Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (2022) by James Newton Howard

[Bespin 8,480]

It's so bad that Mads Mikkelsen was not cast in the first place.

 

I love Depp, but I never found his vision of the character very convincing.

 

Mikkelsen seems perfect and I'm sure he inspired JNH much better!

[BB-8 3,468]

Maybe an opportunity to resurrect the "Fawkes" theme in some way or the other.

 

But I have actually given up hope after only Hedwig's theme has been preserved by non-Williams composers so far.

[crumbs 14,306]

Don't forget Hooper quoting Quidditch Third Year

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, BB-8 said:

Maybe an opportunity to resurrect the "Fawkes" theme in some way or the other.

 

But I have actually given up hope after only Hedwig's theme has been preserved by non-Williams composers so far.

The same can be said for JW in HP3 basically 

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

There was a clip released where Howard uses Williams' Hogwarts theme. So Fawkes' theme might be in the film as well.

[BB-8 3,468]

8 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

There was a clip released where Howard uses Williams' Hogwarts theme. So Fawkes' theme might be in the film as well.

Do you have the link to that clip?

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

34 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Do you have the link to that clip?

This is the post in the Fantastic Beasts thread where I shared the video

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 singles released.

 

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/fantastic-beasts-the-secrets-of-dumbledore-music/1614463024

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

For those who have seen the film, is there any explanation as to why the change from Depp, to Mikkelsen?

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

46 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

For those who have seen the film, is there any explanation as to why the change from Depp, to Mikkelsen?

You mean in the film or why the change of actor?

[Jay 37,346]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

For those who have seen the film, is there any explanation as to why the change from Depp, to Mikkelsen?

 

The film doesn't release until April

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

For those who have seen the film, is there any explanation as to why the change from Depp, to Mikkelsen?

I haven’t seen it but I know some people who have and no. It isn’t explained. It’s treated the same way as the change of Dumbledores in Harry Potter. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

33 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

You mean in the film or why the change of actor?

I meant in the film. I'm aware of the reason why Warners let Depp go. I'm wondering how the change of actor will be dealt with, in the story.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Also. 2 tracks (Fantastic Beasts The Secrets of Dumbledore and The Room We Require) will be available on streaming platforms from April 1st. So they’re already available in any time zone where it’s that date already. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

Just now, His Royal Noelness said:

I haven’t seen it but I know some people who have and no. It isn’t explained. It’s treated the same way as the change of Dumbledore's in Harry Potter. 

On reflection, I'd say that Gambon was not a good choice for Dumbledore, but that's just me.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Really? I love Gambon as Dumbeldore. That's not a slate against Richard Harris: if his Dumbeldore does nothing for me, its probably just because its such a small part in the first couple of entries.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,514]

Agreed. Harris left, just when Dumbledore was getting interesting.

[crumbs 14,306]

The Williams references are pretty good in the Room We Require track. The arrival at Hogwarts music from HP1 makes a return.

 

The choir is a welcome addition but overall it's not leaving much of an impression. It is just two tracks, of course. I'll give the full thing a listen once it's available.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Richard Harris was never more than just fine for me in any movie I've seen.  Not amazing, not awful.  Gambon is one of the best.

[PrayodiBA 517]

The two tracks already online on Youtube, here is the title track:

 

 

Again, just like previous “title track” in the previous chapter, this one, I think, doesn’t necessarily represent main theme or “a suite” of the movie. 
But If I can guess, maybe it is a theme for the “Dumbledore Army”?  (as that theme is often mentioned in many clips before).

 

Anyway, in term of orchestration, it’s rather interesting. Somehow, in my opinion, JNH has a habit of “check-point”-ing his style in a certain movie and that style will be used until the next “checkpoint”. For example, we got “post-Dinosaur” style ( the swasbuckling Disney music), then continued with “post-Lady in the Water/ I Am Legend” style (synth and minimalistic style is more heavily used), then we got “post-Malificent” style (a return to classic, but still combined with electronic), and then finally, here, I think, a “post-Jungle Cruise” style is used (almost fully back to Disney era, but a bit lacking in “cohesiveness”). As heard in the track above, it feels as if it is a Jungle Cruise’s leftover, and it’s a very good thing, don’t get me wrong. I am so very glad he returns to classical style.

 

What do you think?

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Agreed. Harris left, just when Dumbledore was getting interesting.

Worth noting that Richard Harris died after the second film and I assume had every intention of carrying on in the role. 

[Mr. Who 919]

2 covers I made for this score:

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I listened to the 2 tracks. Title track has thematic callbacks to the first score which I appreciate it.

 

Room We require is good too - it is all very well crafted and sophisticated but doesn't have yet the soaring flight of melody. 

 

Overall these are promising and I look forward to the score.

[crocodile 8,000]

I like the two tracks. If I were to compare this preview to the previews of the first two scores this sounds definitely better.

 

Karol

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

I really like the new title track.

It's a combination of the end credits of the 1st score & the 2nd. Great stuff.

Can't wait till the entire release.

