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Rescoring Star Wars


ocelot

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OK, I do agree that it would be nice to have a couple of Imperial March quotes in A New Hope (oops, I know I know, Neil, it's called Star Wars :( )

What I was thinking of is Return of the Jedi...... When Darth Vader takes his Helmet off and is finally turning back to the good side, after all the time that has passed with him being Darth Vader, it would be so powerful if Anakins theme played poignantly over it, maybe with solo french Horn or something. At least that's what I would do.

That way you also get a Statement from the previous trillogy in a later movie as well.

Just a thought I woke up to. Now I am off to have breakfast.

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Hmm, yes with ANH. But ROTJ, that piece for Vader's death is way too good to change.

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JW could rescore a scene or 2 with Anakin's theme, but not vader's death. That's one brilliant piece of music. Perhaps when Luke sees his father as a ghost, joined by Yoda and Obi-Wan.

Or perhaps in Episode IV, when Obi-Wan tells luke how anakin was a great pilo t and a good friend...since he's refering to the good side of anakin, the use of anakin's theme in that scene wouldn't be inapropriate.

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That's the problem with rescoring any part of the original trilogy! It would make sense and be cool to have all the themes unified, but the original music is just way too good to change!

NP: Ghostbusters (Bernstein)

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Well, not all the underscore in ANH is great. It's not like TESB where every track is a masterpiece :(

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Morn, are you insane. Star Wars is the best Star Wars score period.

Joe, who thinks Morn has suffered permanent brain injuries from all the deadly spiders in Australia. :(

by the way you are all invited to a catfish party tonight under the banana tree canopys at my house. :D

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Well,I agree that some of the underscore of Episode IV isn`t all good.

In fact, I think that Episode IV is the most boring and less varied of the old trilogy scores. It would be nice to feature Imperial March when we see Darth Vader for the first time in the film.

Wooh!

But he does NOT need to rescore Episode V and VI as all of the music is great and fits very well as it is.

:(

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I agree, but Lucas does need to restore EP 5 and 6 in the film as Williams intended them!

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Well,I agree that some of the underscore of Episode IV isn`t all good.

In fact, I think that Episode IV is the most boring and less varied of the old trilogy scores. It would be nice to feature Imperial March when we see Darth Vader for the first time in the film.  

Wooh!

But he does NOT need to rescore Episode V and VI as all of the music is great and fits very well as it is.  

:(

HOW you can say that is beyond me since ROTJ features tons of Music from Star Wars. So if it is perfect in Jedi why isn't it perfect in Star Wars.

Joe, feeling pity for the other joe.

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Hey, Star Wars has many great 5 minutes separated by some dull to fairly good 5 to 10 minutes. It has brilliant parts. The parts used in ROTJ are some of the brilliant parts :(

I rate the scores in this order.

TESB

ROTJ

ANH

TPM

AOTC

And they are all great. The last 3 I'm not sure about the order as well.

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Many of you (including Ocelot) know where I stand on this. No, no, no!! The scores to these films do not need to be touched. The films are what they are. Why should Star Wars, a perfect movie, be downgraded to better fit the overall arc of the saga? It doesn't make any sense. If anything, the other films should be altered to make them as good as Star Wars. And changing a few cues in Jedi is not going to make the film any better.

Neil

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I don't think Anakin's theme could fit anywhere in the original trilogy. It's too childish of a theme, too innocent. Vader/Grown up Anakin aren't innocent whatsoever, the theme doesn't fit them at all. I think Vader's Death music is incredibly beautiful and shouldn't be touched. Honestly, I don't want ANYTHING touched in the original trilogy, but if need be, a few changes in ANH MIGHT be okay (I think it's the least best out of the three, but it's still outstanding) or MAYBE the Emperor's theme in ESB.

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I think Luke and Leia's theme should've been used for Anakin and Padme. The quote of it at the end of ROTJ could be replaced with Han and Leia's theme, and leave the earlier quote in the Ewok village there, since they WERE talking about Anakin and Padme...in a sense.

