Benoit Blanc film series - Knives Out, Glass Onion

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I don't think it's hypocritical. "Disruptors" seem to be more of a parody of influencers than anything else that put up facades of being self-made but are actually being bankrolled behind the scenes.

[Edmilson 7,435]

Yeah, it's a pretty clear parody of Sillicon Valley start-ups and their so-called "disruptive" gurus - people like Elon or Steve Jobs. It has nothing to do with Hollywood filmmakers.

[Jay 37,351]

Yep

[rough cut 1,714]

OK.

[Sweeping Strings 2,356]

 I liked how Glass Onion actually is a whodunnit ... Knives Out is more of a 'whydunnit', really. 

[Richard Penna 3,685]

I presume Janelle Monáe is someone extremely well known in the States?

 

I keep getting videos ads on Twitter with the cast praising her as if getting her to do the movie was the best thing that ever happened.

[Jay 37,351]

extremely?

 

No.

[mstrox 6,651]

They’re a pretty decent sized pop star - not huge like a Beyoncé or Taylor Swift, maybe a tier or two below.

 

Watched this one over the weekend and thought it was really fun.  Monae was great, as was all the cast really.

[TolkienSS 407]

On 07/01/2023 at 10:40 PM, rough cut said:

I just mean that if we agree that the movie is a comment on disrupters, I think it’s funny since I see a parallel with how RJ wanted to “recontextualize” (i.e. disrupt) Star Wars with TLJ (in light of his latest interview on the subject as referenced here).

 

In that light, maybe the “point” of Glass Onion comes of as a tad hypocritical?

I’m just curious about the conversations during the script writing sessions, which discussions were held and how the creators let their own experiences shape the characters in the movie.

 

The man (kinda) who took a big smarmy dump on the Star Wars legend in order to "subvert", is making fun of "disruptors"?

Classy.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Yeah, because that’s an actual fact and not just, you know… your opinion. 🙄 

 

Yavar

[Jay 37,351]

Rian Johnson Talks Agatha Christie Inspiration, ‘Knives Out 3′ Plans and Screenwriting Success

[rough cut 1,714]

On 09/01/2023 at 2:33 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Yeah, because that’s an actual fact and not just, you know… your opinion. 🙄 

 

Yavar

What if we take @TolkienSS‘s post and strip it of opinion?

 

Actual quotes by RJ:

 

On 09/01/2023 at 12:20 PM, TolkienSS said:

The man (kinda) who took a big smarmy dump on the Star Wars legend in order to

The man who likened the intellectual property of one of the biggest franchises in the world to a Viking boat and said that his goal was to “burn [it] into the sea“ with the intent that it would “recontextualize everything that came before it“, and who also clearly has stated that his goal was to…

 

…"subvert", is making fun of "disruptors"?

@Jay @Edmilson @Yavar Moradi You guys know I enjoy our conversation and dialogue - so not picking a fight - but genuinely asking if you don’t see any parallels here?

[Jay 37,351]

I liked this film and enjoyed watching it immensely, and will enjoy watching it again some day.

 

I have absolutely no interest in analyzing its characters and trying to connect them to RJ's own experiences on some other movie.

 

Have fun.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

1 hour ago, rough cut said:

What if we take @TolkienSS‘s post and strip it of opinion?

 

Actual quotes by RJ:

 

@Jay @Edmilson @Yavar Moradi You guys know I enjoy our conversation and dialogue - so not picking a fight - but genuinely asking if you don’t see any parallels here?

Nope. As far as I’m concerned this attitude displays a lack of understanding of both The Last Jedi and Glass Onion, but I’ve really had my fill of wasting hours arguing about Rian Johnson with Rian Johnson haters, thanks.

 

Yavar

[rough cut 1,714]

OK then. I also thought Glass Onion was an enjoyable film, but I think the lack of willingness to have an interesting, intellectual discussion with actual arguments is an indication that there simply is no counter argument and that pride comes in the way of admitting fault - with the result being that the lack of arguments is to simply bow out by saying “I don’t want to” or “you’re simply wrong because you’re wrong”.

