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Alan Menken's The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) - 2021 Walt Disney Records Legacy Collection


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24 minutes ago, Drawgoon said:

For many others this is just a job - complete with all its coordination difficulties, problems, set-backs, and all the internals politics and external life challenges involved with every job and career.

 

Hey, we have a separate thread for this.

 

 

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The Entre act music from the 2017 musical is a fantastic piece of choral music btw. Makes a nice “end credits” track to this expanded score (of course it wasn’t recorded at Air Lyndhurts so it will obviously sound different than the 1996 music.

 

It’s also been a devil to learn this piece for the show lol.

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Don't complain too much guys. Remember we missed out on flawed but still better than nothing UEs of AOtC and RotS because people bitched and moaned about TPM UE. I want my Aladdin, Hercules, Mulan and The Rescuers Down Under LCs.

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7 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Don't complain too much guys. Remember we missed out on flawed but still better than nothing UEs of AOtC and RotS because people bitched and moaned about TPM UE. I want my Aladdin, Hercules, Mulan and The Rescuers Down Under LCs.

 

Sure. Better than nothing I suppose. I'm just quite frustrated by this. I know I'll calm down and get over it, but I would argue that TPM UE was still better assembled than this. If it wasn't such basic editing issues that one does on every album than I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed. There's a very big difference to me in weird film edits vs pops, glitches, lack of proper fades, drop-outs, etc. Two very different kinds of low effort to me I suppose. Either that or a massive blunder.

 

I don't care how much I like the music, I won't buy or support these if this is how they're going to be released from now on. Why should I show my support for half-assed crap like this? I'll run quality control if I need to. Lol. Mistakes happen, I've made plenty of them, but at this point, in my line of work, I triple check everything these days: Before I hit export, review immediately after export, and I review again after approval before I send out for final release.

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38 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

In my opinion, none of that should matter, regardless of if it's "just a job" or a passion project.

 

It's still the professionals responsibility to do a good job. This is full of absolute rookie mistakes. Personally, based purely on hearing some of the mistakes present, I would not hire whoever worked on this for anything music or audio related, regardless of the context or the struggles. Those come with every job like this and most releases do not have this many basic issues. Not that I could hire this person or that they'd ever want to do any work with me anyways, but you know, conceptually speaking. 

 

Regardless of the crap you have to deal with or how they feel about the music this is, in my opinion, unacceptable. Look, things can honestly just slip through, there was one or two errors on the Potter boxset for example. One or Two technical issues across 7 full discs of music is understandable. This, however, just exudes either an extreme lack of care or a technical ineptitude, whether on the employee side or the company side. You should never send out something that will make you look this bad if you have the ability to make it better.

 

Even doing just a job, you should still be able to 1.) put aside any personal feelings you have about the material and 2.) have the technical chops to put together something that seems like there was some effort put in. If you cannot do that (especially getting over personal feelings) then you should not take the job. I have personally pulled all-nighters to tweak and smooth out everything I can just before a deadline in the past on some things that I certainly didn't have a passion for. Shouldn't have to do that necessarily, but things happen and my standards for myself and my work are simply too high to put out something with things I can fix in time or that makes it look like I didn't care (even if, again, the passion isn't always there)

 

The only way I'd be willing to let someone slide a bit for this is if Disney literally gave them 2 days to assemble the entire set or something. We don't know everything of course, that could easily be true, it's Disney and my skeptical mind doesn't think Disney really cares about a whole lot artistically, but I can't help but be infuriated. This had to have gone through a number of people before it went out surely? And they were all okay with this? Unless of course it was an accident? Did they grab a temp master? 

 

TL;DR - There could be excuses we don't know, it could be a mix-up or an extremely crunched deadline on Disney's part, but it being "just a job" is not a valid excuse in my book. Get over it and get it done right.

 

EDIT: I should clarify that of course there will be times that creatively there is incompatibility and someone is simply not right for a project, but I really don't think that would affect technical issues like this. That would result more in things like incorrect takes, or leaving a great cue off or something (which did also happen here). Most of these issues seem to be technical related, which I just don't get how you'd accomplish that with something like this.