I think the ROTJ duel's score should be replaced with a slower, all-male version of DOTF.

I just tried replacing "Imperial Attack" in ANH with the Arena theme from AOTC. When the snare drum plays before the theme, it was in synch with the troopers cutting through the Tantive IV's airlock and the first shot of the stormtroopers was right in synch with the theme. It worked fairly well up until the first shot of Vader stepping through the airlock. I'm not saying it was great, but it worked better than "Imperial Attack", except "Arena" sounds more modern than the rest of the ANH score.

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Or perhaps in Episode IV, when Obi-Wan tells luke how anakin was a great pilo t and a good friend...since he's refering to the good side of anakin, the use of anakin's theme in that scene wouldn't be inapropriate.

Yes! Play that scene with a slow brass solo of the Imperial March when Ben is talking about Vader and then that mournful horn solo of Anakin's theme (from the End Credits of AOTC) when Ben is speaking about 'his friend', Luke's father.

TIM

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Stefancos- who thinks Lucas would just track music from TESB into Star Wars (ANH) anyway. :cry:

Actually, I was thinking about suggesting the podrace music that ended up in the Gungan battle scenes from TPM! :roll:

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>>I think the ROTJ duel's score should be replaced with a slower, all-male version of DOTF.

Those 45 seconds are the awsomest, most amazing, most hair-raising 45 seconds of music written this century. He should NOT change that section AT ALL. I'd rather see the rest of the score completely redone in a synth than to see those 45 seconds messed with. OK, maybe not. But it's close.

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What does everyone have to say if the three originals were re-recorded?

I'd say that it would not improve the films in the slightest. Therefore, Lucas should spend his money on making new films and stop f**king around with 20+ year old movies.

Neil

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Many of you (including Ocelot) know where I stand on this.  No, no, no!!  The scores to these films do not need to be touched.  The films are what they are.  Why should Star Wars, a perfect movie, be downgraded to better fit the overall arc of the saga?  It doesn't make any sense.  If anything, the other films should be altered to make them as good as Star Wars.  And changing a few cues in Jedi is not going to make the film any better.

Neil

I agree with that. It just seems completely unnescessary in my opinion.

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I think Luke and Leia's theme should've been used for Anakin and Padme. The quote of it at the end of ROTJ could be replaced with Han and Leia's theme, and leave the earlier quote in the Ewok village there, since they WERE talking about Anakin and Padme...in a sense.  

I think the ROTJ duel's score should be replaced with a slower, all-male version of DOTF.

CRAZY!!!! :!:

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I post a new thread, leave for a day or two and all hell breaks loose...... OK, answer this... Why is it that most of you think that ROTJ is the worst score of the original trillogy yet it's ANH (oops, sorry Neil) that is Ok to be re-scored?

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Most of us think ROTJ is the worse score? I think it's the 2nd best! Plus it's even Williams fav.

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I think it's the 2nd best! Plus it's even Williams fav.

How do you know that ROTJ is Williams' favorite score (from the SW saga, I assume)?

BTW, I love the movie and the score. Here's Ricard's SW scores rating:

1) The Empire Strikes Back (10/10) AND Return of the Jedi (10/10)

2) Star Wars: A New Hope (8'5/10)

3) The Phantom Menace (5/10)

4) Attack of the Clones (3/10)

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Why is it that most of you think that ROTJ is the worst score of the original trillogy ...

It's not the worst score - it simply SOUNDS the worst of the SE CD sets!

Seriously, though, I will want to wait until we see/hear Episode III for possible themes to insert into the 'final' version of ROTJ (apart from the Anakin/Padme theme, of course).

There is potential for Palpatine/Sideous activity that might conjure up a new or reworked theme that could resonate when Luke confronts the Emperor.

OR could Williams do something completely clever and take that wonderful choral cue when Luke finally jumps on Vader ("Sister! You have a twin sister"...), rework it slightly sinister and use that as new score for Episode III as the bad stuff happens to Anakin, et al? This way it could resolve to the good in ROTJ. THAT'S what we should be doing - banging the drum to have good existing music written into the final prequel, not the other way around ...