 

The first reply @Jay I can at least somewhat respect - I have no intention to force anybody to do anything - but the latter @Yavar Moradi is not only a cheap excuse but it is also insulting - and not a very smart reply. It says more about the author who wrote it than perhaps intended.

 

I tend to think that we can all like what we like - and like different things - without the consequence that different opinions by default should diminishes someone’s enjoyment. Especially when an invitation to discuss is done with respect and in good tone.

 

Shame that’s not the case.

 

But I will not drag this anymore, let’s pick up again on another discussion, in another thread, on another topic and let’s hope it can be more fruitful.

 

Can’t wait to discuss Knives Out 3! 😂

[HunterTech 989]

What is there to discuss? Glass Onion has very different priorities than TLJ did, and thus I really don't see what can possibly connect the two besides the same creator making both, and the fact both have commentary about the rich taking advantage of a situation (even if much more of a background element in the latter).

 

I'm rather grateful I waited to say anything, because given what I've read elsewhere about some people dropping negative reviews of the movie that don't try to hide their continued distain for TLJ 5 years later, it's hard to not see this as yet another attempt to reinforce how much this one man continues make a select few unnecessarily bitter. I don't want to state with absolute certainty that is what is happening here, but with how much that discourse has tired me out, I can't blame others for suggesting the dots have no real connection, if only because we want to discuss this franchise and this franchise alone.

 

(Though if I must, I would wager that the only reason RJ picked "disruptors" as a term to use in GO is to ensure he doesn't make any real life groups unhappy, given how much it's just ideologies and general concepts that are picked at and not insanely specific groups. Especially if Norton's character was intended to be an amalgamation of different billionaires, so I wouldn't put it past him to have similar thought processes with other aspects of the story.)

[rough cut 1,714]

3 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Go educate Mattris about kisses or something.

If it hadn’t been for this comment, I almost would have mistaken your post as serious, too bad you had to end it in a personal attack, but at least you show your true colors.

[HunterTech 989]

Guess I posted that addendum way too late 

 

Sarcasm sucks in textual form, so by no means was my one off joke supposed to invalidate the whole fucking post. I was just being cute because that particular thread hit a new point in absurdity, so excuse me if I wanted to make a reference to lighten the mood a bit. If anything, you almost prove my point more if you couldn't humor yourself for one bloody second.

[rough cut 1,714]

I’ve got plenty of humor! I just don’t like being treated like a bitch! 

[HunterTech 989]

All this concern about having to be careful in my wording to the point of constant editing, and I still fumbled it with my original final line

 

The other 95% is still supposed to be my legitimate take here, so it's not like I was spouting pure word salad until I tried too hard to be clever for a shoe horned in punchline. SW has kind of been ruined for me as a result of all the ST discourse, so I certainly am to blame for bringing it up if that wasn't where the conversation was propositioned to go towards. And yet the lack of real response from some of the others does make it seem like my position is shared at least partially, so you decide what to make of that.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

I just don't think he's saying anything in that quote other than a story should strive for its own grand finale to its own experience whether it's the second or fourth or hundredth in a series, and that he thinks a lot of middle franchise entries end up feeling too open-ended and indifferent by the end because they're more concerned with being one piece in the puzzle and not a complete puzzle unto itself. But I don't think Rian Johnson can metaphorically refer to burning anything now without annoying people lol. 

 

The other thing it reminds me of is the Lawrence Kasdan quote of Empire being Act 2 in the old "Act 1 get your characters up in a tree, Act 2 throw rocks at them, Act 3 get them out of the tree" structure. I guess it's the choice of rocks.

[rough cut 1,714]

36 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

All this concern about having to be careful in my wording to the point of constant editing, and I still fumbled it with my original final line

 

The other 95% is still supposed to be my legitimate take here, so it's not like I was spouting pure word salad until I tried too hard to be clever for a shoe horned in punchline. SW has kind of been ruined for me as a result of all the ST discourse, so I certainly am to blame for bringing it up if that wasn't where the conversation was propositioned to go towards. And yet the lack of real response from some of the others does make it seem like my position is shared at least partially, so you decide what to make of that.

