New article in The New York Times on John Williams - says he will soon step away from film projects

[bruce marshall 1,315]

It's weird, but I've never had any interest at all in film music concerts or recordings of suites with orchestras like the Pops.

Wish I did but....

[BB-8 3,473]

On 09/02/2022 at 6:41 PM, lairdo said:

 

I am guessing this is an early model for the Copland bust Williams donated to Tanglewood which sits in the garden area where Copland's ashes were spread after he passed away. Williams donated the bust by artist Penelope Jencks in 2011. At the time of the linked article below, it was already announced that statues of Leonard Bernstein and Serge Koussevitzky would follow. And these indeed have happened in the intervening decade.

 

https://www.timesunion.com/entertainment/article/Fellow-composer-gives-Copland-bust-to-Tanglewood-2134376.php

 

Having seen all three pieces at Tanglewood, the Copland is the most moving giving its setting. Bernstein's bust is in Highwood House next to the restaurant there. Serge's is at the gates of Tanglewood which is a great place for it (as he founded Tanglewood when leader of the Boston Symphony), but on concert days, it's very busy. The Copland setting is very serene. All three pieces are great.

 

 

 

[Richard Penna 3,686]

14 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

It's weird, but I've never had any interest at all in film music concerts or recordings of suites with orchestras like the Pops.

Wish I did but....

 

I rarely have interest in concerts or re-recordings (unless I'm there in person) as they're usually just inferior recordings of the original. I don't have many Prague interpretations for this reason.

[eitam 364]

So Williams is stepping away from film projects... and restarting his career in TV ? 

[crumbs 14,306]

We found a loophole in his plan!

 

Next minute, Spielberg announces all his future projects will be 12-part miniseries on Apple TV.

[Fabulin 3,511]

What do you mean 'an episode directred by Giacchino'?

[King Mark 3,631]

I never really cared much for his concertos but my dream is that he writes somekind of symphonic suites to some of his film music, of course writing  brand new music and new arrangements of existing themes

 

The Star Wars Symphony

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Prediction: The Fablemans will be the final film Williams scores, and he will win the Oscar for it.

[mrbellamy 6,283]

What do you predict happens to Indiana Jones 5?

[Steve 591]

6 hours ago, King Mark said:

I never really cared much for his concertos but my dream is that he writes somekind of symphonic suites to some of his film music, of course writing  brand new music and new arrangements of existing themes

 

The Star Wars Symphony

That would be incredible. I thought about that in past too. Star Wars surely would be the most fitting for that.

[crumbs 14,306]

1 hour ago, Bryant Burnette said:

Prediction: The Fablemans will be the final film Williams scores, and he will win the Oscar for it.

 

Geez, that's a slightly grim prediction, given the implications.

[GerateWohl 4,357]

I would love to hear a symphony of John Williams.

But please not patched together from his filmworks, and certainly not Star Wars.

Half of the fans would complain, because he left out their favourite parts, the other half would say, it does not do justice to the original material.

 

There is enough original material in Star Wars to work with. Williams does not have to write anything more. This plugging together could be done by someone else. Let William Ross put together Star Wars Symphony and take the blame.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

A symphony would require development of the material that is selected, so it would be interesting to hear how JW would approach that.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

How about a piano concerto based on " Over the Moon"

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

Or he could just record his E.T. suite.

[BB-8 3,473]

3 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

Prediction: The Fablemans will be the final film Williams scores, and he will win the Oscar for it.

 

The Life-time Oscar is overdue.

[mrbellamy 6,283]

They rarely give them to previous winners. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

He's already been offered it once.

[mrbellamy 6,283]

Has he?

 

He should have a Walk of Fame star for sure. 

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

I would love to hear a symphony of John Williams.

But please not patched together from his filmworks, and certainly not Star Wars.

Half of the fans would complain, because he left out their favourite parts, the other half would say, it does not do justice to the original material.

 

There is enough original material in Star Wars to work with. Williams does not have to write anything more. This plugging together could be done by someone else. Let William Ross put together Star Wars Symphony and take the blame.

I honestly can’t see him ever doing this. I doubt he has the interest to try and retool existing material into a new form like that. It’s one thing doing a rearrangement of a five minute concert arrangement of Across the Stars (or whatever) but a whole other thing to turn it into a symphony. He seems much more interested in writing new concert material and letting his film music speak for itself using existing or slightly updated versions of the concert arrangements he already wrote at the time.

 

I kinda like the idea of someone writing a symphony based on one or other franchise but film themes are generally quite a different style of writing to a pure concert work. For my money they would work better as tone poems that tell the story rather than abstract symphonic works. One (other!) reason why JW is such a master, very few composers have written so many scores where you can essentially relive the film in your head as you listen to the music. Hence why I actually find his tendency to mix up the chronology of some of his scores so much when he puts them on disc. Especially things like that Star Wars scores where the musical storytelling is utterly compelling when sequenced in order!

