Sequencing Bond

[Spikey 0]

That's a wrong way of thinking. Just because the technology got more sophisticated doesn't mean the music automatically got better.

Neil

That's not what I meant, exactly. There's a lot of simple, not brilliant scores that were expanded (in my book) and a lot more sophisticated scores I feel are better which weren't. I'm not saying 'well A therefore B', but in this case, I think it's the truth.

I work with video game music, and believe me, I don't have the thinking that 'simpler = worse'- in fact, it's a frame of mind I have to constantly deal with. I work with MIDI as a hobby.

As for Stefan..

Another frustated fan who can only whine about wghat we didn't get instead of being happy that we got so much as we did.

You are worse even then Neil with his whining that OHMSS is missing a cue.

Pathetic!

Oh and welcome to this forum...

Seems like most of your posts

Not at all. That post was a negative one, sure. But it depends on what you're posting for. I was posting as a frustrated fan who's pissed off that in this day and age, record companies can hoard intellectual property to my and other members of the public's, detriment.

But, if I was posting in an 'expanded score' thread, I'd be raving about how happy I was Thunderball (my favourite Connery score) got expanded. And remastered, it sounds spectacular.

Besides, I don't complain because I want to railroad people- I do it for change, and because I hope something can be done. People who merely 'complain' just want to piss and moan and be a party pooper- while I probably come across that way, it's definitely not my intention. I want to galvanise some people into taking up the cause again, because it certainly seems to me like it's been abandoned.

So compare me to someone complaining about one missing cue all you want (and even that apparently fictitiously), but I don't care about any individual cue- I care about soundtracks being out there and appreciated by the masses. It's what I do with my game music website, and I feel the same about Bond- but in this case I'm one guy with absolutely zero power to change what's going on, so naturally that frustrates and upsets me.

I'm hardly saying record companies' heads should roll, or 'death to Kendall', or anything ludicrous like that- I just don't see why the record companies should hoard the soundtracks but also claim it's not commercial to sell them. Put them on DVD's, dammit, or release them on iTunes (no CD costs there), or *something*.

Look at it any way you like, but master tapes sitting in a vault or Abbey Road sucks- the prospect of them sitting there being absolutely no use to anyone is what's pathetic, not my post.

- Spike

[TheCat 0]

It was just cues from "Dr. No," "From Russia With Love," and "Thunderball." Nothing was new. While it might be nice to have, its all music that we already have and can edit ourselves if we really so desire.

That is the case, tracked music pretty much without Barry's knowledge - an afterthought if you will.

Look at it any way you like, but master tapes sitting in a vault or Abbey Road sucks- the prospect of them sitting there being absolutely no use to anyone is what's pathetic, not my post.

The real problem is - they don't sit there at all with the exception of TMWTGG and maybe TSWLM. But the rest - who knows?

[Spikey 0]

The real problem is - they don't sit there at all with the exception of TMWTGG and maybe TSWLM. But the rest - who knows?

I thought Moonraker and AVTAK were the missing ones, and Kendall/you/whoever else knew the locations of Octopussy, TSWLM, TMWTGG and so on.

Once more, thanks to Neil for his guides. I only now saw TLD for the first time since my childhood, and am really grateful for his advice in editing and reordering TLD and other Bond scores (and other forum posters for their takes on things as well). It's really very helpful. Lukas Kendall as well (He did most of them orginally in FSM, right?)

- Spike

[Lurker 5]

It was just cues from "Dr. No," "From Russia With Love," and "Thunderball." Nothing was new. While it might be nice to have, its all music that we already have and can edit ourselves if we really so desire.

That is the case, tracked music pretty much without Barry's knowledge - an afterthought if you will.

So then please tell me precisely which cues these are and where I can find these recordings so that I can assemble this.

Neil

[TheCat 0]

It was just cues from "Dr. No," "From Russia With Love," and "Thunderball." Nothing was new. While it might be nice to have, its all music that we already have and can edit ourselves if we really so desire.

That is the case, tracked music pretty much without Barry's knowledge - an afterthought if you will.

So then please tell me precisely which cues these are and where I can find these recordings so that I can assemble this.

