John Williams & Boston Pops Orchestra - Complete Philips Recordings (NEW 2022 21-CD boxset)

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Wow!

Where did he find the time?

 

[Amer 2,099]

Did I read this correctly? They are going to print the liner notes as a booklet and issue it with subsequent pressings after this batch? They should seriously send a copy to those who bought the first edition. Although, it will be great to get a pdf too!

[rough cut 1,714]

Where is this info?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

the set has a booklet. I think it says in the back cover that it will be available in PDF form (but not yet)

 

That is what i understood from the conversation in this thread.

[lairdo 726]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:10 AM, Luke Skywalker said:

the set has a booklet. I think it says in the back cover that it will be available in PDF form (but not yet)

 

That is what i understood from the conversation in this thread.

 

Decca tends to issue the booklets for most of their recent releases, but my experience has been that the content is always the same as the printed material. I am not sure where there is talk of a new edition with all the liner notes, so I cannot address this.

 

Also, Decca does take about a month before they put the PDF on the site for download. No idea why. Maybe piracy? Figuring that people would skip buying if they could get the liner notes digitally and find the files? Not sure. For this release, the liner notes are not very extensive. But for something like the Solti box sets, I love having them digitally. (I have the London set that is the first on the page at the moment.)

 

https://booklets.deccaclassics.com

 

Update as of Mar 6 2022: The direct link to the booklet is https://d24ku69pnn7av2.cloudfront.net/decca-classics-booklets/2022/00028948515905_JohnWilliams_Booklet.pdf

 

[bollemanneke 3,342]

On 25/01/2022 at 4:35 PM, Erik Woods said:

Ugh!
 

 

Jesus Christ. What an ass and what a daft "review".

This guy might know his stuff but is this seriously a review or just a guy reading track names on albums that clearly he hasn't listened to? I mean, all he is doing is criticizing the timings of pieces and has no additional arguments based on listening to support his claim that Williams isn't a charismatic conductor. BTW, picking on The Planets alone doesn't support the argument. Every conductor has their off days... every single one! And then after each album, he has to either undermine pops recordings or film music as a whole. Oh, and don't you just love it when he thinks he's singing "The Mission Theme" but sings "Meet The Press" instead? This clown hasn't listened to any of these recordings. How can you review a set and criticize a conductor WITHOUT listening? Yes, what an ass!

-Erik-

Just wanted to say that I'm now watching his second Beethoven-related review and this guy comes across as really interesting and knowledgeable and I agree with a lot of his points.

 

And now I'm going to say something that I know will result in me getting lots of quote notifications by e-mail: What if there is some truth to his claim that JW isn't a great conductor? Would that explain some Vienna issues? Just... throwing it out there. And I will also note that I still prefer the performance of HP2 to that of HP1.

[The Lost Folio 183]

I think there's a bit of both. Hurwitz is right saying that pops concerts (and recordings) generally don't leave much room for conductors to show their art. 

 

But also, for having seen John Williams conduct quite a few times, including with the great Philadelphia Orchestra, he doesn't seem to be very inspiring. He gets the job done, mostly, but in most selections more like a bandleader than a classical conductor. But the last concert in Philadelphia had so many mistakes, Johnny was unable to give clear downbeats and tempi. (I was really glad Stéphane Denève was there to conduct the E.T. selections--the best I had ever heard--by far!!) There might be a few reasons for that though, starting with his age, but also considering that there are minimal rehearsals for these concerts, so no time to explore the breadth of interpretation.

 

That being said, I still enjoy all of these recordings! Most often than not they are highly exhilarating! And I entirely disagree with Hurwitz's condescending attitude.

[Fabulin 3,511]

Some great composers were also excellent conductors (Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Liszt, Wagner, Mahler, Korngold, L. Bernstein)

 

Most others, including Williams, also got the job done, and sometimes very well, but rarely in music that wasn't their own.

 

One thing I find curious is how, for a former Julliard pianist graduate capable of playing with his left hand over right, playing while talking, playing while not looking, etc., Williams has relatively little independence of hands while conducting. IIRC the sort of waving both hands in parallel is called 'kappellmeister' in the conducting jargon, an expression Lebrecht, for example, had used.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Conductors do their work in rehearsal.

The orchestra isn't following him onstage, in most instances. It's for show.

[The Lost Folio 183]

47 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Conductors do their work in rehearsal.

The orchestra isn't following him onstage, in most instances. It's for show.

