SPOILER TALK: NO TIME TO DIE (2021, Cary Fukunaga)

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I watched all the Craig films over the past week to refresh/catch-up for this film.

 

I seriously don’t understand all the criticism leveled at these movies. Spectre was good and so was this.

 

The stairwell oner that starts with the mimic of the gun barrel sequence was awesome. The “9-minutes to impact” actually being 9 real life minutes was also a nice touch. 

 

I’m sure gkgyver is having an aneurism somewhere. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

4 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Spectre was good and so was this.

 

Oh, I think they're both fine. They're too well-produced and well-performed to not be. And I like that No Time to Die is really a drama about Bond and his relationship with Madelene; and I like a lot of the action.

 

But they pale in comparison to Casino Royal and Skyfall. The plotting is just too complicated: its two or even three separate movies shoved into one.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

An excellent article by comedian/actor/presenter David Mitchell that echoes how I feel about NTTD going where Bond hasn't before - 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/10/ah-mr-bond-i-was-expecting-you-to-entertain-me

[Chen G. 3,943]

Quote

Well, that’s cheating. It’s not the form of entertainment that was advertised. James Bond films aren’t dramas, they’re pantos. [... making a drama is] a technique that displaces boredom with anguish, not fun, and that’s not what Bond films are supposed to do.

 

This writer had misplaced anguish for catharsis; which is a far better thing for any and every movie to strive for over the trivial, frivolous, much-cutesified "relaxing escapism" that this ignorant author stupidly and simple-mindedly yearns for.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

From the article @Sweeping Strings posted

Quote

[Bond is] ridiculous but lovable. It makes us feel happy.

 

This is also my view on Bond and why I dislike the Craig era. 

 

22 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

the trivial, frivolous, much-cutesified "relaxing escapism" that this ignorant author stupidly and simple-mindedly yearns for.

 

In my experience the kind of art/culture a person likes has very little to do with their intelligence.  In fact, often I find that thinking escapism is stupid is its own kind of simple-mindedness.

[Chen G. 3,943]

45 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

often I find that thinking escapism is stupid is its own kind of simple-mindedness.

 

I don't think its stupid. I think it has its place. But, as I often say, I think the Greeks had it right: one comedy for every three tragedies.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On a scale of 10 Die gets a 6. 

 

The score is atrocious. i kept waiting for Batman of the Joker to step on screen.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Oh, I think they're both fine. They're too well-produced and well-performed to not be. And I like that No Time to Die is really a drama about Bond and his relationship with Madelene; and I like a lot of the action.

 

But they pale in comparison to Casino Royal and Skyfall. The plotting is just too complicated: its two or even three separate movies shoved into one.

Sure I can see that. The Safin character is sort of hamfisted into the latter half. But with this being Craig’s last film, I understand trying to achieve that finality of his arc.

 

If they developed this Bond quicker instead of taking 3 films to get him to be “Bond,” I think everything would have worked much better. That being said though, the films never felt long to me despite their length. The action sequences are all outstanding.

[Chen G. 3,943]

34 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

I understand trying to achieve that finality of his arc.

 

I do understand, and I appreciate that aspect of the movie greatly.

 

I will say, I would have liked a less despairing death for Bond. There's a difference between something being tragic and it being despairing. Usually, you want to feel that in dying, the character had achieved something that would not otherwise be accomplished. That's not the case here: the destruction of the base and the nanobots with it was a forgone conclusion with or without Bond's death.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It was way too long.  I disagree Chen, Bond got a noble death standing in the face of fire. To bad the movie is so mediocre.

[Chen G. 3,943]

35 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

Bond got a noble death standing in the face of fire.

 

Its a noble death, to be sure.

 

But its still too despairing for my tastes. The sequence should have been constructed in such a way that without Bond's dying, the bombing of the base could not take place. As it is, it can.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The film is pretty dark for its rating. The brutal snapping of Safin’s arm and his quick execution, not to mention Logan Ash’s demise.

