J.K. Rowling didn't like JW because the music didn't sound English enough? Fact or fiction?

[Brónach 822]

On 26/07/2022 at 2:04 AM, Docteur Qui said:

Not to my knowledge, which is a shame because she's certainly reaping the benefits of having such an incredible sonic brand for her empire!

 

Still sour at the fact she vetoed Williams' original plans for the Children's Suite from Philosopher's Stone, it could've been a wonderful project in the vein of Benjamin Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra. While I respect that she didn't want Potter to be used for educational purposes, the fact is that it would've been an exceptional way to introduce a new generation to the orchestra and further establish Williams' music as valid within the classical canon and as standard repertoire for the symphony orchestra. Thankfully the Live to Projection concerts have all but done that anyway, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an orchestra around the world that hasn't performed sold-out concerts featuring his music.

 

she doesn't have taste and doesn't understand things

[HunterTech 742]

16 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

How is cancel culture politics? Isn't it a battle primarily waged by non-politicians?

 

If politicians ask their followers to boycott key companies and certain concepts, then I'd say they indulge in the alleged practices as much as the people they slam it for supposedly do.

 

Also, before the mods come in, I have to say: an attack helicopter joke? Really? A fireman who can't put out fires is a terrible analogy, since it unintentionally dismisses infertile and intersex folk. Are they suddenly lesser for lacking key human functions?

[JWFan Moderators 81]

This is a forum to discuss music and movies and not the place for having a back-and-forth about cancel culture and gender identity.

 

You can continue to talk about John Williams' music and Rowling's possible thoughts on it, but not her stance on political issues.

Thank you.

[Brónach 822]

don't give attention to them, don't play defense, believe me from experience

[Edmilson 4,985]

This thread will end up being closed. It's just a matter of time...

[bollemanneke 2,935]

Okay, so back on topic: I remember Cuarón once said that he wanted the music to be more English, but don't understand how that translates into the score. Medieval/baroque instrumentation doesn't make something English, right? Or did he mean the sweeping WTTP statements? (Another typical English score I just thought of: War Horse. I can clearly hear Vaughn Williams' influences there. If anything, that makes HP1 and 2 sound like Tchaikovsky.

[Not Mr. Big 4,244]

I think JK Rowling is a big dumb bitch 

[Positivatee 323]

14 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I think JK Rowling is a big dumb bitch 

 

JK Rowling has more money in her bathtub drain than you'll ever see. Your opinion means nothing. 

[Taikomochi 905]

Plenty of rich people who are also big dumb bitches. No amount of money gonna help JK escape her status as a big dumb bitch*.

 

*for her alleged opinions on the music of John Williams
 

 

 

[bollemanneke 2,935]

Well, I tried.

[Tallguy 1,849]

4 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Well, I tried.

 

Me too. We few, we happy few...

[Brónach 822]

1 hour ago, Taikomochi said:

Plenty of rich people who are also big dumb bitches. No amount of money gonna help JK escape her status as a big dumb bitch*.

 

*for her alleged opinions on the music of John Williams
 

 

 

 

this is funny because what rich people and specially very rich people obviously want all the time is prestige, societal approval. and also "experiences". many show a somewhat consistent motivation, in the absence of having lives to fix or survival issues.

 

and so that's why The Rings of Power exists.

 

it would be very interesting to have Jowling Rowling's opinion on the JW music, if she ever paid attention to it, so long as it isn't empty platitudes.

[King Mark 3,225]

I don't remember her ever mentioning or praising JW's music in an interview.  So I'm guessing he wasn't her first choice

[Edmilson 4,985]

Can we just rename this thread to "The Official 'I Hate J.K. Rowling' Thread?"

[HunterTech 742]

Would Rowling have even thought about the music much? It kind of sounds like from everything I've heard that she was mainly preoccupied with the actors being English before much of the crew. Hell, Kloves and Columbus being American would make it appear that it wasn't a particularly big priority on who some of the key people were as long as it was partly a British production.

Also, would this be a good place to mention Newell's "real" reasoning for not going for Williams on GoF?

[Tallguy 1,849]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Can we just rename this thread to "The Official 'I Hate J.K. Rowling' Thread?"

