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Indiana Jones and the mystery of cue 2m1


Hayden Jonas
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Happy new year to everyone,

I am currently working on the project of engraving the complete Raiders of the Lost Ark score for my own personal home library in a printed definitive-edition-sort-of-style. Included will be a proper front page, a content page, an in-depth theme analysis, an instrumentation list, a proper introduction text, performance notes, notes regarding alterations between film and album versions, notes regarding sync points between film and the music as well as a cue by cue analysis accompanying each cue.

I also want to include a list of music that can be heard in the film but won't be included in note form because (I assume) it was not written by Williams, e. g. all of the source music.

By looking at the cue numbers, you can conclude that they must include the diegetic music as well, otherwise, some of the numberings wouldn't make sense (assuming there aren't huge chunks of music composed for the film, we have never heard of, which I find unlikely).

For example, "To Cairo" has the cue number 4m2 while the next official cue "Escape in the Alleys" has the number 4m4/5m1 which leads me to the conclusion that the "missing" 4m3 cue must be the market source music. Same thing with 5m2, which must be the source music that can be heard in the bar scene. Regarding those two cues comes my first question: Do we know if these two pieces of diegetic music were specifically composed for the film (maybe even by Williams)? If so, does  a lead sheet exist for them out there (like for the source music in Last Crusade or Phantom Menace, for instance)? Or are those pieces of exisiting music (if so, do we know their origin?) that were just edited in there?   

A more drastic example left me bewildered at first: How can "En Bateau" be 10m4 when the last cue by Williams before this is numbered 9m1b? Well, the only logical conclusion is, that even the slightest bit of music counts towards the cue numbers, because then the number 10m4 makes sense: 10m1 is the crew of the Bantu Wind singing, 10m2 is Sallah's second Gilbert and Sullivan recital, and 10m3 must be Marion's whistling of Gilbert and Sullivan when she enters the cabin. Would you agree with this?

Considering this, there is only one case in the film, where the numbering still doesn't make sense, and that is the cue 2m1 which would underscore the scene of Indy and Belloq talking after Indy has escaped the rolling boulder. Now, I remember that I saw a video on Youtube some time ago, which I can't find anymore (but it was also discussed briefly in this forum) where Williams (I think it was him?) conducted live to this very scene and there was music there (nothing special but still; I only remember some Mickey-Mousing for when Indy hands Belloq his gun). Does this video still exist somewhere? Maybe I can at least pull off a rough ear transcription.

So in my mind, there are multiple scenarios here for this cue:

A) 2m1 was written specifically for this live presentation to give the orchestra something to do and did not exist before. So maybe when composing the score in 1981, Williams conceived the number 2m1 as a sort of placeholder just in case the demand that this scene would need some music would arise later.

B) Williams wrote the music in 1981 but it was decided that the scene should remain unscored before it could go over the sketch/handwritten full score state and was therefore never recorded.

C) 2m1 was written and recorded in 1981 but the recording was never released for some reason.

What do you think about these possibilities?

Whichever it may be, as a perfectionist, it still kind of bothers me that I won't be able to include 2m1 in my score and it, therefore, won't be complete with all the music Williams composed for Raiders.

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You have everything exactly right.

 

Reel/part numbers are set aside for ALL music, whether written specifically for the film or already existing, and whether Williams was involved with it or not.

 

So yes, you have it all correct about why 10M4 is 10M4 and not 10M1, because of those 3 bits of singing/whistling, for example.

 

And yes, sometimes cue #s are set aside for cues that never end up getting written.  So yes, they very likely set aside 2M1 for a score cue to underscore Belloq and Indy talking.  Maybe back in 1981 he did sketch out some ideas, maybe he even finished the cue, we'll probably never know, but it was certainly never recorded, that is certain.

 

When he premiered music for that scene in concert, he either wrote it brand new from scratch, or found some old sketch from 1981 and re-used that, again we'll probably never know.

 

I too remember watching the scene with the music on youtube, bummer that it's been taken down.  Maybe sometime who sees this thread can find it, or upload it themselves if they saved it?

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He may very well have composed it just for the LTP.  When he performed the opening sequence at Tanglewood 12 or so year ago, he added new music to parts that are unscored in the movie for a better listening experience, so he is not averse to that approach.  

 

Edit: I didn't know I was responding to the same cue with my reply. 

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Many thanks for all your replies.


Anything about the Cairo source music?
I'm not sure about this information - maybe it was just in a dream that I had - but I think I remember someone saying in a podcast that it consists of songs by a particular Egyptian band. I first thought I heard that on the Soundtrack Show, but I checked his episodes on Raiders again, and apparently, I seem to be mistaken.


Oh, and another thing: Is there any place on the internet where I can find and read the full liner notes that come with the DCC Compact Classics release of the Raiders soundtrack? I would like to quote them into my own analysis.

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3 minutes ago, Hayden Jonas said:

Anything about the Cairo source music?

 

I've honestly never paid attention to it 🤷‍♂️

 

3 minutes ago, Hayden Jonas said:

Oh, and another thing: Is there any place on the internet where I can find and read the full liner notes that come with the DCC Compact Classics release of the Raiders soundtrack? I would like to quote them into my own analysis.

 

You can buy a used copy on Amazon for $4.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000008152

 

It's worth owning, as it is superior to the Concord disc

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4 hours ago, Jay said:

 

I've honestly never paid attention to it 🤷‍♂️

 

 

You can buy a used copy on Amazon for $4.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000008152

 

It's worth owning, as it is superior to the Concord disc

The thing is, I already bought one, but since I'm not living in America, the shipping takes forever. :( I thought maybe I could bypass the waiting, but thanks nonetheless.

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Scans of the booklet might be online somewhere!  I honestly have no idea how to find that stuff; There's a website called Album Art Exchange, but that's just for front covers I think.

 

Maybe somebody who sees this will PM you scans of the booklet (I don't have any myself)

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8 minutes ago, Jay said:

No problem at all linking to sites like that.  Nice find!

 

Yeah it's got a good number of the Williams releases in there, They had Eiger in there pretty quick after release.

Someone spent a heap of time scanning.. Even the book from the FSM Blue Box was in there.  Wonder who took their book apart for that!?

 

I like it because I've got a digital copy of everything just in case disaster ever befalls the house. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Ha ha. Yes, that's me. Still at Meta working on AR interaction models. Here's a link to the team's work that I am part of it - long term research. I love it. https://tech.fb.com/inside-reality-labs-meet-the-team-thats-bringing-touch-to-the-digital-world/

 

Oh yes, and I'm a professor too.

 

Part time.

 

 

7 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

wtf-will.gif

 

I'll never look at the Oculus episode of South Park the same. :lol:

 

Yep, that was a blast. Having seen what they did with World of Warcraft and Guitar Hero, I knew they would be a positive on Oculus too and make just enough fun of us. I manager our customer support team at that time, and they just loved the episode. 

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Reading the thread title too quickly, I thought this was about the YOUNG INDY episode "Indiana Jones and the Mystery of the Blues".

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