Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (2022) by James Newton Howard

[Smaug The Iron 515]

21 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

No Fawkes theme.

Well the Phoenix never really had much focus in the film to be honest. It was there and we learn whay but I never felt there was a good moment for Fawkes theme to appear. It never had a moment lik in Chamber of Secrets or at the end of Half Blood Prince. 

[Richard Penna 3,687]

There's barely enough of Fawkes in CoS to justify a theme, really.

 

It's more that Williams decided to make a great concert piece out of his melody which really made it feel more involved with the story than it really is.

[LSH 968]

It is a lovely theme though. 

[Richard Penna 3,687]

It's a wonderful theme, I just don't think the film was particularly calling for it  Another case of the music being more thematically developed than the film needed.

[King Mark 3,631]

Don't listen to this music it's transphobic!

[Richard Penna 3,687]

[King Mark 3,631]

I was just being cynical.

 

Edit: To HunterTech: I certainly hope we haven't reached a point where a joke can get you a "mod warning", even if it vaguely alludes to some kind of topic were not supposed to be discussing. 

 

[HunterTech 993]

The people railing against Rowling still praise the cast and crew involved with these movies, since they know full well they're ultimately just doing the jobs they were hired to do.

 

If anything, Fantastic Beasts is more likely to fail because people got fed up with where the franchise was heading after the last movie, so maybe quiet down before the moderators tell you to stop bringing up topics that violate the site rules.

[mstrox 6,651]

I wonder if what is reportedly essentially

Spoiler

Tina’s disappearance from the movie (series?)

 
is at all related to the actress publicly disagreeing with the series creator on her recent stances.

[HunterTech 993]

In that case, it'll make the potential Cursed Child movie even less likely, given Emma Watson would've indirectly done the same thing just recently. By that point, WB would have to steal the franchise for themselves, since they know full well that'd be a better money maker than what they currently have.

[Bespin 8,480]

Isn’t this music too gay?

 

Maybe JNH is now problematic.

[Bespin 8,480]

20 hours ago, Bespin said:

Isn’t this music too gay?

 

Maybe JNH is now problematic.

 

Ok that was only a joke.

‘Fantastic Beasts 3’ Gay Dialogue Removed in China

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/fantastic-beasts-3-gay-dialogue-removed-warner-bros-explains-1235230373/

 

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

On 13/4/2022 at 1:42 PM, Richard Penna said:

It's a wonderful theme, I just don't think the film was particularly calling for it  Another case of the music being more thematically developed than the film needed.

Agree with the sentiment. It is a pointless theme. Completely unnecessary. But a really great theme. Though also totally unsuited for its purpose.

 

 Maybe wb thought that hedwigs theme was such a great single and promotional tool for the film that they asked Williams if he could create another single for the second film. Williams obliged , but his theme neither suits the character nor works particularly well for the function it was designed.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Review on my new website!

 

 

[Knight of Ren 789]

I just watched the movie, and while it's a bit chaotic and absurd, it's a step up from its predecessor, which was a complete mess. There were some great scenes in this and while none of this movies are on par with the Harry Potter movies, at least they offer some fun entertainment, even if the story is a bit convoluted and nonsensical.

 

As for the music, after having listened to the album just once in full, I think that most of the score is in here, except for some small snippets (the most significant being another statement of Dumbledore's theme), and some rearranged Williams music. For some parts of it, especially in the middle section, it feels like it reutilizes many passages of the two previous scores, like in Assassin!, The Escape, The Promise or Young Man's Magic, where entire sections are lifted and sometimes play over scenes not related to what is playing, like in a couple of scenes in the German Ministry of Magic, where Credence ticking motif plays, without being in there.

 

This was a bit of a partial letdown, as it felt somewhat lazy in those sections, that could have benefited from a completely new piece of music. However, this is a small complaint, in an otherwise quite great score, full of emotion, reprises of old themes, and some new melodies worth mentioning. I haven't quite grasped what all the new themes are and what they mean, but the third act of the movie is scored beutifully by Howard, being The Twin and He Sought to Kill, I Sought to Protect both great highlights rivaling the climax of Crimes of Grindelwald, Wands Into the Earth, which is one of my favorite Howard pieces ever.

