Who do you want to score Obi-Wan Kenobi? (2022, Disney+)

[Arpy 4,145]

Also, I don't think Giacchino butchered anything in Rogue One, and I find it strange the same criticism on how he used the force theme reverberated ad nauseum across this forum doesn't lend credence to it. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Good point, mate.

 

For those who haven't voted yet:

 

 

[Holko 9,499]

25 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I don't find MG's use of JW's themes to be bad either, and I believe the general criticism is about how it's used with what's going on on-screen.

 

Nah, it's about how badly he treats them musically.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

8 minutes ago, Holko said:

Nah, it's about how badly he treats them musically.

 

OK, please show us the worst cases.

[Holko 9,499]

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

That section has never stood out to me as bad. The emergence of the binary sunset theme is surprising, and effective.

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

But you can't deny that many of his scores do include synth elements, and some of us don't always find that successful.

 

Basically every Williams score includes synth elements too.

 

Yeah, Powell uses synth as an orchestral texture throughout his scores, with varying degrees of prominence. But that's a completely separate argument to the comment I responded to (that Powell's scores are "synth rythms driven").

 

His two most recent examples, Buck Takes the Lead and Armada Battle, leapfrog from one leitmotif to another, propulsed almost entirely by virtuosic orchestral writing.

 

17 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

OK, please show us the worst cases.

 

Literally off the top of my head:

 

 

 

Yeah, I know the last one isn't a Williams theme, but it's so excruciatingly bad in an 'attempting to pastiche a Williams theme yet sounding nothing like Williams' way that it backs up my point.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

5 minutes ago, crypto said:

Basically every Williams score includes synth elements too.

 

Yes, but he's usually better at integrating it, which is the big difference. He doesn't overuse it.

 

5 minutes ago, crypto said:

Yeah, Powell uses synth as an orchestral texture throughout his scores, with varying degrees of prominence. But that's a completely separate argument to the comment I responded to (that Powell's scores are "synth rythms driven").

 

My comment is certainly related.

 

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Sure, but like I said, that's different to saying something is propulsed by synth rhythms.

 

To anyone who thinks that of Powell's Solo, I can heartily recommend the Deluxe Edition. Powell reduced the presence of synth elements in the mix and increased the focus on orchestral elements. The score is all the richer for it (especially for the London musicians who recorded the hell out of that score!)

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

12 minutes ago, crypto said:

 

Basically every Williams score includes synth elements too.

 

Yeah, Powell uses synth as an orchestral texture throughout his scores, with varying degrees of prominence. But that's a completely separate argument to the comment I responded to (that Powell's scores are "synth rythms driven").

 

His two most recent examples, Buck Takes the Lead and Armada Battle, leapfrog from one leitmotif to another, propulsed almost entirely by virtuosic orchestral writing.

 

 

Literally off the top of my head:

 

 

 

Yeah, I know the last one isn't a Williams theme, but it's so excruciatingly bad in an 'attempting to pastiche a Williams theme yet sounding nothing like Williams' way that it backs up my point.

 

The JW theme in the first video I agree sounds weird when it's recast in an overly positive rendition.

 

The second video is the same take on the binary sunset theme as Holko posted, which I like.

 

The intro, which you posted in the last video, takes inspiration from JW's main title in the first bar and then runs with it. I find it refreshing. Similar, but different.

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The whole score is filled with cringeworthy Williams needledrops; those were just the easiest ones to find on YouTube.

 

Look, good luck to you (and whoever else) if you loved what Giacchino did with Williams' themes, or if you think Solo is synth-driven trash. I'm not going to waste my time changing anyone's opinion. Suffice to say it didn't work for me, and I think Giacchino's musical voice is much stronger when he isn't emulating other composers.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

I'm not saying I love MG's take on JW's themes, it's more like relief that most of it doesn't stand out as bad, and some of it I find to be refreshing new takes. I'm basing this on the OST presentation.

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6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm basing this on the OST presentation.

 

From memory the OST eschewed a lot of the Williams references (likewise the FYC, which literally edited most of them out).

[Richard Penna 3,671]

40 minutes ago, crypto said:

Yeah, I know the last one isn't a Williams theme, but it's so excruciatingly bad in an 'attempting to pastiche a Williams theme yet sounding nothing like Williams' way that it backs up my point.