 

No. She made Harry Potter. Whatever the missteps of the books or her personal opinions she's very singular in that regard.

 

Maybe it seems like just an appetite for dirt, but I'm honestly interested in her opinions on the adaptations of her material. I mean if you say that you don't like John Williams even AFTER he wrote music for your books that seems like it's always been there (IMHO of course) I'd like to know if you have reasons other than just being contrarian.

 

Say what you will about the films but as adaptations go they're much more faithful than, say "The Hunt for Red October".

 

I remember in the last book when Neville was described as "tall" I knew that the movies had seeped back into the books. Like when Ian Fleming made James Bond Scottish.

[DangerMotif 664]

just shows what could have been. The music elevates this so much

[publicist 4,636]

3 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Also, would this be a good place to mention Newell's "real" reasoning for not going for Williams on GoF?

 

Probably because he found it less important to accommodate Williams' (or his agents) demands (be that schedule, rough cut availability, temp track refusal, etc.) than to have easy access to a colleague and fellow (ahem) brit. I think there would be a fair number of board members here who - put in the stressful position of having to direct a billion $ franchise - would also have second thoughts on having another potential nightmarish production problem on their hands, and from what i read about the subject, we cannot imagine how many factors and variables you have to juggle.

 

Bottom line: it's way down the importance ladder, compared to i. e. actors or location shoots.

[bollemanneke 2,935]

Newell made an excellent choice in Doyle. I can't see Williams' score working for his movie. GOF needs the Doyle touch, if only for the Yule Ball.

[GerateWohl 2,859]

3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Newell made an excellent choice in Doyle. I can't see Williams' score working for his movie. 

Probably because the movie itself isn’t working very well.

[publicist 4,636]

On 29/07/2022 at 2:18 PM, GerateWohl said:

Probably because the movie itself isn’t working very well.

 

That hasn't stopped him before. 

[Naïve Old Fart 7,994]

Newell made it quite clear that he did not like JW's music. Also, he had worked with Doyle before.

There was never any possibility of JW scoring GOF, as long as Newell was attached. @publicist is right: the choice of composer is not that high on film studios' list of priorities.

As much as I would have liked to have heard eight HP scores by JW, instead of three, what we have got are three of his most popular scores, and three truly great extended pieces of work.

 

 

 

On 29/07/2022 at 1:18 PM, GerateWohl said:

Probably because the movie itself isn’t working very well.

 

I'm not a huge fan of GOF, but I will happily concede that it is the best directed Harry Potter film.

[bollemanneke 2,935]

Hang on, didn't Cuaron also want Doyle but didn't WB force JW upon him?

[Disco Stu 15,476]

I had forgotten that Doyle scored Cuaron's only two previous English films.

[Tallguy 1,849]

Happy birthday to Rowling and Harry!

[bollemanneke 2,935]

Got summat for yeh.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,994]

On 31/07/2022 at 12:32 PM, bollemanneke said:

Hang on, didn't Cuaron also want Doyle but didn't WB force JW upon him?

Wha'?  I've neither heard of, nor read, that. Evidence, please.

[bollemanneke 2,935]

I honestly don't know where I got it, but definitely recall it happened.

[TheUlyssesian 2,303]

On 31/7/2022 at 6:43 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

Newell made it quite clear that he did not like JW's music. Also, he had worked with Doyle before.

There was never any possibility of JW scoring GOF, as long as Newell was attached. @publicist is right: the choice of composer is not that high on film studios' list of priorities.

As much as I would have liked to have heard eight HP scores by JW, instead of three, what we have got are three of his most popular scores, and three truly great extended pieces of work.

 

 

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of GOF, but I will happily concede that it is the best directed Harry Potter film.

 On a big production, studio/producers can overrule director.

 

 With Star Wars sequel trilogy, Williams was not negotiable. Any directors coming in would have to use Williams.

 

WB could have done that too - told Newell Williams is non negotiable.

[bollemanneke 2,935]

His schedule was also non-negotiable. 

[Naïve Old Fart 7,994]

His schedule would have been tight, but not "non-negotiable".