Neil

The cues come from the following - Dr. No (Track 6), FRWL (Track 1) and TB (Track 7).

I thought Moonraker and AVTAK were the missing ones, and Kendall/you/whoever else knew the locations of Octopussy, TSWLM, TMWTGG and so on.

And that helps us exactly how?

[Spikey 0]

And that helps us exactly exactly how?

Well presumably, if the team who's out to resurrect/continue the concept of expanded Bond CD's actually knows where the music is located and therefore the people who own/control it, you have a better chance of success

Besides, I never said any of this helps/doesn't help us. I was saying the music's of no use to anybody (including its' commercial owners) sitting on tapes in some vault, regardless of whether the locations of said vault are known or not.

Back on-topic, Neil and others, for some scores people have posted missing cue lists. Can, or has, anyone done this for "The Living Daylights"? Is there indeed missing music not appearing on the CD (but in the movie)?

- Spike

[TheCat 0]

And that helps us exactly exactly how?

Well presumably, if the team who's out to resurrect/continue the concept of expanded Bond CD's actually knows where the music is located and therefore the people who own/control it, you have a better chance of success

Yeah, only problem - nobody cares.

Back on-topic, Neil and others, for some scores people have posted missing cue lists. Can, or has, anyone done this for "The Living Daylights"? Is there indeed missing music not appearing on the CD (but in the movie)?

Yes. The complete recorded material runs just over 80 minutes. This includes some 6 minutes of tracked material, all source music (including miscellenous material like Kropfitsch scaling practice for Kara) plus about 3 or 4 minutes of unreleased original music that wasn't edited down from existing material.

[Spikey 0]

Thanks man

Yes. The complete recorded material runs just over 80 minutes. This includes some 6 minutes of tracked material, all source music (including miscellenous material like Kropfitsch scaling practice for Kara) plus about 3 or 4 minutes of unreleased original music that wasn't edited down from existing material.

Very interesting.

Yeah, only problem - nobody cares.

As I said to you last night- I care

- Spike

[Wycket 36]

Yeah, only problem - nobody cares.

As I said to you last night- I care

- Spike

Nobody of any importance I'm sure he was implying. Just because one person is interested in some music doesn't mean its going to be released. All of us would love a release of some of this Bond music, but financially it would not be viable to spend all the money for the companies, as I just don't see the public demand great enough to warrant such a release.

Maybe if Craig's next film is a bigger hit than Casino Royale than perhaps you would have a chance, but a slight one at the most I would imagine. Sorry to break your bubble, but we're trying to tell you that the demand just isn't great enough, unfortunately.

[Ollie 1,059]

There is more music than just Bond that is sitting there, waiting to be released.

There is so much more involved to just locating masters and releasing them.

[Spikey 0]

Nobody of any importance I'm sure he was implying. Just because one person is interested in some music doesn't mean its going to be released. All of us would love a release of some of this Bond music, but financially it would not be viable to spend all the money for the companies, as I just don't see the public demand great enough to warrant such a release.

Maybe if Craig's next film is a bigger hit than Casino Royale than perhaps you would have a chance, but a slight one at the most I would imagine. Sorry to break your bubble, but we're trying to tell you that the demand just isn't great enough, unfortunately.

Yeah, I know all this already, man

Obviously, if anybody cared/thought it would be viable, it would have happened long ago.

Your post is kind of an obvious one. My posts were purely aspirational. If I was trying to make things change, I'd be contacting record exec's, not be posting on a movie buff forum

There is more music than just Bond that is sitting there, waiting to be released.

There is so much more involved to just locating masters and releasing them.

Again, a fairly obvious statement. But this thread is about Bond music

I appreciate the latter half of that post. But, given what Kendall and his team could do on a budget with limited time (quite amazing really), I'd think a better team with more time could achieve the same but more (more music, more time to remaster well, etc).

I doubt there's a shortage of audio engineers who'd be interested in helping someone like Lukas or anyone else who took on the project (after getting the go-ahead, which I think we can agree is the hard part).

