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A.I. Artificial Intelligence (2001) - 2021 20th Anniversary Edition (reissue of 2015 3CD set) from La-La Land Records


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7 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Indeed, in fact I think it was confirmed that Williams specifically requested the full cue be replaced with the edited album version. Utterly maddening, but at least we got the full cue on the DCC.

 

What a shame Mike isn't working on a new Indy set, those scores desperately need an upgrade (supervised by someone who knows what they're doing!)

When it happens it will be Matessino only behind the scenes. 

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4 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

 

I do remember that Biker Hounds (Extension) was entirely by Joseph Williams.

 

Biker Hounds had always felt a little odd to me. Not only for the huge departure from style, but for many other reasons I cannot put down.
I remember upon release it was unknown that it was Joseph who had actually written it, and many reviewers at the time praised JW for trying new ground outside of his usual style for that little piece of music (I think it may have even been mentioned in some of the cast & crew promotional interviews).
Such collaborations are not uncommon or anything to be hidden, and I often wish they were more openly communicated (and properly credited in the albums). 
I confess I felt somehow relieved to find that it was Joseph's composition; it finally made sense. In any case, in no way does it detract from the masterpiece that is A.I.

Additionally, I have never seen this mentioned anywhere else, but the vocal part is sampled! I ignore the original source, but I remember being rather confused when I first heard it in Stewart Copeland's score for "Gridlock'd". I don't think that score has been released, but the sample can be clearly heard here (at 3:39):

 

 

For comparison: 
 

 

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It would be so exciting if we got an early Azkaban master with all those early cues Mike submitted and JW vetoed that they didn't even look for, let alone find or have!

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BUCKBEAK'S FLIGHT WITH CYMBAL CRASH OVERLAY!

 

FILM VERSION OF BEFRIENDING THE HIPPOGRIFF!

 

FILM MIX OF DOUBLE TROUBLE WITH FROGS!

 

EARLY DEMO OF DOUBLE TROUBLE USED ON SET!

 

And hopefully a gazillion more alternates that turn up someday when more elements are discovered in the WB vault!

 

Azkaban could easily be reissued as a packed 3-CD set if all those alternates in the sheets were recorded.

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15 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

I wanted to ask this. In the score featurette, the Maestro makes mention of Biker Hounds, as well as The Helicopter. His son, Joseph Williams, composed Biker Hounds, correct? Or was that co-written by John Williams? I know that all the Rouge City source music was done by Joseph Williams, but was The Helicopter entirely Joseph Williams also, or was it co-written by his father? I ask because the Maestro mentions that specific cue during the score featurette.

 

Now that I think about it, that one source cue with the saxophone. Was that entirely by Joseph Williams, or was the saxophone parts composed by John Williams and the electronic rhythm done by his son? I'm pretty sure that it was done entirely by Joseph Williams, but I want to clarify whether or not that is so. I know that Inside Dr. Know was all by John Williams.

 

 

FWIW,

 

GEMA only lists John Williams for Inside Dr. Know's:

 

drknow.png

 

For the Biker Hounds source cue, there's actually an entry for both Joe and John under the title "Joe's Biker Cue":

 

biker2.png

 

And an entry for John only under the title "Biker Cue Extension"

 

biker1.png

 

"Rouge City Jazz" also has an entry for both John and Joe, while "Rouge City Rock" only lists John

 

jazzrock.png

 

And then the Helicopter cue only lists John, which is sort of conflicting since it's just Rouge City Jazz with the sax line replaced by an electronics line

 

helicopter.png

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8 hours ago, Madmartigan JC said:

Biker Hounds had always felt a little odd to me. Not only for the huge departure from style, but for many other reasons I cannot put down.
I remember upon release it was unknown that it was Joseph who had actually written it, and many reviewers at the time praised JW for trying new ground outside of his usual style for that little piece of music (I think it may have even been mentioned in some of the cast & crew promotional interviews).
Such collaborations are not uncommon or anything to be hidden, and I often wish they were more openly communicated (and properly credited in the albums). 
I confess I felt somehow relieved to find that it was Joseph's composition; it finally made sense. In any case, in no way does it detract from the masterpiece that is A.I.