 

I rather like that last one (I've never seen the film or really listened to the score properly). Sure, it's essentially what you get when a library composer is asked for a soundalike of the SW main titles, but if you take away the 'I want to be SW' orchestration aspects of it, it's a pretty good theme, really.

 

I suspect that a lot of the derivative aspects of this score are simply Gia doing what he was told, particularly as LFL obviously wanted a 'safe' sound instead of whatever Desplat was offering.

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Ironically my issue with that example isn't the theme, but all the awkward orchestration surrounding it.

 

It sounds like a first pass written in about 15 minutes... probably because it was.

[Holko 9,499]

It sounds absolutely awful. Recording, mix, orchestration, theme setting, all of it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

2 minutes ago, crypto said:

Ironically my issue with that example isn't the theme, but all the awkward orchestration surrounding it.

 

It sounds like a first pass written in about 15 minutes... probably because it was.

 

I agree that orchestration isn't MG's forte.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

Should we not also remember that Gia had no time at all to write it? I'm not aiming to be overly Gia-apologetic as I'm far from a fan of his, but if you're tasked with writing a SW score in a few weeks (compared to Williams/Powell having months), and told to ape Williams' sound as much as possible, what the heck do you think you're going to get?

 

It's literally the worst of all worlds in the cauldron of JWFan 

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5 minutes ago, Holko said:

It sounds absolutely awful. Recording, mix, orchestration, theme setting, all of it.

 

Yes, it's a rare combination of awful recording, awful mix and wildly inappropriate tone.

 

I don't want to say it's a bad performance because I'm sure the musicians were trying their hearts out, but it's hard to believe this was likely almost the same orchestra who performed The Last Jedi a few months later.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

Yeah the recording does sound flat and hollow as shit. I'll give you that.

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3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I agree that orchestration isn't MG's forte.

 

And yet if you listen to something like Ratatouille or Coco, the orchestrations are delightful!

 

I think the guy just regularly sells himself short on time, as @Richard Penna alluded.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

I'm already humming that theme at the end of A Long Ride Ahead. Just needs to be free from the Star Wars context.

 

I'm not trying to defend Gia for everything here, merely that he took on an impossible task, and that perhaps his style and recording techniques didn't make him the best suited for this particular project.

 

Doesn't mean he deserves all of this crap.

[Holko 9,499]

And takes on the wrong kinds of projects that don't suit his voice.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

4 minutes ago, crypto said:

And yet if you listen to something like Ratatouille or Coco, the orchestrations are delightful!

 

Yes, but these are on a different scale. He's not a good fit for orchestrations required by large orchestral scores.

 

6 minutes ago, crypto said:

I don't want to say it's a bad performance because I'm sure the musicians were trying their hearts out, but it's hard to believe this was likely almost the same orchestra who performed The Last Jedi a few months later.

 

I bet they didn't have a great deal of rehearsal time either.

 

2 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm already humming that theme at the end of A Long Ride Ahead. Just needs to be free from the Star Wars context.

 

Free Rogue One!

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I dont like powell music as many dont like Giacchino's.

 

It's personal taste and preference? What can i do...

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4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I bet they didn't have a great deal of rehearsal time either.

 

Probably not. I doubt they got anything in advance of the sessions either, if cues were still being written during the sessions.

[Richard Penna 3,671]

  

3 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I dont like powell music as many dont like Giacchino's.

 

It's personal taste and preference? What can i do...

 

No problems with that at all. But there's no need to accuse a composer who prolifically writes thematic, orchestral music of 'synth rhythms' when it's really that you just don't like their style.

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3 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I dont like powell music as many dont like Giacchino's.

 

It's personal taste and preference? What can i do...

 

Of course, that's perfectly fine! We're all entitled to our opinions

 

I just couldn't reconcile your comment that Powell's action music is rhythm/synth driven, because that couldn't be further from the truth. He's actually one of the few Hollywood composers still writing action cues centered around melodies and leitmotifs, much the same as Williams. He's also toned back on the synth/percussion elements since Solo, smartly relying more on his orchestral writing.

 

EDIT: What @Richard Penna said lol

[GerateWohl 4,339]

My main criticism to Rogue One and the Solo score go to, that both composers seem to have braken loose as soon as they knew, they were writing a Star Wars score there is simply too much too loud music. In the one or the other scene less would have been more. And I didn't like that James Bond vibe in Giacchino's main theme and the synthetic drums in Powel's score. Apart from that I am very ok with both scores. It is for me the best we got for Star Wars apart from Williams' own scores. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

  

 

No problems with that at all. But there's no need to accuse a composer who prolifically writes thematic, orchestral music of 'synth rhythms' when it's really that you just don't like their style.

