James Horner's GLORY (1989) - NEW! 2021 2-CD Expanded Edition from La-La Land Records

[NL197 368]

Mine's at the airport. Probably going through 2-week quarantine

 

[OneBuckFilms 319]

The film cues are sublime. Excellent release.

[NL197 368]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:22 AM, Tallguy said:

@NL197 don't make me miss Person of Interest more than I already do.

gawddamn right. What an awesome show that was. Essentially Batman without the mask. 

[Joe Brausam 214]

This is a fantastic release, and I’ve enjoyed listening while reading along with Omni’s publication as well!  The film version cues are interesting as well - with the inclusion of them there really is a lot of new music on this release.  Very well done.  And the sound quality of the film score truly adds a lot of clarity to the individual colors in the music.  The OST presentation definitely sounds restored but it steers closer to the mixing of the original album, which is appropriate.

[NL197 368]

James Island (Restored)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sx8i3wBYYH0MINdGrhVJY3Fh5FbJnpkJ/view?usp=sharing

 

Promise Me (Restored)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YjlAtlQqy7d2rkn80lIphE6cEAtAbRaD/view?usp=sharing

[Jay 37,287]

Neil has posted an interesting story on FSM that reveals that actual film take of "Worth A Life" was recorded at a pickup session whose elements didn't turn up, so they included the 3 circled takes from the original sessions and put the one closest to the film take in the main program. 

 

Also recorded at this late pick-up session was one cue that was luckily on the OST, so they had to use the album master for that track.

 

Quote

Here's a little history on "Glory." We started work on it in 2017 with a set of DATs that didn't have slates. With so many unused cues we sought out the digital multi-tracks. Despite the original album saying it was from analog tapes we never found any. On top of that, I suspect the methodology was to record 24-track analog and mix on 32-track digital. That lines up with our tapes and we wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel anyway, since "Glory" sounds so fantastic so having the digital was fine.

 

Anyway, with the digital multi-track we had slates and I could ID the unused cues. Great, wonderful! However, even with all of these tapes, there was one cue that was released on the OST that was not on our session DAT and was not on our multi-track mix reels. We did an extensive search at the studio and nothing turned up.

 

My guess is there was a pick-up session. I checked with the AFM, but they didn't have a list of recording dates. I have a copy of a 20+ year old fax they sent me with one date on it that corresponded with the reels we did have, so that wasn't much help. As an aside, the dates in the booklet are derived from the multi-track reels we used.

 

For the cue we didn't have any recordings of we used the album master. For "Worth A Life" we present the three circled takes from the digital multi-track with the one that's closest to what's heard in the film in the main program.

 

I hope you can see we searched high and low on this project for a few years. Sometimes weird things happen. And you know what else? I'm in the middle of another project right now and the exact same thing has happened. I have multiple tapes with the entire score except one cue which again was on the OST, thank goodness.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

Neil

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=145053&forumID=1&archive=0

 

I wonder if it is possible to figure out which cue is the one they pulled from the album master.  I also wonder why Neil chose not to just name which cue it was in his post.

[crumbs 14,300]

44 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wonder if it is possible to figure out which cue is the one they pulled from the album master.  I also wonder why Neil chose not to just name which cue it was in his post.

 

Should be identifiable via a spectogram comparison...

[Jay 37,287]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:22 AM, Joe Brausam said:

I’ve enjoyed listening while reading along with Omni’s publication as well! 

 

Oh, fun!  Maybe you can answer some questions for me then?

 

1 - The Omni book lists an "After Antietam", "After Antietam (Revised)", and "After Antietam ("Alternate').  Which of those lines up with LLL track 1-02 "After Antietam (Film Version)" and which lines up with OST track 2 "After Antietam"?  And what is different about the 3rd version that's in the book?

 

2 - The Omni book has "Flashback" and "Flashback (Original Version)".  The LLL set has "Flashback", "Flashback (Alternate No. 1)" and "Flashback (Alternate No. 2)".  Which lines up with which?

 

3 - The Omni book cue "Fife and Drums" lines up with LLL track 1-22 "Jefferson and Liberty" while the Omni book cue "Jefferson and Liberty" lines up with both LLL track 1-05 "Jefferson and Liberty (Full Version)" and LLL track 1-24 "Jefferson and Liberty (Film Mix)".... Is that all correct?

 

4 - The Omni book has two cues - "54th Regiment (Film Version)" and "54th Regiment (Revised)".  Are these on the LLL set?  Maybe as "Worth A Life", since the Omni book has no cue by that name?