Additionally, I have never seen this mentioned anywhere else, but the vocal part is sampled! I ignore the original source, but I remember being rather confused when I first heard it in Stewart Copeland's score for "Gridlock'd". I don't think that score has been released, but the sample can be clearly heard here (at 3:39):

 

 

For comparison: 
 

 

 

I'd be willing to wager it came from one of the old Spectrasonics programs, which were used in pretty much everything in the late 90's / early 2000's (including a sample or two in Attack of the Clones). I remember they had at least one vocal program that had probably hundreds of samples that sounded just like this, I bet that's where it's from. They also had a lot of electronic beats/guitar samplers which probably makes up the rest of the track.

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10 hours ago, Amer said:

Another example of Williams intervening and removing a cue from the mix prepared by Matessino was on EMPIRE OF THE SUN. 

 

The film version of the cue 'Cadillac of the Sky' had a near 10 second harp glissando insert in the opening of the track which Williams specifically asked to be removed from Mike's assembly and the original version sans insert be used. 

 

It's the only thing that sometimes makes me cringe because it would have been perfect for this already fantastic release.

 

Do you have a source for this wild claim you are making here? I am fairly sure Mike never even tried to fit that harp gliss on the set anywhere; And it's 2 seconds long, not ten seconds.  You can hear it from 1:06-1:07 below

 

 

Quote

And now I suspect that Williams must have nixed the full 'Desert Chase' cue from the Concord release of the RAIDERS - INDIANA JONES Box set in a similar fashion when it was being produced by Laurent Bouzereau. Oh well... 

 

I doubt that's what happened; I think it's more likely that Bouzereau took the easy way out whenever possible making that set and just slapped the album master version of that track on there rather than having his team actually go through the work of crossfading three cues together :P 

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59 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

FWIW,

 

GEMA only lists John Williams for Inside Dr. Know's:

 

drknow.png

 

For the Biker Hounds source cue, there's actually an entry for both Joe and John under the title "Joe's Biker Cue":

 

biker2.png

 

And an entry for John only under the title "Biker Cue Extension"

 

biker1.png

 

"Rouge City Jazz" also has an entry for both John and Joe, while "Rouge City Rock" only lists John

 

jazzrock.png

 

And then the Helicopter cue only lists John, which is sort of conflicting since it's just Rouge City Jazz with the sax line replaced by an electronics line

 

helicopter.png

 

Okay, now I'm confused. So, was Biker Hounds (Extension), Rouge City Jazz, Rouge City Rock, and Helicopter done entirely by Joseph Williams or not?

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I just provided you all the information I know man ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Out of all the source music, the one that definitely sounds like it most plausibly Joe only is Rouge City Rock, and that's the one he isn't credited for in GEMA, so who the hell knows what the truth is

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9 minutes ago, Jay said:

I doubt that's what happened; I think it's more likely that Bouzereau took the easy way out whenever possible making that set and just slapped the album master version of that track on there rather than having his team actually go through the work of crossfading three cues together :P 

 

But didn't the leaked prototype master of the Concord Raiders release feature the unedited version of Desert Chase, ala the DCC?

 

Genuinely can't remember... unfortunately I don't think I have that leaked album saved anywhere.

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1 minute ago, crumbs said:

 

But didn't the leaked prototype master of the Concord Raiders release feature the unedited Desert Chase? I genuinely can't remember... unfortunately I don't think I have that leaked album saved anywhere.

 

It did, but it's important to note that the fan community calls that leak a "Concord Protoype" but we don't actually know what it is.  It just showed up on demonoid one day and we assumed that's what it was, but it could literally just be some fan-made thing

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

It did, but it's important to note that the fan community calls that leak a "Concord Protoype" but we don't actually know what it is.  It just showed up on demonoid one day and we assumed that's what it was, but it could literally just be some fan-made thing

 

Yeah, fair enough. Although didn't that leak also feature a perfect sounding version of one of the Indy Climbs the Statue alternates that was previously unreleased and wasn't included on the final set?

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And the different Desert Chase intro portion that isn't featured anywhere else?

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2 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

Yeah, fair enough. Although didn't that leak also feature a perfect sounding version of one of the Indy Climbs the Statue alternates that was previously unreleased and wasn't included on the final set?

