Aliandra 90 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I just noticed this. In that concert work, "Must the Devil Have All the Good Tunes?", Adams draws inspiration from Henry Mancini's Peter Gunn, which of course Williams was the original pianist for back in the day. Why do I have the feeling that the "devil" that Adams refers to, is John Williams. That that classical pianist will show Williams a thing or two about playing the piano. Am I reading too much into this, or could Adams be such a John Williams hater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,465 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 No, I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,903 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I doubt it too. Remember Adams grew up in the 60's where tunes were very much out of fashion compared to the avant garde. His musical style was a rejection of the academic trends of his time plus his early influences were pop and jazz. His dad was a jazz musician and Adams started as a clarinetist in local school bands and community orchestras where he had a love of the 60's pop and jazz. I really, really don't think he has anything negative to say about Williams since he's also seen as a populist hack in classical elitist world because his music is very popular and tuneful. MrJosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12-Mile Reef 123 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 When I first saw the John Adams title I immediately thought of Charlie Daniels’ “The Devil Went Down to Georgia” where the Devil’s music was obviously cooler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,497 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 In the big scheme of things, what Adams thinks of JW, is as about as important as what I think of a bacon sarnie: not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2022 I dunno - to me it looks as though John Adams was just about to slap John Williams in that photograph, before noticing that there was a camera on him. eitam, Naïve Old Fart, Giftheck and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 You people are a circus. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,029 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I think the devil Adams is referring to is Hans Zimmer. crumbs and GerateWohl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,497 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 59 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I think the devil Adams is referring to is Hans Zimmer. ... ... ... ... Nailed it, dude! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 This gossip should be beneath the likes of this forum. Very unhealthy way of thinking of these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,272 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 "If Star Wars didn't have that evil imprint, they wouldn't sell two tickets. Satan sells tickets." - Jack Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 No, but he hated Thomas Jefferson Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,497 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Fart is, understandably, obviously not well versed in American history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomoog the Ecstatic 314 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 04/01/2022 at 9:05 AM, Glóin the Dark said: I dunno - to me it looks as though John Adams was just about to slap John Williams in that photograph, before noticing that there was a camera on him. ↑ 0:13 ↓ Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 4/1/2022 at 8:39 PM, bruce marshall said: No, but he hated Thomas Jefferson It would be more correct to say their relationship was complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 They had a pretty big feud. No duels at dawn, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 no one hates the maestro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,392 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Except for Brian Eno, apparently, and J.K. Rowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: J.K. Rowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 21 hours ago, Edmilson said: Except for Brian Eno, apparently, and J.K. Rowling. Wait what did I miss, JK Rowling talked shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,465 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Yeah, that must have passed me by too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 22 hours ago, Edmilson said: Except for Brian Eno, apparently, and J.K. Rowling. Eno doesn't hate Williams. He just doesn't understand why a super talented and successful film composer as Williams refuses to take artistic risks. And he has a point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,392 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Lord Zimmer said: Wait what did I miss, JK Rowling talked shit? It's a common theory among JW fans that Rowling didn't like Williams' HP scores and prevented him from scoring the final movies. I don't know how true this is, but we have a whole thread debating the issue: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34097-jk-rowling-didnt-like-jw-because-the-music-didnt-sound-english-enough-fact-or-fiction/&do=findComment&comment=1831336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,029 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, AC1 said: Eno doesn't hate Williams. He just doesn't understand why a super talented and successful film composer as Williams refuses to take artistic risks. And he has a point! Well, he did score Stepmom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,465 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, Edmilson said: It's a common theory among JW fans that Rowling didn't like Williams' HP scores and prevented him from scoring the final movies. I don't know how true this is, but we have a whole thread debating the issue: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34097-jk-rowling-didnt-like-jw-because-the-music-didnt-sound-english-enough-fact-or-fiction/&do=findComment&comment=1831336 We need less theory and speculation, more fact. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,029 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Thor said: We need less theory and speculation, more fact. You should interview Rowling for your book, Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Edmilson said: It's a common theory among JW fans that Rowling didn't like Williams' HP scores and prevented him from scoring the final movies. I don't know how true this is, but we have a whole thread debating the issue: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34097-jk-rowling-didnt-like-jw-because-the-music-didnt-sound-english-enough-fact-or-fiction/&do=findComment&comment=1831336 Okay so based on literally nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 The smear campaign against Rowling goes back farther than we thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,029 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Of course Rowling likes John Williams, a CIS white male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: John Williams, a CIS white male. Composer In Slacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,029 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Probably, that's the only meaning I'm aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,497 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 It's short for cisgender. Bottom line; if you're born male, and you stay male, then you are cis. It's the opposite of trans. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 28/01/2022 at 5:47 AM, Thor said: We need more theory and speculation, less fact. Our Motto!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I can't image the composer of a piece like City Noir "hating" a man like John Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 The original post wasn't just based on nothing, but seems to be the reasoning of the truly insane paranoid personality. I'd even argue it's worthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,029 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, Loert said: I can't image the composer of a piece like City Noir "hating" a man like John Williams. Perhaps the guitarist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 WOW! You are totally right. Thank you for that. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,801 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 28/01/2022 at 9:26 AM, AC1 said: Eno doesn't hate Williams. He just doesn't understand why a super talented and successful film composer as Williams refuses to take artistic risks. And he has a point! He takes risks in his concert works, which rarely get discussed in the mainstream eye. Loert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliandra 90 Posted December 17, 2022 Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 Interesting thoughts from classical composer John Adams on film music from a recent interview. Interviewer: But if you hear, say, that Hans Zimmer did the soundtrack to Dune, are you excited, you’ll go see it and hear it, or it’s a peripheral interest for you? John Adams: I'm almost always very frustrated by the low level of inspiration in film composing. I think that film composers market themselves and basically give directors what they want. And a lot of the taste that even the greatest directors—people like Steven Spielberg—have is just very sentimental and, to me, rather tacky, which is why most of the film score music I like comes from France or Italy, not America. https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/john-adams/ BB-8 and JTN 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,465 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Old news. Adams has been critical of Williams before. But they seem to get along IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,385 Posted December 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2022 To quote, Jay.... Who? Edmilson, Manakin Skywalker, Brando and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Click-baiting title? JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,002 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 20 hours ago, Aliandra said: Interesting thoughts from classical composer John Adams on film music from a recent interview. Interviewer: But if you hear, say, that Hans Zimmer did the soundtrack to Dune, are you excited, you’ll go see it and hear it, or it’s a peripheral interest for you? John Adams: I'm almost always very frustrated by the low level of inspiration in film composing. I think that film composers market themselves and basically give directors what they want. And a lot of the taste that even the greatest directors—people like Steven Spielberg—have is just very sentimental and, to me, rather tacky, which is why most of the film score music I like comes from France or Italy, not America. These days now, a lot of films don’t even have a composer. They have a music consultant. You’ll get a film, let’s say a Coen brothers film, which would be a great film, but the music comes from all different sources, maybe three or four different pop artists or whatever. https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/john-adams/ I don't see where John Adams criticizes John Williams. He talks about film composers in general and he criticizes the taste of directors like Steven Spielberg. I understand that John Williams has a friendly relationship with John Adams, I think he has said in an interview that he enjoys the music of Mr. Adams. With that said I don't agree with Mr. Adams' take at all. What he says: "I think that film composers market themselves and basically give directors what they want." is basically what a film composer is required to do, it's their job, to do what the director wants, because it's the director's film that the composer has to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom 4,636 Posted December 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Bellosh said: To quote, Jay.... Who? Second president of the USA. Manakin Skywalker, Taikomochi, Cerebral Cortex and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,173 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Yes, I don't see it as a criticism of JW, and especially not of his abilities as a composer. It's a personal criticism on the standard Hollywood style of film music, and the specific standard tropes that are often requested of composers. Not too surprising coming from a composer who himself has a very specific voice that's rather distinct from most of the stuff Hollywood producers and directors request. (In that context, I'd be interested in what he thinks of Don Davis and his Matrix scores). Interesting though that his comment doesn't comment on the question's specific example of Hans Zimmer and his Dune score, which arguably falls outside the traditional Hollywood score sound, but at the same time doesn't strike me as musically very interesting or accomplished. 20 hours ago, JTW said: With that said I don't agree with Mr. Adams' take at all. What he says: "I think that film composers market themselves and basically give directors what they want." is basically what a film composer is required to do, it's their job, to do what the director wants, because it's the director's film that the composer has to serve. True, but it's also understandable that a composer of concert music who doesn't have a specific personal interest in film music would find that modus operandi quite limiting. Especially now that almost all of the classically trained film composer (who brought their training to Hollywood and thus shaped the sound and style of the typical film scores, and at a time when music was still a more prominent aspect of a film and not contending with sound effects for space) are gone and many of those working today have in fact grown up with a certain standard sound (rather than shaping that sound and combining it with their own style based on their non-film music training) and often have, at least in the blockbuster area, very little room for innovation or a distinct voice of their own. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted December 17, 2022 Too sentimental? Nobody play him Puccini! In seriousness, I love John Adams' music, and I love John Williams' music. There is enough room in music for all approaches. Marian Schedenig, JTN and j39m 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 796 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Film music from France and Italy can be just as -if not more (!)- sentimental as American film music. I think Adams just doesn't get the concept of film music, or film in general for that matter. JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,392 Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 So, according to Adams, Hollywood film music is bad because composers give what their directors want. Using that logic, does he think that French and Italian music are better because their composers... do not give what their directors want? So they go in a completely different direction? I've seen quite a few French/Italian movies, and that doesn't seem to be truth at all. JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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