J.K. Rowling didn't like JW because the music didn't sound English enough? Fact or fiction?

[Nick1Ø66 3,856]

34 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Are we ordering the films or the scores?

 

Well I was ordering the films. My order for the scores would be different (obviously). Same goes for the books.

[Marian Schedenig 7,214]

39 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

5 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

1. Order of the Phoenix

 

Bruder! Mein Bruder!
Siegmund, ha!

 

Bit of a strange thing to get all incestuous about?

[Jay 33,700]

3 hours ago, Michael G. said:

btw: How much money does John Williams actually get for a film? Are there any known amounts?

@Jay

 

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3367-how-much-does-williams-make-per-score/

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21413-john-williams-salary/

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31180-how-much-does-a-top-composer-like-williams-shore-zimmer-make-per-score/

[Bespin 7,566]

Writing background music for films could make you rich!

[Edmilson 5,703]

I fucking hate the movie Order of the Phoenix (and its score) since I watched it in theaters at age 14. They took my favorite book from my childhood and turned into a bland and forgettable TV movie. 

 

The other Yates-directed movie are no masterpieces, but at the very least they're better than OotP. 

[Bespin 7,566]

The magic went away from the franchise with JW...

 

And now we know Harry Potter was drunk all the time.

 

What a bummer!

[Edmilson 5,703]

10 minutes ago, Bespin said:

The magic went away from the franchise with JW...

 

Indeed.

[Chen G. 3,346]

29 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I fucking hate the movie Order of the Phoenix (and its score) since I watched it in theaters at age 14. They took my favorite book from my childhood and turned into a bland and forgettable TV movie. 

 

I don't think I got reading as far as Order of the Phoenix back in its day, or maybe I stopped somewhere halfway through it. I watched it again actually around this time of year (when Israeli TV tends to line-up the Potter films) just a few years ago, and then when I revisited the films again shortly thereafter I was deeply struck by the ending to that film.

 

So I'm judging it strictly as a movie. Sure, there are some editing choices I disagree with here, but on the whole I find the core of the film very dramatically potent.

[Bespin 7,566]

Like we say: JW can't score them all!

[Edmilson 5,703]

I admit that there's some things in the movie Order of the Phoenix that are an improvement over the book, for example, Sirius Black.

 

Gary Oldman's Sirius is portrayed as a wise, mature older man and a loving father figure to Harry. They share two great scenes together. Meanwhile, book Sirius is less mature, which makes him act like a stupid teenager sometimes. 

 

The magic battles are pretty good too. Can't believe it took them five movies to show wizards doing battle with their wands, but at least the showdown with the Death Eaters and Voldemort is really good.

[Nick1Ø66 3,856]

The first time I read OOTP I find huge sections of it to be a slog. There's some excellent stuff in there, but it's buried beneath a lot of excess, even for Rowling. I think the film does a good job of cutting the story down to the essentials. In that way it's really a marvel of editing, considering they took the longest book and turned it into the shortest film.  Oddly enough, the film has improved my appreciation for the book on subsequent readings.  And I agree with @Edmilson about the portrayal of Sirius Black.

 

You wouldn't want to do this with Philosopher's Stone, which was largely (and appropriately) about world-building, but in book to film, brutal editing saved OOTP.

[King Mark 3,411]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:25 PM, bollemanneke said:

That's insane. Should I give examples of political posts vs sarcastic politcal posts, or could that be the end of my tenure at JWfan?

I don't understand what was wrong with these posts either. 

 

Anyways I'll be mostly limiting my posting to non satirical, straightforward comments on the latest expanded  release or new Williams piece/score. It's the first time in the board history where I feel like  literally anything else you say can possibly get you a warning or ban from the mods.

 

Political posts used to be easy to avoid and this place existed mainly to discuss movies ,TV shows, videogames and film scores, but it's hard when everything you loved about all that is being infiltrated and ruined by political agendas and your forced to remain silent about it . Basically our favorite topics are full of land mines now and I'm not sure what this new mod squad is looking for.

 

 

 

[crocodile 7,547]

Perhaps it is a blessing John Williams isn't as outspoken as some other artists and keeps his beliefs and prejudices to himself. One less thing to needlessly divide people. 🙂

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 10,683]

JW's been clear he's not a religious man, so he'd be perfect for this forum.

 

On 9/3/2021 at 11:33 PM, Bespin said:

"J.K. Rowling" is a subject we globally should avoid on JWfan.

 

She's "problematic"!

 

No worries, Jay already closed down her Twitter account.

[Edmilson 5,703]

19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

JW's been clear he's not a religious man, so he'd be perfect for this forum.

 

If this was EnnioMorriconeFan.com, we'd have some serious problems, since he was very Catholic.

[crumbs 13,547]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

JW's been clear he's not a religious man, so he'd be perfect for this forum.

 

Music is his religion, and we're all the richer for it.

[Jurassic Shark 10,683]

There's already a SW religion, we should start a JW religion!

[Loert 2,409]

Brian Eno did once call JW his "Anti-christ". But he also calls himself a "non-musician", so...

