Nice read about catalog releases, AFM rates, and the Predator/Die Hard album that almost was

[Jay 37,352]

Enjoy!

 

https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/the-abandoned-predator-die-hard-cd

 

I had no idea that Nick Redman was so influential in getting the AFM to begin to allow catalog expansions at all.  What a legend

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Quote

Arista lost interest not long after—that always happens when major labels think they can make a fortune on archival soundtracks, and quickly realize, they can’t—but Nick was able to bring the series over to Varèse Sarabande.

Solution for big labels (that usually are partner companies of film studios):

stop recording scores in USA!

 

that way you can get rich releasing unlimited copies of complete deluxe scores….

[Jay 37,352]

Music labels have no say or interest in where a film score is recorded.

The people making the film use the orchestra that makes sense for the budget of the film.  

The soundtrack album is an afterthought, part of the marketing budget is used for it, and only then does the music label come into things.  Any modern soundtrack album can be any length they want, it's all covered by the budget that exists when they're making the film.

 

Any AFM score recorded before July 2005 is entirely affordable now anyway.  The only issue is with modern scores.  And the solution is to work with the AFM to come up with an affordable "archival rate" for 10-year old post-2005 scores, similar to what Nick Redman did in the 90s.  the solution isn't to start recording scores with non-AFM orchestras.  Even if every film studio started doing that, that wouldn't get us closer to having expansions of scores recorded with the AFM from 2005-present.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

So, I would say the question is: do we have a champion for these releases at a studio currently like Redman was at Fox?  Someone that could manage the herculean feat of changing the AFM's stance on post-05 scores similar to the deal Redman negotiated 20+ years ago to make archival releases less cost-prohibitive?

[Jay 37,352]

Oh, absolutely.  Mike Matessino and all those guys have discussions with the AFM all the time and I'm sure have explained to them how the post-2005 rule is affecting their ability to generate money for them.  I am sure that one day the AFM will agree to new terms!

[Edmilson 7,436]

The Patriot included   

[Bespin 8,480]

Is this another thread that will turn into a wish list?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

What’s your Christmas wish @Bespin

[mstrox 6,651]

is it me

[crumbs 14,306]

Quote

Part of that involved brokering a deal with the AFM to finally take pennies on the dollar because there was no reasonable way to generate the revenue that their “re-use” or “new use” fees would require. The thinking was that at least this way, the musicians and/or their heirs would be paid something, instead of nothing (if the scores remained unreleased).

 

If only the current AFM management understood the same logic.

 

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

The Patriot included   

 

That score is unaffected by the new AFM fees. Theoretically nothing is stopping a new release, unless it's difficult to license for whatever reason.

[Edmilson 7,436]

33 minutes ago, crumbs said:

That score is unaffected by the new AFM fees. Theoretically nothing is stopping a new release, unless it's difficult to license for whatever reason.

Sometimes I fear what is stopping The Patriot Expanded to happen is the fact that the movie, well... isn't that well remembered. Actually, it's not remembered at all. It was completly overshadowed by Gladiator that year, both at the box office (TP made US$ 215 million while the Ridley Scott/Russel Crowe movie made US$ 456 million) and with the critics. The people who watched it back in 2000 probably think of it as "American Braveheart, but less good".

 

That and the fact that Mel Gibson is not that popular with people on the internet.

 

I still hope it'll happen, but I don't think it's a priority right now, considering the movie is technically a dud.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The Patriot is Roland Emmerich’s best film. 

[Jay 37,352]

crumbs hit the nail on the head.

 

The AFM fees don't affect this.

 

Hollywood Records has been licensing score albums to Intrada for years (and in 2020 they licensed Mission Impossible 2 to Mondo)

 

Sony Pictures has been working with all the specialty labels for years

 

So, it's up to Centropolis Entertainment.  They've let two different specialty labels do Godzilla, but maybe they aren't interested in revisiting The Patriot for whatever reason.  They'd be the ones to write to!

[crumbs 14,306]

Positively, Stargate is another Centropolis production and that was recently expanded. Hopefully it's just a case of, "let's focus on other things for now" from Williams' camp, rather than one of the studios being obstructionist.