Look, I don't want to irritate people here, or clash heads. I just wanted to ask questions and get some answers. I've done that. I very much appreciate the efforts of various people in this thread and in terms of expanding old scores. Thanks again to Neil, Lukas, and The Cat and other posters. I'll have fun this weekend cutting up music

- Spike

[Whill 0]

At the David Arnold website ( http://davidarnold.com/ ) I still cannot see how I can dowload the Bond tracks. I use IE, and my temporary internet folder is empty while I am playing them. Please help!

[Whill 0]

Whew! I have read this entire thread twice now (and took better notes the 2nd time). Like many of the topics in this glorious internet community, this thread needs an index of it's own.

After reading the input of several posters, I want to post the track sequences I have decided to go with as far as the Brosnan film chronological soundtracks, and just using the tracks on the original CDs (since that is all I have anyway). In case this helps anyone else...

GoldenEye: 2,1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16

Tomorrow Never Dies: 2,1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,13,12,14,15

The World Is Not Enough: 2,3,1,4,5,6,8,7,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19

Die Another Day: 3,4,1,5,6,7,8,10,9,11,12,13,14,15,2

I don't have the Gun Barrel mp3's for GE and TWINE. I may just use the Gun Barrels I have from other films (and I'm open to recommendations).

The Gun Barrels are so cool at the beginning of a score because they are so distinctive of Bond. They announce: You are about to hear a Bond score.

[TheCat 0]

[Original post deleted]

Drop me a line, Whill.

[Dalton007 0]

Octopussy gunbarrel/military parade opening is on the Octopussy DVD India doc. I captured it, and it's now on Octopussy playlist.

Anybody captured the unreleased Arnold cues?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Were?

[fommes 153]

Meaning: where?

[Dalton007 0]

Were?

From Arnold's website. He's hosting two unreleased TWINE cues, and they are brilliant. Wouldn't mind a copy myself.

[fommes 153]

Read this thread.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ah, old news....

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

Is quantum of solace in order?

I want specially where to put the song.

[indy4 155]

I think "Another Way To Die" goes right after "Time To Get Out," which should be the first track.

Beyond that, I don't know.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The song goes between Time to Get Out and The Palio.

I'm pretty sure everything else is in the proper sequence.

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

Thanks

[Vaderbait1 1]

I would love to have complete scores released, but I seriously think the logistics of releasing 20 complete scores would be mind-numbing to executives.

EDIT: What about a pure online release? Wouldn't that save a lot of the cost of producing and distributing CDs? Make high quality files available for purchase at full CD price or something, then people can buy what they want from it.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They recently released remastered and expanded versions of the scores. At least for most of them.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

A shame that the masters for "From Russia With Love" were never found....

[Greg1138 3]

Unfortunately this thread - a valuable resource - has become a bit of a mess....the result, I think, of the original artwork site that Neil used going down permanenetly (or moving), and board upgrades that have made many posts difficult to make sense of due to mulitple quotes no longer showing up as quotes.....

....no chance of a bit of a clean-up, is there?

Greg

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I can't believe Steef doesn't like the Gladys Knight song. I think it's great!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ocker!

[Lurker 5]

Unfortunately this thread - a valuable resource - has become a bit of a mess....the result, I think, of the original artwork site that Neil used going down permanenetly (or moving), and board upgrades that have made many posts difficult to make sense of due to mulitple quotes no longer showing up as quotes.....

....no chance of a bit of a clean-up, is there?

Greg

That sounds like a huge waste of time and energy.

Neil

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ocker!

I got a licence to kill, and you know I'm goin' straight for your heaaarrrt!

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Wow, my first post was in this thread! I'd forgotten that what compelled me to start posting on JWFan... was something other than JW music. Heh.

Anyway, I looked over my Licence to Kill edits and compared them with The Cat's list, and I should note a couple of corrections:

• That short bit in track 6 (1:10-1:31) that I thought was an alternate version of what I called "Free Fuel" (where Sanchez says the investors can keep the gasoline after the drugs are collected from it) actually appears to just be an unused portion of the music that follows it on the CD (where Sanchez escapes from the truck). It would underscore the part with the trucks right before Sanchez goes off the bridge.
  