Other rumored 'what ifs' that MIGHT require new music:

- Padme flashback?

- dead Jedi 'blue glow' curtain call scene prior to End Credits? Why not add everyone: Qui Gon, Mace, that big headed Jedi, the one on the Jedi council who looks like the Aliens from Close Encounters, those chick Jedi's, and of course newly CGI Yoda?

TIM (thinking that the harp solo on 'Darth Vader's Death' redeems any and all perceived flaws with the Jedi score)

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You're both insane then LOL

I agree....Hook is great! As far as changing scores, I don't think so. I like them as they are. They seemed to work not to mention they are John Williams original thoughts and therefore need no changes, because they are the best. Although, some of those changes would be interesting to hear.

My ranking

1) Return of the Jedi

2) Empire Strikes back

3) New Hope

4) Attack of the Clones

5) Phantom Menace

Brandon

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Morn, are you insane.  Star Wars is the best Star Wars score period.

sorry,Morn is right.ESB..evey single track is a mastepiece.In Star Wars,most of the incidental music inside the Death Star sequences is dull..I usually skip the middle part of the Star Wars score.

k.m.

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>>OR could Williams do something completely clever and take that wonderful choral cue when Luke finally jumps on Vader ("Sister! You have a twin sister"...), rework it slightly sinister and use that as new score for Episode III as the bad stuff happens to Anakin, et al?

That would be more amazing than you could possibly imagine...

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THAT'S what we should be doing - banging the drum to have good existing music written into the final prequel, not the other way around ...

I couldn't agree more.

Neil

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This will not win me many friends, but I do think that Williams should rework sections of the scores for all of the Star Wars films once Lucas finishes his "I-really-mean-it-this-time-these-are-the-final-versions-of-these-films-and-I'm-not-going-to-reedit-them-anymore." versions of the films. Think about the original edit of ESB. How magnificent the music built momentum at the end and how badly Lucas %$&@(*ed up by putting shots of Vader walking to his ship. And I've read reports that Lucas shot more material to edit into the original trilogy when filming Episode II...

Rescoring sections of the movies that Lucas has decided that need to be altered makes sense. What would you prefer: Williams to rescore, or more explicit music editing along the lines of what appears in Episode II?

Bruckhorn, who thinks Lucas needs to hire himself a writer and a director for Episode III and somebody with the confidence to tell him "No." and get him to listen to it.

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Brukhorn, you couldn't be more correct!!! The problem is that Lucas (like Michael Jackson) just has yes men around him. No one to real him in and tell him where he is going wrong. That's the problem when you become that big.... He needs to have some people around him that aren't afraid to say NO and he definitely needs a different writer and director for the third film.

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Do you consider The Empire Strikes Back as the most accomplished musically?

The final accomplishment was more on Return of the Jedi than Empire. Jedi had the disadvantage to be the one to conclude the trilogy, allowing less "lenience" than on Empire. There were already 4 hours of music written for the previous films, and even if George had added some new twists, Return of the Jedi couldn't be as innovative as the second episode. Musically, there was an enormous of work done harmonically and orchestrally, notably on the Imperial March, and I had to compose certain thematic derivations far from the first two films. The Emperor's theme is the prime example, because George didn't think I could translate all the mysticism of that character into music. Here again, the "Prokofiev" education was important, because a masculine chorus was somewhere invented by this Russian composer, notably in his operas. George was so delighted that he changed his mind on the kind of music needed for Luke's final combats. Jabba's theme was constructed like this too, with a kind of chromatic opposition between the tuba motif and other instruments. I like this slug a lot (laughs). My preference remains with Luke and Leia because the theme had to completely establish itself from the two first love themes, while sustaining the same atmosphere. The recording of that piece was my best moment on Return of the Jedi, because I re-interpreted my theme from the second movie. With this, we find again the idea of a cycle, and of three acts.

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