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I'm rather surprised and disappointed that neither of those tracks really does anything for me.

 

The first track sounds straight out of Jungle Cruise, and the second starts well, but goes into typical JNH tension scoring. However, I wasn't grabbed by the second score either - perhaps I'm only destined to enjoy the first score.

[Alex 2,835]

17 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Worth noting that Richard Harris died after the second film and I assume had every intention of carrying on in the role. 

 

I don't think he ever had any intention of doing the films anyway because he knew his health was in decline. His grandaughter threatened him!

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I didn't think either actor fitted the role TBH. Harris had the 'gentle' touch, but when he was required to be more forceful and threatening, that didn't come across for me, partly no doubt because he was unwell during the second film.

 

Gambon seemed an odd choice from the start for me - I haven't seen him in very much, but again, he seemed to lack a bit of gravitas for me.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

I didn't think either actor fitted the role TBH. Harris had the 'gentle' touch, but when he was required to be more forceful and threatening, that didn't come across for me, partly no doubt because he was unwell during the second film.

 

Gambon seemed an odd choice from the start for me - I haven't seen him in very much, but again, he seemed to lack a bit of gravitas for me.

I kind of with this; neither actor really managed to capture the full character as written, though both displayed different elements fairly effectively. Harris had the kindly grandfather thing down-pat, but was otherwise pretty anaemic in both films (aside from the bellowing “SILENCE” in PS). Gambon on the other hand had verve and energy and many moments of sly humour (particularly in PoA and HBP), but overall lacked the warmth Harris exuded.

 

Casting Jude Law was actually a pretty great move in this respect. From what little we saw in the last film he can hit all the marks. When I eventually watch this next one on streaming I hope to see more of it.

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I still haven't either FB films so I can't comment - AFAIK they've never been on any streaming services without having to pay - I cynically assume that certain franchises are so precious (Potter, Bond) that they can't fathom making them streamable. What happened to making the first two free (i.e. in subscription) to entice people into the cinema to see the third?

 

But yes, Harris is the 'grandfather' figure and Gambon achieves the 'mysterious' side but again, I can't imagine either actually being threatening/powerful. There's an image I got from the books and I can't immediately think of an actor who would live up to the entire range of the character.

[Holko 9,519]

Ian McKellen? But he of course got the better deal.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

All I know is, when I re-read the books, I have Gambon's voice in my head.

[MattyO 62]

I always thought Jonathan Pryce would have had the right level of presence and playfulness.

[publicist 4,643]

32 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I still haven't either FB films so I can't comment - AFAIK they've never been on any streaming services without having to pay - I cynically assume that certain franchises are so precious (Potter, Bond) that they can't fathom making them streamable. What happened to making the first two free (i.e. in subscription) to entice people into the cinema to see the third?

 

Really? Here in Germany, Amazon Prime has both, Potter and FB on steady (free) rotation since years.

[Jay 37,346]

36 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I still haven't either FB films so I can't comment - AFAIK they've never been on any streaming services without having to pay - I cynically assume that certain franchises are so precious (Potter, Bond) that they can't fathom making them streamable.

 

WB owns the Potter/Beasts franchise, so both films are on HBO Max. At least in the USA they are, I dunno about other countries that don't have HBO Max

[Richard Penna 3,684]

3 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

Really? Here in Germany, Amazon Prime has both, Potter and FB on steady (free) rotation since years.

 

It's possible the odd Potter has occasionally, but certainly not Beasts. None of them are free right now.

[Jay 37,346]

Check HBO Max

[Will 2,215]

I like the beginning of the title track and the end of "The Room We Require" a lot! The rest doesn't do much for me (except for the Williams quote of course) but perhaps it will grow on me. 

[Goldfinger 59]

Always imagined Tom Baker would have made a good Dumbledore.  He was always able to manage the right amount of warmth and creepiness while playing the Doctor.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I hope the theme (I call it the main theme, no idea if it is or not lol) I liked so much from the first film gets more play in this score.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Will said:

I like the beginning of the title track and the end of "The Room We Require" a lot! The rest doesn't do much for me (except for the Williams quote of course) but perhaps it will grow on me. 

 

Huh I'm the inverse.  I really like the second melody introduced in the middle of the title track and didn't really like the opening.  I'm still whistling that second melody two hours after first hearing it!  It's really nicely introduced and developed.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,433]

As the biggest JNH stan of the forum, I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the two tracks released so far.

 

The first one sounds like it could've been in Jungle Cruise, and that score didn't do much for me either. Which is unfortunate, as I think the first two FB movies have excellent "Main on Ends" cues. 

 

The second has its moments, but overall is a little boring.

[Richard Penna 3,684]

Another listen and the problem with The Room We Require is that after the Williams quote it's just boring. Reminded me a bit of KotCS's underscore sections which suffer a similar problem.

 

The first track for me is a bit like my issue with The BFG - it's perfectly competent JNH scoring with whimsical orchestra and nice choir... but utterly unremarkable unless you're a really big fan of this 'whimsical' style, which I'm less of these days.