 

Has there really been a lack of response? Some - including yourself and @Tallguy - have answered thoughtfully, while others clearly just got offended by my observation (not intended to offend) about the director/movie and just decided to kill the conversation (when is this ever ok, btw?).

 

What gets on my tits are people entering a discussion and then dismissing it - or defaulting to insults - as soon as there is the slightest pushback. If you cannot logically argue your point, why even bother getting into the discussion at all?

 

We’re all regulars on this forum and if one can’t take a little banter - or an opposing opinion - then I don’t think there would be any point in any of us being regular posters. We will all “see” each other again in other threads, so I always think it’s good to reply with respect - that doesn’t mean you have to agree though.

 

Anyway - lack of response or not - I don’t intend to push this idea any further. I am sure I’ll find some other way to - unintentionally - piss someone off…

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

7 hours ago, rough cut said:

OK then. I also thought Glass Onion was an enjoyable film, but I think the lack of willingness to have an interesting, intellectual discussion with actual arguments is an indication that there simply is no counter argument and that pride comes in the way of admitting fault - with the result being that the lack of arguments is to simply bow out by saying “I don’t want to” or “you’re simply wrong because you’re wrong”.

 

The first reply @Jay I can at least somewhat respect - I have no intention to force anybody to do anything - but the latter @Yavar Moradi is not only a cheap excuse but it is also insulting - and not a very smart reply. It says more about the author who wrote it than perhaps intended.

 

Huh? You're the one insulting ME with these comments. I certainly didn't insult you -- quote me the insult if I did! I also didn't give a "cheap excuse" not to engage in a debate on this subject. I expressed a lack of interest in spending my time on a subject I've more than had my fill of.

 

Rian Johnson has now joined the likes of George Lucas and James Cameron, where I derive little joy in spending long hours debating their work with people. I might make a little comment here and there (like pointing out that TolkienSS was acting like his opinions were fact), but getting pulled into a debate that's going to use up HOURS of my life? No thanks, I've done that for far too many hours of my life and to me it is NOT WORTH IT. So if you want someone to actively debate The Last Jedi or The Glass Onion with, please find someone else. I've got nothing against you and you're free to dislike or like whatever you like. I simply have no interest in spending hours debating a subject I've tired of debating. Guess what? I'm also not going to spend hours explaining to people why the Star Wars prequels are terrible (and apart from some admirably lofty ambitions, SO much worse than the sequel trilogy which I readily admit fell apart by the end) any more. I have a life, a 15 year marriage, and an adorable kitty. I have a five-year-old film music podcast that I pour much of my remaining free time and energy into. And on top of that I spend more time than I should on social media and film music forums. I am NOT going to let another Rian Johnson (or George Lucas, or James Cameron, or whatever divisive nerdy thing) debate derail my day/week any longer. I don't care enough about the slim chance of changing some internet stranger's mind on most of these subjects.

 

7 hours ago, rough cut said:

I tend to think that we can all like what we like - and like different things - without the consequence that different opinions by default should diminishes someone’s enjoyment. Especially when an invitation to discuss is done with respect and in good tone.

Shame that’s not the case.

 

Again, while I was a bit curt in my answer and perhaps came across as cold in terms of tone (though tone is VERY hard to read online), I certainly didn't intend any offense or express a lack of respect for you personally. And people are free to dislike The Last Jedi all they want. It's just that I'm done with hashing over the subject ad infinitum on the internet.

Yavar

[rough cut 1,714]

16 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

As far as I’m concerned this attitude displays a lack of understanding of both

Thanks for taking the time to state your position. This is the quote I found to be condescending due to the fact that it is unspecific about what exactly my understanding is lacking or what I am wrong about. It is very hard to reply to something like this. I would object and say that I do have an understanding of both. I also had no intention to insult anyone, rather call out what I perceive is a type of bullying behavior.

 

But I understand your position from your reply, and gather that no ill will was meant. I have no intention of derailing anyone’s week (and no less my own). I am assuming we all visit this forum to have fun and discuss & read about the things we love, not to fight (based on my own inclination, at least).