[GerateWohl 4,357]

In the interview of Sarah Willis by Maurizio and Tim Maurizio asked her, why she thinks Williams' music is not played more often in the concert hall, and she replied, that it might be difficult to to program that in combination with other orchestral pieces. 

And I think, part of that issue is the duration of those 4 to 10 minutes pieces. If there existed from Williams' scores suites with 20 to 40 minutes runtime, the length of a symphony, they would be easier to integrate into a normal classical program. 

Imagine and evening with Rachmaninow's Symphonic Dances and a 30 minutes suite of E.T. (including the OST version of Adventures on Earth of course)

I would love that.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

There is such an E.T. suite, but JW doesn't seem to have much faith in it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

What I'd really like to see is Williams' concertos more often programmed in that standard "second slot of the first half of a regular subscription concert" at classical concerts

[GerateWohl 4,357]

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

There is such an E.T. suite, but JW doesn't seem to have much faith in it.

He has no reason to not have.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

35 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

He has no reason to not have.

 

He's too modest - the shortened Adventures on Earth suffices.

[BB-8 3,473]

There is Symphony No. 1, dedicated to André Previn. Would love to hear that!

 

John Williams’s Journey into the Concert Hall – The Legacy of John Williams

 

 

And a Sinfonietta for wind.

 

[Thor 7,495]

49 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

There is Symphony No. 1, dedicated to André Previn. Would love to hear that!

 

We all would!

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

In the interview of Sarah Willis by Maurizio and Tim Maurizio asked her, why she thinks Williams' music is not played more often in the concert hall, and she replied, that it might be difficult to to program that in combination with other orchestral pieces. 

And I think, part of that issue is the duration of those 4 to 10 minutes pieces. If there existed from Williams' scores suites with 20 to 40 minutes runtime, the length of a symphony, they would be easier to integrate into a normal classical program. 

 

But for Star Wars (all of them) of all things, these suites do exist.

[GerateWohl 4,357]

38 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

But for Star Wars (all of them) of all things, these suites do exist.

True. But there it is again not a suite in one to three movements but again just a collection of four to six short 3-6 minute pieces.

 

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

4 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

True. But there it is again not a suite in one to three movements but again just a collection of four to six short 3-6 minute pieces.

 

Like The Planets, which pose no problem to concert programming.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

Except that The Planets is one work; they don't have to pick the movements they want to play.

[Jay 37,352]

I think I can settle the debate about whether the original sketches are at JKMS and his binders store copy, vs his binders having the originals and JKMS having copies.

 

Here are three instagram posts by JKMS, which each have a right arrow you can click to see more images:

 

Harry Potter 1: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZugVIWv2xh/

Indiana Jones 3: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZxgMu7PvaD/

ET: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZzuDOzvcfL/

 

You can clearly see that JKMS absolutely has the originals - complete with roughed up edges, scotch tape, rips, folds, creases, tears, etc.

 

Which makes senses, they are paid by the production company that also paid for the score, to facilitate the paperwork needed for the muscians to play what they need to play, so he is delivering his sketches to them to turn into separate lines for each instrument group.

 

So, JW's binders are photocopies.

[Once 605]

41 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think I can settle the debate about whether the original sketches are at JKMS and his binders store copy, vs his binders having the originals and JKMS having copies.

 

Here are three instagram posts by JKMS, which each have a right arrow you can click to see more images:

 

Harry Potter 1: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZugVIWv2xh/

Indiana Jones 3: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZxgMu7PvaD/

ET: https://www.instagram.com/p/CZzuDOzvcfL/

 

You can clearly see that JKMS absolutely has the originals - complete with ripped and folded bits, scotch tape, folds, creases, tears, etc.

 

Which makes senses, they are paid by the production company that also paid for the score, to facilitate the paperwork needed for the muscians to play what they need to play.

 

So, JW's binders are photocopies.

On the Indiana Jones 3-post you just linked to someone asked;

Quote

Do you keep photocopies or true original handwritten sketches? There was an article on the NYT the other day that showed Mr. Williams’ shelves at his home with bound volumes of his sketches at his home.

and the account (jkmsmusic) responded;

Quote

JW keeps his original sketches! Our library typically has scans of his sketches (typically written in pencil), original scores and original parts.

 

[Jay 37,352]

Huh, that completely contradicts the pictures shown; That one Indiana Jones one has a huge scotch tape section.

 

Unless.... it's a photocopy scotch-taped to a photocopy?  Maybe that would explain everything... maybe JW's handwritten originals never leave his house, and only photocopies get sent to JKMS?