 

Apparently the franchise future depends on how well this movie works on the box office, and honestly, it would be a shame to have this franchise finish in here, since I would love to hear at least 2 more scores by Howard developing these themes and creating some new ones, because I think, despite the difficulty of sometimes discovering what each theme means and represents, that he has created a fantastic musical universe, full of his personal trademarks, with a vast catalogue of motifs, which I absolutely love, despite the flaws.

[Bespin 8,480]

At the end it's very annoying to see Eddie Redmayne playing an autist, movie after movie.

[Tallguy 3,386]

I have to say that I enjoyed the movie. But Newt seemed to get the Boba Fett in his own movie once (an admittedly terrific) Dumbledoor took the main stage.

 

The score was great, but as soon as he hit the Potter theme all the hairs went up. I hate being that easy but it IS a William's theme.

[Knight of Ren 789]

At least here I felt that Newt had more presence than on the previous movie where he just sort of popped around from time to time, without being really relevant to what was happening.

 

As for the music, it's true that Williams music is just something else, but I don't really like when they just track it in a scene with no purpose other than nostalgia. I think that works better when Howard himself rearranges the themes with his own style like, for example in The Room of Requirements.

[saulocf 79]

I wish the mission of the movie was to actually find the beast, instead of having Newt finding it right in the beginning. Having him and his group racing to find it before Credance's group jumping from adventurous setpieces one after the othe, and then, the twin aspect be a twist in the third act. Would have made the movie much better and much more in line with the title of the franchise.

[Bespin 8,480]

The album is available to order in CDR format... euh?

[Jay 37,355]

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

The album is available to order in CDR format... euh?

 

On 11/04/2022 at 5:28 AM, crocodile said:

Pressed CD will be available in limited quantities from Rambling Records later this month.

 

Karol

 

[Mr. Who 919]

It's also available as a made to order CD on Amazon.

[Jay 37,355]

Made To Order CD = CDR

[Bespin 8,480]

Ok let me know about it.

[Knight of Ren 789]

Clemensen's review is up, and his write up is quite insightful and helps to clarify some of the thematic asociations, especially with the new themes, which was giving me some trouble to figure out by myself.

 

https://www.filmtracks.com/titles/secrets_dumbledore.html

 

I sometimes disagree with his way of reviewing certain scores (mostly the more-modern sounding scores), but he is definetly one of the few out there who writes thoughtful and detailed reviews which help you understand better how a score is constrcuted, and therefore being able to enjoy it a bit more, or at least that's how I percieve it.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Most of his reviews are exceptionally detailed and I occasionally use them if I want to identify thematic usage in a score that I enjoy.

 

The two things I wish he would stop doing are degrading his rating based on things that aren't really related to the score (in this case, the lack of an end credits piece), and blatantly treating RCP or non-orchestral scores differently.

 

Funny that he complains about key cues left off a release of this length!

[Knight of Ren 789]

Yeah, that's what sometimes bothers me the most. Most of the times when there is some deviation from "classical orchestral" music and it's a more synthetic or experimental score, he tends to dismiss it, which is a shame, because it would be nice to read reviews as detailed as the ones he writes for more conventional scores.

 

But I agree that his reviews have helped me discover some new scores with his detailed thematic insight, which really makes it easier to get into a new score.

[Richard Penna 3,687]

Aside from his obvious contempt for Zimmer and co, he doesn't care for Thomas Newman's 00s period of experimentation, nor anything which takes a more electronic approach.

 

The two he completely trashed, I think unreasonably, were Erin Brockovich and The Social Network. Both of those are filled with very strange sounds and from what I remember, no orchestra in sight. But both of them are completely appropriate for the films. Clemmenson just can't handle scoring approaches that aren't traditional; I think it's no more complicated than that.

 

But yes, his thematic analysis is outstanding.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I don’t think that’s a fair charge. I think he gave a rave review to Tron legacy, a score which is on the electronic spectrum.

 

i agree with his worldview fundamentally in the sense that I do think a film should be scored rather have suites applied like wallpaper.

