John Williams returns to Vienna! March 12/13 2022

[Biodome 714]

43 minutes ago, AlexanderB said:

I totally agree with you but in my opinion and I can only hope that I speak for all of us here; this classic "fan-mobbed" situation is something we don’t want for John Williams. This is something that could happen very well if he would go through a Star Wars convention or so but I guess middle age people like the guy on the video that do have the Information that he will be at this certain entrance of this exact hotel in that time even though this concert was close to not advertised at all... these 10 people are most likely the ones John Williams REALLY want to surround himself.

I wish I had knew that it is possible to see him for a second after the concert 😄

If he is an actual fan, he's quite an oblivious and egotistical one. Firstly, he could've read the room and taken cue from the other fans around the entrance, who were thanking and applauding John Williams without intruding on his personal space. That was the appropriate thing to do. It also doesn't take a lot of research to know that John Williams hasn't signed stuff in years, and that he is generally surrounded by bodyguards for a reason. When a star is willing to sign something, they will show it clearly. John Williams was heading straight for the door, like he did during the concert in Berlin. Charging into him with a pen and paper isn't gonna end well. I don't have much sympathy for the justification that he was just a massive fan and really wanted an autograph. To me, John Williams is also a godlike legend. I can't stop enjoying his music, I can't stop buying the CDs/LPs/Blu-Rays, I can't stop talking about him to my friends, I've participated in this community for years, I've done four podcast episodes about his scores, and I've been to 7 concerts where John was conducting, sacrificing my time and finances to such a degree that nothing else in my life even comes close to that. I could sell my soul for an autograph or even a wink from John Williams. But that doesn't give me a right to barge into his personal space. If you're truly a fan, that also means you treat your object of fandom as a human that deserves respect more than anyone else in the world. Autographs are a mutual activity that demand consent from both parties. As a fan, one should have some self-control, know what's appropriate in a given moment, and know the lines that you're not supposed to cross. When a fan cannot behave like a proper fan, then one shouldn't be surprised that people will treat them like any one of those obnoxious autograph hunters.

[AlexanderB 3]

34 minutes ago, Biodome said:

If he is an actual fan, he's quite an oblivious and egotistical one. Firstly, he could've read the room and taken cue from the other fans around the entrance, who were thanking and applauding John Williams without intruding on his personal space. That was the appropriate thing to do. It also doesn't take a lot of research to know that John Williams hasn't signed stuff in years, and that he is generally surrounded by bodyguards for a reason. When a star is willing to sign something, they will show it clearly. John Williams was heading straight for the door, like he did during the concert in Berlin. Charging into him with a pen and paper isn't gonna end well. I don't have much sympathy for the justification that he was just a massive fan and really wanted an autograph. To me, John Williams is also a godlike legend. I can't stop enjoying his music, I can't stop buying the CDs/LPs/Blu-Rays, I can't stop talking about him to my friends, I've participated in this community for years, I've done four podcast episodes about his scores, and I've been to 7 concerts where John was conducting, sacrificing my time and finances to such a degree that nothing else in my life even comes close to that. I could sell my soul for an autograph or even a wink from John Williams. But that doesn't give me a right to barge into his personal space. If you're truly a fan, that also means you treat your object of fandom as a human that deserves respect more than anyone else in the world. Autographs are a mutual activity that demand consent from both parties. As a fan, one should have some self-control, know what's appropriate in a given moment, and know the lines that you're not supposed to cross. When a fan cannot behave like a proper fan, then one shouldn't be surprised that people will treat them like any one of those obnoxious autograph hunters.

