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HGWs Kingdom of Heaven (A Reevaluation and Appreciation)


WampaRat

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1 hour ago, Bellosh said:

i really enjoy this score, but I also really enjoy the film, both the regular and director's cut.  i think it's an under-appreciated epic (obviously the film has it's issues with history, but i really know nothing of the period). but on the level of just being an 'epic' film with a good story, i think it succeeds.

 

as for the score, i came across the recording session a while back and it was an intimidating listen experience to say the least, but it was a glorious one as well, when i finally listened to it all the way through.  i go back to it every so often.

 

i will check out that edit you have though, i really appreciate that.

Yes same! I enjoyed the ost. But it never really took me on a journey. And the recording sessions are appropriately epic but not all essential listening Id say. So for this personal edit I really tried to structure things the way a terrific Horner album would play out. When I finish listening to Braveheart I feel like I’ve just experienced an entire journey - beauty- heartbreak-betrayals- pulse pounding battles- a cathartic and beautiful resolution. I wanted to feel like that after finishing KoH. And I knew it had that potential. It just needed a little sanding and polish here and there :)

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19 hours ago, WampaRat said:

After listening to The Last Duel frequently, I was in the mood to revisit HGWs Kingdom of Heaven again. I know it tends to be fairly well regarded. Yet some didn’t connect with it. But after listening to the OST and then listening to the Recording sessions, it struck me how the original album really undercut the beautiful architecture of of HGWs score. Action set pieces were split up and scattered all over the album, negatively impacting the narrative flow. The RS have terrific highlights but are probably a bit too long to sit through. I decided to make a personal edit that combines the OST with selections from the RS in mostly chronological order into a suitably epic (but not too long) 75 minutes. It flows wonderfully and the development of his score really comes alive- leading the listener on an emotional and epic journey through the Medieval Europe and the Holy land. If you don’t mind the work (I actually enjoy making personal edits) It’s very rewarding and worth the effort.

 

  1. Burning the Past (OST)
  2. Crusaders (OST)
  3. I am your Father (RS)
  4. After Godfrey (RS)
  5. Swordplay (RS)
  6. A New World (OST)
  7. To Messina (RS)/To Jerusalem(OST)
    (*edited these two together. It’s a fantastic montage of music to encapsulate Bailin’s journey to Holy Land)
  8. Golgotha (OST “The King” 0:00-1:22)
  9. My Lord (RS)
  10. The King (OST “The King” 1:22-2:23)
  11. The Pilgrim Road (OST 0:00-2:20)
  12. Ibelin (OST)
  13. Sybila (OST)
  14. Caravan Road (OST “Wall Breached 1:11-END)
  15. Battle of Karak(OST)
  16. Terms (OST “The King” 2:23-END)
  17. Coronation (OST)
  18. Leprosy (OST “An Understanding” 0:00-1:58)
  19. Desert Thirst/To War (OST “Terms” 1:10-END)
  20. They Are Here (RS)
  21. Rise a Knight (OST)/Almerik’s Peerage (RS) (edited these together)
  22. Siege (Made this a combination of a couple different tracks - “A Better Man” (OST 0:00-1:23) “2nd Day of War” (RS) and “Wall Breached”(OST 0:00-1:18)
  23. Door Into Jerusalem (OST “An Understanding” 1:59-END)
  24. Wall Breached (RS)
  25. Everything (OST “Saladin” 2:15-END)
  26. Path to Heaven (OST)
  27. Light of Life (OST)* - I also added “Crusaders”(OST) to this just to bring things full circle. A nice little reprise. And then ended things with the short “Smell of Wood” (RS) cue that hauntingly restates the Ibelin theme:)

 

Feel free to use my custom cover (seen here). I also found this YouTube channel extremely helpful in understanding all the motifs and themes HGW created for the score (which ultimately got butchered by the Director of course) Check it out as well. Sorry for essay. Cheers!

 

 

 

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Thank you for posting that theme analysis! I was already a huge fan of the score but that has done wonders for my understanding of it.

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Just now, LSH said:

 

Thank you for posting that theme analysis! I was already a huge fan of the score but that has done wonders for my understanding of it.

Yeah! Stumbled upon that. The “score restore” videos he did for KoH are also very illuminating. 

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Just now, WampaRat said:

Yeah! Stumbled upon that. The “score restore” videos he did for KoH are also very illuminating. 

 

Very good. I will also definitely try out that playlist you listed. I've always struggled between both presentations, so thanks again. 

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Definitely feels to me a score that would've benefitted from a full CD release, over the hour or so that we got. I've never really listened to the album in full, but you can't help but feel that for a score as long as this, another 15 minutes or so of varied material could've easily gone in.

 

Never listened to the entire album myself, but the Ibelin theme initially drew me to the score.

