The Fury vs. The Omen

[GerateWohl 4,335]

These are two OSTs that belong for me somehow together and a comparison makes sense. Both are high quality scores for mediocre horror movies from the late 70s by respectable directors of the New Hollywood aera.

 

Maybe you also like to share why you prefer the one or the other.

 

I have to say, this is a tough one for me.

What I can say, that I count The Omen into my absolute favourite Goldsmith scores, but even though I like The Fury a lot, I probably wouldn't even consider it a top ten Williams. Still I find both scores comparable.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

The Omen is a very good Goldsmith score, but The Fury is a very, very good Williams score. It's also the better film, and especially the better combination of film and score (no wonder considering De Palma made it). With The Omen, mostly the score and the basic concept makes me feel that it should be a really good film, but actually watching it always leaves me at least a bit disappointed.

[Tallguy 3,370]

I haven't even thought of The Fury in over 30 years. And in the last day I've read three threads on it. And listened to the LP on YouTube.

 

Maybe I should give The Omen a chance but that's one of those Goldsmith scores that I can realize is amazing but still a very hard listen. I've only ever heard select cues outside the film.

[Edmilson 7,392]

The Omen has been one of my favorite Goldsmith scores, and actually one of my favorite horror scores in general, since I started listening to it. I love The Dogs Attack and The Killer Storm. It was a well deserved Oscar.

 

As for The Fury, I don't remember anything from it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The Fury is absolute top tier Williams IMO.  I think it would make my top 10 non-Spielberg/non-Star Wars Williams scores if I made such a list.

[Thor 7,465]

Tricky.

 

In terms of films, THE OMEN is the more sober and better executed, overall. Good craft, even if fairly non-descript in terms of auteur elements (the late Donner was no auteur!). Vice versa, THE FURY has some very hokey elements, but at the same time some beautiful auteur moments -- classic De Palma, as in the slomo scene as Gilligan escapes the Paragon(?) institute. I picked THE OMEN, but just by the tiniest margins.

 

Score-wise, there's no competition. THE FURY all the way -- muscular and Herrmannic. I like THE OMEN, but it's a bit of a one-trick pony.

[GerateWohl 4,335]

44 minutes ago, Thor said:

I like THE OMEN, but it's a bit of a one-trick pony.

Today I listened to both scores again and found, this statement of yours pretty much nails it. It is this well executed Carmina Burana thing that works well in the Omen score. But that's more or less it. Williams has there more to offer of sophisticated music writing in the Fury score.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

The Omen is neither a one trick pony (there's far more to it than just the famous choral theme) and it has very little to do with Carmina Burana. If anything, it's much more Stravinsky than Orff.

[GerateWohl 4,335]

27 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

it's much more Stravinsky than Orff.

I beg your pardon. I specifically disagree with that statement.

 

Since we are talking about similarities. Just realised that Williams' Call of the Crystal from Indy 4 (track 2 on the OST) sounds quite a lot like the main theme of The Fury. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

The Fury AINEC.

[Andy 4,083]

The Omen just bristles with interesting textures.  The pizzicato and percussive material are what bring me back frequently.  Forget the choral chanting.  If that's the one trick pony to which Thor is referring,  I'd suggest listening beneath it.  I'd love  for a choir-less version to be released.

 

The Fury is wonderful, but for whatever reason, I don't listen to it frequently, although it shares some similarity to Dracula, which I enjoy a little more. 

 

Film vs. Film, it's no contest.  The Omen is just terrific fun, very accessible, and never boring.  The Fury is over the top, but not wholly satisfying.  And sometimes unintentionally funny.

[Thor 7,465]

My "one-trick-pony" comment was not restricted to the Orff-esque "Ave Satani" stuff, of course. I've had the soundtrack since the 90s and listened to it countless times. I'm aware it has other elements, and I like the score. But the dissonant/primal elements cannot compare to the huge mythological display in JW's THE FURY. It just plays on a whole other set of strings.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

32 minutes ago, Thor said:

My "one-trick-pony" comment was not restricted to the Orff-esque "Ave Satani" stuff, of course. I've had the soundtrack since the 90s and listened to it countless themes. I'm aware it has other elements, and I like the score. But the dissonant/primal elements cannot compare to the huge mythological display in JW's THE FURY. It just plays on a whole other set of strings.

