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A.I. Artificial Intelligence (2001) - 2021 20th Anniversary Edition (reissue of 2015 3CD set) from La-La Land Records


Chewy
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The previous batch was 3000 copies, this is 2000. The mechanical limit or whatever hasn't been reached, no need for program reconfigurations. I don't think there's anything else to include anyway, unless JW and Mike really grew to love the 1 or 2 more Joseph Williams pieces and wanted to chuck them at the end of discs 1 and 2.

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1 minute ago, Bellosh said:

I missed out on A.I. so this is basically a LLL Black Friday for me! 

 

Yes it is!  And huge props to LLL for having both JW releases on the same day to help people save on shipping costs.

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The 2015 edition of A.I. was not missing any of John Williams' score cues, nope!

 

 

It did not include 4 source cues recorded specifically for the film, though none of them were written by John Williams.

 

First up is the orchestral backing behind "I Only Have Eyes For You", heard from 2:00-end in this clip

 

 

Next up is "Rouge City Jazz" by Joseph Williams, heard in this clip

 

 

Third up is "Rouge City Rock" by Joseph Williams, heard from 1:02-end of this clip

 

 

And finally is "Joe's Helicopter Cue" by Joseph Williams, which is really just "Rouge City Jazz" with the sax lead removed, heard from 0:00-0:45 or so in this clip

 

 

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The Expanded Archival layout is damn near perfect for an expansion. The third disc is highly listenable. I am very appreciative of alternates being enjoyable to listen to as their own program. Also separated onto their own disc. Like I said, damn near perfect.

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1 hour ago, Chewy said:

This should be a straight reissue right? With no more and no less content than the 2015 edition?

Maybe they went back to the first gen analogue tapes. The 2015 edition was based on digital sources that where made and mixed in 2001 and I think there is space for sonic improvement.

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2 hours ago, Chewy said:

This is getting a reissue on June 22, labeled as 20th Anniversary Edition!

 

image.png

 

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcomed one. However, I rightly purchased the score when it was released back in 2015. This is probably a dumb question, but is this simply a straight reissue of that first release (with the ONLY difference being the label of "20th Anniversary Edition"), or is this slightly remastered with at least two previously unreleased cues included?

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1 hour ago, JohnnyD said:

 

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcomed one. However, I rightly purchased the score when it was released back in 2015. This is probably a dumb question, but is this simply a straight reissue of that first release (with the ONLY difference being the label of "20th Anniversary Edition"), or is this slightly remastered with at least two previously unreleased cues included?

I don't think we know yet, I'm guessing we won't until closer to the release. 

 

I was under the impression that it was indeed already complete aside from a couple bits of Joseph Williams techno source. 

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I honestly don't know if it could possibly sound better given the first release; the music already sounds phenomenal!

 

IF it is in fact slightly remastered and / or includes at least two previously unreleased cues (i.e. Joseph Williams' source cues), then I'll consider double-dipping.

 

Otherwise, I'll just update the cover art for my Apple Music library. Either way, a great way to commemorate the film's 20th anniversary.

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There was a 5th piece of source music in the film, Tchaikovski's Sleeping Beauty waltz (probably the only piece of unreleased source music I actually want from the score). It's used for an early scene of Martin in his cryosleep pod. 

 

No existing recording was listed in the credits so I assume Williams conducted it at the A.I. sessions. He even refers to it in the film's scoring featurette. I would dearly love to hear that recording clean someday... 

 

I'd certainly consider double dipping if that source music was added or if they've reassembled the score using analogue transfers, but otherwise I'm very happy with the existing release. 

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2 hours ago, MrJosh said:

I was under the impression that it was indeed already complete aside from a couple bits of Joseph Williams techno source. 

 

Look at the post 5 posts before yours.

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The previous AI was just perfect.There is no need for anymore further remastering or inclusion.For my money this is just a reissue. 

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

There was a 5th piece of source music in the film, Tchaikovski's Sleeping Beauty waltz (probably the only piece of unreleased source music I actually want from the score). It's used for an early scene of Martin in his cryosleep pod. 

 

No existing recording was listed in the credits so I assume Williams conducted it at the A.I. sessions. He even refers to it in the film's scoring featurette. I would dearly love to hear that recording clean someday... 

 

Hmm, for some reason I was under the impression that was an existing recording dropped into the film, but now that I think about it, I can't recall why I thought that.  Maybe Williams did re-record it... now I don't know.

 

Still, it is a wholly alread-existing composition.  The 3 Joseph Williams source cues are brand new compositions that are part of the original music created for the film, and the I Only Have Eyes For You orchestral backing, while ostensibly an arrangement of the original song's melody and not a new composition, is at least a completely new arrangement that only exists because of the film.

 

All of this would be great to have, but we all know that Williams nixes source music all the time, and I don't think there'd be any reason to expect he'd even be asked if he changed his mind about including any of these things 6 years later, or that if he was asked, that he would now have a different answer.

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On 1/15/2021 at 8:24 AM, crumbs said:

Der Rosenkavalier is listed in the credits though, and Williams integrated that into his score. Maybe source music is credited differently to existing material rearranged into your own music.

