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The Book of Boba Fett (Spoilers allowed for all aired episodes)


Jay
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42 minutes ago, Hedji said:

So, maybe if it's not enjoyable, find something you do like.


Maybe, for a franchise like Star Wars - that many have been following for 40+ years, played with the toys, invested in - it’s not as simple as to say “nah, I don’t like it” and turn it off. I guess we’re all curious to see how it plays out.

 

No matter what people think - good or bad - it’s absurd to try to quiet either group by saying “stop complaining, you’re stupid if you do, go watch something else” which is what you’re saying between the lines.

 

Let people like what they like - and express their opinion about it.

 

In either group you’ll have more and less eloquent ways of how people express themselves, and - in spite of most views expressed here has been negative - I think most of the comments have been quite nuanced with examples given of what they didn’t like, or suggestions of how to “fix” the problem.

 

What a boring place this would be without that discussion.

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For me the key issue is spinning off Boba Fett into his own show from a show that should have been about Boba Fett in the first place. If "the" Mandalorian had been Fett in the first place, it would have worked fine. He was still bounty hunting and he would have had a clear narrative turning him a bit softer - Grogu and they could have had a single flashback episode during the first season with all the Tusken Raiders stuff after his Sarlacc escape. But as they decided to do a Mandalorian show with an entirely new character they had to do something else with Fett that didn't really remotely feel anything like anyone would have imagined based on his ruthless characterisation in the original films - sure he's technically a minor character, but almost all of his actions suggest something ruthless and not something who'd decide to give it all up to run a town. It would have made a whole lot more sense if it had been a revenge show where he goes after Han and Luke, or Vader, or whomever but let's face it, that would have been difficult to work into the more widely established narrative without even bigger plot contortions than they have already had to think up.

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In one way, I can sympathize with the 'storytelling' aspect of it all; the one that STAR WARS super-fans care so much about -- that everything needs to be tied neatly together and make sense in the greater EU. I have it the same way for the ALIEN franchise (did you know that SOLDIER is actually part of the ALIEN universe, for example?).

 

But the amount of talent and dedication involved in this show should account for something, at least. Filoni -- perhaps the greatest STAR WARS EU connaiseur in the industry -- makes sure that it's all tied together. Favreau can be good when he's inspired, and I feel like he is here. Say what you will of Rodriguez (he's often hit and miss), but I feel like he's pushing his best like in his wonderful 90s efforts.

 

If one can take one step back from the storytelling aspects and one's own "super fandom", I feel like they've succeeded marvelously in allowing us exploration within the STAR WARS places (which is my main attraction to these shows in the first place). I also feel they've added aspects that fill in character developments in the EU as a whole.

 

BOBA FETT has been all over the place in terms of narrative, but I feel like that's part of its strength, not a weakness. It's a gung-ho approach that sorta encapsulates the chaotic reality of Tatooine at this point in time. What's been amazing (at least to me) is to explore the worlds and the characters in more detail -- and, quite importantly, to acknowledge the existence of story elements from the prequels, which I've always loved and defended.

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1 minute ago, rough cut said:

No way!

 

Soldier is part of Blade Runner, not Alien. Prove me wrong! :)

 

But BLADE RUNNER is part of ALIEN, according to various sources. Hence it's part of it by proxy.

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

 

And yeah, I guess I’m one of the unwashed rabble that just likes interconnected universe stuff. 

 

 

That's one the worst trends of current film and tv entertainment. I wish it would just go away. And take post credits scene with it

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I heard, after I watched the finale of Boba Fett, that there was a post credit scene that I’d missed.

 

I guess I couldn’t wait to turn off the show fast enough when it was finally over, if you know what I mean… ;)

 

But I’m still curious, what was it about? Anything that made sense?

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5 minutes ago, rough cut said:

I heard, after I watched the finale of Boba Fett, that there was a post credit scene that I’d missed.

 

I guess I couldn’t wait to turn off the show fast enough when it was finally over, if you know what I mean… ;)

 

But I’m still curious, what was it about? Anything that made sense?

Cobb Vanth in the bacta tank about to be modded by Thundercat ala Fennec.

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I had today a conversation with my son about that I don't like how Boba also tends to do what he is told by others. My son, who knows The Clone Wars much better than I so, that this is what Boba Fett does all the time. Probably TESB was the only time where he was cool and taking action on his own behalf. So, according to him this series is very well in character.

 

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Just now, Datameister said:

The only reason that's an issue is that he's the boss now; he's always worked for others, but now he should be calling the shots. (That being said, this particular problem didn't stand out that much for me. More concerning was my inability to understand why he was doing...well, most of the stuff he did.)