 

I still disagree with that (I don't think the difference is nearly as huge as you say), but it also doesn't really sound like a one-trick thing to me. If anything, Williams's own mono-thematic Dracula would fit that description, but it's still too varied for that (but I'd argue The Omen is more varied still - for the juxtaposition of the Satanic main theme and the saccharine family theme alone, both of which make up significant parts of the score).

 

[Thor 7,465]

That's fine. We can agree to disagree.

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

I guess it all comes down to the difference in finesse.

[rough cut 1,714]

The Omen is the better movie. The Fury is the better score.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

it's much more Stravinsky than Orff.

I beg your pardon. I specifically disagree with that statement.

 

Fine - but why? For one thing, Carmina Burana is itself much more varied than it's usually given credit for (especially when likening other works to it). Aside from the bombast of Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, you also get the tender minimalism of Primo vere, the faux-medieval elements of Uf dem anger, and the lusty eroticism of Cour d'amours - among others. What ties almost all of it together is an often primal, intentional extreme simplicity through an exclusion of almost all complexity. Almost all of its progressions are based on repetition, usually song-style based on multiple verses, with or without a refrain. Throughout the verses, the music intensifies not through added complexity, but mere (and often slight) variations in instrumentation. For most of it, the most complex harmonic variations you get on the way to a piece's climax is an added third or fifth in the choir parts.

 

Orff's work has of course been hugely influential for (not only) film music, and not just because a (very) few of its major set pieces have frequently (not as often as people claim, but often enough) been copied - there's also a lot of technical detail (e.g. in its instrumentation) that's become more or less commonplace, and some of the more minimalistic bits could be straight out of Glass's Koyaanisqatsi or Akhnaten.

 

As far as comparisons go, Carmina Burana has mostly become synonymous (just for Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, which is just one aspect of the full work) with a huge orchestra and a huge choir singing in Latin. But Latin lyrics were the norm before (and after) Orff, and aside from being in Latin, Goldsmith's Ave Satani really doesn't have either a huge choir or orchestra, and while it's rather straightforward in its main title version, it's still much more complex than Orff's piece (which intentionally isn't) - and while much of Goldsmith's dramatic underscore is also based on repetition, it always works through added complexity, again the exact opposite of Orff's approach.

 

If you're looking for Orff-ish stuff in film music (aside from direct lifts), the finale of Goldsmith's First Knight would be closer, or perhaps even Williams's Duel of the Fates (although both harmonically and structurally it goes clearly beyond Orff's signature simplicity) - or indeed Shore's approach for LOTR, which (beyond the "obvious" simiarities in the Nazgul music and its overall instrumental and vocal forces) is almost entirely based on intentional, primal simplicity.

 

The bottom line is perhaps that I'm rather allergic to this common comparison because it manages to do neither Orff's nor Goldsmith's works justice.

[Jurassic Shark 12,029]

18 minutes ago, Thor said:

That's fine. We can agree to disagree.

 

Nah, let's disagree to agree.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

59 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

the juxtaposition of the Satanic main theme and the saccharine family theme

Not only that, but especially the transition between those two sides is something that puts it ahead of The Fury alone. These kind of terrific horror-related subtleties as they can be heard in The Omen (in Don't Let Him for example) rarely occur in Williams' work at all.

 

By the way, great post, @Marian Schedenig!

[GerateWohl 4,335]

35 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Fine - but why? For one thing, Carmina Burana is itself much more varied than it's usually given credit for (especially when likening other works to it). Aside from the bombast of Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, you also get the tender minimalism of Primo vere, the faux-medieval elements of Uf dem anger, and the lusty eroticism of Cour d'amours - among others. What ties almost all of it together is an often primal, intentional extreme simplicity through an exclusion of almost all complexity. Almost all of its progressions are based on repetition, usually song-style based on multiple verses, with or without a refrain. Throughout the verses, the music intensifies not through added complexity, but mere (and often slight) variations in instrumentation. For most of it, the most complex harmonic variations you get on the way to a piece's climax is an added third or fifth in the choir parts.