 

I think the difference is Der Rosenkavalier is still under copyright, at least in the U.S., but all of Tchaikovsky’s compositions are public domain worldwide. However, this doesn’t make any specific recording of Tchaikovsky public domain, so I’d think they’d still normally credit the original recording if it wasn’t part of the film sessions.

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Lol I forgot I already posted the same information about the source music in this same thread back in January.  Wow.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Look at the post 5 posts before yours.

And a great post it was Jay, thanks. Sorry for missing that!

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9 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Maybe they went back to the first gen analogue tapes. The 2015 edition was based on digital sources that where made and mixed in 2001 and I think there is space for sonic improvement.

 

Nah, then there would have been more than 2000 copies.

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4 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

 

I think the difference is Der Rosenkavalier is still under copyright, at least in the U.S., but all of Tchaikovsky’s compositions are public domain worldwide. However, this doesn’t make any specific recording of Tchaikovsky public domain, so I’d think they’d still normally credit the original recording if it wasn’t part of the film sessions.


Der Rosenkavalier is by Richard Strauss, not Tchaikovksy 🙂

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9 minutes ago, TownerFan said:


Der Rosenkavalier is by Richard Strauss, not Tchaikovksy 🙂

But the Sleeping Beauty waltz is :) 

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I really hope there are no improvements which would compel me to spend the money for a 3CD set with the only benefit of slight upgrades.  Of course it's my choice to buy or not, but do hope my OCD isn't exploited.

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The “20th anniversary edition” label is not the only difference to the first release from 2015. The letters that comprise “Music from the Motion Picture” and “Music Composed and Conducted by” are blue instead of white.

 

What are the chances that this is not like the reissue of 1941? That had the same cover and everything. The only difference was that I was able to get it since I never got it the first time it was released.

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Hopefully they fixed the issue I’m having with my set.  When closed, I can tell disc 1 is loose inside the clamshell so when I open it up I risk scratching the disc.  

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On 6/1/2021 at 5:52 PM, Brundlefly said:

Maybe they went back to the first gen analogue tapes. The 2015 edition was based on digital sources that were made and mixed in 2001 and I think there is space for sonic improvement.

 

The first generation analogue tapes? Now you have me intrigued. The first release back in 2015 sounds phenomenal, crystal clear and impactful. The sound quality even exceeds the 2001 original soundtrack album. Exactly how could it sound any better? Do you think this is a situation similar to Home Alone? If that is the case, why would the number of units be 2000 vs. 3000 when it was first released? Why make the slight changes to the front cover? 

Maybe I am putting too much thought into this.

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Just a reissue, guys.Just a reissue of the same master.

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4 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

The first generation analogue tapes? Now you have me intrigued. The first release back in 2015 sounds phenomenal, crystal clear and impactful. The sound quality even exceeds the 2001 original soundtrack album. Exactly how could it sound any better?

Yeah and I believe the 2015 release comes from the first generation digital masters. Using the tapes would make a minimal improvement in sound only if the digital masters were not high resolution, and I doubt it.

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Harry Potter 1's digital master from later in the same year was 24/44.1.  By Harry Potter 2 one year later they were high res of some sort (probably either 24/48 or 24/96)

 

Of course, AI was Shawn Murphy, while HP1 and HP2 were Simon Rhodes, so that might not be relevant

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29 minutes ago, Jay said:

Harry Potter 1's digital mixes from later in the same year were 24/44.1.  By Harry Potter 2 one year later they were high res of some sort (probably either 24/48 or 24/96)

 

Of course, AI was Shawn Murphy, while HP1 and HP2 were Simon Rhodes, so that might not be relevant

Now that you mention that... Shawn Murphy worked on Minority Report after AI, and the MR digital mixes were 44.1 kHz too I think (if I remember correctly what Mike said in a podcast). So yeah, potentially AI digital mixes were not high-resolution!

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I know for sure that Mike had analog tape pulled and transferred in high res to build the new Minority Report.  I assume that, like HP1, he asked LLL to fund this because the digital mixes of the era were not high res.  I'm so happy LLL agree to pay for these transfers for both HP1 and MR! (another label could have easily declined and said the old digital master was good enough).

 

Minority Report's booklet credits "Digital Transfers by Post Haste Digital" while HP1's booklet credits "Analog-to-Digital Transfers by Warner Sound / Warner Bros. Archival Mastering"

 

AI's booklet has no similar credit so I guess he did use Murphy's 2001 digital master.  But I don't know the format of that master.

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9 minutes ago, Jay said:

I know for sure that Mike had analog tape pulled and transferred in high res to build the new Minority Report.  I assume that, like HP1, he asked LLL to fund this because the digital mixes of the era were not high res.  I'm so happy LLL agree to pay for these transfers for both HP1 and MR! (another label could have easily declined and said the old digital master was good enough).

 

I recall Mike saying that 20CF foot the bill for the MR analogue transfers, because his contact at Fox's music archive could redirect budget to fund music transfers (for archival purposes).

 

This was around the time of the Disney merger, and I think it was unclear whether that contact would retain their job in the restructure (or perhaps they retired, I can't remember).

