New article in The New York Times on John Williams - says he will soon step away from film projects

[eitam 364]

Quote

Inside his studio on the back lot of Universal Studios Hollywood, Williams is surrounded by mementos: a miniature bust of Beethoven, vintage movie posters chosen by Spielberg

 

Such a sweet personal touch 

 

[mrbellamy 6,286]

I am fully ready to believe that he's hanging up the film business. Indiana Jones 5 and Fabelmans have a "tying up loose ends" quality that I think similarly appealed to him about finishing Star Wars, but that quote "six months of life at my age is a long time" rings so true.

 

I think Spielberg could convince him that a 30th score would be a meaningful "loose end" but I also think it would depend on the project. It makes sense for Williams to consider Fabelmans a fine thing to end on. If Spielberg does another popcorn movie, I think Williams passes. If he does something that just needs 45 minutes or less with a modest ensemble, I'm more ready to think that could happen again. Maybe Spielberg feels inspired to make his No Country for Old Men and John Williams does the end credits. Maybe Spielberg gets him to do a jazzy source cue for some scene. That'd be a welcome cameo.

 

But I don't want to set myself up for disappointment, waiting for every Spielberg project and just hoping we get that announcement. I'm tired of that honestly. If he's still out there traveling the world and enjoying himself, writing other music and even getting up on the podium for a piece or two, let alone an entire concert or half-concert, that would be more than enough to make me happy as a JWFan. He's 90 y'all, what a thing. Happy Birthday, sir, and thank you.

 

The Fabelmans and Indiana Jones 5!!!!!!!! Let's do it.

[Tom 4,658]

Upon reflection, it would be nice to have Williams leave the business on this own terms and schedule.  It is easy to loose sight of the fact that he is 90.  Literally 84% of men do not reach that age, and of those that do, most are not able to be as productive as Williams.  

 

Him saying that he will give up films to focus on concert music (at 90) strikes me as very funny, but I am not sure why--like the dude is trolling us somehow.  

[igger6 894]

5 hours ago, Aliandra said:

 

Azkaban is misspelled!  All respect lost.  Now I'm a Zimmer man.

[Falstaft 2,132]

1 hour ago, pete said:

 

Those children were murdered? Oh my god.. I always thought they died in a car accident. 

 

Yeah, the context for this piece is really horrific; no wonder it's not spelled out in the liner notes. Not for the faint of heart: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-02-24-me-31943-story.html

[din_zav 22]

I am so happy he is planning to focus on concert works! 

 

Violin Concert No.2 touched me so much my soul was closed for reconstruction and I was not able to compose my own tunes for a while, still processing. One of the greatest piece of music ever for me. 

 

Let's be honest, Hollywood nowadays can not produce films worthy and inspirational enough. Fabelmans - well, maybe it would make a decent farewell, but Indiana 5 as well as SW 789 are just greedy overuses of too long franchises and they are far beneath his true level, it is a miracle he is still able to impress with such a poor material. 

 

It is so good he decided not to waste time trying to save such popcorn bublegum anymore and dedicate his precious time to creating genuine masterpieces without limitations. 

6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I should also note that there is a well-worn copy of Walter Piston's text on orchestration sitting out on the shelf (Piston is another of my 5 favorite composers of all time along with Copland and Williams)  

Thank you so much for the insights! It is really helpful. 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

The Fabelmans and Indiana Jones 5!!!!!!!! Let's do it.

 

[Tom 4,658]

5 minutes ago, din_zav said:

Let's be honest, Hollywood nowadays can not produce films worthy and inspirational enough. Fablemans - well, maybe it would make a decent farewell, but Indiana 5 as well as SW 789 are just greedy overuses of too long franchises and they are far beneath his true level, it is a miracle he is still able to impress with such a poor material. 

 

There are exceptions.  A Spielberg film is one of them.  While he has not knocked one out of the park in recent years, they are always solid and have transcending moments--including (since we are on the topic) BFG.  I rewatched the movie recently, the dream country sequences are marvelous, both visually and musically.  

[crumbs 14,315]

Quote

Tired of the constraints of film — the deadlines, the need for brevity, the competition with ever-blaring sound effects, the work eating up half a year — he says he will soon step away from movie projects.

 

Gee, can't imagine what film he's referring to here...

 

Thanks for destroying JW's interest in scoring modern films, JJ.

