Jump to content

Nicholas Britell - ANDOR (2022)


Jay
 Share

Recommended Posts

They dont have the guts and are afraid to. They chose the easy way and try to explain themselves with excuses…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because the moment most try mimicking JW, people will just say it's a poor imitation.

Powell worked because his skillset was in a similar enough place to where he could tactfully tackle the sound with his own flair. Everyone else in the franchise either don't have the refined enough chops to make it close to as sophisticated, or their style is so far off that it'd be a bit jarring trying to mesh two disparate sounds.

 

Hell, even with Solo, people got too bothered by the allegedly synthetic percussion "loops," so this definitely is another case of the SW fandom being all "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then the solution is simple, hire people who naturally have the sensibilities to write music that fits in the Star Wars soundscape rather than trying to fit a round peg in a square hole

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, so if it isn't Powell (who we know is selective these days), who would you pick then that'd be enough of a notable name?


JHN probably is a bit too busy elsewhere to do it, William Ross/Conrad Pope lacks the notability, and Joe Kraemer hasn't gotten a notable gig since 2015 to be in consideration. I would personally pick John Ottman, but people have their issues with him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Alright, so if it isn't Powell (who we know is selective these days), who would you pick then that'd be enough of a notable name?


James Newton Howard, he has shown his ability to contribute new music with similar sensibilities to the old music in a franchise that was aurally defined by Williams

 

Parts of Fantastic Beasts were more modern and thus divergent but that’s ultimately the kicker. I can handle divergent sound, what I can’t handle is when the divergent part is the music that actually sounds like it belongs to the franchise which is the issue I’m having with the Obi Wan score right now

 

Ideally I’d rather throw some of the really talented orchestral game composers at it, maybe even some Japanese ones as some of them absolutely knocked it out of the park for Visions, but you limited it to notable names to what I presume is a Western audience. Something that for the record I wish had far less influence on the decision-making than it currently does 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Gibster said:

The music will end up being great cuz Britell is amazing but I can’t fathom to understand why it’s now the cool thing for every composer to run away from the JW star wars sound

 

What is there to fathom? Composers want to create their own sounds and have the score judged based on their own terms. They want to put their stamp on a long running franchise. What is the point of having composers if everyone just emulate one guy?

26 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

Then the solution is simple, hire people who naturally have the sensibilities to write music that fits in the Star Wars soundscape rather than trying to fit a round peg in a square hole

 

Or...just expand the definition of the Star Wars soundscape so we don't have the same style scoring for next 20 movies. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

What is there to fathom? Composers want to create their own sounds and have the score judged based on their own terms. They want to put their stamp on a long running franchise. What is the point of having composers if everyone just emulate one guy?

 

Or...just expand the definition of the Star Wars soundscape so we don't have the same style scoring for next 20 movies. 


I'm not against expanding the soundscape, if anything I think it has narrowed quite a bit considering how experimental Williams could get in A New Hope in particular. However, the expansion I'm seeing with the TV shows is pretty aimless with the only thing in common being 'make it sound more modern' which is a ridiculous goal for a type of sound that was initially chosen for its timelessness. If you expand aimlessly then you lose definition and suddenly what the Star Wars soundscape is becomes very unclear and thus it no longer stands out compared to its contemporaries. That is the absolute last thing I want for some of the most iconic music of all time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:


I'm not against expanding the soundscape, if anything I think it has narrowed quite a bit considering how experimental Williams could get in A New Hope in particular. However, the expansion I'm seeing with the TV shows is pretty aimless with the only thing in common being 'make it sound more modern' which is a ridiculous goal for a type of sound that was initially chosen for its timelessness. If you expand aimlessly then you lose definition and suddenly what the Star Wars soundscape is becomes very unclear and thus it no longer stands out compared to its contemporaries. That is the absolute last thing I want for some of the most iconic music of all time

 

I have the opposite opinion. I think if you don't expand, you will turn an iconic soundscape into mundane. Williams did 9 films in that soundscape. Let his composition be unique and special to that era of Star Wars. Rareness adds intrigue, memorability. Then other composers can expand the definition and do their own soundscapes. Not only will the Star Wars universe be a lot more flavorful, but the discussions will be as well. I don't want spend the next 10 years discussing which composer emulated Williams the best. I want to talk about what they created and how their soundscapes defined the franchise.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