 

Thanks!

[Joe Brausam 214]

On 20/09/2021 at 12:00 PM, Jay said:

 

Oh, fun!  Maybe you can answer some questions for me then?

 

1 - The Omni book lists an "After Antietam", "After Antietam (Revised)", and "After Antietam ("Alternate').  Which of those lines up with LLL track 1-02 "After Antietam (Film Version)" and which lines up with OST track 2 "After Antietam"?  And what is different about the 3rd version that's in the book?

 

2 - The Omni book has "Flashback" and "Flashback (Original Version)".  The LLL set has "Flashback", "Flashback (Alternate No. 1)" and "Flashback (Alternate No. 2)".  Which lines up with which?

 

3 - The Omni book cue "Fife and Drums" lines up with LLL track 1-22 "Jefferson and Liberty" while the Omni book cue "Jefferson and Liberty" lines up with both LLL track 1-05 "Jefferson and Liberty (Full Version)" and LLL track 1-24 "Jefferson and Liberty (Film Mix)".... Is that all correct?

 

4 - The Omni book has two cues - "54th Regiment (Film Version)" and "54th Regiment (Revised)".  Are these on the LLL set?  Maybe as "Worth A Life", since the Omni book has no cue by that name?

 

Thanks!

No problem!

 

1 - The actual Omni book only has two complete versions of "After Antietam", I see what they show on their site, but this is the breakdown in the book and what it all means:

• 1M2R Intro (Original) - The "R" leads me to this this is what they meant on their site as "After Antietam (Revised)".  This is simply an alternate introduction to the cue "After Antietam" and only lasts for 6 bars.  It features the "Reflection Motif" as Omni names it, a rising and falling figure in the strings.  This theme itself can be identified at 1:17 in track 2 on the LLL presentation, just for reference.  This cue is unused and not in any recording we have.  That leads us to the next cue....
• 1M2 After Antietam (With Film Intro) - This is the one that lines up with the recording on track 2 of the LLL film presentation.  It features a new 6 bar introduction that replaced 1M2R.  Those 6 bars feature no melody, but the two chords in it are based on the first two notes of the "Reflection Motif".  This 6 bar intro is NOT on the LLL disc, I don't know if it's in the film or not.  The LLL presentation (and the OST) start on bar 7 of this cue, when the choir enters.  Other than missing the 6 bar intro, the LLL matches this cue exactly.
• 1M2ALT After Antietam - This is a shortened version of 1M2, which is 52 bars.  1M2ALT is only 13 bars and would have faded out earlier.  Its instrumentation is different - pulled back and scored for a smaller ensemble, 2 clarinets, trumpet solo, timpani, percussion, boys and men's choir.  The trumpet/bugle calls in this version different from the ones we hear in 1M2.

It is also worth noting that the OST version of "After Antietam" does not appear in the Omni book, so there is indeed another version yet.  The OST features different trumpet calls that don't appear in any version in the book and different rhythms in the melody.

 

2 - The Omni book has "1M4R Flashback (Film Version)" and "1M4 Flashback Version 2".

• "1M4R Flashback (Film Version)" - This is written as the first 12 bars of "Drei Klavierstücke" (disc 1, track 21).  The cue we hear on track 3 of the album overlays for 3 bars starting in bar 10 before continuing along on its own, the source music fading out.  The source music returns during the final bar of the chorus, so it overlays with the last bar of the track.
• "1M4 Flashback Version 2" - This matches Disc 2, Track 14 "Flashback Alternate 1".  The other alternate is not featured in the book.

3 - You are correct on how that lines up, yes.  The only difference is the Film Mix in LLL 1-24 does not include the orchestra entrance, and gradually fades out the field drums.

 

4 - Okay, so "54th Regiment" is partially source music and partially "Worth a Life".  "Hoist the Flag", LLL 1-25, is present throughout the cue, albeit with repeated phrases that are not represented in the written music for "54th Regiment".  "Worth a Life" overlays with the "Hoist the Flag" tune, and so it actually shares slate numbers.  The contents on the Omni website are listed differently than they are in the book, "Worth a Life" is actually the "Parade Overlays" listed on the site. 