[Once 605]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Huh, that completely contradicts the pictures shown; That one Indiana Jones one has a huge scotch tape section.

 

Unless.... it's a photocopy scotch-taped to a photocopy?  Maybe that would explain everything... maybe JW's handwritten originals never leave his house, and only photocopies get sent to JKMS?

I agree with you that they look like the original sketches in their photos and not copies!

[Jay 37,352]

Maybe the person running the JKMS instagram account was wrong?

[Coco314 16]

On 09/02/2022 at 11:48 AM, bruce marshall said:

I guess part of the reason is

1. Spielberg isn't directing

2. The last INDY score was a real letdown.

 

But, maybe we will be surprised.

Both points are true for sure, but for both of them the counter argument could be "yeah, sure, but the last movie sucked".

Coming back to "Indy IV", it sure was a letdown compared not only to the previous Indy scores (which could have been expected), but also compared to all those great 2000 scores until then. "The Adventure of Mutt" was say... not a highlight. But if "Indy V" has at least its "Antz!" track, I'll be happy

[GerateWohl 4,357]

The Indy 4 score is great. Just the OST is not the best possible presentation of the score.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I freakin’ love Adventures of Mutt!

[Bespin 8,480]

3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

The Indy 4 score is great. Just the OST is not the best possible presentation of the score.

 

Already in a more chronological way (and the Suites at the end), the listening experience of the OST is better than the way it was presented on the CD.
 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Many fans didn't think INDY IV " sucked"

 

Most fans enjoyed it.

Only the cranks on forums like this and FSM didn't like it.

😎

[michael_grig 472]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Maybe the person running the JKMS instagram account was wrong?

The Instagram account is personally managed by Mark Graham.

[Tom 4,654]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I freakin’ love Adventures of Mutt!

It is an excellent, fun piece.  I remain convinced that the majority of those who do not like it dislike it because they think it is either a) not suitable to the character or b)they hate the character.  In my JW fan world, a piece is good on its own intrinsic merits first and, if it fits a character, more power to it, but it does not undermine the musical merits of the piece.  If the character is not good, then more power to Williams for crafting a great piece from a less than great character.  

[BrotherSound 2,242]

4 hours ago, Tom said:

In my JW fan world, a piece is good on its own intrinsic merits first and, if it fits a character, more power to it, but it does not undermine the musical merits of the piece.  If the character is not good, then more power to Williams for crafting a great piece from a less than great character.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that:
 

1. I’ve almost completely forgotten the film Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull*.

 

and

 

2. I’m apparently one of the score’s biggest fans.

 

* my summary, from what I still remember from seeing it once in 2008:

 

”Groundhogs. The warehouse from the end of Raiders. Nuke the fridge. The college from Raiders. Russians. Aliens, but they’re not aliens, I think? Marryin’ Marian. The end.”

[Bryant Burnette 654]

On 11/02/2022 at 1:18 AM, mrbellamy said:

What do you predict happens to Indiana Jones 5?

 

I literally forgot that was even happening!    Might be a slight flaw in my thinking there...

[bruce marshall 1,315]

" Mutt " was a rehash of previous theme.

But, admittedly , I'm not a fan of JW in classical mode.

[DrTenma 116]

Wow... I can understand Williams but is a sad news. I hope this is similar to the situation after Schindler's List when he retired. But, indeed, he's 90 and he should enjoy life doing whatever he wants.

[GerateWohl 4,357]

31 minutes ago, DrTenma said:

Wow... I can understand Williams but is a sad news.

If this is sad news for you, I conclude you are planning to stay in your day job until you are 100?

 

Sorry for kidding. But for me this is great news in every possible way. This 90 year old fellow plans to continue making music! Writing. Conducting. I mean, how good could it get?

After all the rumours and stories how this worked in ithe production of Rise of Skywalker and how much he had to work for the trash can, I think, it is also much more valuable for us fans to get more of his concert works rather than another score.

[mrbellamy 6,283]

I freely admit that while I appreciate his concert works and particularly love a handful, I always get most excited about a soundtrack. Of course I do. But I am genuinely anticipating a piano concerto. And I'm just grateful that he can end his film career on his own terms if he wants, that's a blessing. Fabelmans and Indy 5 are appropriate things to leave it on even if he lives to 100, although I hope Spielberg doesn't do anything that cool in the meantime lol. It's also always a little nerve-wracking to think of something being left unfinished. I still can't believe a third Star Wars trilogy by John Williams is already ancient history. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

10 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

It's also always a little nerve-wracking to think of something being left unfinished

 

A thought I hadn't admitted to until now: when the article mentioned that he was recording Fabelmans next month I couldn't help but think "oh thank goodness that means he's probably finished or just about finished writing the score so if the worst happens, they can still record the music he wrote"