First of all it’s astonishing that you are so in love with his music like the most here in this forum. But that you had the chance to see him so often, that is really a story to tell ! John Williams is my mental ally since I’m 7 years old and the reason why I want to study composition. Our love here on this platform is more than great. 
Please don’t get me wrong here. As I said in my humble opinion BOTH parties acted too harsh. Yes I do think that his guard acting with an intensity that his phone was breaking is to hard. And No I myself would never dare to sneak behind John Williams and tap him from behind because of course that can look very wrong. I am only saying that John Williams appears like a man that really understand his thing and this goes hand in hand with a very low ego (in the best possible way obviously). Equal to Herbert von Karajan back in the day, he was treated like a Star around his concerts but after his death his wife in an interview once said that one of his favorite memories always was talking to fans after the concerts for many minutes. And I do also speak as a guy that traveled around the globe 2 times (only so far 😄) to see John Williams for 2 hours and I hope and guess that I am right because John Williams proofed my theory when I saw him shaking hands and fist-dropping fans in the first row. 

We shouldn’t forget; he didn’t had to... 
I only have the fear that some people don’t know how to treat him other than just "a Star"

 

PS: yes you Are Right, he hasn’t signed in this kind of environment for a long time but I’m not sure if he doesn’t like it or if he thinks the people don’t really want him to. In Ennio Morricones Book „Life notes“ John Williams is mentioned as one of his best friends and Ennio Morricone was the one saying that he thinks nobody would come to his concert and he don’t want to annoy fans by stoping for autographs. The Ego thing is not to underestimate 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,970]

48 minutes ago, Biodome said:

If he is an actual fan, he's quite an oblivious and egotistical one.

 

Yeah, like those who bought tickets to both concerts...

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

1 hour ago, Biodome said:

(The truth)

 

This right there.

 

57 minutes ago, AlexanderB said:

But

 

You keep responding with "Yes, but…"s. Yes, Williams clearly enjoys meeting his fans *in concert*. The fist bumps on Saturday show just how much (and as far as I know, they were a first). He also clearly does not enjoy being bothered by them outside the concerts. That's why he has bodyguards. That's why he exits the Hotel Imperial through the main entrance to enter a car that drives him just around the hotel and straight into the Musikverein, while as I'm told *all * other major artists just exit the hotel through the rear entrance and walk the couple of metres across the street into the Musikverein. He also sends clear instructions to the hotel stuff ahead of his visit that they are not to accept any letters or items for him.

 

If you've followed the reports of Williams's concerts over the years, you should know the relevant factors. He did use to sign stuff for fans before the concerts, at least up to the mid-2000s in Boston. He obviously stopped doing that, for a variety of reasons. One is that he is old and has to conserve his energy, and is clearly tired after a lengthy concert - so much so that in Berlin, he only waved a brief goodbye at the end and left, while the audience kept applauding for 15 minutes straight. Look at him walking in that video - I'll be happy if I can walk that well at 90, but it's also clear that after standing and conducting for two and a half hours, he has to sit down and wants to get back to the hotel as quickly as possible. Another factor are aggressive fans - there's the famous story of some guy trying to chase his car for an autograph in Boston (if I recall correctly, that more or less coincides with Williams stopping to give autographs, and upping his security). There's the guy in Berlin who rushed to him and tried to get an autograph while he was leaving the stage (and carefully walking down the podium steps because he was exhausted), when the guards didn't pay attention for just one second. There's the guy in the video above who just proves why all the security is necessary.

 

The chief bodyguard in Vienna was the same as in Berlin. Those who have been attending Williams's concerts for longer could tell if he's had the same guy for longer than that, but I expect he has. This is clearly not a case of security personnel being over-protective of an artist who doesn't know how popular he is or who is stopped from interacting as much with his fans as he would like (unlike Horner at the Hollywood in Vienna symposium, who clearly enjoyed the crowds and tried to stick around for autographs as long as possible, but was ushered out by the organisers who wanted to get him to the next gala or something). This is Williams having experienced the good and the bad sides of fan crowds and hiring security because he doesn't want to be bothered outside of his concerts.

[Biodome 714]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, like those who bought tickets to both concerts...

Can't afford to miss any of them flubs.