[din_zav 22]

Must be one of the humanity's finest moments

 

"

Williams recalled a recent pilgrimage to St. Thomas Church in Leipzig, Germany, where Bach once worked as a cantor. He listened intently as a pastor described the efforts to protect the great composer’s remains during World War II; he marveled at the dedication to preserving Bach’s legacy.

On his way out of the church, he paused. An organist was filling the grand space with the hymn-like theme from “Jurassic Park.”

Williams, beaming, turned to the pastor.

“Now,” he said, “I can die.”

"

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

5 minutes ago, crypto said:

 

 

 

Thanks for destroying JW's interest in scoring modern films, JJ.

 

I know this was meant as a joke but I really do wonder if the butchering of Ep9 killed his interest in film music forever.

 

I hope Magnold does not trouble him too much on Indy 5.

 

Speilberg is a more disciplined director and does not keep editing his films till a few seconds before the world premiere. 

[Fabulin 3,511]

24 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

[Tom 4,658]

5 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

I know this was meant as a joke but I really do wonder if the butchering of Ep9 killed his interest in film music forever.

 

I hope Magnold does not trouble him too much on Indy 5.

 

Speilberg is a more disciplined director and does not keep editing his films till a few seconds before the world premiere. 

Based on early reports, it seems that Williams did not want to score IX precisely because of Abrams, but since his SW legacy was a stake, he did it.  I am sure it infuriated him.  However, I think Spielberg and hopefully Mangold know how to make a movie, and he knows that.  In this case, I take him at this word, if you know that the rest of your life is just a handful of years, 6 months for a movie is a huge commitment in terms of any musical goals you hope to accomplish.  

[crumbs 14,315]

So yeah, this is totally one of Mike's burned CD-Rs for JW to approve, isn't it?

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the text at the bottom says Disc 1 of 2. Text at the top appears to be 3 words?

 

Ahhh, the life of a JWFan...

[Alex 2,835]

“John Williams, the storied Hollywood composer and conductor, found himself, for the first time in his nearly seven-decade career, without a movie to worry about.”

 

 

[artguy360 1,843]

I love that JW is going to dedicate more time to his concert works. Following his development of his concert stuff over the years has been one of the richest experiences I've had as a JW fan.

[KK 3,307]

What an absolutely fantastic piece. So refreshingly candid and honest compared to the usual puff stuff.

 

This is also the first time I've seen him so explicitly and brazenly express his fatigue with film, which is completely understandable. In fact, I wish The Fablemans was his last film outing. Don't care too much for the Indiana Jones flick.

 

I look forward to hearing more of his concert output, where clearly most of his joy lies in these days.

 

What a class act and gentleman.

[crumbs 14,315]

41 minutes ago, KK said:

This is also the first time I've seen him so explicitly and brazenly express his fatigue with film, which is completely understandable. In fact, I wish The Fablemans was his last film outing. Don't care too much for the Indiana Jones flick.

 

Just listen to them in reverse order and pretend it is

[igger6 894]

I wish Johnny the best on his concert music, and of course he's earned the right a thousand times over to follow his muse wherever she leads him, but I hope he'll keep splitting the difference between films and concert pieces as he has been with pieces like the Mutter film arrangements, the Galaxy's Edge music, and the Overture to the Oscars (and, hopefully, the Vienna processional).  His genius and his legacy lie in accessible, tonal orchestral music.  I can't see anyone arguing against that.  (Let's be honest: whatever its merits, they won't be playing "Markings" at his funeral.) 

 

I would love to see him tackle some more classically programmatic music like a Shakespeare overture—or maybe something along the lines of Patrick Doyle's Impressions of America album.  Imagine his Harry Potter Children's Suite if the film rights had never been sold.

 

Hey for that matter, how about a tone poem based on The Catcher in the Rye?  It's not a straight-up adaptation; the Salinger heirs might go for it!  And if he's back in a Fifties mood, we might get some jazz out of him!

[bruce marshall 1,315]

A new piano concerto?!

Bring it on!

[crumbs 14,315]

 

A few shrinkwrapped copies of LLL's E.T. at the bottom of this CD stack

[bruce marshall 1,315]

2 hours ago, crypto said:

So yeah, this is totally one of Mike's burned CD-Rs for JW to approve, isn't it?

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the text at the bottom says Disc 1 of 2. Text at the top appears to be 3 words?

 

Ahhh, the life of a JWFan...