 

Orff's work has of course been hugely influential for (not only) film music, and not just because a (very) few of its major set pieces have frequently (not as often as people claim, but often enough) been copied - there's also a lot of technical detail (e.g. in its instrumentation) that's become more or less commonplace, and some of the more minimalistic bits could be straight out of Glass's Koyaanisqatsi or Akhnaten.

 

As far as comparisons go, Carmina Burana has mostly become synonymous (just for Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, which is just one aspect of the full work) with a huge orchestra and a huge choir singing in Latin. But Latin lyrics were the norm before (and after) Orff, and aside from being in Latin, Goldsmith's Ave Satani really doesn't have either a huge choir or orchestra, and while it's rather straightforward in its main title version, it's still much more complex than Orff's piece (which intentionally isn't) - and while much of Goldsmith's dramatic underscore is also based on repetition, it always works through added complexity, again the exact opposite of Orff's approach.

 

If you're looking for Orff-ish stuff in film music (aside from direct lifts), the finale of Goldsmith's First Knight would be closer, or perhaps even Williams's Duel of the Fates (although both harmonically and structurally it goes clearly beyond Orff's signature simplicity) - or indeed Shore's approach for LOTR, which (beyond the "obvious" simiarities in the Nazgul music and its overall instrumental and vocal forces) is almost entirely based on intentional, primal simplicity.

 

The bottom line is perhaps that I'm rather allergic to this common comparison because it manages to do neither Orff's nor Goldsmith's works justice.

To me Ave Satani sounds exactly that: Simplistic and medieval, especially with its "baseline". Its brillant, but not very sophisticated. That's rather Williams' territory. The variations of Ave Satani through out the score are great, but it is all based on that simple piece.

And Stravinski is famous for many things, but not necessarily for writing medieval choir music with latin lyrics.

[Tom Guernsey 2,280]

Would have to come down on the side of The Omen for both but they are both terrific scores. I’m fairly indifferent about the movies which both have their hokey moments but are enjoyable pulpy horror. I’m totally with @Marian Schedenig that The Omen score owes far more to Stravinsky than Orff. Carmina Burana (O Fortuna at least) is grand and relatively simplistic while The Omen is full of offbeat rhythms where the accents fall on unexpected beats of the bar (very Rite of Spring). The instrumentation is fairly similar to Rite of Spring but with choir over the top.

 

I know it’s bad form to say “well I would have made this comparison instead” but The Omen and Jaws are probably a much better pair of scores to compare; they both have Stravinskian DNA in the writing, won Oscars, are from subsequent years (so are chronologically closer together) and perhaps most critically are essential elements of their respective films. Jaws is almost certainly the better movie, but JW’s score is really integral to making it what it is. The score for the Omen is even more integral to making the film watchable. Some of the death scenes in particular are slow moving and uninvolving on their own but add in the hair raising score and they are suddenly terrifying. Back to the original comparator, The Fury is a much more romantic effort rather than one of the key dramatic driving forces behind the film.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

24 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

The variations of Ave Satani through out the score are great, but it is all based on that simple piece.

 

Another major difference to Orff, or even two: Carmina Burana has virtually no variations, and its various parts are all almost entirely independent.  

[GerateWohl 4,335]

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Another major difference to Orff, or even two: Carmina Burana has virtually no variations, and its various parts are all almost entirely independent.  

es. I think this is a misunderstanding. I was basically talking about the main title Ave Satani, not the score as a whole. 

[LSH 968]

I've never heard The Fury.

[Bespin 8,479]

Lamest 303rd post ever.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

I think The Fury is slightly better but it's perhaps because it has such a better expanded presentation than The Omen. Anyway both are amazing, haunting scores among the best of the genre.

Still haven't seen the Omen yet so I don't know about the movie itself but I really liked The Fury