[Jurassic Shark 12,970]

I'm sure they were perfectly preserved.

[Biodome 714]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm sure they were perfectly preserved.

 

I'm not taking any chances. Preserved or not, I'll be cherishing that botched Leia's theme horn solo until the day I die.

[Davis 2,795]

It's interesting that no one has mentioned one of the most important factors why John Williams didn't stop in the street to sign autographs for his fans, at least this time: there's a pandemic going on. He wasn't wearing a mask and definitely didn't want to risk getting infected while signing autographs in the cold a few cms from people who might have Covid. All the other reasons have already been mentioned. What that man did was completely unacceptable, although let's be honest, on some level one can understand why he did what he did and had the Maestro signed an autograph for him, all the people standing around would have been jealous of him and wondered why they weren't bold enough to do the same thing. I myself would never stand in a crowd and stick a photo in his face for him to sign it, I have much greater respect for John Williams. Under these special circumstances in a pandemic, especially knowing that there are bodyguards creating a perimeter for him to enter the hotel I would never even think about approaching him like how that strange person did. Having his phone broken in half was the least he deserved. He is a fan. I'm an admirer of John Williams' art. One can and should celebrate an artist's art with dignity and humility, and, as someone has put it so well, never cross a certain line, not only because that means disrespecting the private space of the object of our affection, but because of our own dignity as well. 

And one other thing: these bodyguards were doing their job very badly. This should never have happened. What if the man had a knife or a gun or even Covid?

[AlexanderB 3]

Well to end the topic I maybe started without wanting to lay a fire here (😄) 

Maybe we can all agree on the fact that hitting the guy so hard he dropped all his stuff was as unnecessary as approaching John Williams the way he did. The thing I often take from classical concerts (sadly) is that it gets more and more unattractive for younger people to join. In my case I’m 24 and an amateure bodybuilder. It happens so often that people in classical concerts giving me very unhappy looks there was one concert where I was even asked what I would think this concert is. Because of this very clear Trent I love it that John Williams is so, so near to his fans. All the mentioned points of everyone here are right and at his age he truly experienced the good and the bad. I just like to think of my idol as a man full of joy and love for the nexus that connects all of as wich is his music and not as an old grumpy man that is totally different when he’s leaving the stage. 
these are extreme situations and as long as we care about fans getting their autographs and John Williams Being well I guess we can consider us as a attractive community 😄

Maybe one day we will have luck and he will sell signed records or books like Ennio morricone did on his concerts 🎼😊

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

32 minutes ago, JTW said:

And one other thing: these bodyguards were doing their job very badly. This should never have happened. What if the man had a knife or a gun or even Covid?

 

I don't think they're *those* kind of bodyguards. They were hired to protect Williams from obnoxious fans, but probably not to actually protect his life from someone with a weapon (or a virus).

[Davis 2,795]

3 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I don't think they're *those* kind of bodyguards. They were hired to protect Williams from obnoxious fans, but probably not to actually protect his life from someone with a weapon (or a virus).

I don't know what kind of bodyguards they were, but clearly they failed even at that, so they were *bad* bodyguards. 

[WilliamsStarShip2282 318]

I've mentioned this before. I too am a die hard fan and have spend huge amounts of money on shows without even thinking about it. When he was still conducting in Boston and Tanglewood regularly every year (or nearly) I would go to every single show.

 

I've mentioned this before every once in a while. I think no matter what, there are fans like me, who are probably most of them, who just want to kneel and kiss his feet for three seconds and preserve the speck of dirt on his shoes in a bullet proof class slide. BUT there are ALWAYS fans that are complete shi*t heads (are we allowed to curse here?).