 

Well, he does write synth rhythms on occasions...

[crumbs 14,301]

McNeely's SOTE deserves more love too!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

7 minutes ago, crypto said:

He's also toned back on the synth/percussion elements since Solo

 

Too bad he didn't do that before Solo.

 

1 minute ago, crypto said:

McNeely's SOTE deserves more love too!

 

It sucks!

 

4 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

My main criticism to Rogue One and the Solo score go to, that both composers seem to have braken loose as soon as they knew, they were writing a Star Wars score there is simply too much too loud music. In the one or the other scene less would have been more. And I didn't like that James Bond vibe in Giacchino's main theme and the synthetic drums in Powel's score. Apart from that I am very ok with both scores. It is for me the best we got for Star Wars apart from Williams' own scores. 

 

James Bond vibe?

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7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Too bad he didn't do that before Solo.

 

He got a second chance with the new mix on the Solo Deluxe Edition. It's really not as heavy/overbearing as you're implying.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

I never implied such a thing.

[crumbs 14,301]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yes, but he's usually better at integrating it, which is the big difference. He doesn't overuse it.

 

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Well, he does write synth rhythms on occasions...

 

20 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Too bad he didn't do that before Solo.

 

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

But you can't deny that many of his scores do include synth elements, and some of us don't always find that successful.

 

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's the Zimmer germ. He sold his soul to the devis and this is the price he's paying.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

So you see I'm more nuanced than you implied.

 

14 minutes ago, crypto said:

 

He got a second chance with the new mix on the Solo Deluxe Edition. It's really not as heavy/overbearing as you're implying.

[GerateWohl 4,339]

23 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

James Bond vibe?

 

Somehow Giacchino entered there inbetween that halfnote transition that Bond composers use to add in their themes to give them the Bond vibe at 2:39.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

So you see I'm more nuanced than you implied.

 

15 minutes ago, crypto said:

He got a second chance with the new mix on the Solo Deluxe Edition. It's really not as heavy/overbearing as you're implying.

 

Keyword highlighted.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

5 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

 

Somehow Ghiacchino entered there inbetween that halfnote transition that Bond composers use to add in their themes to give them the Bond vibe at 2:39.

 

 

 

Give the guy a break, he probably doesn't know what a half note is.

 

4 minutes ago, crypto said:

 

 

Keyword highlighted.

 

I never implied such a thing. I've tried to be nuanced all the way, unlike others...

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Who has time for nuance on JWFan?

 

If we all just cut to the chase, we wouldn't have to argue these semantics

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Well, I prefer to take notice of both the good and the bad (and the ugly) when reviewing an album. Of course these percussion and synth elements aren't everywhere, but they often give me a cheap taste when they do pop up.

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Don't listen to Heartbeeps then, whatever you do.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

The damage has already happened. Even Powell couldn't have made it worse.

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What if Giacchino scores Heartbeeps 2?

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

He'd probably do a better job than the original.

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So, anyway, how about that Obi Wan Kenobi composer?

[GerateWohl 4,339]

What I like about the Solo O.S.T.: It illustrates perfectly how little actually a theme is worth compared to a good arrangement.

The disc starts with the sophisticated "The Adventures of Han" from Williams. Then starts "Meeting Han" with Powel's arrangement and the very same theme suddenly sonds super trivial just without any counterpoint with these synthetic drums on it.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

15 minutes ago, crypto said:

So, anyway, how about that Obi Wan Kenobi composer?

 

Giacchino and Powell will do it together, based on an original theme by William Ross.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I agree that orchestration isn't MG's forte.

 

Doesn't he not even do his own orchestration?

[Richard Penna 3,671]

58 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

What I like about the Solo O.S.T.: It illustrates perfectly how little actually a theme is worth compared to a good arrangement.

The disc starts with the sophisticated "The Adventures of Han" from Williams. Then starts "Meeting Han" with Powel's arrangement and the very same theme suddenly sonds super trivial just without any counterpoint with these synthetic drums on it.

 

 

Thing is, you're comparing a concert arrangement, with no limitations in instrumentation, conforming to scenes, or anything like that (essentially Wiliams writing literally whatever he wanted for 4 minutes), to Powell scoring a scene with specific requirements and instructions from the director.