Because all bounty hunters want to do is settle down and run a town on a desert planet. Obviously. ;-)

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2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

For me the key issue is spinning off Boba Fett into his own show from a show that should have been about Boba Fett in the first place. If "the" Mandalorian had been Fett in the first place, it would have worked fine. He was still bounty hunting and he would have had a clear narrative turning him a bit softer - Grogu and they could have had a single flashback episode during the first season with all the Tusken Raiders stuff after his Sarlacc escape. But as they decided to do a Mandalorian show with an entirely new character they had to do something else with Fett that didn't really remotely feel anything like anyone would have imagined based on his ruthless characterisation in the original films - sure he's technically a minor character, but almost all of his actions suggest something ruthless and not something who'd decide to give it all up to run a town. It would have made a whole lot more sense if it had been a revenge show where he goes after Han and Luke, or Vader, or whomever but let's face it, that would have been difficult to work into the more widely established narrative without even bigger plot contortions than they have already had to think up.

I agree. If this series had rather been about taking revenge on Cad Bane instead of taking Jabba's place it would have been much better probably. But apart from the story my main issue is, like @Holkosaid rightfully Rodriguez action sucks. That's probably (besides the score) my main issue. Therefore, I would say, the third episode was the best, and for me, only enjoyable part of the show.

2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

The Boba Fett we knew died when Lucas wrote the script of "Attack of the Clones".

Imagine what had happened, If George Lucas hadn't cut out the scenes from Revenge of the Sith with the young Han Solo.

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10 hours ago, Thor said:

Has something happened that I'm not aware of? For the first few pages of this thread, there were deconstructions that pointed out both positive and negative things, but now I'm reading stuff like "awful", "shit" and "pitiful"?!? Really?

You're only confused because you've sucked all the nuance out of the discussion by reducing it to a few negative terms out of context. I said the current state of Star Wars is pitiful comparatively to what it once was.

I just find it sad that your love for a show is fueled by people not liking it, that's textbook contrarianism right there

8 hours ago, Thor said:

In one way, I can sympathize with the 'storytelling' aspect of it all; the one that STAR WARS super-fans care so much about -- that everything needs to be tied neatly together and make sense in the greater EU. I have it the same way for the ALIEN franchise (did you know that SOLDIER is actually part of the ALIEN universe, for example?).

 

But the amount of talent and dedication involved in this show should account for something, at least. Filoni -- perhaps the greatest STAR WARS EU connaiseur in the industry -- makes sure that it's all tied together. Favreau can be good when he's inspired, and I feel like he is here. Say what you will of Rodriguez (he's often hit and miss), but I feel like he's pushing his best like in his wonderful 90s efforts.

 

If one can take one step back from the storytelling aspects and one's own "super fandom", I feel like they've succeeded marvelously in allowing us exploration within the STAR WARS places (which is my main attraction to these shows in the first place). I also feel they've added aspects that fill in character developments in the EU as a whole.

 

BOBA FETT has been all over the place in terms of narrative, but I feel like that's part of its strength, not a weakness. It's a gung-ho approach that sorta encapsulates the chaotic reality of Tatooine at this point in time. What's been amazing (at least to me) is to explore the worlds and the characters in more detail -- and, quite importantly, to acknowledge the existence of story elements from the prequels, which I've always loved and defended.


I care about the storytelling in the context of the stand-alone show. I could very much do without all the interconnectivity because I feel like that bogs down the show and muddies the focus. You seem to find it amazing that the show has the intent of exploring those worlds and characters in more detail, but why do you not care about how that's actually handled? Are your standards simply that an attempt is made, because if so those are some incredibly low standards for story-telling

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The interconnected nature of the show and it's ability to tie into other media is useless if the story it's contained in is shit. Most of the MCU films thrive on this menagerie of references to things that have come before, but that charade falls away when you try to make a movie with little substance other than the fact it contains characters and references to other films.

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Anyway, I am confident, that the Obi-Wan mini series will be much better. Deborah Chow did a great job with her Mandalorian Episodes. And this show is not unlimited. It is defined for, I think three or six episodes? Therefore, I hope they will not fill episodes with scenes with meaningless chitchat between Luke and Asoka or droids bulding a hut or Luke running a parcour with Grogu on his back.

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12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Overall, I certainly had fun watching the show and glad it exists, and the score is great, but some writing choices are just bizarre to me.

 

You just summed it all up. 

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Well, Boba Fett kind of hijacked Mando's show by the end of S2. Once the Razor Crest was destroyed, Mando needed Boba to get around and accomplish his goals.

 

Here, Mando returns the favor by hijacking Boba's show. Without Mando's help directly and indirectly, Boba would not survive the final battle. 

