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Hook - 30th Anniversary Double Vinyl from Mondo Records 2021


Jay
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I imagine he had fun with Briscusse writing songs together.  I wonder if he was sad to see most of them cut from the film, or happy to?

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Good question, I guess he's pretty used to having things cut, lol. But it must be frustrating. At least he got some great themes out of it.

 

There was at least one song (Low Below) that was filmed and then cut, right? So maybe he never even saw the final version after it was cut? He's said he often doesn't watch the films he works on after they're done.

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1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Out of interest, what does JW think of HOOK?

Spielberg has gone on record, saying that he doesn't like it. I wonder if that's the case, with JW?

If nothing else, it's probably one of those cases where he scored the best version of the film in his head rather than the film as it actually was (like so many Goldsmith scores).

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7 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

Good question, I guess he's pretty used to having things cut, lol. But it must be frustrating. At least he got some great themes out of it.

 

Sure but what I meant was, we can assume he likes the score (based on its prominence on the Spielberg/Williams album and the fact that he continues to perform Flight To Neverland 30 years later).... but maybe he didn't like the songs?  After all, he didn't put a version of When You're Alone, or any cue that contained that melody, on that album...

 

 

7 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

There was at least one song (Low Below) that was filmed and then cut, right? So maybe he never even saw the final version after it was cut? He's said he often doesn't watch the films he works on after they're done.

 

For all we know, all the recorded songs were filmed and then cut.  Who knows!

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2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

JW probably had fun with Hook. The same can't be said about stuff like Crystal Skull or the Star Wars sequels.

I think so; even if the film didn't quite work, it's a charming concept with a broad canvas on which to weave a mixture of fantasy, whimsy, drama and emotion.

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5 hours ago, ATXHusker said:

So far this year we've gotten three amazing JW movie releases with a wealth of unheard of music and/or remastered OST(s).  With 4 months to go for the year I anticipate 1 or 2 more JW releases, possibly another Spielberg release!  A pretty successful year considering the recovery mode that the soundtrack labels are currently in.

I agree. Besides, while I would be greatly disappointed that Hook was not given the remastered and expanded treatment to commemorate the film's 30th anniversary, I am still looking forward to the next expanded release by the Maestro, whatever it is.

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I am really happy and thankful that MM gives such care and attention to the 'less important' works, though I understand they're not as big and exciting as stuff like HP and JP, but to have things like Pete N Tillie / Stanley & Iris with the same amount of love and care put into it, is a special thing, and I'm sure other smaller gems to be released in the future *coughstepmomcough*, will have the same love and care put into them. 

 

I also kind of like the mystery of wondering what gem we'll get next and I'll be excited for each one, whether it's The Paper Chase or whether it's  a 10 Disc Star Wars Sequel Trilogy set. 

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2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I've only recently become acquainted with Hook, what all is missing?

On 8/17/2021 at 12:39 PM, Jay said:

 

- It isn't complete.  There is music you can hear in the film that isn't on it, as well as unused music that turned up in leaks that isn't on it...and even music on the original OST release that isn't on it!

- It isn't chronological.  This is subjective of course, and many may like the programming choices just fine, but many find it odd that some cues only appear as bonus tracks, or that album tracks that combined cues from two different parts of the movie were retained in the main program

- The sound quality isn't consistent.  The release fluctuates between 3 different sources: 2011 transfers of some sort of unearthed tapes, the album master, and the final film's music stem.  That source sounds noticeably worse than the other two, even to people who don't normally notice these types of things, and contains volume fluctuations and edited passages as needed for the film itself

- They didn't recreate the intended performance edits out of what they pulled from the 2011 transfers.  So if JW recorded a cue 5 times and his approved version used in the film used 40 seconds of take 5, 10 seconds from take 3, 20 seconds from take 2, and then the rest from take 5, the same cue on the LLL set might just be take 5 throughout.

 

That's a rough outline of it that hopefully gets the point across about why so many people desire a new edition done over from scratch by Mike.

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10 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Right, but I mean what bits specifically?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RkNLq-YR0_opIVfQ0DmvGMtRTn087u4PFEjwfbHmZF4/edit#gid=3

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42 minutes ago, Jay said:

The actual film version of 7M6/8M1 The Face Of Pan (in the track "You Are The Pan"), which does not use choir (the LLL used a version with choir, which incidentally was tracked into the end of the film by Spielberg instead of using the opening of 15M3 My Lost Boys)

 

I don't have a copy of the Hook OST handy, but I'm assuming that combo track on the LLL (You Are The Pan) replicates what JW did for his OST (except the LLL featured choir, while the OST didn't).

 

What strange decisions. In any event, The Face of Pan deserves to be in its rightful place in the first half of the score.

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39 minutes ago, Jay said:

The following additional songs were mentioned by Dan Schweiger in the liner notes, but we don't actually know if they were recorded or not - or if they would even get approved for a commercial release if they were

  1. Believe
  2. Childhood
  3. Low Below
  4. Stick With Me

 

The full score of 5M6/6M1 Hook's Entrance references a playback version ("See P.B."), which almost certainly means a version of 'Low Below' was recorded.