 

I'm certain this was in @TownerFan's podcast episode on MR.

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I'd be curious to know just how drastic a sonic improvement A.I. could enjoy with new high-res analog transfers, compared to Murphy's 2001 digital masters.

 

The improvement new transfers made for MR was out of this world. If the same upgrade were possible for A.I., I'd double dip in a heartbeat.

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So lets look at everything we know about his 21st century scores

 

  • 2001 - AI - Shawn Murphy - presumably analog tapes exist in WB's vaults, but have not been transferred / 2001 digital master used for film, OST & LLL
  • 2001 - HP1 - Simon Rhodes - 2001 digital master (24/44.1) used for film and OST / analog tape transferred in high res for LLL, MM rebuilt every performance edit from scratch
  • 2002 - AOTC - Shawn Murphy - presumably recorded onto analog tape, with performance edits done digitally for film & OST / 2018 demaster presumably used a fresh analog transfer of every take, Murphy's team rebuilt performance edits with wrong takes used in spots
  • 2002 - MR - Shawn Murphy - 2002 digital master (unknown format) used for film & OST / analog tape transferred in high res for LLL, MM rebuilt every performance edit from scratch
  • 2002 - HP2 - Simon Rhodes - 2002 digital master (high res) used for film, OST, and LLL / original analog tape preserved fine in Kansas salt mine, but was not pulled and transferred for LLL set
  • 2002 - CMIYC - Shawn Murphy - ???
  • 2004 - The Terminal - Shawn Murphy - ???
  • 2004 - HP3 - Shawn Murphy - 2004 digital master used for film, OST, and LLL / Analog tape presumably exists but has not been located
  • 2005 - ROTS - Shawn Murphy - could have been recorded onto analog with digital performance edits, or could be all Pro Tools like WOTW?  Do we know?
  • 2005 - WOTW - Shawn Murphy - 2005 recording was high res digital / LLL rebuilt from original Pro Tool session / unknown if analog ran as a backup
  • 2005 - Geisha - Shawn Murphy - ???
  • 2005 - Munich - Shawn Murphy - ???
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I'm pretty sure there's space for improvement, because MR sounds noticably better than AI.

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35 minutes ago, Jay said:

2005 - ROTS - Shawn Murphy - could have been recorded onto analog with digital performance edits, or could be all Pro Tools like WOTW?  Do we know?

 

I think there's some contention around whether they were still recording analog and digital simultaneously by the third prequel.

 

@Chewy did some analysis of the spectograms from the ROTS Demaster and it appeared to come from digital masters, while TPM and AOTC seemed to have analog sources.

 

I recall years back an insider mentioning that Lucasfilm employees were having trouble remastering the ProTools sessions for ROTS for whatever reason. Can't be a repeat of the WOTW situation because Pete Myles didn't work on ROTS (though he was the music editor on AOTC).

 

There's certainly a clear visual difference.

 

TPM:

1943202063_01StarWarsMainTitleTheArrivalatNaboo_flac.png

 

AOTC:

91017222_01StarWarsMainTitleAmbushonCoruscant_flac.png

 

ROTS:

1235234698_01StarWarsTheRevengeoftheSith_flac.png

 

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RotS is definitely cleaner and the usual 15.735 kHz frequencies that are inherent to the recording are very "precise" on RotS compared to TPM and AotC.

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So it looks like ROTS setup might have been similar to WOTW's, and for the 2018 demasters they just used the original 2005 Pro Tools sessions to re-do the OST edits.

 

It's possible analog tape ran as a backup anyway, but Shawn Murphy just chose not to dig it out and transfer it for the demasters because he wanted to use his original Pro Tool sessions

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I'd be curious to know just how drastic a sonic improvement A.I. could enjoy with new high-res analog transfers, compared to Murphy's 2001 digital masters.

 

The improvement new transfers made for MR was out of this world. If the same upgrade were possible for A.I., I'd double dip in a heartbeat.


I agree 100%. However, the fact that the 20th anniversary edition is limited to 2000 units vs. the first release’s 3000 units makes me think that it is simply a straight reissue with no changes, aside from the slight changes to the cover art. However, if it is a straight reissue, why go to the trouble of slightly changing the cover art? No changes were made to 1941 when that was reissued. Any chance of information coming out prior to June 22? I forget LLL’s procedures with these things; it’s been a while.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyD said:

No changes were made to 1941 when that was reissued.

 

The catalog number was changed along with the number of copies, and probably the copyright year too.

 

But yes, identical audio data pressed to disc for each release.

 

Quote

Any chance of information coming out prior to June 22? I forget LLL’s procedures with these things; it’s been a while.

 

LLL's procedure is that these monthly flyers are all we get until the night before the titles go up for sale, when their emailed newsletter reveals the tracklist and blurb.  Unless a website works with them to debut this information sooner, like JWFan did for Minority Report or Planetary Union did for The Orville, for example.

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I can't imagine this reissue was built from the ground up using new analogue transfers, as much as I'd love it to be the case.

 

Doubt LLL would even make their money back with 2000 units. Transfers don't come cheap, not to mention the cost of re-assembling and remastering the release.

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