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11 hours ago, Positivatee said:

Well, Boba Fett kind of hijacked Mando's show by the end of S2. Once the Razor Crest was destroyed, Mando needed Boba to get around and accomplish his goals.

 

Here, Mando returns the favor by hijacking Boba's show. Without Mando's help directly and indirectly, Boba would not survive the final battle. 

All true, but BF in The Mandalorian was a nice cameo but after plenty of time getting to know Din Djarin and it didn't cut away entirely to tell BF's story during The Mandalorian (wasn't that kinda the point of doing BOBF?!). I don't have any great problem with the shows crossing over, but in The Mandalorian, the crossover felt earned (to the extent these things can be) and didn't take focus totally away from the main character, but that's what happened in BOBF. This wouldn't be quite so bad if this was the second or third season of BOBF where a little diversion for an episode might be a nice change of pace, but when it's 2 episodes of a 7 part serial, which itself is essentially two stories/timelines told in parallel, it's an unnecessary extra diversion.

 

As Jay said, getting Grogu back to Mando seemed like a cathartic thing that should have happened in The Mandalorian itself (clearly it should be how season 3 of Mando ends) and while Grogu was an element in the BOBF finale, I'm sure the writers could easily have come up with something that didn't require Grogu. Din Djarin being there to save the day would have been more than sufficient without undercutting the emotional resonance of his relationship with Grogu by hijacking that element for almost a third of BOBF. Indeed it would have made more sense for BOBF to be a cameo/side adventure for Mando, the only consequence of which might have been something happening during BOBF that provided the impetus for season 3 of The Mandalorian (him realising he needs Grogu back or something) rather than it actually happening outside of his own show.

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It seems foolhardy that Luke would freely let such a powerful Force being out into the universe without full training about how to control his powers.

 

He must know that Grogu feels love for his friend, but love without discipline is a powder keg. Asohka knows firsthand. Anakin's jealous love and fear allowed him to be destroyed. 

 

Is Luke knowingly allowing Grogu to face the same fate? If the sequel trilogy remains canon, we already know that Luke ultimately is a terrible Jedi teacher. 

 

Bring back the EU where Luke isn't a douche. 

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18 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

Bring back the EU where Luke isn't a douche.

 

How many times did Luke go to the dark side (at least for a bit) in the EU? I seem to remember at least twice although I gather there were more. 

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I couldn’t agree more with this.

 

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

This bringing back Grogu to the Mandalorian had a flair of TROS like JJ Abrams turning back most of the story decisions of Rian Johnson like Restoring Ren's mask, taking Rose out of the story, letting Luke say "Don't treat a light saber like that, Rey not being noone etc.


Disney seemed to backtrack extremely fast on separating Mando and Grogu.

 

What bugs me, is that it also undermines the writing in Mando S2. Why even have Luke show up at all? Had they no other point to including that other than fan service?
 

What a pointless mess the Star Wars EU on Disney+ has turned out to be.

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12 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

How many times did Luke go to the dark side (at least for a bit) in the EU? I seem to remember at least twice although I gather there were more. 

Dark empire was one.

 

I dont remember any other, i think.

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57 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Right now, my only outlet for discussing how cool all this stuff is is a group text with my brother and cousin that similarly just love the Mandoverse :lol:

 

It's all very cool. And I'd love to hear your discussion on its coolness. 

 

It's just also somewhat incoherent even within itself (nevermind the wider Mandoverse). 

 

Since there isn't going to be a change in the creative direction of the Star Wars Disney+ shows (and I don't think there should be) I'm not sure we'll ever get a postmortem on "What the heck happened?" I mean if Filoni or someone shows up and says "Yeah, we felt that all the previous ideas about Fett didn't really hold water and we wanted to redefine the character" that could at least be interesting. 

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In this thread at this point any discussion will get framed as a debate which I'm just not interested in.  I'm not against productive debate when it comes to important things, but I have no interest in applying that level of thought to escapist entertainment.  I dunno, when I don't like a show or movie I tend to just move on and not talk or think about it a lot.

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1 hour ago, Positivatee said:

There needs to be a Season 2 of TBOBF where Boba finds that Mace Windu has survived all these years. 

 

Then sends Fennec Shand to exact his revenge. 

And Vader. Yes we know he was killed and his body was burned on a pyre in front of our eyes but he took over R2 and now spends his time talking to strange computer systems. Yeah. Let’s do that. It’s genius. 

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9 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Anyway, I'll never get satisfaction untill they decide to make a TV spnioff around Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes.

Given the apparent requirement these days for every minor character to have their own spinoff series this will probably happen. I mean they probably had more screen time than Boba Fett.*
 

*caution, entirely baseless assertion…

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1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

And Vader. Yes we know he was killed and his body was burned on a pyre in front of our eyes but he took over R2 and now spends his time talking to strange computer systems. Yeah. Let’s do that. It’s genius. 