• The cut in track 9 is clearly at 3:47. I guess I just made a typo here and copied the mistake, because I had edited them properly.
  
• One thing I don't get on The Cat's list is the first part of track 4 coming right after the other two parts. It's the music for when Bond leaves with Lupe, and that comes after the ninja scene, so I guess this is just a mistake?

The music for that scene where they leave on the boat, which is only 90 minutes into this 133 minute film, is the last music we have until "If You Asked Me To".

I know it's unlikely, but I've got my fingers crossed that this is the Kamen score LaLaLand has planned for this year.

[Greg1138 3]

Wow, my first post was in this thread!

Haha - yeah, think it was among my first 2 or 3 too!

Thanks guys - even just having the posters back so we can see what scores we are on about makes a hell of a damn difference....

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

Is quantum of solace in order?

I want specially where to put the song.

I can think of a very good place to put the song!

I know that it's been cut to pieces, and put back together more times than a whole load of Kraft cheese slices, but does anyone have a chronological running order for "Licence To Kill"?

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Look three posts back.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

<i>Octopussy</i> gunbarrel/military parade opening is on the <i>Octopussy</i> DVD India doc. I captured it, and it's now on <i>Octopussy</i> playlist.

Anybody captured the unreleased Arnold cues?

This might be old news, but the Region 2 DVD has the isolated score, and it is in 5.1, I believe.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

If you mean Tomorrow Never Dies, yes, that's available in Region 1 as well. But if you're talking about Octopussy, then that would be news to me.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,488]

If you mean Tomorrow Never Dies, yes, that's available in Region 1 as well. But if you're talking about Octopussy, then that would be news to me.

No, it is definitely TNDs. It is nice, though, even if it drops in volume every now-and-again.

[JamesBond007 0]

THE END ALL / BE ALL FINAL SEQUENCING OF ALL 22 BOND FILMS

http://sequencingjamesbond007.blogspot.com/

It’s been seven years that this thread has been going on strong and I for one am very glad it’s here. My best friend here in Japan “Flavor Dave” who is now 49 years old is a Bond connoisseur of both the books and film, and unlike many who just seen all the movies, he’s read all the official Ian Fleming novels as well, he is a force to be reckoned with about Bond. Flavor Dave discovered this site and this thread upon it’s initial startup and began following the task of sequencing all the movie soundtracks just as everyone else has been. But his goal and agenda unlike a few of the people here is different. He actually wants to “sequence” (by definition of the word) the music as it is heard in the movies. His goal is not to make a soundtrack and put the music where the composer would have put it. Ultimately it is the director alongside the editor who decides what pieces of music available is best suited for which scenes. The James Bond film canon (all movies/each movie) is not the vision of the composer but rather the director as everyone should know. What you see and hear is what is intended as the final vision. When Dave (Me also) goes to listen to one his self made soundtracks he wants to listen to a soundtrack that will give him thoughts and recollection of the different scenes in the movie and sequencing helps play a big factor in that.

Flavor Dave has been hard at work on this project for seven years and thus far he has gone above and beyond what I have seen others do with the project. Dave’s original work has all been originally based on the conversations on this site but a lot of errors have been found in many of them with song titles, artist titles, sequencing order etc. so he took what he could from the resources available and discarded the rest. He has already a completed a set of complete albums which he dubs the “007 Master Mix” after each soundtrack title. And even though I consider his work to be the best, he as well as myself has still seen room for improvement to release an ultimate comprehensive set of CDs. I as both a Pro DJ in Tokyo looking for more ways to get my name out across the world and as lover of James Bond, took it upon myself to take up his mantle and continue his work. Being his successor isn’t easy but I am going through each film, in order of release date making the end-all-be-all definitive James Bond soundtracks. I’m glad to say I got Flavor Dave on my side as support to help me complete the project. The biggest help he is giving me is with his resources which includes all the soundtracks to the films legally bought as well as additional album compilation releases. He has just ordered an additional six CD’s from amazon.com and once we receive those in the mail the final mastering will take place. I am building my “Special Edition” CDs from about no less than 40 different CDs which all contain James Bond music on them.