 

This is very far from true!! A great conductor can do a lot even with a lack of rehearsals, a bad one won't. 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Once on stage, an orchestra doesn't needs a conductor except for maybe dynamics and tempo.

If they haven't been properly prepared in rehearsal, nothing a conductor can do on stage will make a difference.

Don't argue with me!.

😎

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

10 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I will also note that I still prefer the performance of HP2 to that of HP1.

The fact that HP2 was by the LSO is of no importance i suppose.

 

 

After all these years.... Are We now starting to say that williams is an average conductor?

 

 

 

Amazing.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Well, he's better than Herrmann!😄

[Schilkeman 963]

Conductors can and do make a difference in performance, not just rehearsal. I too, noticed some issues Williams was having with transitions in some of the pieces on the Vienna concert. He didn’t look particularly sharp, and at 90 he doesn’t have to, but hopefully all this conducting he’s doing this year will get him somewhat fit again.

 

FWIW, I have always found his concert work albums very well conducted. Not only his own pieces, but standouts like Tree Line and Javelin, take more than just beating time to get a good performance out of an orchestra. 
 

As for Hurwitz, I can’t give anyone with a Barenboim cycle on a best of list, and who is also so dismissive of HIP performance, the time of day. He sounds like an amateur. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

10 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Conductors do their work in rehearsal.

The orchestra isn't following him onstage, in most instances. It's for show.

 

5 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Once on stage, an orchestra doesn't needs a conductor except for maybe dynamics and tempo.

If they haven't been properly prepared in rehearsal, nothing a conductor can do on stage will make a difference.

 

Not true. A significant part of a conductor's work does happen during rehearsals, but that doesn't mean the conductor's job is done by the time the concert starts. Many conductors do a lot of unnecessary show conducting (which also doesn't necessarily make them bad conductors - see Bernstein for example), but that doesn't mean everything they do during a concert is redundant. They still have to work hard to keep the tempo and dynamics, handle rubatos, ritardandos, and fermatas, and often give entry cues to individual instruments or groups in tricky places. Williams does all of that in his live concerts, and clearly enjoys going beyond the limitations of a fixed film tempo especially in those pieces he's already conducted dozens of times.

 

Also don't forget the massive difference between a rehearsal situation and the actual live concert. Performers are in a different place emotionally, they're stressed, the acoustics are massively different. On the other hand there's the oft-mentioned live electricity that makes a highly charged (forgive the extended metaphor) ensemble and conductor go beyond the rehearsal interpretation. And there may very well be some or many place in a score where they didn't learn one exact interpretation during the rehearsals, but intentionally stayed flexible to give the conductor leeway during the concert.

 

11 hours ago, Fabulin said:

One thing I find curious is how, for a former Julliard pianist graduate capable of playing with his left hand over right, playing while talking, playing while not looking, etc., Williams has relatively little independence of hands while conducting. IIRC the sort of waving both hands in parallel is called 'kappellmeister' in the conducting jargon, an expression Lebrecht, for example, had used.

 

In Berlin, Williams took a handkerchief from his left pants pocket to wipe his nose several times in the middle of a piece but continued conducting with his right hand, without being distracted in the slightest. His multitasking is admirable.

 

Finally, don't forget that the Wiener Philharmoniker loved Williams's conducting and praised him for doing what a conductor should do without putting on an extravagant show like many of their big star conductors do. That's not the response of an orchestra that was confused by or uncomfortable with his conducting.

[rough cut 1,714]

Sorry if this seems irrelevant, but which country do Presto Music ship from?

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

UK

[rough cut 1,714]

Thanks. 
 

One more question, do they normally carry the limited editions from Lalaland Records and such at a good price?

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Welllll......

From personal experience as a percussionist, I did look to conductor for my entrance but the major groups are looking at the  score , not the podium.

Except for Shark- he does it all by himself😄

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 hours ago, rough cut said:

Thanks. 
 

One more question, do they normally carry the limited editions from Lalaland Records and such at a good price?

 

Nope, as far as I know the only specialty label releases you'll find on Presto are the ones that have later been released digitally.  I think you'll find Tadlow re-recordings on CD there, but I don't think LLL/Intrada are carried.

[rough cut 1,714]

OK, thanks!

[Amer 2,099]

I’ve ordered from Presto before.They have good prices.