 

The Force Ghost in the Shell 

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On 06/02/2022 at 8:40 PM, enderdrag64 said:

Yes people were upset about that when Mando S2 came out, my understanding is that they tried to make them long like they're supposed to be and it didn't work practically do to the lightsaber stunts they wanted to do.

 

In fact here's it directly from the mouth of the costume designer:

 

 

And this quote from Filoni is in the new Art of Mandalorian Season 2 book

 

image.png

image.png

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On 15/2/2022 at 2:20 AM, Tallguy said:

 

How many times did Luke go to the dark side (at least for a bit) in the EU? I seem to remember at least twice although I gather there were more. 

Once, in Dark Empire and it was explicit that he only did this so he could get close to the resurrected Emperor and defeat him once and for all 

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That would be an interesting perspective the movies never really touched:  could somebody dabble with the Dark Side of and retain their own individual motivations, but then have a "safety switch" to deliberately come back to the light? 

 

Siduous has no master so his agenda is supreme.

 

We never see enough of Maul to get in his headspace. He is a happy pawn of his master. (I know he comes back in the TV series but I have not watched them yet.)

 

Dooku willingly leaves the Jedi Order over disgust for the way they covered up the death of his friend Qui-Gon Jinn. He serves Siduous believing the CIS' actions will improve the galaxy, but discovers at death's door that he was a pawn. 

 

When Anakin finally falls into Darkness, he drops to the ground and throws himself at Palpatine. He is all too eager to do his master's bidding. Is this because he wants to start the training to learn how to save Padme, or is the pull to the Dark Side so overwhelmingly strong that he cannot fight it? 

 

I believe it's the latter. Even if he wanted to fight it, he cannot.

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54 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

That would be an interesting perspective the movies never really touched:  could somebody dabble with the Dark Side of and retain their own individual motivations, but then have a "safety switch" to deliberately come back to the light? 

 

Siduous has no master so his agenda is supreme.

 

We never see enough of Maul to get in his headspace. He is a happy pawn of his master. (I know he comes back in the TV series but I have not watched them yet.)

 

Dooku willingly leaves the Jedi Order over disgust for the way they covered up the death of his friend Qui-Gon Jinn. He serves Siduous believing the CIS' actions will improve the galaxy, but discovers at death's door that he was a pawn. 

 

When Anakin finally falls into Darkness, he drops to the ground and throws himself at Palpatine. He is all too eager to do his master's bidding. Is this because he wants to start the training to learn how to save Padme, or is the pull to the Dark Side so overwhelmingly strong that he cannot fight it? 

 

I believe it's the latter. Even if he wanted to fight it, he cannot.

This is actually an idea that's sort of touched on by KOTOR 2. It probably would have been expanded on by the third game, had it not been cancelled and replaced by SWTOR.

To quote an exchange from KOTOR 2 between the Exile and Kreia: (spoilers)

Spoiler

Exile - "What caused Revan to fall, to turn on the Republic?"

Kreia - "Fall? Ah, already you presume much. You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him."

Exile - "Then what made him fall to the dark side, become a Sith Lord?"

Kreia - "Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil."

 

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On the other hand Jacen solo thought so highly of himself that he thought he could use the dark side for the common good... but he could not be redeemed in the end.

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Yeah I think it's a common mental trap Star Wars characters fall into as a kind of 'ends justifies the means' mentality

Luke to my knowledge is the only one confirmed to not have lost himself in the process

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‘The Book Of Boba Fett’ Finale Viewership 36% Higher Than ‘The Mandalorian’ Season 2 Closer

 

Pretty sure that's just because more people have Disney+ in 2022 than had it in 2020, and not a reflection of the quality of the episodes...

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40 minutes ago, Jay said:

‘The Book Of Boba Fett’ Finale Viewership 36% Higher Than ‘The Mandalorian’ Season 2 Closer

 

Pretty sure that's just because more people have Disney+ in 2022 than had it in 2020, and not a reflection of the quality of the episodes...

 

More and more people not just joining D+ but also getting into the Mandoverse.  I take it as a reflection of the growing popularity of this particular corner of the Star Wars brand.

 

Like, my sister who very casually enjoyed the Star Wars movies growing up got Disney+ last year for her kids and tried Mandalorian and was texting me about how much she liked it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This series suddenly got somewhat better with the Mandalorian episode (episode 5). And with the Ring Station, the backgrounds were better too. So the question is, is Boba Fett the Achilles' heel of the TV series?

 

93673b8e-decf-4ed0-9a53-819678ebcb21-dar

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