 

Yep!

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1 minute ago, Holko said:

And the different Desert Chase intro portion that isn't featured anywhere else?

 

Whaaat?

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Compare this section:

 

with this:

 

 

It's edited out of the OST, the DCC has the film version I think, and the prototype has the alternate (confusingly marked film version in the video title) that I far prefer.

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I didn't put the timestamp exactly at the difference.

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13 minutes ago, Jay said:

Woah my posts up above didn't combine together, that's weird

 

42c6fe23508428a08ad643a2f5ce1ce9.gif

 

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46 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Do you have a source for this wild claim you are making here? I am fairly sure Mike never even tried to fit that harp gliss on the set anywhere; And it's 2 seconds long, not ten seconds.  You can hear it from 1:06-1:07 below

 

 

 

I doubt that's what happened; I think it's more likely that Bouzereau took the easy way out whenever possible making that set and just slapped the album master version of that track on there rather than having his team actually go through the work of crossfading three cues together :P 

Wild claim ? Excuse me. This is NOT a wild claim. Its a known old Little fact that has been discussed before. This is very the first thing I asked Matessino when the new set came out and I noticed the opening harp sweetener was missing and he informed me that he had to  sadly nix it due to Williams request. Don’t you remember this well enough given your new enclycopediac knowledge. And it’s under  5seconds and but those 2-5seconds still sound like 10 second to me because I love the way the harp blossomed with the fire ball.

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OK. I do not recall ever seeing this information before.  Are you sure it's been posted somewhere publicly before, and/or that he is OK with you sharing something he told you in a private email?

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12 minutes ago, Jay said:

OK. I do not recall ever seeing this information before.  Are you sure it's been posted somewhere publicly before, and/or that he is OK with you sharing something he told you in a private email?


What I’m saying It’s been discussed here before  and at the FSM board a long time ago. Things like these are also often discussed in the podcasts so I don’t see the private aspect here. Eg. We have been told that Sugarland Express was also prepared and ready to go and then it got cancelled by Williams etc. We are trying to talk about a 2 seconds here. You can check with him too if you want to verify further it’s been a so long now. He would have to consult his notes etc.

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I do not see any posts in the JWFan thread for the release indicating he tried to get the harp intro included but WIlliams nixed it

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/24469-empire-of-the-sun-la-la-land-2cd/

 

In the FSM thread, the only post about it is one from you indicating the same thing you said here:

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&threadID=103637&archive=0

 

So yes, it was mentioned publicly in the past, indeed! I do not recall ever reading that one single post previously, though I'm sure I would have at the time (7 years ago!)

 

Anyway, I more meant that Mike himself had never revealed that publicly, which is still true.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Do you have a source for this wild claim you are making here? I am fairly sure Mike never even tried to fit that harp gliss on the set anywhere; And it's 2 seconds long, not ten seconds.  You can hear it from 1:06-1:07 below

 

 

 

I doubt that's what happened; I think it's more likely that Bouzereau took the easy way out whenever possible making that set and just slapped the album master version of that track on there rather than having his team actually go through the work of crossfading three cues together :P 


I think ‘Desert Chase’ was always planned by Williams to be the edited version here. He make a specific mention of this in the old Making of RAIDERS Book...

So Bouzereau probable lost a Battle because he was trying to get more stuff in.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I do not see any posts in the JWFan thread for the release indicating he tried to get the harp intro included but WIlliams nixed it

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/24469-empire-of-the-sun-la-la-land-2cd/

 

In the FSM thread, the only post about it is one from you indicating the same thing you said here:

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&threadID=103637&archive=0

 

So yes, it was mentioned publicly in the past, indeed! I do not recall ever reading that one single post previously, though I'm sure I would have at the time (7 years ago!)

 

Anyway, I more meant that Mike himself had never revealed that publicly, which is still true.