This is complicated and a bit of a mess...so I'm going to just explain what we have on the CD first then follow up with what's in the book:

 

• LLL 1-10 "Worth a Life" - This appears in the Omni book as "6M2 Worth a Life Version 2".
• LLL 2-15 "Worth a Life (Alternate 1)" - This appears in the Omni book as "6M2 Worth a Life Version 1 (Parade Overlay)"
• LLL 2-17 "Worth a Life (Alternate 2)" - This appears in the Omni book as "6M2 Worth a Life Version 2".  It seems to be musically the same as LLL 1-10, so any differences must be only slight instrumentation changes or the pacing of the take.  For example, at the climax in bar 12 the alternate takes a brisker tempo and the fadeout at the end takes longer.  But musically everything seems the same.

Now here's some fun stuff from the Omni book to make things more complicated:

 

• "6M2/6M3 Hoist the Flag" - This matches LLL 1-25 "Hoist the Flag".
• "6M2/6M3RA 54th Regiment (Film Version)" - "Hoist the Flag" beings the cue, with orchestra beginning at bar 53.  The structure of "Hoist the Flag" differs from any recording we have.  When the orchestra begins it starts similarly to "6M2 Worth a Life Version 2", however the melody at the beginning is elongated.  Structurally it features the same themes in the same sequence, again just elongated.  We do not have a recording of this as far as I can tell.
• "6M2/6M3R 54th Regiment" - Again starts with a version of "Hoist the Flag", followed by an orchestra entrance at bar 57.  Again, basically structured the same but with different variations of the themes presented in all versions of "Worth a Life".  Again, we do not have a recording of this as far as I can tell.
• "6M2 Worth a Life Version 1 (Parade Overlay)" - As said above, matches LLL 2-15 "Worth a Life (Alternate 1)".
• "6M2 Worth a Life Version 2" - As said above, this seems to match BOTH LLL 1-10 "Worth a Life" AND LLL 2-17 "Worth a Life (Alternate 2)".

 

So...there is a lot going on with that cue.  Hope that all helps @Jay, and doesn't complicate things further! 🤣

[Jay 37,287]

WOAH, fascinating stuff, Joe!

 

So it sounds like the actual book has different cues inside than the website lists as the Contents, so that led to some of the confusion!

 

Interesting about the Omni book having music that isn't on the LLL set.  I wonder if they were definitely never recorded, or if they were recorded on that final pickup day the masters didn't turn up for?

So much more to parse through here, I'll try to do so at a later time

[Joe Brausam 214]

Yep, the contents of the book I think k match what’s on the website, but the titles in the book do not.  It’s definitely a lot, that 6M2 situation is interesting - so many different versions!
 

Over the next few days I’ll try to put together a full comparison so we can see what we do and don’t have, maybe do a quick mock-up or two.

[Jay 37,287]

I haven't had time to go back into analytical mode, but I just want to say:


This album is really really great!  The sound quality is fantastic, and the new main program is just a great listen.  I honestly never really listened to the old OST album that many times, so basically going in fresh I just find the main program to be an extremely solid 57 minute experience.  That 54th regiment theme gets me every time.

I also ended up liking the source music more than I was expecting, which is more than I like the source music sections on most releases.  I always enjoy HAVING all the source music, and listening to it maybe 1 out of every 20 times I just enjoy the main program and that's it.  But in this case, I might trying a combined playlist with them all integrated in.  There's already plenty of drum & fife stuff in the main program, so more from the source section will probably fit in nicely.

 

Great release, one of the year's best.  And one of Horner's best scores!

[OneBuckFilms 319]

This is an excellent release. I’ve been going back for repeat lessons a lot.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

My god they started working on 2017. It really takes some time to release some scores.

 

We have to learn patience. (But it's difficult!)

[crocodile 7,984]

I love this set very much. It's one of Horner's most moving for sure.

 

Karol

[WampaRat 1,105]

So what’s everyone’s favorite previously unreleased cue on this release?

 

If I were to just pick one, “ “Battle of Grimball’s Landing”takes the cake for me. 
 

But the trio of “Our Time”, “Battle of Grimball’s Landing” and “Promise Me” really flesh out the narrative flow. I’m also a complete sucker for “Worth A Life”. Boy what a moving score. They don’t make ‘em like this anymore. Miss you James!

[Jay 37,287]

Yea, the section of the main program in between "Burning The Town Of Darien" and "Brave Words and Deeds" is just terrific!

 

Not having listened to the OST album a lot prior to getting this edition, I didn't go into it knowing offhand which tracks were old and which were new.  But when I noticed something really awesome and went to look at what track I was listening to, it was definitely that entire section plus Worth A Life that made me take notice as far as previously unreleased cues go

 

 

I think the more I listen to "The Battle Of Grimball’s Landing", the more I find it to be exceptionally awesome.