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11 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

I don't have a copy of the Hook OST handy, but I'm assuming that combo track on the LLL (You Are The Pan) replicates what JW did for his OST (except the LLL featured choir, while the OST didn't).

 

Right!

 

11 minutes ago, crumbs said:

What strange decisions. In any event, The Face of Pan deserves to be in its rightful place in the first half of the score.

 

Absolutely.

 

10 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

 

The full score of 5M6/6M1 Hook's Entrance references a playback version ("See P.B."), which almost certainly means a version of 'Low Below' was recorded.

 

Yes, Low Below was certainly recorded AND filmed - footage of the filmed sequence is here

 

I'll put that in the post!

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Woah, that's amazing!  You can hear the "Low Below, your bones'll show!" lyric being sung!

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In the film, I Remember(12m2) opens with something not present on the album. I don't know instruments that well, but its like a little jingle that opens since Follow that Shadow takes place after the album version of The Home Run. This is heard on the leak, but would it turn up in an album expansion I wonder?

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A proper expansion would no longer have The Home Run's ending segue into I Remember's opening like the OST and LLL do, since Follow That Shadow would go in between them. So yea, it should be fine. 

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6 hours ago, Goldfingers said:

 

And here a behind the scene clip of the end of the song (from an european promotional laserdisc). The clip shows the pirates coming out of the smoke tunnel that separates the pirate town and the Jolly Roger singing the end of "Low Below" song - replaced in the movie by "Show us the Hook".

 

 

Wow! Well there's your confirmation that songs were filmed, and the sheet music appears to confirm they were pre-recorded (to use on set).

 

So there is clearly much more material in the vaults that wasn't released in 2011. Have any musicians ever discussed attending or performing on early sessions for Hook?

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On 8/19/2021 at 11:15 AM, Jay said:

 

The following music can be heard in the film, yet is not on the LLL, the OST album, or any leak/boot (times taken from Amazon Prime display):

  1. 0:00:48-0:01:50 = the unreleased portion of the Mike Lang piano solo that underscores the Peter Pan play {1M2?}
  2. 0:08:10-0:09:15 = "God Rest You Merry, Gentlemen" heard sung by carolers outside Granny Wendy's house, not written by Williams but recorded by him for the movie
  3. 0:38:35-0:39:18 = three different vocal overlays ("Hook! Hook!", "Hook, Hook, Hook Hook!" and "Hook, Hook, Show Us The Hook! Hook, Hook, Give Us The Hook!" mixed on top of 5M5 Show Us The Hook {one of the overlays turned up on the leak, but I don't know if it is a film take or an unused take}
  4. 0:51:40-0:51:42 = a vocal overlay mixed on top of 7M2 To Neverland
  5. 0:56:26-0:56:57 = a drum insert (or alternate take?) for the basketball scene during 7M5 The Lost Boys Ballet
  6. 1:06:06-1:08:16 = "Pick 'Em Up", a song by Williams with lyrics by Leslie Bricusse
  7. 1:16:33-1:17:14 = 9M4 Insert (the film version of the Neverfeast insert; the old boots had a slightly different insert)
  8. 1:26:25-1:27:58 & 1:28:15-1:28:52 = "Take Me Out To The Ballgame", not written by Williams but recorded by him for the movie {the leak has some kind of partial take of just the backing part, without the lead}
  9. 1:47:57-1:48:15 = 13M2 Insert Bar 37 (the insert for the moment Peter shows up)
  10. 1:50:24-1:50:29 = 13M3 Insert (the insert for the moment The Lost Boys show up)
  11. And in a general sense, all the correct film take portions for many cues in the film where the boot/leak/LLL presented unused take portions instead

The following music turned up in leaks/boots, but is not in the film, or on the LLL CD, or on the OST album:

  1. A take of the celeste solo in 4M4 The Arrival Of Tink played at a higher octave (making it sound more ethereal than the film/album/LLL version)
  2. A take of 5M6/6M1 Hook's Entrance that has the fanfare (heard on the LLL take) taceted out (the film uses no music for this bit)
  3. The full ending of 7M4 Enter Rufio, which is missing on the LLL for some reason
  4. The full ending of 9M3 The Banquet, which is faded down early on both the OST and the LLL
  5. A super important portion of 15M2 The End of Hook that Spielberg dialed out of the final film (the climax of the score!)
  6. Tiny portions of some of the reel 14 and 15 cues that were edited down in the final film and only presented on the LLL from the film's music stem
  7. And in a general sense, a bunch of alternate take portions, though there's of course no need to an official album to include any of these

The following music was edited down in the only version released, meaning the full unedited cue is unreleased