There are highly sophisticated computer software that can decipher that😙

[Will 2,215]

Really bittersweet to read this piece. Hard to process that we only have a year more of looking forward to new films scored by John Williams...  Really gives one a sense of the passing of time, and that an incredible era of film scoring is nearing its end. Of course we always knew, deep down, that it had to end at some point, but to see it actually spelled out is really tough. For a time it felt almost as if the status quo of occasional new JW scores could just keep going on forever... Now we have been jolted back to reality.

 

On the other hand, I am very glad that JW plans to continue writing music and conducting. I hope to see him conduct one more time before he retires from that, if possible. And I hope Spielberg will be able to convince JW to do a film or two more after The Fabelmans, a possibility the article sort of seems to leave open. Most of all, I'm glad JW will be doing what he believes is most fulfilling for him personally in the final chapter of his career. His lack of desire to continue scoring films is certainly understandable. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I know Williams only does Speilberg/Star Wars/Indy these days in his semi-retirement.

 

I am wondering if he might like the Solo model in the future perhaps? So he is asked to contribute 2-3 themes and 1-2 suites. And that's it. And then another composer runs with them and does the overall score. 

 

I think he might find it attractive. It is no different than writing for concert hall since he would in fact be writing JUST the concert suite.

 

We know most modern composers can't write good themes for shit (even the big name ones) and Williams can do so in his sleep. So this might be a great arrangement. 

 

I am sure this can work almost as an apprenticeship for young upcoming composers who would give their left kidney for a job like this - taking Williams themes and crafting a full score around them. 

[JohnnyD 1,223]

3 hours ago, crypto said:

So yeah, this is totally one of Mike's burned CD-Rs for JW to approve, isn't it?

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the text at the bottom says Disc 1 of 2. Text at the top appears to be 3 words?

 

Ahhh, the life of a JWFan...

 

The Sugarland Express? The Accidental Tourist?

 

I’m just kidding; I don’t know.

[mrbellamy 6,286]

I think it is way, way, way too convenient to make JJ Abrams the scapegoat. I mean for crying out loud.

 

There are Williams quotes going back decades joking about not being able to hear music against sound effects. Obviously it's gotten worse along with all the music editing but I think this has always been a nagging frustration with him like any film composer and in retrospect I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of why he slowed down after 2005 as well, along with the reasons cited about deadlines and the time-consuming nature of the work. I imagine 2002 and 2005 also had their role in slowly killing his interest in the film industry, even though they were legendary years for us.

 

If anything, it seems to me his recent Star Wars experience was a pleasant one. He seemed to appreciate having the longer timeline with breaks. It reminds me of some of the quotes from Richard Linklater about Boyhood and that he wished he could make all his movies like that, because he found it a gift to be able to shoot for a week, edit, go do something else, come back with fresh eyes etc. From what I can tell JW loves the Abrams boy, even though I could allow speculation he found his methods and results exhausting.

 

It also makes me wonder if him not doing Ready Player One, for example, might have had more behind it than just not enough time. I think he at least might have been relieved to have a good excuse to say no to it.

 

And I also just think so much of this is him approaching and turning 90. New decades tend to shed light on certain things. It also seems that through the pandemic, he found he just didn't really miss film scoring too much.

 

6 hours ago, KK said:

In fact, I wish The Fablemans was his last film outing. Don't care too much for the Indiana Jones flick.

 

I never get this mentality from fellow JWFans. I know you're as big of one as anybody. I can't take it seriously that you wish you weren't getting a John Williams score in 2023.

[artguy360 1,843]

6 hours ago, Falstaft said:

 

Yeah, the context for this piece is really horrific; no wonder it's not spelled out in the liner notes. Not for the faint of heart: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-02-24-me-31943-story.html

Wow, this is pretty horrific. I only knew the background for Elegy in vague terms. This makes the piece all the more tragic.

[KK 3,307]

2 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I never get this mentality from fellow JWFans. I know you're as big of one as anybody. I can't take it seriously that you wish you weren't getting a John Williams score in 2023.

 

Well, to be fair, it was more of an off-hand statement not to be taken too seriously

 

But if I were to explain the sentiment, it would be that there's a certain poetry to Williams final film work being with his greatest collaborator, on what sounds like the filmmaker's most personal project since Schinlder's List. Who could ask for a more beautiful farewell letter to this long and fruitful chapter in Williams' career?

