Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (2022) by James Newton Howard

[Edmilson 7,384]

This action cue is pretty great:

 

 

Loved the Newt's Heroic Theme on 1:30, followed by some cool Star Wars-like trumpets.

[LSH 968]

22 hours ago, publicist said:

Like i wrote in that other thread, it's another one of these baffling 'more is less' releases. 110 minutes of material that needs editorializing like a plant needs light. It's not enough to just whittle out tracks, you would need to edit tracks themselves. This is a good 45-50 minutes score.

 

Jesus, are we still moaning about being gifted too much music.

 

Oh grow up.

[Arpy 4,145]

The thing is @publicistthat you have the opportunity to whittle down those tracks to your heart's desire, whereas for a majority of score releases you simply wouldn't have the material to whittle down in the first place. I'd rather have the option of more music than spend years waiting for a expanded release...

[Jay 37,281]

15 hours ago, Will said:

(Presumably) unintentional Schindler's List reference.

 

Woah that is quite similar though!

[Alex 2,833]

I mean, the reality is JNH has probably just been ground down by Yates’ dreary and uninspiring direction, as well as the change in focus of the series. The first film was fresh, with new characters and locations, so understandably JNH was able to write some excellent themes. Now we’re in the third film of a series that hasn’t really decided whether it wants to focus on Dumbledore or Newt. I think JNH’s music suffers because of this because the heroic and fantastical themes he wrote for a “Fantastic Beasts” film are now a bit difficult to reprise in Dumbledore and Grindlewald story.

[Mr. Who 919]

The reprisal of material from the first 2 scores are clearly a result of producer interference. There is nothing about the story or the film that says that JNH couldn't have come up with entirely new music for those moments and I am certain that this is temp music which was used by the filmmakers and which JNH then ended up re-orchestrating slightly for the final score. JNH may have written music for those moments which went unused.

 

Overall, the score is beautiful, but after only one listen it's a bit much to take in. I also enjoyed the film a lot! 

[Drew 590]

This is officially my least favorite score of the 11 Wizarding World films (yes, I'm a Hooper fan ) Almost all of the highlights are near-verbatim reprises of material from the first two scores. The tone of the cues shifts so fast that JNH doesn't have time to develop many of his ideas. I could not remember a single new theme other than a celeste obstinato. It's mostly not bad music - well orchestrated and usually a nice atmosphere. But the huge lack of notable fresh material is quite shocking. The action cues people are gushing over are just William Ross'd versions of action material from FB 1 with new JW-like orchestrations. And for a film called "The Secrets of Dumbledore", it's absurd that Dumbledore's Theme from COG only appears once in full! I don't even want to count the theme's brief appearance in "The Promise" because that entire cue is a William Ross'd reworking of "Restoring Your Name" from COG. There is also too much boring RCP-like suspense stuff. I'm very disappointed because I thought this would be my score of the year.

The upcoming Hogwarts Legacy game BETTER have a good composer brought on! I can't take two disappointing Wizarding World scores in one year...

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

I just saw the film.

 

I have to say, I liked the score before I'd seen the film. But is really a score that benefits from having seen the film.

A lot of the more introspective, slower scoring makes more sense in the film I think.

I think it's a tremendous score amd it will probably be in my top at the end of the year.

With that said, I am a big Newton Howard & Wizarding World fan, so I might be a bit biased.

[Arpy 4,145]

I saw the film last night and it hit me that here was a major fantasy adventure film with a full-blooded and often whimsical orchestral score, abundant with themes and motifs - something of a dying breed in the age of Djawadis, Holkenborgs and Balfes one dimensional approaches.

[michael_grig 464]

Was still unsure whether I go to the cinema for it, but with such experience reports I will probably yet. The score I already thought was good (without having seen the film).

 

Although I sometimes get a little "annoyed" by Howard's constant unexpected key changes. 