 

 

Agreed 100%. And you raise an interesting point... What if they accidentally released a temp master? I doubt it, but you never know. To my ears, there are just way too many screw-ups to explain how something like this got released as an actual final product. And you're right; just because something is a job and the person/people working on it may not be "fans" or even like the project - doesn't mean all these errors are acceptable. If anything, it should be *less* acceptable, since these people are getting *paid* to do this.

 

12 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

I know I'll calm down and get over it, but I would argue that TPM UE was still better assembled than this.

 

It was.

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1 hour ago, TSMefford said:

The only way I'd be willing to let someone slide a bit for this is if Disney literally gave them 2 days to assemble the entire set or something. We don't know everything of course, that could easily be true, it's Disney and my skeptical mind doesn't think Disney really cares about a whole lot artistically, but I can't help but be infuriated. This had to have gone through a number of people before it went out surely? And they were all okay with this? Unless of course it was an accident? Did they grab a temp master? 

 

TL;DR - There could be excuses we don't know, it could be a mix-up or an extremely crunched deadline on Disney's part, but it being "just a job" is not a valid excuse in my book. Get over it and get it done right.

 

I completely agree that 'just a job' isn't a good excuse for creative mistakes, but I think it's dangerous to assume that just because it's Disney, they gave whoever did it all the time and resoruces they needed.

 

I think that the more niche a product is, the more emotional consumers get in response to finding flaws, and we're at the extreme end of that. When I heard the editing flub in Sleepy Hollow, I was disappointed, but thought ok, someone's made a mistake in an otherwise great package - hopefully they can fix it and be more vigilant in the future.

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

 Oh dear, I'm so sad we didn't get a bunch of awfully hacked up TPM material officially released alongside all the stuff that leaked in other places anyway.

24345559.gif

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36 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I completely agree that 'just a job' isn't a good excuse for creative mistakes, but I think it's dangerous to assume that just because it's Disney, they gave whoever did it all the time and resoruces they needed.

 

I think that the more niche a product is, the more emotional consumers get in response to finding flaws, and we're at the extreme end of that. When I heard the editing flub in Sleepy Hollow, I was disappointed, but thought ok, someone's made a mistake in an otherwise great package - hopefully they can fix it and be more vigilant in the future.

 

I see where you're coming from. Which is why I tried to add that it's entirely possible that it's a Disney issue in my post, but even still, I feel like most of these mistakes are easily avoidable by a trained professional. That's the other thing too is that if it was one or two flubs then that's one thing, but that massive list posted by @Holko is ridiculous! 

 

I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts though. It's certainly possible and even likely that it's a Disney thing.

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Most of that list seems to be complaining that the set is mastered gaplessly. The issue with The Cathedral sounds to me like source material problems, and yeah, the missing couple of minutes is unfortunate. It's not like it's unreleased though.

 

Not one of those issues qualifies this set as 'trash' though. Reads more to me as 'I'd like to make some tweaks, and I'm furious that the producer didn't make those same decisions initially'.

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58 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Most of that list seems to be complaining that the set is mastered gaplessly. The issue with The Cathedral sounds to me like source material problems, and yeah, the missing couple of minutes is unfortunate. It's not like it's unreleased though.

 

Not one of those issues qualifies this set as 'trash' though. Reads more to me as 'I'd like to make some tweaks, and I'm furious that the producer didn't make those same decisions initially'.


You don't think 1:34 in "Out There" is downright sloppy editing? Listen to the string note when Frollo enters, after the strings already finished playing... Compare it to the original album version of the song. Pretty sure something like that could have easily been fixed/avoided.

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14 hours ago, Holko said:

1-18 And He Shall Smite The Wicked - the Big One. 8:02- we have 2 minutes missing, can be patched in with 1:38-end of the OST track of the same name. As released, the OST track version's missing a brass stinger insert/overlay at 1:49, can be ripped from the film if desired.

 

Holko, Thanks for your insight!  I'm a bit confused- where do we patch in the OST track to fix track 18 on the Legacy?  I love the OST version.