 

Also, I did like Jungle Cruise because I like its themes. Having seen the film last weekend, if JNH was a bit more engaged with the second half than I was, I can see why he turned in some good stuff.

[Alex 2,835]

This sudden reprisal of previous themes just make me more weary of Warner Brothers. They had no interest in musical continuity when the original series was bringing in cash and generally well received. Now they’re nervous about how critics and fans will receive this film so they’re cranking up the nostalgia gears.

 

 

(Incidentally a Gambon/Harris hybrid would have been my perfect Dumbledore)

[Richard Penna 3,684]

I bet by # four they're not even going to bother with Fantastic Beasts in the title. It's so painfully obvious that someone has told the marketing department to downplay the association as far as possible without actually removing it from the title.

 

But having never seen the movies, I don't have an opinion of whether this is a dying franchise, or just a few die-hard Potter fans having a moan 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I bet that second theme of the title track that I pointed out a few posts above is going to grow on people

[mrbellamy 6,278]

On 31/03/2022 at 11:43 AM, Tom Guernsey said:

Worth noting that Richard Harris died after the second film and I assume had every intention of carrying on in the role. 

 

Just reminded me of an old Rosie O'Donnell clip when he was on and claimed that when he signed onto the first, his contract already locked him into all seven, which is part of why he hesitated doing it until his granddaughter made him.

 

 

 

[mstrox 6,651]

I read the books back in the day but don’t have a particular attachment to them.  For me, Gambon was an excellent Dumbledore for the movies he was in.  Richard Harris’s performance never interested me in the first two, but the first movies were so generally bland that I don’t know if that’s his deal or Columbus’s.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

Gambon's an exceptional actor who generally made a fine Dumbledore, but he was just a little erratic because of the nature of the character's changing role in the stories and also the director changes. I always felt Gambon was highly aware what movie he was in each time out as any good film actor should be, but sometimes at the expense of the Dumbledore I loved in the books. I find it interesting how he's quirkier in Azkaban, louder and more aggressive in Goblet, and in the Yates movies he kinda leveled out....it almost felt like each director had a different take on Dumbledore more than any of the other characters. 

 

The main problem I have is it's just hard to look past the simple fact that Gambon wasn't counseling little Harry in those first two. A little bit of the power is taken away there through no fault of his own. I would have liked to see him from the beginning but I also think Harris could have been interesting in the later ones.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Really enjoying those two tracks. Makes me very excited for the score. 

 

Whenever I listen to a few JNH pieces from a new score, I find myself going on a JNH binge and just following the thread of the next piece from random score he wrote until I'm high on adrenaline, jumping around the room and miming taiko drums like a madman.

 

Every time I binge JNH though, I inevitably find myself enveloped in his 3 disney animated films. Man, his Treasure Planet score is truly a masterpiece.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

10 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

Always imagined Tom Baker would have made a good Dumbledore.  He was always able to manage the right amount of warmth and creepiness while playing the Doctor.

 

Great observation! Dumbledore is very Doctor-y now that I think of it, Baker would have killed it. 

 

11 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I still haven't either FB films so I can't comment - AFAIK they've never been on any streaming services without having to pay - I cynically assume that certain franchises are so precious (Potter, Bond) that they can't fathom making them streamable. What happened to making the first two free (i.e. in subscription) to entice people into the cinema to see the third?

 

The Beasts films are available on a few subscription streamers here in Australia as well, though from memory the second one was only added in the last few months which is a bit strange now I think of it.

 

11 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

But yes, Harris is the 'grandfather' figure and Gambon achieves the 'mysterious' side but again, I can't imagine either actually being threatening/powerful. There's an image I got from the books and I can't immediately think of an actor who would live up to the entire range of the character.

 

I dunno, I feel like in OotP Gambon did a great job depicting the raw power of the character. The duel between him and Voldemort remains one of the cinematic highlights of the franchoise for me. And it was unscored!

 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

On 02/04/2022 at 3:13 AM, Alex said:

This sudden reprisal of previous themes just make me more weary of Warner Brothers. They had no interest in musical continuity when the original series was bringing in cash and generally well received. Now they’re nervous about how critics and fans will receive this film so they’re cranking up the nostalgia gears.

 

 

Not that I'm defending a mega film studio, but I think this is more indicative an overall trend of franchise films exploiting nostalgia, rather than an isolated ploy by WB in this one instance. You can almost pinpoint when all the major studio executives realised that using the "greatest hits" of a franchise's score history gives the big emotional feelings to fans, and it was around the time Marvel decided that Alan Silvestri wasn't such a bad composer after all and brought him back for The Avengers. All the big movie series are guilty of this, even the last Bond film had the John Barry nostalgia turned up to 11. The fact that movies are now being made by people who were fans of those franchises as children only worsens things.

 

It's also not helped by the fact that given the current state of the world, fans are much more likely to lap up the safe and the familiar than anything new. Taking risks is not something Hollywood can afford to do these days.