 

[Mr. Who 919]

“The movie I’m working on now is Fantastic Beasts three. I’ve been composing it for eight months and rewritten a good part of it many times and I agree with you that exposure and immersion in a movie over a long period of time affords you a different kind of opportunity and you can rethink it, redo it, but it’s very painful sometimes.Right now I’m working with David Yates. He always steers me one way- the most critical thing for him is story, and he’s absolutely right. So at a certain point the music, unless it’s serving the story, it doesn’t matter how good the music is."

 

“When I do the third one, I’m bringing back themes. I’m stating the themes that are successful in the first two more often than I did before, because people, at least the filmmakers that I’m with and I’m presuming the community at large, will have some amount of recognition of the themes a third time around, and that becomes a valuable tool in storytelling. David Yates has been very happy to have some scenes be almost direct moments from the first movies, but I’d say, eighty percent of it is all new. But some things just work. The tone was really special, and it really worked, and we want to repeat that again.”

 

These 2 quotes by JNH explain the amount of "repurposed" material from the first 2 scores.

[crumbs 14,299]

You can definitely read between the lines in those quotes, yes.

[Mr. Who 919]

14 minutes ago, crumbs said:

You can definitely read between the lines in those quotes, yes.

Exactly. Studio interference in the score is really unfortunate.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

Eight months feels like a very long time for composing one score. At least there's no possible suggestion of him having composed it in a rush.

 

From my single listen I didn't get that much of a sense of reused material, but my lack of familiarity with the second score may create some ignorance there.

[Drew 590]

JNH’s original cues before the temp track rewrites are now at the top of my unobtainium wishlist.

[Mr. Who 919]

8 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Eight months feels like a very long time for composing one score. At least there's no possible suggestion of him having composed it in a rush.

 

From my single listen I didn't get that much of a sense of reused material, but my lack of familiarity with the second score may create some ignorance there.

Most of the tracking happens in the second half of the album/film and there is probably more straight up tracking from the first score than the second (whose material is generally not really tracked but developed in new ways), especially from this cue: 

 

 

There is quite a lot from the second score as well. For instance the track The Promise starts with the new Qilin theme but after that it's basically a shortened version of Restoring Your Name from the second score.

 

However there are so many instances in this score where JNH uses the previous themes and ideas in great new ways so I may be overstating the tracking but it's the fact that some very big scenes could have had completely new music that is a shame. A great example of this is the cue Countersight where JNH uses so many different themes in new ways, and I especially love the last part where Dumbledore's Quirky theme from the second score (the theme is sadly unreleased but you can hear it in the film and it can be ripped without too much sfx) is played by the brass!

 

The new score is really great but has a different character than the first 2, which was unexpected and the word I would use to describe it is dreamy, and some influences would be JNH's Lady in the Water for instance which also has this kind of dreamy atmosphere and sound.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

On 09/04/2022 at 7:05 AM, Arpy said:

The thing is @publicistthat you have the opportunity to whittle down those tracks to your heart's desire, whereas for a majority of score releases you simply wouldn't have the material to whittle down in the first place. I'd rather have the option of more music than spend years waiting for a expanded release...

 

I understand the appeal of an artful soundtrack album experience and lamenting the loss of that. It's not something I ever really dug into myself, I've always been more about the film when appreciating the complete musical work and then just loving my favorite cues and tracks for listening. I rarely get into an OST as its own special thing and I am mostly happy to be living in this age of playlists and audio editing where I can curate the stuff I care about. I can't even blame it on iTunes because when I had a portable CD player I preferred skipping around after the first listen too.

 

I also definitely get that it's plainly annoying to blast through 90 minutes of a soundtrack that's invariably better for its own sake at half the length, but this is the problem with everything. Every modern platform is equipped for diarrhea and they just want all of our time. We've all found ourselves excited to drink up when it suits us. I'm glad that statistically I'm much more likely these days to find the usual one cue I liked most out of a movie.