He USED to sign autographs at the interior stage door of Symphony Hall. But I was 8 the last time he did that, and again to speak to his unbelievable character, there were obviously a bunch of older people mobbing him, literally in his face, some people totally nerding out yelling about Star Wars and he got annoyed and politely pushed them out of the way to come spend probably a full minute with little 8 year old me, who had a difficult time formulating words in the presence of a god. Authograph, picture, little conversation, I got everything. He appreciates those who are respectful to him and are nice, and every time I've seen him over the years its the exact same result. Be nice and he'll be really nice to you.

That was the last time he was ever at the stage door as far as I know, that was around 2002. He would then for a while, but not every time, take abut ten minutes or more signing and chatting before he got into his car.

That too stopped when there was some woman who literally tried to push her way through the stage door, so they had him leave through a service entrance and she then followed him still and tried to GET INTO HIS CAR.

There was another time I was standing outside of symphony hall before a show to see his car literally screaming down the road and stop quickly at the artist entrance, with another care screaming by and almost hitting cars in an intersection because they were those scum who harass people for autographs to sell on Ebay and they had followed him from the hotel not to mention most of the people waiting outside were those people, who would wait out there for a long time and by the time the concert was over they would have flooded the street so the fans couldn't even get near. I remember him getting annoyed one time before he figure out they weren't fans. He first got annoyed they wanted multiple things and said very clearly annoyed "no, one each" and then after two people he figured it out and angry waved them off without saying anything and just got in his car.

I never saw him sign again after that, and now he often leaves before people have a chance to leave the hall. But in recently years there are people out there, one particularly nasty older woman who's often there, was screaming at the security guard that JW owes it to his fans to come out and meet and greet and sign stuff.

I really wish I could say I was exaggerating or joking... but that really happened. Regardless of age or covid, I can completely understand why, as a principle, he won't meet with fans anymore.

[Not Mr. Big 4,730]

I personally think the whole situation is hilarious

[BB-8 3,898]

The fandom menace

[pete 950]

4 hours ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said:

I've mentioned this before every once in a while. I think no matter what, there are fans like me, who are probably most of them, who just want to kneel and kiss his feet for three seconds and preserve the speck of dirt on his shoes in a bullet proof class slide. BUT there are ALWAYS fans that are complete shi*t heads (are we allowed to curse here?).

I encountered a few fans that I think were mentally ill. Both at a Williams concert - London 1998, and at an event Jerry Goldsmith spoke at I think the year before. The Goldsmith event had adults clamoring over each other to get autographs, and at the open rehearsal for the Williams concert, some morons kept clapping as though they were at a concert. It was just embarassing being in their presence. Eventually Williams turned around and said "We're trying to work here", which was his way of saying STFU.

[WilliamsStarShip2282 318]

Was anybody here at the Tom Stoppard talk at Tanglewood in 2019? Thats when the learning center opened and they had several special events, including one with Williams and David Newman which was VERY tame I think because a maybe 30 tickets were quietly sold and everyone was probably drooling over themselves.

But the Tom Stoppard one, which presumable was supposed to have Andre Previn there as well, unfortunately he died a few months before. I guess Stoppard had written some politically storied plays, like a 1984 type thing (i'm unfamiliar) and some woman went off basically to the point of nearly having an all out protest against Trump in the middle of the thing and wouldn't stop harassing him. She first asked a question he said he didn't want to really answer and she wouldn't stop and it got to the point of people in the audience telling her to shut up and nearly being asked to leave.

[Nemesis 254]

Some impressions from "Goldener Saal" at the Musikverein after sunday's concert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

12 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Some impressions from "Goldener Saal" at the Musikverein after sunday's concert.

 

There's me just standing there in a black mask at 0:14+.  

[Miguel Andrade 1,343]

14 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

There's me just standing there in a black mask at 0:14+.  

 

And me in a white mask around 0:20 chatting

[OMATRES 14]

Hello,

 

On Sunday, I saw how the technician picked up a very large tape.

Saturday after the concert.  The bodyguard warned in a polite manner and with a sense of humor of how the Maestro's departure was going to take place.  Everyone understood. There was no problem and people hummed Raiders  

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,933]

Hmm that car cad a big red dot in the windshield. Williams doesnt care about the environment... 

