g. JW's first entry, sequences from rehearsals, some shots of Berlin Phil during these nice autumnal days. There are so many possibilities with drones etc.

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