 

Loved the cinematography in that forest chase. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

That's all great.

 

But there's a difference between a film being dark, even being tragic, and it being despairing. Its obviously a sliding scale, but to me the feeling at the end of No Time To Die leans a bit too much into outright despair.

 

That and the over-complicated plotting really weigh on what's otherwise a very good, very earnest action movie.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Does a pigeon do a double take?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

Does the man look at his bottle of wine?

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

16 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

This writer had misplaced anguish for catharsis; which is a far better thing for any and every movie to strive for over the trivial, frivolous, much-cutesified "relaxing escapism" that this ignorant author stupidly and simple-mindedly yearns for.

Yes, imagine a comedian not finding a Bond film light enough. How DARE he? 

FFS.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

I went again last night ... the irksome things ('daddy Bond' and his, Leiter's and Blofeld's deaths, the overlength (no Bond film should ever make us wait that long for the first sight of the 'main man', for example) are still so to me. The Heracles plotting seemed a bit less convoluted this time around. 

I think I quite like it overall ... but the aforementioned things to me should never be in Bond, IMHO.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

Is there going to be another Bond film, or is this it?

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

Didn't you watch the end credits scene?

Spoiler

James Bond will return

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

6 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

Didn't you watch the end credits scene?

  Reveal hidden contents

James Bond will return

 

Thanks for that.

I'm not likely to see the film until next January.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

15 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Thanks for that.

I'm not likely to see the film until next January.

Then why are you in here spoiling it for yourself?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

Then why are you in here spoiling it for yourself?

Good question!

It's Bond: I don't care.

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

After how it ended, first time around I sat until the end of the credits to see the 'James Bond Will Return' caption. I needed the reassurance.  

[Disco Stu 15,495]

22 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Good question!

It's Bond: I don't care.

 

Right?  Bond isn't some nerd property where you care about plot twists or whatever.  It's about the fun dumb shit.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Finally saw this thing (actually rented an entire movie theatre to ourselves so my friends and I could hang out safely - it was surprisingly cheap! Only $150!)

 

I HATED the decision to kill off all the main characters. It just stank of a writing team who couldn't come up with a better or more imaginative story so they decided to jump the shark instead. Lazy and frustrating. That said, the film had some terrific sequences. In particular, the game of "hide and seek" in the misty wood was very effective. The length of the film didn't bother me - the film was so exciting to watch that I didn't notice the time going by. The downside was that the film was just so damn gloomy and melodramatic all the way through. Bond has been brooding and angsty in the past, but not for the entire duration of the film. By the time he finally died at the end it just felt like the natural conclusion to the miserable sod he'd been throughout the film. 

 

I really don;t know how to rate this film. As a run of the mill action thriller it's decent enough, and I'd rate it maybe 8/10. As a Bond film it fails completely. It just isn't a Bond film. The homages to the earlier films (and there were shit loads!) just reminded me how much more fun those films were. 

 

As for the future of the franchise - it definitely said JAMES BOND will return at the end (NOT 007 will return) - so James will be back. As the producers of this film have essentially made it impossible to continue Bond's story from this point, my guess is that the next movie will completely ignore the Daniel Craig films and just be a back-to-basics fun romp. The Craig quintet will exist in their own weird parallel universe, outside of the regular series. I really hope so.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:46 AM, Koray Savas said:

I watched all the Craig films over the past week to refresh/catch-up for this film.

 

I seriously don’t understand all the criticism leveled at these movies. Spectre was good and so was this.

 

The stairwell oner that starts with the mimic of the gun barrel sequence was awesome. The “9-minutes to impact” actually being 9 real life minutes was also a nice touch. 

 

I’m sure gkgyver is having an aneurism somewhere. 