 

Whereas the very existence of another Indiana Jones film reeks of more corporate interest to rake in that nostalgia money, and if we're being perfectly honest, probably not something Williams is very creatively interested in. Besides, I think we've been graced with enough Indy music for a lifetime. 

 

But yea, sure I am always down for more Williams. 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Yeah. Another INDY score doesn't excite me.

I would rather a drama

[Holko 9,526]

Imagine it like Abbey Road and Let It Be.

[mrbellamy 6,286]

I would add that I also literally posted "Fuck Indy 5, who needs it" on here before Williams was announced  so I'm hypocritical.

 

I can agree that there's something beautiful about Fabelmans as a last score which Indy 5 kinda spoils. It's less meaningful and I think the only reason he's still taking it as his obligation is because Harrison Ford's in it. I think that does mean something to JW and so I hope that sentiment can bear out in the score somewhere.

 

But I was always pretty indifferent myself, in the sense that I wouldn't have been distraught if the movie fell through, or if Williams passed on it. I expected it, actually. Since it's coming, and I don't pretend there was a different film he'd do otherwise, then hell yeah I want it. 

 

And ultimately if he's done then I'm glad he's said it now so that I still have both a drama and action score to look forward to. One Spielberg, one franchise sequel. I really have no complaints about these being the duo.

[blondheim 1,157]

13 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I should also note that there is a well-worn copy of Walter Piston's text on orchestration sitting out on the shelf (Piston is another of my 5 favorite composers of all time along with Copland and Williams)  

 

When I met Howard Shore, I asked him what book an aspiring composer should read and he pointed me towards Walter Piston and the Fundamentals of Harmony.

[lairdo 726]

6 minutes ago, blondheim said:

 

When I met Howard Shore, I asked him what book an aspiring composer should read and he pointed me towards Walter Piston and the Fundamentals of Harmony.

I would also recommend Copland's What to Listen for In Music for those of us not as musically trained. It was written in the 30s, revised in the 50s and then updated a bit in the 90s. Still a good read. You really want to have a Spotify or similar subscription in hand to play some of the examples in the book as you read it. I had hoped the audiobook version might include music, but it doesn't. (Although it is a good listen anyway.)

 

I have on my shelf Howard Hanson's biography, another American composer legend, but have not cracked it open yet.

 

Completely, separately, if you can find copies of John Culshaw's books (famous Decca record producer), they are quite enjoyable, especially about the Solti Wagner Ring cycle with the Vienna PO.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

30 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I can agree that there's something beautiful about Fabelmans as a last score which Indy 5 kinda spoils. It's less meaningful and I think the only reason he's still taking it as his obligation is because Harrison Ford's in it. I think that does mean something to JW and so I hope that sentiment can bear out in the score somewhere.

 

That's a really interesting thought because, honestly, after reading this it makes me all the more surprised that he actually is choosing to do Indy V, but that actually makes some sense. 

[lairdo 726]

Well, how is this? Indy 5 is JW's last franchise movie.

 

Fabelman's is his last completely original movie score? (Can we already call this the frontrunner for the 2022 Original Score Oscar?)

 

So, two last scores. Everyone wins!

 

Until Spielberg makes him do a Michael Jordan and return to films.

 

 

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

That article gave me goosebumps. The article itself is meh, but Williams is literally the GOAT.

[mrbellamy 6,286]

7 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

That's a really interesting thought because, honestly, after reading this it makes me all the more surprised that he actually is choosing to do Indy V, but that actually makes a lot of sense. 

 

I think he loves his actors! They are usually who he writes his themes for, after all, trying to evoke their strengths and personality, like his favorite soloists. We obviously saw how smitten he was with Daisy Ridley, and I think Harrison as Indy would mean something to him. He is the Raiders March. "That damn music follows me everywhere" as Ford said at Williams's AFI.

 

Now, he may wish he was writing something else altogether for the concert hall haha, but I think he must feel like he has some stake in sending him off. I don't know why else he'd be doing it without Spielberg.

[Thor 7,504]

Quote

And he said he does not fear death; he sees life as a dream, at the end of which we awaken.

 

This sentence made me swell up a bit; I imagined it set to the tones of "The Reunion" from A.I.

 

Great piece from the New York Times.

[BB-8 3,478]

Have we already had Stanley & Iris (Varese Sarabande)?

 

What's that DG record on top?