[blondheim 1,157]

The alternate Charging Fort Wagner is the most exciting new Horner cue in years. When the trumpet starts absolutely screaming the opening call like some kind of deranged descant... How did THAT not make it into the revision?

[Jay 37,287]

OOh I need to listen to that more.  I've mostly been listening to the main program

[WampaRat 1,105]

The alternate Charging Fort Wagner is very interesting indeed. Is it just me or does the orchestra seem a little loose/sloppy in that one? 😬 That might sound mean. And it might be because I’m used to the film version. I know it’s a different piece of music, but the performance of it just seems kinda …unsure of itself(?) Like it was the first time they played it…

[Jay 37,287]

That could very well be the case.  They might have never come back to nail down a better take once it was decided to rewrite the cue, so all we can get is early takes before they really nailed the performance

[WampaRat 1,105]

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

That could very well be the case.  They might have never come back to nail down a better take once it was decided to rewrite the cue, so all we can get is early takes before they really nailed the performance

That’s a good theory.

 

Relistening now and I feel like it’s the choir that actually seems pretty loose. And so it feels like the orchestra is a tad off. 

[blondheim 1,157]

Its rawness appeals to me.

[WampaRat 1,105]

Customized the main program juuust a tad.

 

I dropped “New Shoes” completely. (I love the tune when it’s integrated with the main 54th theme in “Year of Jubilee” though) I also switched “Lonely Christmas” to play before “The Decision/Second Flashback” as that big swelling statement of the “Fragility theme” seems like a great conclusion to the idea started in lonely Christmas.  Also, the eerie build at the conclusion of Second Flashback is a great lead in to “The Whipping”. Just my personal taste:) But it’s worth a try for the curious:

 

A Call to Arms-

After Antietam (Film Version)

Flashback

Flashback Alternate 1 (just like this one here. Not sure why)

Forming the regiment (FV)

Jefferson & Liberty (FV)

Lonely Christmas

The Decision/Second Flashback

The Whipping

Worth A Life 

Year of Jubilee

Burning Town of Darien

Our Time

Battle of Grimball’s Landing

Promise Me/When Do You Want Us

Brave Words and Deeds

Prep For Battle

Charging Fort Wagner

An Epitaph To War

Closing Credits

 

I think this might be the most significant Horner expansion in recent memory. Normally expansions of his scores don’t add a ton to already great scores. But the trio of Our Time/Grimball’s Landing/Promise Me are truly essential cues to this score and I’m so thankful we have them now!

 

 

[blondheim 1,157]

Does anyone know where all the source cues are supposed to go within the main program?

[WampaRat 1,105]

1 hour ago, blondheim said:

Does anyone know where all the source cues are supposed to go within the main program?

Hmm. I’ll probably need to watch the film one more time. But I could put a rough list together. 

[blondheim 1,157]

Just now, WampaRat said:

Hmm. I’ll probably need to watch the film one more time. But I could put a rough list together. 

 

If I were more familiar with the film, I would do it myself honestly but I haven't seen it since grade school.

[Corellian2019 383]

-Drei Klavierstucke goes between After Antietam and Flashback

 

-Old 1812, Jefferson & Liberty, Jefferson & Liberty (Full Version), and Jefferson & Liberty (Film Mix) go between Forming The Regiment and The Decision/Second Flashback 

 

-Hoist The Flag goes between Worth A Life and The Year Of Jubilee

 

-The Sicilian Circle comes right after The Year Of Jubilee

 

As for the rest, I have to investigate

[WampaRat 1,105]

Here’s my take as best as I can recall:

 

A Call To Arms

After Antietam

Drei Klavierstucke, DV 946 (plays during Shaw family party and fades into “Flashback”)

Flashback

Forming the Regiment
Jefferson and Liberty- Full Version

Jefferson And Liberty(?) (I believe this is used during the drill sergeant montage as well as the recruitment scene)

The Decision/Second Flashback
Lonely Christmas

The Whipping

New Shoes/ Old 1812 (same-ish as new shoes I think? It might play in the background somewhere…)

Hoist the Flag (Parade music that bleeds into “worth a life” in the film)

Worth a Life

Year of Jubilee

The Sicilian Circle - (I Believe this plays after the school children sing “My Country ‘Tis of Thee” after the 54th arrive in the South)

Burning the Town of Darien

Our Time

Battle of Grimball’s Landing

Promise Me/When do You Want Us

The Bonnie Blue Flag (This might actually go in between “Promise Me” right after the battle of Grimball’s  in a camp and before “When Do You Need us”)

Brave Words Braver Deeds

Preparations of Battle

Charging Fort Wagner

Epitaph to War

Closing Credits

[Amer 2,080]

By the way, when I saw the film I vividly remember that the Opening scene had that trumpet fanfare (lifted from Forming The Regiment cue) and the snare drum opening from A Call to Arms-(With Wild Opening) Track 13, Disc 2 .Has this been mentioned in the liner notes?