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That is SO bizarre to hear there are issues with Hunchback.  On one hand I adore this score and I am thrilled to have much of the missing music back, but omitting the last part of "And He Shall Smite The Wicked" just seems not right.  They seriously need to patch this.  If not, can someone PM me a patched version?  I find it unfortunate to hear what I consider  Menken's magnum opus compromised in spite of having the additional music.

 

And yes, I AM the same person who commented on Intrada's forums.  I am flattered to be recognized.

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I also wanted to comment on how I feel about the 2016 Paper Mill House Recording.  As great as the film's score is, I like the direction of the musical much more.  I like how it's darker and more nuanced.  Also, I thought all the performances on the CD were really excellent.  I will admit that at first when I saw the show I wasn't sure what to make of Arden's Quasi, but when I realized he was supposed to be death, I quickly understood.  And he does bring a lot of emotional passion to the role, which is absolutely great.  Patrick Page obviously is no Tony Jay (of course), but his Frollo is still really impressive, his reindition of "Hellfire" especially bringing out his range.  Jay will always be immortal, but Page is just as good for different reasons IMO.

 

Oh, need I mention that this is probably my favorite of Menken's works?

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Remember Bruce Botnick mentioned there was 160 minutes of material on this release. Anybody confirm that? It does not seem like that is indeed the case. Between what he said verses the final product, something got screwed up.

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29 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I get that there are definitely issues with the set, but I don't think that swearing all the time and describing it as 'trash' is the most productive response.

Making up excuses for shoddy work and trying to ignore problems is a better response?

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8 minutes ago, Holko said:

They wouldn't, or certainly not on the scale and in the numbers as on this set if the people given the honor to do justice to these pieces of art would put some fucking pride into their work and have any sort of basic fucking standards. Even our beloved specialty labels, how many replacements are in progress right now? Is it really that hard to just give it a listen before asking 30-50 dollars for it? And then comes "are you sure those are mistakes", "oh you're just complaining" and "don't call out those faults, I want more sets with faults" and I just can't help but try and express honestly enough how goddamn frustrated I am with this pile of situations. And I'm still holding back. Certainly tried to keep the actual fault breakdown and fix guide cool enough.

Totally agreed. I’ve not yet heard it but this seems like more than an unfortunate error. It’s an entire catalogue of errors spoiling what should be a definitive release of a sublime score/musical. If nothing else, Alan Menken must surely be pissed. Maybe people should express their disappointment with the release to him on Twitter or something (super politely and in the context of the production not aiming the ire at him).  

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55 minutes ago, Jay said:

I agree with Richard Penna


Me too, to an extent. These mistakes should not have occurred given the people behind this release. However, I am nonetheless grateful for this release. It took sometime, but I was able to make the necessary adjustments and corrections needed; it was a fun little project. Once I get the set in the mail, it is just a simple matter of burning all corrected material with everything else onto a new CD and swiping out the first CD with the new one. I still get my money’s worth; everything worked out. 
 

Would I react differently if, say, a release from Maestro John Williams had these issues? Well… Thankfully there has not been a lot of instances where that would apply, nor will there be.

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The 1996 ET, 1998 CE3K, and 2002 ET releases are full of mistakes, but Mike Matessino eventually gave those scores definitive versions

 

The 2008 Indy box is full of mistakes and we still await a MM version...

 

The 2012 Hook has more mistakes than all of those put together, and we still await a definitive MM edition of that as well...

 

Ford Thaxton also put a ton of wrong takes on the 1993 version of Star Wars, and we eventually got all the right takes on the 1997 set.

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Those never occurred to me. I’m use to two things: original soundtrack albums, and the Maestro’s collaboration with Mike Mattessino on the expanded and remastered releases of his work.

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

The 1996 ET, 1998 CE3K, and 2002 ET releases are full of mistakes, but Mike Matessino eventually gave those scores definitive versions

 

The 2008 Indy box is full of mistakes and we still await a MM version...

And certain companies are seemingly still stuck in that dark era of a decade+ ago.