 

Anyway this was pretty good, 1 >> 2 > 3

[Richard Penna 3,669]

I've just finished a second listen through, and while it's definitely a bit of a handful in one sitting, there's lots of interesting material in here.

 

What surprises me most is how JNH manages to create this score with hardly any references to any of his themes from the the first score - the vast majority is original material (or copied from the second score, which won't bother me), which does vary a tad in its interest, but unlike Grindelwald which I gave another stab at this weekend and turned off after not very long, this has consistently sustain pretty good interest.

[Mr. Who 919]

15 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I've just finished a second listen through, and while it's definitely a bit of a handful in one sitting, there's lots of interesting material in here.

 

What surprises me most is how JNH manages to create this score with hardly any references to any of his themes from the the first score - the vast majority is original material (or copied from the second score, which won't bother me), which does vary a tad in its interest, but unlike Grindelwald which I gave another stab at this weekend and turned off after not very long, this has consistently sustain pretty good interest.

That's not correct IMO as there are loads of references to material from the first score but some of them are subtle but just off the top off my head, themes and motifs for the beasts from the first score appear in the score and almost all motifs and themes for Credence are used (and get some really interesting development, especially the Obscures B (sad) theme and even including the Credence Ticking motif). Also the Goodbye theme, Jacob's themes, Queenie & Jacob's Separation theme (which even gets a new B section in this score (track 7 for instance). Then, also the music when they escape MACUSA in the first film is used a lot during the Bhutan chase and action scenes (last third of the score mainly).

 

Aside from the tracking, which was not JNH's decision, he really used the previous themes well and came up with interesting developments alongside the new themes!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Forget where it was but enjoyed him reprising this little melody, a fleeting favorite 

 

 

[Edmilson 7,384]

Just listened to the entire album for the second time.

 

The climax, which goes from about A Full Heart to The Promise, is pretty great. Some decent emotional material in these cues. 

 

Problem is, to get there, you still need to hear a lot of boring or uninspired cues. 

 

That said, I think I'll have a new appreciation for the score when I watch the movie. Because of the score, now I'm considering watching this in theaters next week, if only to see how it works in context. In terms of marketing the movie, JNH's music was more effective to me than any trailer.

[LSH 968]

6 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

Forget where it was but enjoyed him reprising this little melody, a fleeting favorite 

 

 

 

Haha, lovely, that is one of those melodies that has JNH written all over it.

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

I think one of the best cues on the album is 'The Vote'. I love Grindelwald's theme at 3-quarters in.

 

As for Case Chaos. The beginning (0:00-0:29) is in the film replaced by Hedwig's Theme/The Quidditch Match. I actually really like what Howard composed for this scene. And personally would've kept it.

But I understand why they chose to track a bit of music from The Quidditch Match in there.

[Mr. Who 919]

34 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I think one of the best cues on the album is 'The Vote'. I love Grindelwald's theme at 3-quarters in.

 

As for Case Chaos. The beginning (0:00-0:29) is in the film replaced by Hedwig's Theme/The Quidditch Match. I actually really like what Howard composed for this scene. And personally would've kept it.

But I understand why they chose to track a bit of music from The Quidditch Match in there.

The Vote is indeed a great cue and I also think that He Sought to Kill, I sought to Protect is a real highlight, but I thought that the tracked John Williams material in Bhutan was really out of place and took me out of the movie as it made no sense.
 

To me the JW tracking only works during the logos or in Hogwarts scenes.

[crocodile 7,983]

Pressed CD will be available in limited quantities from Rambling Records later this month.

 

Karol

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

Given this a couple of listens so far but have to admit to not really identifying the themes particularly, but then it doesn't help that I don't really remember the main theme until it plays and it jobs my memory! Having said that, seems more enjoyable than some of the earlier descriptions implied although it never really turns into the kind of stirring fantasy score that perhaps one might have wanted. Chances of me seeing this film are slim as I thought the first was tolerable and the second terrible. I guess I wanted it to be more of a fun adventure movie about, you know, finding fantastic beasts as the core element, with bits of pre-Potter story thrown in, not Harry Potter and the Fascist Wizards of Poorly Rendered Nazi Allegory... plus the odd beast.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

24 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Pressed CD will be available in limited quantities from Rambling Records later this month.