 

I was in no way trying to jump on the “RJ hate-train”, I think KO is a great movie, GO a good movie, and TLJ a bad movie, so I’d say I have a rather nuanced opinion of the man. But also, that the movies “bleed” into eachother, and that - to some degree - it’s hard to discuss one without the other.

[Sweeping Strings 2,356]

Of his movies to date ... I wasn't keen on Brick or Looper, haven't seen The Brothers Bloom (it's one of those situations where somebody I hate loves it, and that puts me off. Not sure I'm missing that much anyway), didn't mind The Last Jedi, and liked Knives Out and Glass Onion.  

[Thor 7,494]

I'm somewhat different. Absolutely love LOOPER, it's his best to date. BRICK and THE BROTHERS BLOOM were okay. I dig THE LAST JEDI, and what Johnson added to the universe, his unique take. Not keen on the KNIVES films.

[rough cut 1,714]

For the fans.

 

 

[Jay 37,351]

Huh, nifty.  I wonder how many films have streaming-exclusive commentary tracks?

[Jay 37,351]

Anybody here listen to that?

[rough cut 1,714]

There are summaries online.

 

Collider: 10 Things We Learned From Rian Johnson’s ‘Glass Onion’ Commentary Track

Spoiler

• Due to COVID Restrictions, Most of ‘Glass Onion’s Extras Are Friends and Crew Members
• There Is a SpaceX Employee in the Movie
• What Is Real and What Was Added in Post
• There Are Nods to Various Whodunits Everywhere in the Movie
• Johnson Also Added a Little Something for the Theater Kids
• Daniel Craig Was Inspired by Jacques Tati and Cary Grant
• Edward Norton Came Up with Miles’ Frank T.J. Mackey Outfit
• The Glass Sculptures in Miles’ Living Room Are All References to Beatles' Songs
• Helen’s Children Were Cut from the Movie
• For Johnson, ‘Glass Onion’s Message Isn’t Eat the Rich

 

Netflix: 10 Things We Learned from Rian Johnson’s New ‘Glass Onion’ Commentary

Spoiler

• There were plenty of alternatives in Lionel’s Miles fax pile.
• COVID restrictions led to quite a few crew members taking on-screen roles.
• Ethan Hawke shot for one day.
• Yes, the hourly dong was Joseph Gordon-Levitt.
• Blanc’s colorful costuming had some old-fashioned inspirations.
• There are quite a few musical Easter eggs.
• Edward Norton showed up in his flashback costume without warning.
• You can tell Helen and Andi apart based on their hair.
• An excised subplot introduced Helen’s family.
• They had to burn the paintings — for real.

 

Mashable: 10 Things We Learned From Rian Johnson’s ‘Glass Onion’ Director’s Commentary

Spoiler

• Rian Johnson has an unexpected cameo in Glass Onion.
• What were some of Glass Onion's deleted scenes?
• Helen originally had kids in Glass Onion.
• Johnson offers a deep dive into Glass Onion's whodunnit influences.
• Miles Bron has a murder tracksuit.
• "Eat the rich" is not the main point of Knives Out or Glass Onion.
• Every clue in Glass Onion is hidden in plain sight.
• Glass Onion is full of treats for musical theater fans.
• Glass Onion stars a SpaceX employee.
• The glass sculptures in Miles Bron's house are Beatles Easter eggs.

 

[Brónach 1,302]

By far I prefer the first one. Although the characters in the second one give space for some fun gags (and that's about it), it's nowhere near as cleanly written. And the overall location is prettier, although the techbro mansion being like that comes with the territory i suppose.

[Jay 37,351]

There is also the matter of the third movie in the trilogy that began with “Knives Out” and continued with “Glass Onion.” Johnson joked that it was Bergman who had put me up to asking the question. “It’s coming along. I obviously couldn’t work during the strike, and now that it’s over, I’m diving in full force, and so it’s coming along. I’ve got the premise, I’ve got the setting, I’ve got what the movie is in my head. It’s just a matter of writing the damn thing,” Johnson said.

 

https://www.thewrap.com/fair-play-netflix-t-street-rian-johnson-ram-bergman-chloe-domont-interview/

[GerateWohl 4,357]

So at last we get the Rian Johnson trilogy.