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58 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

However, I am nonetheless grateful for this release. It took sometime, but I was able to make the necessary adjustments and corrections needed; it was a fun little project. Once I get the set in the mail, it is just a simple matter of burning all corrected material with everything else onto a new CD and swiping out the first CD with the new one. I still get my money’s worth; everything worked out. 

Not to target you specifically at all, but you provided good foundations here to further explain what's so wrong with all this.

I recognise I'm overreacting somewhat too, two days later and I have my perfect complete Hunchback - but if it was so quick and simple to correct, and they couldn't even recognise/do that, is it really as much of an overreaction? 

Sure you're getting your money's worth, but no thanks to them, the actual product you receive comes with a hidden "some assembly required" label and you put it aside to replace it with your own work.

And what about all the people who can't/won't rip, edit, reprint? We're a tiny passionate sliver of a subcommunity, all those just listening to the discs or on Spotify to the lack of transition smoothing, the glitches, dropouts, the lack of a climax, can't do anything about it except write the release (or even the score) off, go back to the OST or go listen to some epic remix covers or something. These wide releases have to be perfect out of the box for all their sakes.

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48 minutes ago, Holko said:

Not to target you specifically at all, but you provided good foundations here to further explain what's so wrong with all this.

I recognise I'm overreacting somewhat too, two days later and I have my perfect complete Hunchback - but if it was so quick and simple to correct, and they couldn't even recognise/do that, is it really as much of an overreaction? 

Sure you're getting your money's worth, but no thanks to them, the actual product you receive comes with a hidden "some assembly required" label and you put it aside to replace it with your own work.

And what about all the people who can't/won't rip, edit, reprint? We're a tiny passionate sliver of a subcommunity, all those just listening to the discs or on Spotify to the lack of transition smoothing, the glitches, dropouts, the lack of a climax, can't do anything about it except write the release (or even the score) off, go back to the OST or go listen to some epic remix covers or something. These wide releases have to be perfect out of the box for all their sakes.


Very true and valid points, hence why agreed with Richard to an extent. The corrections/adjustments should never have needed to be done in the first place.

39 minutes ago, jacksparrow900 said:

The beginning of Frollo's Judgement is missing the chanting  that is heard in the film


My corrections and adjustments aside, I was disappointed this was not included. It is a source cue; the church choir is beautiful.

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9 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm not intending to do either of those, just merely respond to them in a more justified way.

 

Mistakes happen, and creative decisions disagreed with, and most other people here are happy with the 'that's really unfortunate... wonder if it can be fixed?'. You just go straight to swearing and caling something worthless.

 

I just don't think that approach helps the situation, sorry.

 

(as for why I may seem 'apologist' about it... I'm just thankful that some of these releases happen, and things can be patched/tweaked, but then I like tweaking things anyway. I agree it's not an excuse for propery shoddy work though.)

 

You're right. I apologize for my rant. 

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4 hours ago, Once said:

Like me. :( I've cancelled my pre-order and I'm waiting to see if these issues will be fixed.


Just out of curiosity, how did you cancel your pre-order? Did you order directly via Disney Music Emporium?

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2 hours ago, JohnnyD said:


Just out of curiosity, how did you cancel your pre-order? Did you order directly via Disney Music Emporium?

No, I put in an order at my favourite local music store. I like to support them when possible (as I'd like them to stay!) and they're very good at ordering home soundtrack albums, even from speciality labels.

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42 minutes ago, Drawgoon said:

Got to say, glitches aside, this set is truly impressive. Every note of this work still sends a chill down my spines - even those demos. No wonder that decade was called the Disney Renaissance. I only wish Menken could be brought back to the mainstream for more stuff like this, and not just reworking his older works for those vastly inferior live-action adaptions.

 Speaking of, isn’t Hunchback supposedly getting the live-action remake treatment? I seem to remember Josh Gaad lobbying for that. Menken would completely astound with another go at this score. Probably less Mickey mousing. And (fingers crossed) a more tragic ending. Oh yeah. I want this to happen just for his score.

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