Probably also on a Facebook discussion where Matessino was chatting too. I usually ask Matessino or any one else before I go public about information. They are certain details that always kept from public and I would never reveal those from past or present.  So yes, I had his approval to disclose these details but only after the release of the album which means that I had this information much before the official release date (probably at LLLs flier Timeline) 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I just provided you all the information I know man ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Out of all the source music, the one that definitely sounds like it most plausibly Joe only is Rouge City Rock, and that's the one he isn't credited for in GEMA, so who the hell knows what the truth is


I think I found the answer. This was from your interview with Mike Matessino in 2015, in which Mike said the following:

 

“Besides “The Biker Hounds (extension),” Joe composed “Rouge City Jazz” and “Rouge City Rock.” The first one plays when we first see Gigolo Joe on the street. It’s reused later as a piece called “Joe’s Helicopter Cue,” which replaces the saxophone overlay with synthesized brass chords and other electronic elements, but it’s the same recording underneath repeated from earlier.”

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

Compare this section:

 

with this:

 

 

It's edited out of the OST, the DCC has the film version I think, and the prototype has the alternate (confusingly marked film version in the video title) that I far prefer.

Not just little section is different. I like the additional percussion in the film version much more. 

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3 hours ago, Amer said:

Don’t you remember this well enough given your new enclycopediac knowledge.

 

:lol:

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Allow me to vent my frustration as well.

 

In spite of already having bough the first printing, I’d have probably caved and bought this one too had this been an “officially” expanded reprint, with info given beforehand.

 

If there’s a reprint of the expanded Dracula in the near future, let’s hope they “forget to omit” JW’s waltz...

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5 hours ago, Holko said:

And the different Desert Chase intro portion that isn't featured anywhere else?

Whoops, the prototype just has the stupid OST edit so it's missing this bit. No idea where it comes from then.

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Getting back to A.I. Hypothetically, disc 3 would've most likely looked like this:

 

1. For Always - 4:47

2. Cybertronics (Alternate) - 3:06

3. David's Arrival (Alternate) - 3:11

4. Canoeing With Pinocchio (Alternate) - 1:57

5. Abandoned In the Woods (Alternate) - 3:34

6. Rouge City Jazz - 3:25

7. The Biker Hounds (Extension) - 2:37

8. Inside Dr. Know's - 4:33

9. Inside Dr. Know's (Alternate) - 2:06

10. Helicopter - 2:01

11. Replicas (Alternate) - 3:59

12. Finding the Blue Fairy (Alternate) - 6:01

13. Finding the Blue Fairy (Orchestral Excerpt) - 3:40

14. What Is Your Wish? (Alternate) - 4:09

15. The Reunion (Alternate) - 7:03

16. Abandoned In the Woods (Album Version) - 3:11

17. For Always (Duet) - 4:41

18. A.I. Theme (Vocal Version) (Alternate) - 4:16

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14 hours ago, Jay said:

It is sort of surprising GEMA would have false information in it though

 

I've found some false info in GEMA before. Granted, I don't know if I can blame GEMA in the case I'm referring to as the film itself credits the incorrect recordings of certain songs in it's end titles.

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I don’t lament the loss of the Joseph Williams source cues as much as I do missing out on the alternates for “Inside Dr Know's” and “A.I. Theme (Vocal)”.

 

And needless to say JW’s arrangements of “I Only Have Eyes For You” and the “Sleeping Beauty” waltz - even though they were never in the cards.

 

Still...

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5 hours ago, rough cut said:

...JW’s arrangements of “I Only Have Eyes For You” and the “Sleeping Beauty” waltz...

 

I knew that the Maestro did an arrangement of "I Only Have Eyes for You." However, he also did an arrangement of the waltz from Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty? All these years, I thought that was a preexisting recording and NOT done by the Maestro. Is this 100% confirmed, or is it speculative?

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3 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

 

I knew that the Maestro did an arrangement of "I Only Have Eyes for You." However, he also did an arrangement of the waltz from Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty? All these years, I thought that was a pre-existing recording and NOT done by the Maestro. Is this 100% confirmed, or is it speculative?

 

It's speculated that JW recorded it at the AI sessions because no preexisting recording is listed in the credits. It's a shame we can't get a definitive confirmation from anyone. 

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

It's speculated that JW recorded it at the AI sessions because no preexisting recording is listed in the credits.

 

You're right! No preexisting recording was listed in the credits! Case closed!

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