Krypton and Robin Hood

[Tom 4,633]

I love Kamen's Robin Hood.  It is fun, brilliant, and even inspiring.  Has anyone noticed the similarities to the Planet Krypton cue?  Am I just hearing things?  

 

 

[Jay 37,281]

I don't hear it

 

Maybe if you could provide timestamps of what you're talking about that would help

[artguy360 1,843]

Both pieces have a rhythmic build up to a brassy, heralding sound. But that's about all the similarities I can hear.

 

 

[Andy 4,079]

I love Kamen’s Overture too.   I think it stands far far above anything else in his body of work. It’s that good.   
 

As for similarities to Superman, I’d say there’s more similarity in the oatinato build up in Superman’s Main Title March than the Krypton tonalities. 

[Ludwig 1,120]

I believe he means that the first 3 notes of the melody in the Robin Hood overture are the same notes as the 4th, 5th, and 6th notes of the Krypton theme, which they are in terms of the notes of their relative major keys. After that, Robin Hood seems pretty different to me.

 

But since we're talking about the Krypton theme, it's always struck me how the notes of that theme are precisely the same collection of notes in the five-note "communication" theme in Close Encounters. It's like Williams took one of the dozens of possible combinations he wrote for the latter in 1977, maybe added a few repetitions of notes and voila - Krypton's theme in a film from 1978.

[Tom 4,633]

 

11 hours ago, Ludwig said:

I believe he means that the first 3 notes of the melody in the Robin Hood overture are the same notes as the 4th, 5th, and 6th notes of the Krypton theme, which they are in terms of the notes of their relative major keys. After that, Robin Hood seems pretty different to me.

 

But since we're talking about the Krypton theme, it's always struck me how the notes of that theme are precisely the same collection of notes in the five-note "communication" theme in Close Encounters. It's like Williams took one of the dozens of possible combinations he wrote for the latter in 1977, maybe added a few repetitions of notes and voila - Krypton's theme in a film from 1978.

Yes, that seems right.  Thank you.  That part of Robin Hood sounds like a sped up Krypton to me, which in turn distracts me.  But again, I love the Kamen score, which is far better than the movie for which it was composed.  

[TownerFan 4,983]

12 hours ago, Ludwig said:

But since we're talking about the Krypton theme, it's always struck me how the notes of that theme are precisely the same collection of notes in the five-note "communication" theme in Close Encounters. It's like Williams took one of the dozens of possible combinations he wrote for the latter in 1977, maybe added a few repetitions of notes and voila - Krypton's theme in a film from 1978.

 

Ha, never thought about that, but you're probably right. It also must be noted that the theme is rooted in the I-V-I cadence that forms the basis of the opening of Richard Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (aka "Theme from 2001") which was likely a template here.

[Ludwig 1,120]

28 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

the opening of Richard Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (aka "Theme from 2001") which was likely a template here.

 

Yes, absolutely. And now I think the reason for the resemblance between Krypton and Close Encounters is becoming clearer. Richard Donner recalls about the Krypton theme that:

 

Quote

The only thing I asked John Williams to do musically was to make the Krypton opening sound like 2001: A Space Odyssey. I felt that would give the planet a sense of an ascended society that the audience would make a connection with, maybe subconsciously, so that's why it's a bit like Richard Strauss' Also sprach Zarathustra, a kin of more developed version of that.

 

And in his notes to the 40th anniversary Close Encounters soundtrack release, Mike Matessino notes that:

 

Quote

 . . . 2001: A Space Odyssey, a film Spielberg screened several times during the making of Close Encounters and which he has cited as highly influential on the project.

 

So it seems that the similarity of the two themes may primarily be the result of both being influenced by 2001. And as Close Encounters was so recent when making Superman, there may be an added layer of choosing a collection of notes that perfectly coincides with those of the communication theme.