 

😅

 

Btw that car is allowed to circulate in The center of vienna? 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,474]

4 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Btw that car is allowed to circulate in The center of vienna? 

There's John Fricking Williams in it. Of course it is! It's even allowed to drive inside the Musikverein

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

6 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Hmm that car cad a big red dot in the windshield. Williams doesnt care about the environment... 

 

What does the red dot mean?

 

6 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Btw that car is allowed to circulate in The center of vienna? 

 

At least it's no SUV.

[BB-8 3,898]

That car (from Germany) also shows a green badge with a large 4 which is related to fine particle emission.

 

 

"The environmental badge was introduced on March 1st, 2007 and has been mandatory for all cars, trucks and buses in the German environmental zones since January 1st, 2008. Depending on the EURO class, the particulate matter sticker was divided into 3 different colours, red, yellow and green. The rules of the now more than 80 zones have been tightened step by step, so that in almost all German cities only entry with the green environmental sticker is allowed."

 

Google-translated German text from Umwelt-Plakette.de – Green-Zones.eu

 

The red badge shows no writing and remains a mystery.

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,933]

Oh was mistaken, i thought the red sticker was the same kind as the green one.

 

Then i dont know what it is.

 

So Williams is environment friendly after all!

[Biodome 714]

2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

So Williams is environment friendly after all!

Only if you disregard the fact that he flew to Vienna in a plane.

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

2 hours ago, Biodome said:

Only if you disregard the fact that he flew to Vienna in a plane.

 

He refused transatlantic flights for 20 years, so his carbon footprint in that regard is probably still better than the average European's.

[Jurassic Shark 12,970]

The older he gets, the greater his carbon footprint.

[eitam 368]

30 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

He refused transatlantic flights for 20 years, so his carbon footprint in that regard is probably still better than the average European's.

 

I'm far from sure that the average European has traveled to America even once

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

14 minutes ago, eitam said:

I'm far from sure that the average European has traveled to America even once

 

I should probably have said the average (upper) middle class Western/Central European.

[Davis 2,795]

3 hours ago, Biodome said:

Only if you disregard the fact that he flew to Vienna in a plane.

He wanted to come by ship, but he had to be back in LA to record THE FABELMANS in March.

40 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The older he gets, the greater his carbon footprint.

Just like Han Solo. 

[BB-8 3,898]

He could have actually walked. Like the people in Berlin who need to do their jobs very well.

 

8 hours ago, JTW said:

Just like Han Solo. 

But when Han Solo was frozen in carbonite he left no carbon footprint.

 

9 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

The older he gets, the greater his carbon footprint.

Viele carbon footprints written with a Bleistift on paper, ja, ja...

[Jurassic Shark 12,970]

Jawohl...

[Davis 2,795]

6 hours ago, BB-8 said:

He could have actually walked. Like the people in Berlin who need to do their jobs very well.

 

But when Han Solo was frozen in carbonite he left no carbon footprint.

 

Viele carbon footprints written with a Bleistift on paper, ja, ja...

He did when he was defrosted by Leia. 

[BB-8 3,898]

Anne-Sophie Mutter | Facebook

[Davis 2,795]

45 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Anne-Sophie Mutter | Facebook

They look lovely. If the Maestro wasn't married, I think Ms. Mutter would now be called Mrs. Williams. She clearly is attracted to older men. André Previn was three years older than Williams. 

[BB-8 3,898]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

They look lovely. If the Maestro wasn't married, I think Ms. Mutter would now be called Mrs. Williams. She clearly is attracted to older men. André Previn was three years older than Williams. 

 

Yes, I do see a pattern here. But to be faire, composers depend on inspiration. So it may well be seen as a kind of symbiosis rather than the result of a neo-Freudian psycho-sexual abnormality.