I have the opposite opinion. I think if you don't expand, you will turn an iconic soundscape into mundane. Williams did 9 films in that soundscape. Let his composition be unique and special to that era of Star Wars. Rareness adds intrigue, memorability. Then other composers can expand the definition and do their own soundscapes. Not only will the Star Wars universe be a lot more flavorful, but the discussions will be as well. I don't want spend the next 10 years discussing which composer emulated Williams the best. I want to talk about what they created and how their soundscapes defined the franchise.  


I just don't understand how you're writing Star Wars music if you just re-define the soundscape with every project, and for the record my opinion isn't 'don't expand the soundscape' it's to do it intelligently

I think people really underestimate how versatile an orchestral score can be, there's no need to load it with all these electronic elements in order to achieve a greater flexibility in sound. When I think of my favourite non-Williams Star Wars scores I think about how they're essentially the Star Wars orchestral sound but in different modes

Take Knights of the Old Republic 2 for example, it's moody, dark, atmospheric and intimate but it's still unmistakably Star Wars. It's the Star Wars sound but in a different mode, with a different attitude. It doesn't just dump a bunch of electronic elements into the mix to stand as far apart from the original sound as possible, it uses the tools that already exist in the soundscape in fresh new ways:


EDIT: This is really serendipitous, the composer for the music was in the YT comment section for one of the tracks and elaborates more on his process. This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about:

image.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I don't think these details on the score have already been shared?

 

Quote

"One day, I went to Nic's house, and he played us his theme. I was like, Oh, my God! That's our theme. I called Kathy Kennedy [to say], 'We have a theme,'" Gilroy recalled in the series' production notes. "None of the opening sequences are the same, and each variation is a different orchestration, a completely different interpretation of our theme that Nic has done. There'll be twelve of them in the show. I'm sure people will parse them and figure them out, what he's done. I think they're just absolutely beautiful."

 

"Music in Star Wars is just absolutely essentially identified with John Williams -- I mean, bow down-but we're going in a whole other direction. We needed an entirely new vocabulary. We're making a new visual vocabulary, a storytelling vocabulary; a new casting vocabulary, all these things. We're going to make a new musical vocabulary," the showrunner explained. "Nic Britell was not only available but interested. Nic is just one of the premiere composers of the moment right now. He's just on fire, and he's inspired."

 

https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-andor-music-themes-changes-episodes-tony-gilroy-nicholas-britell/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, SpaceCoyote said:

"None of the opening sequences are the same, and each variation is a different orchestration, a completely different interpretation of our theme that Nic has done. There'll be twelve of them in the show. I'm sure people will parse them and figure them out, what he's done. I think they're just absolutely beautiful."

So, he put great effort into creating the main theme and a completely different interpretation for each episode... And yet almost no one will hear that because, since this is  a streaming show, most people will skip the opening credits.

 

Lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

So, he put great effort into creating the main theme and a completely different interpretation for each episode... And yet almost no one will hear that because, since this is  a streaming show, most people will skip the opening credits.

 

Lol

So basically, the same as overtures/entr' actes/entrance music back in the day, if you show up late, you miss out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said:

What I just don't understand is how they can say that JW defined Star Wars with his music, and then say they won't do it that way for scoring a Star Wars show.

 

I mean yes it's okay, film music is going through a change and should please approach new categories but why can't Star Wars music just stay as it has already been masterfully laid out. There are enough other projects where a different style makes sense, but I personally think Star Wars is rather not one of them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

So, he put great effort into creating the main theme and a completely different interpretation for each episode... And yet almost no one will hear that because, since this is  a streaming show, most people will skip the opening credits.

 

Lol

 

I have never clicked that button in my life, and never talked to anyone in my life who ever has either.


Is this a button you make use of, or anybody you know in real life?