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15 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Definitely feels to me a score that would've benefitted from a full CD release, over the hour or so that we got. I've never really listened to the album in full, but you can't help but feel that for a score as long as this, another 15 minutes or so of varied material could've easily gone in.

 

Never listened to the entire album myself, but the Ibelin theme initially drew me to the score.

There is a masterclass video on YouTube where HGW talks in detail about the Ibelin cue and another cue which ended up not being used in KOH. Very interesting

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2 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

There is a masterclass video on YouTube where HGW talks in detail about the Ibelin cue and another cue which ended up not being used in KOH. Very interesting

 

I'd love to see that.

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Absolutely adore the extended film and the score. The recording sessions are blessing. So much quality of unreleased music there and source music. I wish LLL could get this out. A 4CD set would be marvelous. 

 

Can you post the link to the Masterclass video pls? 

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3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

The directors cut is an eye opener. The film gets much better.

 

And the Roadshow cut is even better.

 

The pace of the film really needs that intermission.

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I disliked HGW in the 90s and into the early 2000s. But it was KINGDOM OF HEAVEN -- his masterpiece to this day -- that turned me around on him and made me appreciate not only a lot of his subsequent work, but also re-appreciate some of his earlier efforts that I once disliked (like SMILLA'S SENSE OF SNOW).

 

The director's cut of the film is likewise a masterpiece.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

And the Roadshow cut is even better.

 

The pace of the film really needs that intermission.

What is the roadshow cut? The directors cut has an intermission too…

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46 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

The directors cut has an intermission too

 

So that's basically it.

 

There is a version of the Director's Cut on Bluray that doesn't have the intermission, which I think detracts from the movie: the pacing really needs it.

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The roadshow  version includes an “overture, intermission, and exit music” but no more footage than the directors cut.

 

https://thisorthatedition.com/kingdom-of-heaven-2005/

 

Seems appropriate for such an epic. I grew up on films like Ben Hur, Spartacus, and Lawrence of Arabia. My folks would show them to us on Sundays. Any time an overture popped up you knew it was going to be a long film;)

But it was a terrific opportunity to composers. And a way to help the audience know “THIS is an EVENT”.

 

It would be cool, once Dune Pt 2 gets released, to cut the two films together with a similar overture/intermission. But THATS for another thread!

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And certain films quite simply need that breather of the intermission for their pacing to really work: Kingdom of Heaven is one such film, so I find that addition really necessary to the film.

 

3 hours ago, WampaRat said:

It would be cool, once Dune Pt 2 gets released, to cut the two films together with a similar overture/intermission.

 

A bit like how some us are playing around with ideas for overture/intermission/entr'acte/walkout music for the Middle Earth movies... :whistle:

 

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The music is for breaks in the films: all the extended Lord of the Rings editions have intermissions that are just as well placed as Kingdom of Heaven's. The Hobbit has intermissions (also intelligently placed) in its 3D editions, and I happen to think An Unexpected Journey really needs that breather, although I don't have music for them.

 

I also like the idea of a single overture for the whole of the six films, but its proven difficult to construct and then that pesky Shore decided to get involved with the prequel TV series so I'll eventually have to find ways to put its themes into it, as well...

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Having just rewatched the movie, I have to say that I only noticed the pseudo-classical piece which Ridley Scott has used in a very effective way. This scene of music and images (the sadness and pain Sibylla feels for the passing of King Baldwin) says more than dialogue ever could. 

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30 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I also like the idea of a single overture for the whole of the six films, but its proven difficult to construct

 

That's what the symphony could've been (for LotR) - a reimagining that pulls all the main ideas into a much shorter piece of music. Sadly all Shore seemed to do was make essentially a re-recorded abridged versions of the OSTs, and I never listened to the whole thing as you might as well just put the OSTs on.

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I also want it to be a managable overture length - something you could concievably listen to before popping An Unexpected Journey in. So the Symphony had already ruled itself out.

 

Mind you, its already longer than Leneore Number 3/The Dresden Tannhauser, which are the two longest overtures I know of.

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4 hours ago, AC1 said:

Having just rewatched the movie, I have to say that I only noticed the pseudo-classical piece which Ridley Scott has used in a very effective way. This scene of music and images (the sadness and pain Sibylla feels for the passing of King Baldwin) says more than dialogue ever could. 

Yeah. that Vid Cor Meum piece by Patrick Cassidy is used pretty well. I think the coronation cue HGWs wrote did a nice job aping that piece without getting too temp-tracky. 

 

The most distracting temp piece is the Valhalla cue from Goldsmith’s 13th Warrior. “Rise A Knight” was intended for that scene is just as rousing (and thematically consistent) *sigh* I’ll never understand decisions like that.

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3 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

The most distracting temp piece is the Valhalla cue from Goldsmith’s 13th Warrior.

 

Yes, very much! Something about the mood of the piece just doesn't fit the movie.

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