 

 

[Davis 2,795]

23 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 

Yes, I do see a pattern here. But to be faire, composers depend on inspiration. So it may well be seen as a kind of symbiosis rather than the result of a neo-Freudian psycho-sexual abnormality.

 

Why would it be an abnormality? There are a lot of women who are attracted to more mature talented, wise, old(er) men, artists. It’s perfectly understandable. I’m sure the relationship between Ms. Mutter and The Maestro is entirely platonic and basically a beautiful friendship/working partnership, but I think were Mr. Williams not married, perhaps it could be more.

Anyway, as I said before, they look lovely together, thanks for sharing the photo.

23 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 

Yes, I do see a pattern here. But to be faire, composers depend on inspiration. So it may well be seen as a kind of symbiosis rather than the result of a neo-Freudian psycho-sexual abnormality.

 

 

Let’s not forget her greatest mentor, Herbert von Karajan. I guess these great composers-conductors were already old when they worked together with Mutter.

And to further strengthen the pattern, ASM’s first husband Detlef Wunderlich was 28 years older than her. So she is definitely attracted to much older and more mature men, which is completely fine, at least by me, but more importantly by her. 

[BB-8 3,898]

3 minutes ago, JTW said:

Why would be abnormality? There are a lot women who are attracted to more mature talented, wise men, artists. It’s perfectly understandable. I’m sure the relationship between Ms. Mutter and The Maestro is entirely platonic and basically a beautiful friendship, but I think were Mr. Williams not married, perhaps it could be more. Anyway, as I said before, they look lovely together, thanks for sharing the photo.

 

I have often wondered whether the mutual attraction among muses and maestros is the driving force of cultural evolution, also explaining why there are significantly more male than female composers. Though it is untimely and potentially sexist to propose this hypothesis.

 

Let us now discuss what whine they were drinking in the Imperial Bar.

 

Rosé or Blanc de Noirs?

[Davis 2,795]

18 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 

I have often wondered whether the mutual attraction among muses and maestros is the driving force of cultural evolution, also explaining why there are significantly more male than female composers. Though it is untimely and potentially sexist to propose this hypothesis.

 

Let us now discuss what whine they were drinking in the Imperial Bar.

 

Rosé or Blanc de Noirs?

As a Hungarian I would say Tokaji. 

Wasn’t this photo taken at the Musikverein after the Saturday concert?

[BB-8 3,898]

16 minutes ago, JTW said:

As a Hungarian I would say Tokaji. 

Wasn’t this photo taken at the Musikverein after the Saturday concert?

 

JW entered Café Imperial after the Saturday concert.... Not sure if they pored him a whine backstage, though possible as it did take a while until he was driven to the hotel.

[Luke Skywalker 1,933]

I dont know what wine it is but Williams clearly has rosy cheeks😅

[Marian Schedenig 8,934]

46 minutes ago, JTW said:

As a Hungarian I would say Tokaji. 

 

"Er weiß, was sich gehört! Serviert einen alten Tokajer mit einem jungen Madl!"

[BB-8 3,898]

So when will the Strauss Fanfare be replaced by the Williams Fanfare?

 

[Davis 2,795]

58 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 

JW entered Café Imperial after the Saturday concert.... Not sure if they pored him a whine backstage, though possible as it did take a while until he was driven to the hotel.

Maybe they held a small reception (after party, hehe) after the concert. Beautiful glasses, too.

[Chewy 2,496]

So Deutsche Grammophon will release "Fawkes the Phoenix" as a single tomorrow (november 11): https://music.apple.com/nz/album/fawkes-the-phoenix-from-harry-potter-and-the/1652091889

 

Seems like this 2022 Vienna concert will be released too  !

 

 

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,933]

Nice!

[BB-8 3,898]

 

 

[Leitmotif 21]

Is this cover from Vienna 2022? 

[Jay 39,241]

Would DG use an image from a different concert for this?