 

 

 

 

I wish they had used the same edit from the film sequence and used that to start the film program on disc 1. I still don’t understand why this Track 13 from disc 2 was not placed as the opening for disc 1?
 

Im still waiting for my set to ship (no thanks to WRATH OF KHAN) LOL.

 

 

[Corellian2019 383]

One curiosity about the parade scene: compared to the isolated score, it appears that none of the versions of "Worth A Life" or even "Hoist The Flag" on the LLL set match the corresponding scene in the film

[Jay 37,287]

Neil explains why none of the takes of "Worth A Life" on the set are the same as the one in the film here

[thestat 345]

What about that alternative Fort Wagner?

Sorry got pulled into shit - I love you tough nuts

[Kühni 485]

.

[Jay 37,287]

Yesterday morning just before arriving at work, I played "Battle At Grimball's Landing" and "Charging Fort Wagner (Alternate)" in my car.  I arrived at work ready to go!!

 

This album is awesome.  Great expansion

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

23 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yesterday morning just before arriving at work, I played "Battle At Grimball's Landing" and "Charging Fort Wagner (Alternate)" in my car.  I arrived at work ready to go!!

 

Did you kill anybody?

[Jay 37,287]

I wrote some killer code

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

[blondheim 1,157]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Yesterday morning just before arriving at work, I played "Battle At Grimball's Landing" and "Charging Fort Wagner (Alternate)" in my car.  I arrived at work ready to go!!

 

This album is awesome.  Great expansion

 

Those are the two. I can't imagine Glory without these two cues now. The new Glory album is a great testament to the importance of these releases. The release revealed a different facet to this work. My perspective on this piece as a whole has definitely changed, and for the better.

[Smeltington 1,436]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Are you trying to damage Jay's reputation?

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Someone has to!

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Reading this thread makes me want to break out the score again.

[Jay 37,287]

Another thing that made me enjoy the score was the awesome colored chart that visualizes when Horner uses each of the major themes.  It's a way to describe theme usage in a score that I've never seen before and it motivates me to want to make similar charts for other scores!

 

Here it is: https://www.patreon.com/posts/56157322

[Tallguy 3,373]

49 minutes ago, Jay said:

Another thing that made me enjoy the score was the awesome colored chart that visualizes when Horner uses each of the major themes.  It's a way to describe theme usage in a score that I've never seen before and it motivates me to want to make similar charts for other scores!

 

Here it is: https://www.patreon.com/posts/56157322

 

Go for it!

[WampaRat 1,105]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Another thing that made me enjoy the score was the awesome colored chart that visualizes when Horner uses each of the major themes.  It's a way to describe theme usage in a score that I've never seen before and it motivates me to want to make similar charts for other scores!

 

Here it is: https://www.patreon.com/posts/56157322

Woah! That chart is amazing. It would be bonkers to see something like that for Hook - an insane amount of thematic material in that. Or could you imagine a chart like that for Shores LOTR scores? very cool.

[Jay 37,287]

Yea I thought it was pretty amazing too.  Kind of a lightbulb went off for me, like wow, we could have been visualizing scores like this this whole time!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

15 hours ago, Jay said:

Kind of a lightbulb went off for me

 

On, you mean?

[Jay 37,287]

No.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

I'm hoping this finds it way under my Christmas tree!  It's near the top of my wish list for sure.  

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 249]

On 02/12/2021 at 7:44 PM, Jay said:

Another thing that made me enjoy the score was the awesome colored chart that visualizes when Horner uses each of the major themes.  It's a way to describe theme usage in a score that I've never seen before and it motivates me to want to make similar charts for other scores!

 

Here it is: https://www.patreon.com/posts/56157322

@Jay@WampaRat Thank you for the positive comments.
 

I have achieved my goal if it helps you enjoy the album.
 

The first time I did this style of chart was for Collage (2015), I had started doing it for The Rocketeer in 2016 when Intrada released the full score. But I didn't put them online. Maybe one day when the book will be finished.