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

12 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Nope, as far as I know the only specialty label releases you'll find on Presto are the ones that have later been released digitally.  I think you'll find Tadlow re-recordings on CD there, but I don't think LLL/Intrada are carried.

 

Varese is there, but not their limited editions.

 

7 hours ago, Amer said:

I’ve ordered from Presto before.They have good prices.

 

Europadisc is also good.

[Andy 4,123]

On 07/02/2022 at 11:48 PM, Amer said:

Did I read this correctly? They are going to print the liner notes as a booklet and issue it with subsequent pressings after this batch? They should seriously send a copy to those who bought the first edition. Although, it will be great to get a pdf too!

 

Was there ever anything to this?  They are sold out on Decca's site, and I am wondering is this a limited edition, or would waiting for a second printing pay off with a rumored extra booklet of liner notes?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Damn sold out? 

 

I was waiting for a price drop like it happened with the sony recordings... 

 

Now im not so sure 😟

[Antonb 118]

Now this is a stupid question ! Is this box set really worth shelling out for? Hang on, hear me out! I have a little list of john Williams stuff. And this is on it, but I have other stuff soon to buy like Empire of the sun. So I am prioritising things. How high should this be? 

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

I consider getting it if I can find it for a good price, but I already have the few albums that interest me the most.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

42 minutes ago, Antonb said:

Now this is a stupid question ! Is this box set really worth shelling out for? Hang on, hear me out! I have a little list of john Williams stuff. And this is on it, but I have other stuff soon to buy like Empire of the sun. So I am prioritising things. How high should this be? 

I would prioritise Empire of the Sun over the Decca set, secondary market will likely be cheaper for the decca's album than EotS

[lairdo 726]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:29 AM, lairdo said:

 

Decca tends to issue the booklets for most of their recent releases, but my experience has been that the content is always the same as the printed material. I am not sure where there is talk of a new edition with all the liner notes, so I cannot address this.

 

Also, Decca does take about a month before they put the PDF on the site for download. No idea why. Maybe piracy? Figuring that people would skip buying if they could get the liner notes digitally and find the files? Not sure. For this release, the liner notes are not very extensive. But for something like the Solti box sets, I love having them digitally. (I have the London set that is the first on the page at the moment.)

 

https://booklets.deccaclassics.com

 

 

 

 

The booklet is now on the Decca site.

This should be the direct link and start a quick download:

https://d24ku69pnn7av2.cloudfront.net/decca-classics-booklets/2022/00028948515905_JohnWilliams_Booklet.pdf

 

The material that is included in the box set is all we get in the download PDF - none of the original booklet information of the 22 releases is included.

 

Sadly, the PDF does not even have the track listings as other box sets from Decca have included. Those are only on the back of the CDs themselves. I had hoped perhaps the PDF might have had those even if the printed booklet did not.

 

 

 

 

[Andy 4,123]

7 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Damn sold out? 

 

I was waiting for a price drop like it happened with the sony recordings... 

 

Now im not so sure 😟

Well it’s sold out direct from Decca, but is available many other places.  I can’t imagine that’s all for the run, but who knows?  I think I may prioritize this one a bit higher. 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

That they say 'sold out' at decca and not 'out of  stock' seems to imply that there could be no more pressings of this.

 

Just in case i ordered it from amazon.de, it's 65,99 and it has some additional discount and shipped to spain it ammounts to 69,67€. At amazon spain it never went below 74€ so it's a good deal. 3,33€ per CD is rather cheap.. I only have the "out of this world" compilation from philips this so it is a must from me.

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

On 06/03/2022 at 4:26 PM, Hedji said:

Well it’s sold out direct from Decca, but is available many other places.  I can’t imagine that’s all for the run, but who knows?  I think I may prioritize this one a bit higher. 

Just for the record. I received my parcel today, and at the bottom of the boxset near the copyright data it says "limited edition" and a series of numbers. 

 

So it truly could be a limited run item. 

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Listened to disc 1. Some good tracks, but that Elgar piece does indeed sound a bit lifeless.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Disc 2. I'm getting this one!

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

I made my way through this set before the Berlin concert arrived, but the box is still sitting next to my desk. Only yesterday did I notice the alignment of the "CD XX" labels, and it hurts my eyes:

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

That's a perfectly reasonable alignment choice.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's a perfectly reasonable alignment choice.

 

If it were just the numbers, yes. But the shifting "CD" letters look awkward, especially because the shifts between most lines are really minor. Same aesthetic effect as when people "align" text in Word by adding some spaces at the beginning of each line.