 

Karol

Damn that the second time this year that Warner do this for a major score

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

10 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Given this a couple of listens so far but have to admit to not really identifying the themes particularly, but then it doesn't help that I don't really remember the main theme until it plays and it jobs my memory! Having said that, seems more enjoyable than some of the earlier descriptions implied although it never really turns into the kind of stirring fantasy score that perhaps one might have wanted. Chances of me seeing this film are slim as I thought the first was tolerable and the second terrible. I guess I wanted it to be more of a fun adventure movie about, you know, finding fantastic beasts as the core element, with bits of pre-Potter story thrown in, not Harry Potter and the Fascist Wizards of Poorly Rendered Nazi Allegory... plus the odd beast.

And without wishing to add fuel to the fire of the length of album debate, I must admit that I quite liked the way the first score was presented, a full single disc version and then special edition with a second disc of extra tracks. OK, I admit that's annoying for anyone listening on CD who wants to hear the full thing in order, but if you have iTunes or similar then you can turn the full thing into a playlist (as I did). Danny Elfman has produced a few of his recent scores like that. It feels like a nice compromise. FB3 definitely feels a touch long, I'm sure I'd have been happy with 70/80 minutes plus some optional extras.

[crocodile 7,983]

5 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

Damn that the second time this year that Warner do this for a major score

They don't release any CDs normally anymore. It has been their common practice for a couple of years now.

 

Karol

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

Yeah but there where still some major score getting pressed released, like Fantastic Beasts 2, GoT: Season VIII, Tenet.

But now I think of it, most of them were pre-covid release, so it must have slipped my attention

[crocodile 7,983]

In any case, I am not quite sure I will invest in the CD this time. I already have a high resolution download and took me two sittings to get through the first half of the album. I liked the first score, the second one I listened to exactly 3 times in 3 years and can't so far make it through the third one. Seems like it would be a waste of money. The only reason to get this would be for completeness' sake. Doesn't seem worth 40-50 quid.

 

Karol

[Richard Penna 3,669]

I'll buy a download of this no doubt - I would only buy a CD if it worked out cheaper (the sole reason I ever buy 'regular' releases on CD now).

 

It's definitely long, but I find that I can jump in at some point and listen and there's always something to enjoy.

[publicist 4,643]

On 09/04/2022 at 2:05 PM, Arpy said:

The thing is @publicistthat you have the opportunity to whittle down those tracks to your heart's desire, whereas for a majority of score releases you simply wouldn't have the material to whittle down in the first place. I'd rather have the option of more music than spend years waiting for a expanded release...

 

I see it the other way around. I hate to do this stuff and it ruins my enjoyment of the score being exposed to so much material that isn't up to par.

 

It's on the other hand amusing to see the all this handwringing because of a message board commentary - your fraction benefits from these ridiculous session dumps since many years now. You have won. Congrats and all.

[Drew 590]

Crimes of Grindelwald is an excellent score. Not sure how people here like Secrets of Dumbledore better. 

[Mr. Who 919]

58 minutes ago, Drew said:

Crimes of Grindelwald is an excellent score. Not sure how people here like Secrets of Dumbledore better. 

I like the Secrets of Dumbledore score but Crimes of Grindelwald is my favourite JNH score.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

“Wands to the Earth” is a top-5 JNH cue. Haven’t yet listened to SoD, but if the same people disliking it here are those that disliked CoG, then I think I shall like it plenty.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

I've been looking for this on digital vendors and boy has 7Digital broken their search facility.