I’m not here to brag or boast about my work, but at the same time I do have to admit that what I’ve done is very good and comprehensive work. I’m glad to say that things really started taking off recently and in the past two weeks I was able to finalize the first two movie soundtracks (My 28 track "Dr. No [special Edition]” and 35 track “From Russia With Love [special Edition]"). My project is so big and ambitious that I had to go about creating a dedicated blog/email address because I am quite sure in the future and as I get closer to the end this will draw a lot of internet traffic and attention to myself. Just wanting to be prepared for that.

If anyone is looking to consult with me (DJ Antomattei of Tokyo) or Flavor Dave (pseudonym) or help us with what we are doing, don’t be afraid to contact us. Furthermore I would like for everyone to take a look at the blog (which is a lot of reading just to be four post at the moment) and give us some feedback on what you think so far about what we are doing.

Blog: http://sequencingjamesbond007.blogspot.com/

Email: sequencingjamesbond007@gmail.com

[fommes 153]

Sigh.

[Ollie 1,059]

That's not a proper welcome.

[fommes 153]

Welcomes are for the Welcome Board!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Why make such a big fuss about creating Bond CDs that feature DVD rips? As long as there are no new, truly unreleased tracks on these discs, I don't see the point.

And honestly, I don't think this is such a unique concept - I would guess any serious score collector has done a chronological 007 soundtrack series himself, using the official soundtracks and other CD sources. So, this is hardly new.

Also, watching all the movies and reading all novels doesn't make one a "James Bond expert" beyond the normal degree of fandom.

I would like to add that putting a trailer as the first track of a soundtrack album seems like a completely redundant and, excuse the wording, dumb idea. I wouldn't want my complete Moonraker album start with the damn trailer.

Plus, you make it sound as if the directors/editors more or less butchered John Barry's musical vision for the films, which seems a highly dubious and questionable statement.

Does this sound like I had a bad day ...?

[Wojo 2,453]

What gkgyver meant to say was "Hi, JamesBond007."

But seriously, the notion that the director's vision is instantly superior to the composer's vision undermines any creative input that the composer might have had.

This entire project seeks to create DVD perfect isolated scores from each movie. And that's fine if that's what you're into, replaying the movie down to the second in your mind.

But if a film loops moments of music and repeats tracks all over the place, or hacks apart songs and score cues as the action dictates abruptly, such that you don't notice it in the movie but it becomes jarringly noticeable in an isolated manner, then I wouldn't want it. I'm not a big James Bond score fan, and Barry's suite is really enough for me.

It's as if somebody heard the UE of TPM and compared it to somebody's "composer intended" version, and preferred the UE. Trent will be along shortly to elaborate.

I've heard isolated score representations of a film whose OST I adored, like "At World's End," and the isolated score was complete garbage and impossible to listen to.

[gkgyver 1,645]

What gkgyver meant to say was "Hi, JamesBond007."

Yeah, that too ...

Let me wrap my head around this completely: you want to take all available Bond soundtracks, which a lot of hard work went into to gather as much original and untampered material of the composers' vision, just to cut it apart again and create a "007 Master Mix" that is incomplete and in parts jarring and hard to listen to.

And you hope to make your name known with this. Moreover, you expect people to run your door in for this.

I see.

And we're sure MGM hasn't been sold to Lucasfilm?

A good word of advice: you're on a board where even newly released complete or expanded scores are being nitpicked on, so promoting a project where you hack up already complete scores won't do much good.

That said, it just boggles my mind that you would take a brilliant piece of music like "White Knight" and slice it up, loop it, stitch it together like the film version, and call it ultimate version.

Again, the Broccolis don't have a deal with Lucasfilm?