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

7 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

If it were just the numbers, yes. But the shifting "CD" letters look awkward, especially because the shifts between most lines are really minor. Same aesthetic effect as when people "align" text in Word by adding some spaces at the beginning of each line.

 

So you rather prefer a variable space between "CD" and the number?

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

So you rather prefer a variable space between "CD" and the number?

 

The current layout and no "CD" before the numbers. Or perhaps your suggestion. Or left aligning both columns. Or something else - there's a reason why I'm not a professional designer.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I think it adds a human touch.  I can immediately see the poor designer sitting at his computer moving textboxes around in PhotoShop.  It's like when you hear chair creaks in a recording.

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

1 minute ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

The current layout and no "CD" before the numbers. Or perhaps your suggestion. Or left aligning both columns. Or something else - there's a reason why I'm not a professional designer.

 

They should have taken the alignment budget and used it on remastering instead.

[Andy 4,123]

I need this set, but I need the Sony Composer box too.  I'm trying to decide if this is truly a limited run, or if it will likely drop to $70 like the Sony set.  I'd get them both now, but, you know, money and stuff.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Hedji said:

I need this set, but I need the Sony Composer box too.  I'm trying to decide if this is truly a limited run, or if it will likely drop to $70 like the Sony set.  I'd get them both now, but, you know, money and stuff.

 

It's likely to drop in price even if its limited because it won't sell well and a big label like Decca is more likely to want to burn through inventory than a small specialty label.

[Andy 4,123]

True.  Box Sets occupy warehouse space, and need to be cleared out.

[Thor 7,495]

While I do not own this box, and am unsure if I will ever afford it while it's still widely available (I just read that it was a limited run), I've taken the opportunity to listen to some of the Pops albums I already own. I don't listen to them as much as I should, as there's quite a bit of cheese going around. Much of it reminds me of my days of listening to those LSO Plays Classic Rock albums (which, to be fair, were crucial in my path towards orchestral music and film scores). But there are certainly more "serious" gems too, like the Bernstein album.

 

I do get a giggle out of some things, though, like the cover of Aisle Seat, which boasts some GREAT film music, like E.T., CHARIOTS OF FIRE, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK and........uhm, YES GIORGIO. LOL! To be fair, it has that unique Pavarotti aspect, but in retrospect it's kinda cute how they tried to boost the importance of the then-current, now largely forgotten film.

 

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I was wondering whether I actually have anything from this box, and I do, as I recognised the By Request cover. At some point I came across the Cowboys theme which I like more than whatever I heard from the OST.

 

Carry on  

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

18 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

It's likely to drop in price even if its limited because it won't sell well and a big label like Decca is more likely to want to burn through inventory than a small specialty label.

It seems sold out at decca already...

 

But yes, maybe amazon bought a thousand...and they will sit on them until they make a clearance.

 

I shouldnt' have bought it now, but i didnt want to risk it. I know that i wanted to own it, and i would buy it later at a higher price if it came to that.

 

I will suffer if i see it at 30€ though.

 

Well now I can clear a rack full of CDRs from this and the sony set.

 

[GerateWohl 4,357]

I didn't own any of the albums from the DECCA box before, so I purchased it, and I have to say, as someone who is used to getting just first grade top quality products in context of Williams from his soundtrack and concert work recordings these CDs are kind of a disappointment. It is not necessarily the playing of the orchestra that is not top notch, it is probably the mixing. I said it before. Sometimes it sounds like one of the percussion players recorded the music with their cell phone. There are still some great records especially of Williams own music. I like listening to the Gershwin album, the Bernstein album and the second Jessy Norman album, where she is just accompanied by Williams at the piano, is really nice, but overall it is kind a bitter pill to swallow as this is not the quality that we are used to from Williams' other recordings. In a way I see these records as some kind of curiousity and maybe one day I will fall in love with them. But I cannot say at the moment that I did.

 

Apart from that , the price for the box of 70€ is more than fair and I don't regret having bought it at all.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

At the link in the opening post of this thread the box is already 20 Euros off.

 

Also, That's Entertainment is still my favorite of the Philips albums that are not focused on Williams' own compositions.  It's the strongest listen I think.

[GerateWohl 4,357]

4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Also, That's Entertainment is still my favorite of the Philips albums that are not focused on Williams' own compositions.  It's the strongest listen I think.

OK. I will give it a special listen.