 

I eventually found it by going via JNH's listing - it doesn't show up under any relevant criteria: https://uk.7digital.com/artist/james-newton-howard-(2)/release/fantastic-beasts-the-secrets-of-dumbledore-original-motion-picture-soundtrack-21175938

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

Finally get to listen to it entierly well it's certainly not as good as the two previous entry but it has lots of great moments (Countersight, The Room We Require and Case Chaos on the top of it). Glad they released most of the score, I thought it flows pretty well

[Edmilson 7,384]

Question to fellow JNH fans: which FB score has the best dramatic climax? The first one (with "He's Listening To You Tina", "Relieve Him of His Wand / Newt Releases The Thunderbird"), the second ("Spread the Word", "Wands into Earth") or the third ("He Sought to Kill, I Sought to Protect", "I Was Never Your Enemy")?

 

Personally, I love the epicness of Crimes of Grindelwald's climax, but recently He Sought to Kill and I Was Never Your Enemy have been grown a lot on me (and will grow even more once I see the movie).

[Mr. Who 919]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Question to fellow JNH fans: which FB score has the best dramatic climax? The first one (with "He's Listening To You Tina", "Relieve Him of His Wand / Newt Releases The Thunderbird"), the second ("Spread the Word", "Wands into Earth") or the third ("He Sought to Kill, I Sought to Protect", "I Was Never Your Enemy")?

 

Personally, I love the epicness of Crimes of Grindelwald's climax, but recently He Sought to Kill and I Was Never Your Enemy have been grown a lot on me (and will grow even more once I see the movie).

It’s hard to say as they’re all great but I would say that the second score’s climax is my favorute.
 

I don’t know the third one that we’ll yet though after only a few listens and he sought to kill, I sought to protect is really good, including the thematic approach!

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

That's a tough question.

 

I remember listening to all of them for the first time and really being blown away by them all.

I think each of them has it's of thing that makes them so great.

 

From the 1st score it's about a revelation with Grindelwald's theme, then the goreous Thunderbird theme with the love theme from Jacob & Queenie really tugging at the heartstrings.

From the 2nd score I remember very well that when the trumpets strated in Wands Into The Earth I had goosebumps, it was sooo good. This one is more about power and loss.

And the 3rd climax is all about romance and love. And I think you can really hear that in the music. It perfectly tells you the tragic love that Dumbledore feels for Grindelwald.

 

At this moment I would pick the 2nd score. But in a few weeks it might be the 1st or 3rd. I love them all

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

Although I would not qualify myself as a JNH fan, even though I'm on the path to, I find that the CoG has the best climax, perfect from beginning to the end

[bollemanneke 3,337]

On 08/04/2022 at 8:53 PM, Smaug The Iron said:

Just saw the film, there are two unreleased Williams material, one big Hedwig's Theme appearance and some rerecorded parts of the Quidditch match including Nimbus 2000 but it is either an Insert or tracked because the original Version you can here in the Case Chase between 00.00-00.32.

How very typical.

[Edmilson 7,384]

I'm really starting to consider the idea of watching this movie in theaters next weekend. I want so badly to see how James' music works in context and if I'll have a better appreciation of it knowing the context... 

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

5 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I'm really starting to consider the idea of watching this movie in theaters next weekend. I want so badly to see how James' music works in context and if I'll have a better appreciation of it knowing the context... 

I did

[Mr. Who 919]

7 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I'm really starting to consider the idea of watching this movie in theaters next weekend. I want so badly to see how James' music works in context and if I'll have a better appreciation of it knowing the context... 

The movie is great fun.

[Arpy 4,145]

Is this going to get a proper cd release?

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

41 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Is this going to get a proper cd release?

As Karol said: "Pressed CD will be available in limited quantities from Rambling Records later this month."

[Jay 37,281]

5 hours ago, Arpy said:

Is this going to get a proper cd release?

 

On 11/04/2022 at 5:28 AM, crocodile said:

Pressed CD will be available in limited quantities from Rambling Records later this month.

 

Karol

 

[BB-8 3,461]

No Fawkes theme.