I actually preferred Spectre to this. I never understood the hate for Spectre. It has major problems, and I don't like the personal childhood link between Bond and Blofeld (does everyone need a damn backstory and personal connection in films these days?) but as a film it was really entertaining. The scene where Bond discovers Mr White's secret room by observing the rat was really thrilling - it felt like a 60s Bond moment.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

SPECTRE is a top-5 favourite Bond film, for me.

No, I am not joking!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Craig's just a miserable git who's boring to watch.  Worst Bond by a country mile.  I hope the door hits him on the way out.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Drama is by definition miserable.

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

On 8/11/21 at 11:17 AM, Chen G. said:

Drama is by definition miserable.

 

Wow. I think this post says more about you than it does about the actual definitions of anything.

[Chen G. 3,943]

It was somewhat hyperbolic statement, but it gets the message across.

 

Is the Illiad a happy story? What about Lear? Walküre? Faust?

 

No, they're all filled with misery and pain, because that's literally dramatic. Drama is literally about watching characters face adversity.

[KK 3,307]

Movie was kind of silly and all over the place, but entertaining.

 

Daniel Craig's death was...okay. I was more moved when we lost M in Skyfall.

[Arpy 4,145]

Was finally able to see the film this weekend and for the most part I thought it was great.

 

I was hoping for a Dark Knight Rises ending, in that we'd cut to some distant Cuban bar somewhere and we'd hear the familiar shaken not stirred line coming from Craig. We wouldn't have to see him, just hear his voice...

 

The score worked fine, but it was definitely Zimmer on autopilot where he could just pull out some stuff he's used elsewhere wherever it seemed appropriate. Final Ascent starts off well, but kind of becomes every other Time variation out there. The score was also mixed strangely as if it was fighting for attention with the sfx which resulted in a really shite sounding muffling of the two soundtracks. What's missing from the score are the lush themes Newman gave us in the last two films, especially for Madeleine and seeing how she's a central character. There's also little in the way of transitional scene-changing music that leaves more quiet moments than not.

[JibberJabberwocky 9]

The score was mixed strangely for me as well. I watched at home via streaming. The Cuba Chase is where I noticed it the most.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yeah that’s a stellar cue on album, and you can barely hear it in the film. 

[Edmilson 7,384]

Why is this movie being distributed worldwide by Universal?

 

My OCD can't cope with all Craig Bond movies being released by Sony/Columbia Pictures except for the very last one.

[crumbs 14,300]

On 16/11/2021 at 11:06 AM, Doctor Faust said:

The score was mixed strangely for me as well. I watched at home via streaming. The Cuba Chase is where I noticed it the most.

 

Seconded. I have a lot of thoughts about the film but just wanted to say how weird the sound mix was in my home theater. Not only is the dialogue overly bassy but Zimmer's score is treated horribly in the mix, practically buried under SFX, also muddy and indistinct. The SFX definitely takes precedence in the mix.

 

So it's another TFA situation, surprisingly. These sound mixers need to be reigned in; the bias towards SFX is obnoxious at this point. I really hope JW's score for Indy 5 isn't treated this badly!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I saw it last night, and thought it was good fun!

 

The action scenes were all very well staged; I particularly loved the Cuba sequence (and Ana de Armis 😍) and the brutal staircase one-shot sequence at the end was thrilling. The score was surprisingly good, probably my favourite since Casino Royale (I never quite got into QoS, and I’m not at all a fan of Newman’s scores). Loved all the Barry quotes, and more than a few cues could’ve been by Arnold.

 

I don’t understand all the grumbling about the ending. It was perfectly fine having this Bond die; his story started in Casino and ended here. And what a twist of the knife it was having him infected with the nanobots so he couldn’t return to Madeline and Mathilde. Of course Bond can’t settle down, it could never work even if he’d not been infected and survived - he’s not a “good” man and he can’t have a happy ending. 

The death of Blofeld, Bond having a child, and the prospect of a simpler life were all nods to Fleming’s final novel “You Only Live Twice”. If you’re going to tell the story of Bond’s end then you may as well get it from the creator.