[JamesBond007 0]

More notes on what I am doing

I used this site as a reference point because it is good work (Post #80 RobTheHand did good work), and I don’t want to lead people to believe that I don’t think it isn’t. At the same time I noticed errors and room for improvement. Some people wrote bad track titles that don’t correctly reflect the scene and the ordering is wrong. My goal is to build upon already existing work and make it even better. Example during post #5 it says “MP3 Needed:” Something I am doing different is not using mp3s because they degrade audio. People like to say 320 kbps is near CD quality, it’s not even close, it’s about as far apart as DVDs and Blu-Rays. My project will have zero audio degradation because I only work with and edit the original 1411 kbps audio files from the original remastered CDs or other compilation CDs. I want to keep some type of guidelines of integrity to work by when I do this project so working in the .wav format is a must. I know that many people wanting to do this project may potentially be downloading the tracks they need or just simply stealing the entire albums from piratebay.org. I don’t work that way, big difference.

Point 2 While many have contributed what they did for some albums I want to create a resource that people can reference for all 22 albums. Out of 395 posts some of them is good stuff, a lot of it is filler or repeat statements or questions. For a quick reference how many times do you want to go through nearly 400 posts just to find what you are looking for?

Point 3 So far I completed 2 CDs, compare my FRWL with that of posts numbers 5, 71 and 110. My “core” soundtrack material is better organized and I include a lot of bonus tracks at the end starting from track 31.

Post #324 I only used DVD rips where there are no vocals, SFX or very minimal of that. I give the guy a lot of credit because this was the first time in years and in 300 posts that someone finally attempted to sequence Dr. No. He was the only one. This version however has too many DVD rips.

@ gkgyver & Wojo

I think the answer is quite simple. The post title is “Sequencing Bond”, if that is the goal and you are wanting all unaltered music then you are clashing with the objective. And if you want unaltered music it is recommended you buy and simply listen to the retail soundtrack the way it is presented to you “unedited”. To try to put it in order as according to where the composer wants it is difficult. Unless the composer spoke out and told you himself personally or in a magazine or what have you where he wants the music, you don’t know where it belongs. Another problem is that for example sometimes the composer may be watching a scene from the movie while scoring that scene, his composition could possibly go on longer than the scene although it had already finished; but you get the whole song on the soundtrack. Yet another example, in the movie “Shaft", Isaac Hayes made some source music that is suppose to play in a bar called the "No Name Bar”, and it was very loungy sounding. The music was then moved over to a scene that took place in a cafe called “Cafe Reggio’s” because it was better suited, leaving different music to play in the No Name Bar. Who can claim they know where the 7+ obscure tracks on the Dr. No soundtrack are “suppose” to go. We can only assume about the composer’s vision, but the final version as heard in the film we know how to sequence for certain because we have the movies as a reference and as evidence.

Does anybody think the composer doesn’t know his music is going to be cut up and rearranged? Of course he knows that, it is expected and more than likely he is fine with it otherwise he wouldn’t do it am I correct or not? He’s getting paid just to score the film, he does have his say and his input but the director/producer/editor can disagree because the composers vision can clash with theirs. Let’s say the MPAA is coming down on the producer which trickles down to the director for having a too violent scene in the movie, so some portions of the violent scene need to be cut. If the scene is scored and the editor has to go in there to remove some parts the score is already out of whack / out of sync with the visuals on screen, then further creative choices need to be made with the already completed music.

Now I’m not saying I am going to just pull out my katana and start making sushi out of music and have things just starting and ending abruptly. Do you seriously think that’s what I am trying to do? Have you taken a look at the blog first before replying? Take a look at my track listing so that you can get a general idea of what I am trying to do. I think my vision of “Sequencing Bond” comes a lot closer to matching the title of the original post than the original posters.

@ gkgyver

The “James Bond Theme” played during the opening titles of Dr. No sounds pretty good to me and it is all “sliced up, looped, and stitched together”

@ Wojo

The DVD perfect isolated score on the “Leon The Professional” International Cut DVD also sounds pretty good to me.

I’m still trying to figure out what the argument is about. Competition is healthy so I challenge anyone to make a better compilation to upstage me if they choose to, starting with gkgyver. Would be better though to work together with people and for people to give me advice if they see errors in my work or have real advice to take into consideration.

[Wojo 2,453]

Hooray!

[Ollie 1,059]

So if I understand, you're creating a film order, minus the looping and tracking, as the director intended?

[Jay 37,249]

Wan't the original intent of this thread already to sequence the Bond CDs into film order?