 

One thing the article doesn't touch upon is whether there were subsequent changes by the AFM after they began allowing 80s scores at a slightly higher rate. Did this eventually roll over to 90s scores as well? It feels like we started getting a rush of 90s expansions about 5 years ago, well before the 24-year stipulation Lukas mentioned (TLW for example).

[Jay 37,352]

Stargate was licensed straight from MGM and ID4 was licensed straight from Fox.  After the sucess of ID4 they were able to own Godzilla themselves and just had Sony distribute it.  This is different from Stargate that is owned by MGM and and ID4 which is owned by Fox.

 

There's Centropolis logos on the LLL and BSX Godzilla albums and The Patriot OST album, but there is not on any of the Stargate or ID4 albums

 

Even the back cover of The Patriot OST has an "Executive producer for Centropolis Entertainment" line instead of the usual "Executive Producer for Sony Pictures" line

[crumbs 14,306]

Oh interesting! I figured all production studios involved in a film needed to sign off on expansions (or at least grant permission to proceed).

 

Guess it depends on the film and whatever was negotiated in regards to which studio specifically owns the music rights?

[Jay 37,352]

Yea

[Thor 7,495]

I vividly remember when this was a thing, and fans were salivating over the prospect. I thought it was especially cool that they were opening with the warped Goldenthal Fox logo from ALIEN 3, even though it had nothing to do with the scores (then again, PREDATOR and DIE HARD was a weird pairing anyway).

[mstrox 6,651]

If you’re worried that a score won’t get released because the movie is viewed as a creative or financial failure, allow me to vaguely gesture at the 900 Jerry Goldsmith releases of 2021

[Edmilson 7,436]

Fair enough. Goldsmith did a lot of box office bombs which have been expanded recently. 

 

In any case, I fear that there is not much interest in the score or movie. So Intrada would think it would not sell, but... it's a John Williams score. Even if it's not as beloved as his other works, the fact that it says "Music Composed and Conducted by John Williams" is enough to sell a lot of units... right?

[Richard Penna 3,686]

20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

In any case, I fear that there is not much interest in the score or movie.

 

I see no reason why this concern holds any water - I see comments asking or it as much as any other JW score. I find the OST a bit on the long side, but there's really good material in there, and it certainly warrants expansion.

 

The reasoning of 'but... it's a John Williams score' always makes me a tiny bit itchy because I strongly believe that scores should be considered case-by-case, and not on the strength that 'XX wrote it, so of course it will be amazing'. I know that's not a popular view where Williams is concerned, but so be it. I just find it painful to read fawning over something that everyone knows isn't a composer's most memorable work.

[Edmilson 7,436]

57 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

The reasoning of 'but... it's a John Williams score' always makes me a tiny bit itchy because I strongly believe that scores should be considered case-by-case, and not on the strength that 'XX wrote it, so of course it will be amazing'. I know that's not a popular view where Williams is concerned, but so be it. I just find it painful to read fawning over something that everyone knows isn't a composer's most memorable work.

I said that because I was initially worried the expanded edition of the score wouldn't sell, but, considering it got JW's name in it, I think it's enough to sell at least decently. 

 

In other words, I was worried with the commercial prospects of the box, whenever they decide to release it.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

In this case, I just don't think you have to worry about the commercial prospects of the score alone. I've never heard anything except enthusiasm for it.

 

JW's name is the ultimate deal-sealer of course (although I wish it weren't)

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

18 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Sometimes I fear what is stopping The Patriot Expanded to happen is the fact that the movie, well... isn't that well remembered.

 

Nonsense! I have a vivid memory of Patriot Games!

[Edmilson 7,436]

Patriot Games is indeed a better movie than The Patriot. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

So Intrada would think it would not sell, but... it's a John Williams score.

 

I believe Intrada thinks every John Williams score will sell enough to make a release profitable.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I find the Harrison Ford Jack Ryan movies immensely boring.  Give me a ridiculous colonial superhero drama over that any day.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

They should have kept Baldwin.