 

[eitam 364]

2 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I can agree that there's something beautiful about Fabelmans as a last score which Indy 5 kinda spoils. 

 

I'm not sure. If they approach the movie as a farewell to Indiana, it could go very nicely with it being JW's last film score. It could get emotional toward the end, though I hope more uplifting than the latest James Bond. Why not another ride into the sunset. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,075]

15 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

Have we already had Stanley & Iris (Varese Sarabande)?

 

What's that DG record on top?

 

 

Can't make it out, and it's so annoying!

 

The one below looks like a release by the label Centaur, which I know has released albums dedicated to Cole Porter.

[Coco314 16]

8 minutes ago, eitam said:

 

I'm not sure. If they approach the movie as a farewell to Indiana, it could go very nicely with it being JW's last film score. It could get emotional toward the end, though I hope more uplifting than the latest James Bond. Why not another ride into the sunset. 

Absolutely. They said it would be the final film (for Ford, at least), one could imagine a terrific farewell cue to both Ford to Indy and Williams to film music. As much as I thought Episode IX was may be the least interesting of all SW scores, I am still excited for the final Indy,  a series whose episodic nature makes more easily room for new thematic material. Come on people, it's this or nothing in term of new film score, let's be excited!

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

38 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

 

 

What's that DG record on top?

 

Guillaume Connesson Pour Sortir au Jour

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

17 minutes ago, Coco314 said:

Absolutely. They said it would be the final film (for Ford, at least), one could imagine a terrific farewell cue to both Ford to Indy and Williams to film music. As much as I thought Episode IX was may be the least interesting of all SW scores, I am still excited for the final Indy,  a series whose episodic nature makes more easily room for new thematic material. Come on people, it's this or nothing in term of new film score, let's be excited!

I guess part of the reason is

1. Spielberg isn't directing

2. The last INDY score was a real letdown.

 

But, maybe we will be surprised.

Look what Ennio came up with on HATEFUL 8!

[crocodile 8,012]

That's a really touching article.

 

Karol

[BB-8 3,478]

12 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

Guillaume Connesson Pour Sortir au Jour

 

Je ne le connai pas.

[TownerFan 4,983]

15 hours ago, Chewy said:

 

 

 

Seeing this picture above brought a huge smile on my face for obvious reasons:

 

[crumbs 14,315]

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

I can agree that there's something beautiful about Fabelmans as a last score which Indy 5 kinda spoils. It's less meaningful and I think the only reason he's still taking it as his obligation is because Harrison Ford's in it. I think that does mean something to JW and so I hope that sentiment can bear out in the score somewhere.

 

10 hours ago, din_zav said:

Indiana 5 as well as SW 789 are just greedy overuses of too long franchises and they are far beneath his true level, it is a miracle he is still able to impress with such a poor material. 

 

I look at it differently.

 

Williams has been stewing on this mindset change for two years, isolating at home with no film scores on his plate.

 

And yet, despite his epiphany, he still met with Mangold to hear him out. He still read the script. And with full knowledge it would be an incredibly tight deadline, even scoring sequences before a final cut was ready, and even after his experience on the Star Wars sequels (which one could interpret as the straw that broke the camel's back), he still agreed to score it.

 

I refuse to believe he returned out of 'obligation.' He's walked away from plenty of franchises despite being courted to return. He could have shook Mangold's hand and recommended another composer, especially if he read the script and thought it wasn't worth his time (which he clearly now values more than ever).

 

Isn't it possible he was so enamored by Mangold's vision that, despite his grievances with the industry, despite knowing it would be a six month commitment at the age of 90, despite delaying his plan to focus on other passions, that the film was simply too good an opportunity to refuse?

 

All things considered, I can't think of a greater vote of confidence in James Mangold.

[BB-8 3,478]

His library doesn't seem to have a specific order. 

 

Mozart

Berlioz

Britten

Elgar

Music in London

[GerateWohl 4,368]

6 minutes ago, crypto said:

 

 

Isn't it possible that he was so enamored by Mangold's vision that, despite his grievances with the state of the industry, despite knowing it would be a six month commitment at the age of 90, despite delaying his plan to exit the industry and focus on other passions, that he simply considered the film too good an opportunity to refuse?

 

All things considered, I actually can't think of a greater vote of confidence in James Mangold.

He scored The Rise of Skywalker. If he would make quality of scripts a precondition for his contribution, how bad does it have to be to not do it?