[Docteur Qui 1,499]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:55 AM, Michael G. said:

 

+jwfan is not considered a safe source here!  Let's start a forum fight! 😂+

 

Surely Warner Brothers owns all rights to the music of Harry Potter? I don't know the ins-and-outs of Hollywood arts law but I'm under the impression that composers are work-for-hire and don't retain any publishing for their music. Wouldn't be that difficult to use Hedwig's Theme for subsequent films would it?

 

Hedwig's Theme was always going to be the musical identity of the Potter films ever since the first movie and now it's the aural stamp for the whole Wizarding franchise. You couldn't ask for better branding. One of the dumbest things Marvel ever did was spend their first 10 years refusing to establish any kind of musical identity for their films.

[Tom 4,003]

17 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

One of the dumbest things Marvel ever did was spend their first 10 years refusing to establish any kind of musical identity for their films.

The SW anthology films have one upped them in dumbness (deafness?) by opting to not use the SW opening as their calling card.  

[Datameister 1,852]

55 minutes ago, Tom said:

The SW anthology films have one upped them in dumbness (deafness?) by opting to not use the SW opening as their calling card.  

 

Nah, I think it was a good call. My disappointment is in the fact that there ended up only being two "Star Wars Stories," and they had totally different openings from each other and from the episodes, yet both used the classic Star Wars end credits. It's a melange of unique and familiar elements that doesn't quite work for me.

 

I would have preferred that the anthology films not use the main saga's main title or end credits. I also have a slight preference for the idea of them sharing similar new formats for each, but oh well.

[Tom 4,003]

Well, it would have at least worked to avoid the oddest musical moment in the SW franchise (obviously, the title card music for Rogue One).  

[Tallguy 2,171]

14 minutes ago, Tom said:

Well, it would have at least worked to avoid the oddest musical moment in the SW franchise (obviously, the title card music for Rogue One).  

 

THAT'S your oddest moment? I thought it was rousing.

[Tom 4,003]

2 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

THAT'S your oddest moment? I thought it was rousing.

it struck me as a generic rip off of the SW main title, which you cannot do in an actual SW movie.  

[Not Mr. Big 4,486]

30 minutes ago, Tom said:

Well, it would have at least worked to avoid the oddest musical moment in the SW franchise (obviously, the title card music for Rogue One).  

They could have just had it be a normal title

[TSMefford 1,463]

On 9/5/2021 at 3:42 PM, Edmilson said:

I fucking hate the movie Order of the Phoenix (and its score) since I watched it in theaters at age 14. They took my favorite book from my childhood and turned into a bland and forgettable TV movie. 

 

The other Yates-directed movie are no masterpieces, but at the very least they're better than OotP. 

 

I literally got to the part in this thread and thought a very similar thing. I don't really have any thoughts on anything else in the thread, but was glad to read someone else captured very similar feelings to mine about the OotP film.

 

It's not my favorite of the books, but the film certainly feels to me a bit like someone stung together 4-6 episodes of a TV mini-series. I wouldn't even say it feels like a TV movie. It's enjoyable enough, there are certainly worse films in general, but compared to the rest of the Potters there's just something off about it that I can't figure out in the cinematography, the acting, the writing, etc. I don't know, but I completely agree it feels more like something made for TV, than a cinematic film like the rest of them do.

 

I just don't think I see what some other people do in it. Plenty of people love it from what I've heard, but it's not nearly as cool as the book manages in certain areas and just feels rushed and not as smoothly constructed. Half-Blood Prince is an absolutely hugely contrasting follow-up regardless of your thoughts on quality. To me, they almost feel like they were made by two different directors.

[Tallguy 2,171]

55 minutes ago, Tom said:

it struck me as a generic rip off of the SW main title, which you cannot do in an actual SW movie.  

 

I loved it. I don't know what it will be like when it's just a part of "Star Wars". But it was uncharted territory. They didn't (and weren't going to) do the saga title. But it was still obviously Star Wars.

 

Maybe G was being too clever by half, but I loved that he took the parts of Star Wars and put them in a new order. I hardly call that "rip off" since, like you said, it was in an actual Star Wars movie. Maybe if he had played that theme more (and in a more traditional Star Wars manner) I might not have liked it as much. But he plays it, what? Three times? Four. It's not even in the end credits suite.

[Darth Mulder 150]

Is there any official material where J.K.R. mentions the work of John Williams? All those legendary and memorable themes are a gift for start a great franchise. 

[Docteur Qui 1,499]

Not to my knowledge, which is a shame because she's certainly reaping the benefits of having such an incredible sonic brand for her empire!

 

Still sour at the fact she vetoed Williams' original plans for the Children's Suite from Philosopher's Stone, it could've been a wonderful project in the vein of Benjamin Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra. While I respect that she didn't want Potter to be used for educational purposes, the fact is that it would've been an exceptional way to introduce a new generation to the orchestra and further establish Williams' music as valid within the classical canon and as standard repertoire for the symphony orchestra. Thankfully the Live to Projection concerts have all but done that anyway, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an orchestra around the world that hasn't performed sold-out concerts featuring his music.

[Not Mr. Big 4,486]

I've disliked Rowling for a while because of this and now everyone else hates her too.  