He could have finished GOF, in July, and worked on MUNICH and MOAG (which he only did as a favour to Spielberg), August thru November.

Still, we've got what we've got.

From now until December, he could write two scores, if he wants to...

[mrbellamy 5,718]

I think Geisha was top priority for Williams and not a favor to Spielberg at all, he really wanted to do that one 

[Holko 8,228]

Having JW's incredible Geisha and Doyle's fantastic GOF is absolutely the best case scenario IMO.

[Bilbo 3,706]

FWIW Rowling’s involvement in the films seems to have been limited to casting and the scripts/story. She was very hands off and let them get on with it. I don’t think she’d have particularly cared about the music one way or the other. 
 

The fact that JW’s music appears throughout the series and into FB etc. probably says more to her approving/not caring than anything else. 

[bollemanneke 2,935]

5 hours ago, Holko said:

Having JW's incredible Geisha and Doyle's fantastic GOF is absolutely the best case scenario IMO.

YES. I personally never ever wished he had done GOF. 5 and 6, maybe, but Doyle would have been my first choice after 4. 7 and 8 are fine, 7 being very intellectual, but suffer from awful directing choices.

[Not Mr. Big 4,244]

7 hours ago, Holko said:

Having JW's incredible Geisha and Doyle's fantastic GOF is absolutely the best case scenario IMO.

I would trade Geisha for a JW GOF.  Not huge on that score.  

[Tallguy 1,849]

Not entirely related but we were watching Thor the other night and my wife commented "This music is really pretty!" I pointed at the screen and said "DOYLE!"

[TheUlyssesian 2,303]

10 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Not entirely related but we were watching Thor the other night and my wife commented "This music is really pretty!" I pointed at the screen and said "DOYLE!"

Thor score is underrated. It’s a well done score. The main theme is very above average for superhero fare.

[bollemanneke 2,935]

Another example of MCU madness, dropping his themes.

[Drew 564]

Here's a crazy foreshadowing from MMUK's review of Chamber of Secrets. Read the last sentence of the review!

 

https://moviemusicuk.us/2002/11/15/harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets-john-williams-and-william-ross/ 

[Nick1Ø66 3,827]

Well this is quite the thread! 

 

1. Did Rowling say something negative about JW's music? If so, I haven't heard about it.
2. As the author of the books, isn't she entitled to her opinion? And who cares if she doesn't love JW the way we do?
3. Rowling apparently insisted on an all-English cast, and nixed Spielberg's (who wanted bizarrely, yet predictably, wanted Haley Joel Osment as Harry) awful idea for an animated film which would have combined the first few books.  On those aspects, at least, her instincts were spot on.
4. I loved reading the books, and have nothing against Rowling. Her political opinions, and her opinion on JW, don't impact my ability to enjoy her work one bit.
5. The Fantastic Beasts movies suck. I'm not even sure she cares about them anymore. Certainly an example of the law of diminishing returns.

[publicist 4,636]

10 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Did Rowling say something negative about JW's music? If so, I haven't heard about it.

 

There was a claim that she somehow didn't want Williams' children suite released in connection to the first movie, though the reasons for that never came out. More didn't happen. 

[bollemanneke 2,935]

It wasn't a claim, it was fact: MM said she didn't want anything HP perceived as educational.

[Luke Skywalker 1,511]

9 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

It wasn't a claim, it was fact: MM said she didn't want anything HP perceived as educational.

What a ‘mainstream’ close minded view. 

 

children books are suppose to encourage children to read!

[publicist 4,636]

Be that as it may, it's a second-hand info that has got nothing to do with J.K. Rowling not liking the JW score because the music didn't sound English enough.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,994]

16 hours ago, Drew said:

Here's a crazy foreshadowing from MMUK's review of Chamber of Secrets. Read the last sentence of the review!

"Album produced by John Williams" .

[Edmilson 4,985]

Don't know where to put this, but since this appear to be our official J.K. Rowling thread, so here it goes:

 

J.K. Rowling addresses absence from Harry Potter 20th anniversary reunion special: 'I didn't want to do it'

[bollemanneke 2,935]

That's what I thought from the beginning too. It made no sense to join, this was indeed all about the first film.