 

I’m very curious to see where they take the franchise next. I expect it’ll be much more episodic like the old days. Craig’s era was one long story, and while very flawed I appreciated the fact it tried something different. I’ll miss Craig a lot.

[JNHFan2000 2,943]

3 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I don’t understand all the grumbling about the ending. It was perfectly fine having this Bond die, his story started in Casino and ended here. And what a twist of the knife having him infected with the nanobots so he couldn’t return to Madeline and Mathilde. Of course Bond can’t settle down, it could never work even if he’d not been infected and survived - he’s not a “good” man and he can’t have a happy ending. 

The death of Blofeld, Bond having a child and the prospect of a simpler life were all nods to Flemings final novel “You Only Live Twice”. If you’re going to tell the story of Bond’s end then you may as well get it from the creator.

If you think about it, the ending is similar too On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Although in that film his wife dies. Both films make it clear that Bond can't retire and live a 'normal' life. He always has to look over his shoulder. And I think that's a really interesting concept. 

 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

2 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

If you think about it, the ending is similar too On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Although in that film his wife dies. Both films make it clear that Bond can't retire and live a 'normal' life. He always has to look over his shoulder. And I think that's a really interesting concept. 

 

Oh absolutely, and I think the film is very aware of that fact. The countless callbacks to OHMSS in this film (and SPECTRE for that matter) point to it, as does the explicit dialogue in early scenes with Bond and Madeline when they talk of him always looking over his shoulder. It’s a smart choice in terms of dramatic conflict for this version of Bond. He was introduced as a romantic, and it’s only fitting that his final outing has him coming to terms with the fact he will never have the life he has clearly always craved.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

5 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Although in that film his wife dies.

His wife what?????!!!!!!!!!!

S-P-O-I-L-E-R-S!!!!!!

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Question: when Bond goes to visit Blofeld , Madeline shuns Bonds offer of a handshake(we later learn why. She didn't want to infect him).

So, how did Bond infect Blofeld?

Was it.because he Was infected at the birthday party?

 

 

Btw the plot  device of a NEW terrorist group killing off the leaders of SPECTRE was originally intended for TSWLM!

On 20/11/2021 at 6:38 AM, crypto said:

 

Seconded. I have a lot of thoughts about the film but just wanted to say how weird the sound mix was in my home theater. Not only is the dialogue overly bassy .

 

On 20/11/2021 at 6:38 AM, crypto said:

 

 

Yes. And, I don't have a subwoofer.

I usually turn off woofers for dialog heavy shows. They cause severe overmodulation of bass voices.😠

 

 

Btw how did they track Bond to Norway?

It seemed like the producers just wanted to.have ANOTHER car chase; this one a boldface commercial for Rover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with Doctor Q about how satisfying it was that they incorporated several elements from YOLT novel

 

[GerateWohl 4,326]

41 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Question: when Bond goes to visit Blofeld , Madeline shuns Bonds offer of a handshake(we later learn why. She didn't want to infect him).

So, how did Bond infect Blofeld?

Was it.because he Was infected at the birthday party?

At the door to the room with Blofeld Bond briefly touches Madeline at her hand or arm. That was obviously enough to infect him.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Bond survived at least TWO explosions that happened only inches away.

Wtf?

On 26/11/2021 at 5:38 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

His wife what?????!!!!!!!!!!

S-P-O-I-L-E-R-S!!!!!!

We knew that from the NOVEL- published in 1964!

 

 

Spoiler ALERT for FART:

Sherlock Holmes didn't really die at the Reichenbach Falls!

😅😝😜😛😙

[Naïve Old Fart 9,493]

I kinda knew that.

I wonder how Bond will survive NO TIME TO DIE?

Given that Bond, like Holmes, is a high-functioning sociopath, it shouldn't be too difficult.