[igger6 894]

Hot take: Howard's main theme for this franchise (the tinkly magical one in "Tina Takes Newt In" from the first score) is every bit as vivid an evocation of a secret, whimsical, magical world as "Hedwig's Theme," which itself is on my Mount Rushmore of Williams themes.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I like it a lot, but I can't say it's on the same level as Hedwig.  I do wish he used it like it was the main theme though instead of sprinkling it like more of an easter egg in the scores.

[Edmilson 7,439]

On 27/04/2022 at 6:03 AM, TheUlyssesian said:

i agree with his worldview fundamentally in the sense that I do think a film should be scored rather have suites applied like wallpaper.

This.

 

Unfortunately, many "hot" and "trendy" directors these days tend to think exact the opposite. Just look at Nolan and Villeneuve.

[igger6 894]

7 hours ago, Stu said:

I do wish he used it like it was the main theme though instead of sprinkling it like more of an easter egg in the scores.

That’s probably a good point. I can’t say for sure because I realized after the first movie that these amazing scores were the limit of my interest in this sub-franchise, and I haven’t seen the sequels. But I’m sure you’re right. 

[Edmilson 7,439]

Now that I finally watched the movie, I did managed to pick some new themes JNH wrote for the third movie.

 

For example, I'm a big fan of his qilin theme. Most of the movie's plot revolves around that beast, so he wrote a theme for strings and heavenly choir that appears for the first time when Newt finds it at the beginning of the movie:

 

 

Then it reappears when they explain to Jacob what powers a qilin have:

 

 

And again by the movie's climax, when the real qilin reappears and stops Grindelwald's plan, but this time performed by the full choir and not just boy soprano:

 

 

After the final duel, the theme returns, but this time played on piano instead of choir:

 

 

There's also a new motif related to Dumbledore, specifically the tragedies in his past and his complicated relationships with Grindelwald and his silblings. 

 

It first appears right at the beginning of the movie while Dumbledore is going to meet Grindelwald:

 

 

And again when Dumbledore explains the tragic fate of Ariana to Newt:

 

 

Another interesting thing: the music that plays when Dumbledore explains that Ariana was an obscurial (here - 1:21 to 1:55) is a little similar to the cue that plays when Jacob finds out what an obscurial is on the first movie:

 

 

If anyone discovers some interesting connections between the three scores and want to post them here, it'll be great.

[artguy360 1,843]

Although I personally don't care much for these films or their scores, I do appreciate that JNH was able to bring his own musical language to the Harry Potter world. He does successfully capture a sense of magic in his scores, with a very different sound that JW's scores.

[Knight of Ren 789]

That qilin theme is probably my favorite bit of music from the new score, and all of the times it appears it's just beautiful, and classic Newton Howard.

 

I love that you can listen to this scores and see that they belong to the world Harry Potter in terms of music, while you can clearly hear JNH's own voice almost everywhere. I mean, all of the themes of this saga sound very mcuh in his own style, but they retain the kind of intangible magic that made Williams Potter scores so great. Too bad the movies haven't been on par with Howard's scores in terms of quality.

[crocodile 8,012]

Decided to get the Japanese pressed CD to complete my collection.

 

 

Karol

 

[publicist 4,643]

13 hours ago, crocodile said:

Decided to get the Japanese pressed CD to complete my collection.

 

 

As much as i tried, i couldn't bring myself keeping (or rather buying) even one of the cues. I just deleted the Spotify playlist. It's a lame duck of a score and after JNH's apparent enthusiasm for the first movie it's a shame how it all turned to shit after that.

[Anthony 572]

The only music I listen to from all 3 of these films is the end titles. That's sufficient.

[bollemanneke 3,346]

I bought the first deluxe set and movie. Won't buy anything else.

[crocodile 8,012]

On 22/07/2022 at 7:36 AM, publicist said:

 

As much as i tried, i couldn't bring myself keeping (or rather buying) even one of the cues. I just deleted the Spotify playlist. It's a lame duck of a score and after JNH's apparent enthusiasm for the first movie it's a shame how it all turned to shit after that.

It is, in the grand scheme of things, bit of a letdown, sure. But I start to appreciate the restraint more now with repeat listens. If anything, from craft perspective this is still better than most stuff these days. 

 

Karol