  1. Potentially more of the Peter Pan play music (1M2?), if it was edited down for the film (with no sheet music, we don't know if it was or not)
  2. 1M4 Yuppie Sounds ("Banning Back Home" on the OST album) - the sheet music reveals where the cuts are and how much is missing
  3. Potentially more of 1M4 Yuppie Sounds (Revised Version) ("Banning Back Home (Film Version)"), if it was edited down for the film (with no sheet music, we don't know if it was or not)

The following music was on the OST album, but was not included on the LLL album

  1. The original ending of 4M5/5M1 I Don't Believe In Fairies (in the track "The Arrival of Tink and the Flight To Neverland"), which was replaced in the film & LLL with a New Ending
  2. The full ending of 7M3 Lost Boys Appear (in the track "From Mermaids to Lost Boys"), which was omitted from the LLL track for some reason
  3. The actual film version of 7M6/8M1 The Face Of Pan (in the track "You Are The Pan"), which does not use choir (the LLL release included an unused version with choir instead)

    The following material can be seen in sheet music leaks, and was most likely not recorded, but you never know!

    1. The original version of 5M5 Show Us The Hook, which used the Low Below theme throughout instead of switching to the Stick With Me theme
    2. The original version of 13M2 To War!!, which has a section replaced by Alternate Insert 37-39 (which is different than the Insert Bar 37 that replaced it in the final film)
    3. The original version of 15M2 The End of Hook, which had a section replaced by 15M2 Insert Bar 28
    4. The original version of 15M4 The Next Morning, which had a section replaced by 15M4 Insert

    The following additional songs were mentioned by Dan Schweiger in the LLL liner notes

    1. Believe (potentially never recorded or filmed)
    2. Childhood (probably recorded as the lyrics turned up in a lyric book, unknown if filmed or not)
    3. Low Below (recorded and filmed - pictures here and video footage w/ audio here)
    4. Stick With Me (potentially never recorded or filmed)

     

     

    And that's not even considering the proper separation of cues that are still overlapped on the LLL, proper sourcing of music that was pulled from the film's music stem on the LLL, properly presenting the trailer cue ("Prologue") at the right speed...

     

    Jeezaloo! Just out of curiosity, on the 2012 LLL set, what tracks use the incorrect takes instead of the proper film takes? For example, I know "Wendy Tells Peter the Truth" has the wrong take of Looney Wendy (Part 2) and the first half of The Ultimate War has the wrong take (To War! ironically has the correct take on the OST, along with the other cues that make up said original album). What a mess!

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    That sounds like a weird fan mockup and not what's heard in the actual film

     

    The sheet music leak sadly can't tell us the instrument because it matches the album version of that section iirc

    8 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

    Just out of curiosity, on the 2012 LLL set, what tracks use the incorrect takes instead of the proper film takes? 

     

    All of them I think. Well, other than the material pulled from the album master or film stem

     

    Most of the time the wrong take portion is barely any different, it's just not what was supposed to be heard. 

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    5 minutes ago, Jay said:

    That sounds like a weird fan mockup and not what's heard in the actual film

     

    Actually, that is the actual percussion insert as heard in the film; it is just blended with the original version.

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    24 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

     

    Actually, that is the actual percussion insert as heard in the film; it is just blended with the original version.

     

    Really? Where did that come from? I don't recall ever seeing that in a leak.

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    44 minutes ago, Jay said:

    That sounds like a weird fan mockup and not what's heard in the actual film

     

    13 minutes ago, crumbs said:

    Really? Where did that come from? I don't recall ever seeing that in a leak.

     

    That's my video, I ripped it straight from the Atmos track.

     

    I'll be uploading the isolated percussion sans orchestra in a separate video later today.

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    Wow, impressive!

     

    It sounds so much better than the film stems LLL used back in 2011... albeit those were for other cues.

     

    Any chance of getting clean film inserts for Ultimate War, or Cornucopia, from the Atmos track?

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    23 minutes ago, crumbs said:

    Wow, impressive!

     

    It sounds so much better than the film stems LLL used back in 2011... albeit those were for other cues.

     

    Any chance of getting clean film inserts for Ultimate War, or Cornucopia, from the Atmos track?

     

    Was going to take a look at those later today; hopefully they're just as clean!

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    • 2 weeks later...
    Quote

    And just a PS

    Hook is not happening this year so start the bitching now

    (There is your lump of coal) lol

    MV

     

    https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=145068&forumID=1&archive=0

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    1 hour ago, Bespin said:

    It has a defective CD, 1 year delayed.

     

    Good. That'll give ol' J-Dubs some extra time to nix a few more cues from the release.

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    5 hours ago, Jay said:

     

    Figures... However, this does not mean we won't have at least one expanded release by the Maestro coming before the year is over.

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    3 hours ago, crumbs said:

    I think LLL said they had a "spectacular" JW release still to come this year (I think).

     

    Keeping my fingers crossed for Amistad.

    Between Images, The Eiger Sanction and even Always, I'd say it's a spectacular year already. For me anyway. :)

     

    Karol

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