On 14/09/2021 at 9:29 PM, Tom said:

it struck me as a generic rip off of the SW main title, which you cannot do in an actual SW movie.  

We know now why they did that at least

[Edmilson 5,703]

Maybe we should ask her on Twitter about what she thinks about JW's Potter scores? 

[Darth Mulder 150]

11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Maybe we should ask her on Twitter about what she thinks about JW's Potter scores? 

 

If you've got the guts try it 

[Naïve Old Fart 8,695]

Who gives a single shit about what some hack author thinks? I certainly don't.

The contribution of JW's three superlative scores on the Harry Potter films cannot be overlooked, and were responsible, significantly, in creating the mood, the environment, and the popularity of the earlier films.

This writer (and I use the term loosely) should be falling prostrate at JW's feet, and not criticising his music.

Fuck this crap.

[bollemanneke 3,070]

14 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Maybe we should ask her on Twitter about what she thinks about JW's Potter scores? 

YOU DO NOT SPEAK TO JKR ANYMORE! HOW DARE YOU EVEN CONSIDER APPROACHING SUCH A VILE WOMAN???

 

In all seriousness, though, I would have liked to know her answer a few years ago, but after FB...

[Tallguy 2,171]

5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Who gives a single shit about what some hack author thinks? I certainly don't.

 

Curiously, lots of people until she crossed a particular line.

[Cameron007 34]

I agree with boll, I absolutely loved Doyle's score for Goblet of Fire. It's pretty melodramatic, which may put off some people, but to me it's lush and thematically rich.

[SilverTrumpet 610]

If it wasn't preceded by the Williams scores, it would be seen as a film music classic. 

[Darth Mulder 150]

21 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

YOU DO NOT SPEAK TO JKR ANYMORE! HOW DARE YOU EVEN CONSIDER APPROACHING SUCH A VILE WOMAN???

 

Why would she be a vile woman? 

[bollemanneke 3,070]

I was sarcastically referring to the insane Twitter crowd.

[HunterTech 814]

I don't know. Someone so focused on the potential of one group to cause problems over the many actual issues women face sounds like a person to be concerned about with the large platform she technically still has (especially with the very questionable folk she's championing not being people you want to have much power in the first place).

 

Though based on that: she'd be so preoccupied with her views elsewhere that I can't really recall her actually talking about the franchise much on her account these days. Sure, the Wizarding World one exists just for that, but you'd think someone who wrote a recent major blockbuster would focus on that while it’d be relevant. Some would say her getting any attention is the advertisement, but I couldn't imagine that selling many more tickets.

[Tallguy 2,171]

I'd respond but I don't want to make @Jay's job harder than it is.

 

But was Williams' music "English" enough?

[Loert 2,409]

15 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

But was Williams' music "English" enough?

 

Yes and no. What is meant by "English" exactly? The term is so vague when applied to music that the statement "His music wasn't English enough" borders on the meaningless.

 

I suppose this is truly English music:

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 8,695]

21 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 @Jaywas Williams' music "English" enough?

 

If this person thinks that JW's music is not "English" enough, then they have as choice:

1/ they are welcome to attend Julliard, then work in television, then film, then more television, and then a whole lot more film, for 65 years, while honing their skills as a composer of motion pictures. After that, they will be quite entitled to compose an "English" score, or...

2/ shut the hell up and be grateful that JW scored three films which are based on their books!

I suggest option #2.

[Darth Mulder 150]

 

...and maybe this  

[Tallguy 2,171]

1 minute ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

2/ shut the hell up and be grateful that JW scored three films which are based on their books!

I suggest option #2.

 

I mean... I know that's what I would do if I was hanging my whole legacy that I built from scratch on the line.

 

(But she did wind up doing OK, didn't she?)

 

2 minutes ago, Darth Mulder said:

...and maybe this  

 

I should revisit this score. Goblet was my favorite book but not my favorite movie. And how the heck do you follow JW?

[mstrox 6,060]

I understand Rowling’s criticisms.  Williams scored three movies and not a whiff of a quote from Rule Brittania, God Save the Queen, bloody WATER MUSIC?!

 

I prefer the criticisms levied against Rowling, tbh.

[Marian Schedenig 7,214]

4 minutes ago, mstrox said:

I understand Rowling’s criticisms.  Williams scored three movies and not a whiff of a quote from Rule Brittania, God Save the Queen, bloody WATER MUSIC?!

 

Hey, Händel was a German! Which brings us back to @Loert's post I guess.

[bollemanneke 3,070]

I'll just keep this very personal in order not to break any rules but speak my mind anyway.

 

1. I can identify as a WW2 veteran with a job as a fireman tomorrow, but I hope to God they won't ask me to put out any fires just because of that.

2. Williams' music does not sound English to me at all. His most English material for me is Jane Eyre and the new HSATP suite.

[Taikomochi 1,018]

Oof some absolute dog shit takes in this thread, including the one immediately preceding my post. Also pretty sure they violate the site rules with regards to discussion of cancel culture/politics/etc., even if they are anti-cancel culture. 

[bollemanneke 3,070]

How is cancel culture politics? Isn't it a battle primarily waged by non-politicians?