 

 

Because I think it's just people binging dumb shows they've already seen before that click that button, not Star Wars fans watching brand new episodes of Andor or Mando when they drop each week

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife and I have been watching Boy Meets World season 1 (what do you want from me? we were born in the mid-80s!) and it's literally the first time I have ever clicked to skip the opening credits.  It's crazy how long those credits were for season 1, and such an awful theme!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is nothing new, every Mando and Book of Boba Fett title card cue was unique

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stu said:

My wife and I have been watching Boy Meets World season 1 (what do you want from me? we were born in the mid-80s!) 


My wife and I were both born in 72, but for whatever reason, the show was a guilty pleasure for us both when it aired.  We enjoyed it, even though we had no children and were way out of the target demographic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Boy Meets World is a wonderful show. My wife grew up with it and introduced me to it some time in the past decade or so. Sure some elements are dated but it's just so wholesome. I love it.

 

Yavar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have any of the Star Wars shows had a noticeable opening credits? A title card, sure.

 

It cracks me up that there is a "Skip Credits" on these shows.

 

Amazingly there was NOT a skip credits on Good Omens. I think the opening credits for some of those episodes are still running!

 

I generally have a rule that I watch the credits of a show on the first and last episodes of a season. Unless it's Doctor Who or Phineas and Ferb. We never skip those. EVER.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm personally glad they are going in a different musical direction. There's no need to try to imitate JW. I hope the music serves the show well and is interesting to listen to on its own. 

 

I don't have any issue with Kenobi trying to go in a different musical direction. The problem is that the final score is a mismatch of styles and also fairly generic sounding.

 

I applaud any composer trying to leave a distinct mark on SW music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Stu said:

My wife and I have been watching Boy Meets World season 1 (what do you want from me? we were born in the mid-80s!) and it's literally the first time I have ever clicked to skip the opening credits.  It's crazy how long those credits were for season 1, and such an awful theme!

 

 

I love me a good shitty theme song.  I dislike when they're just generic or are just a 10 second royalty-free sounding guitar riff (Community, most modern other sitcoms)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I applaud any composer trying to leave a distinct mark on SW music.

I don't. Why would I? It's a little bit like as if they decided for the Rings of Power series "Yes, Peter Jackson defined the visual style of Lord of the Rings. But we thought, we try something new. That is why we decided that the orks now fight with laser guns and ride motorbikes and the elves war rainbow coats. We are all very excited."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe in this case 'the opening credits) are the end credits. Where with Mando the concept art is shown. I think it's great to hear different versions of the same theme.

Britell is very good in that in his scores for Succession & Cruella

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Michael Grigorowitsch said:

"Music in Star Wars is just absolutely essentially identified with John Williams -- I mean, bow down-but we're going in a whole other direction "

 

What I just don't understand is how they can say that JW defined Star Wars with his music, and then say that they won't do it that way when scoring a Star Wars series.

 

That train has left the station a long time ago, it's just that some fans didn't get the memo. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess if you're not going to do Williams then you actually have to get far pretty away from Williams. Which Mando has done. I don't think Obi-Wan did. Rogue One explicitly did not.

 

Because if you're in the Williams space and you're showing Darth Vader or Stormtroopers or Leia Organa and you're hearing Williams-ish music but not Williams themes then your brain is asking "Why am I not hearing this?" But if you're in a different musical area then maybe you can get away with it.

 

Another thing I suppose I wonder about: Star Wars is not just Williams' themes but just the fact that there ARE themes. Me? I'm a theme guy. To me writing music without themes is like writing dialogue without characters. But that's me. So what kind of structure will this new musical approach have?

 

I suppose the closest example in a movie series is James Bond where one composer and one theme or themes so completely dominates the movie series that it's impossible to imagine the movies without them. (I don't think it's Harry Potter but I might not have a leg to stand on.) How much can you / should you / will you depart from Barry? Sera did it as much as possible without abandoning the Bond theme entirely. Arnold took the Rogue One approach until he started to move away from it ending with Quantum of Solace being pretty much entirely his own thing.

 

The intention is clearly for the Star Wars universe to continue until the sun gets cold. (And I'm OK with that.) So we'll see what they do with the music.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they're trying a throw everything at the wall approach.  Young talent!  *splat* Young talent! *splat*  But nothing is really sticking.  Well, I guess Mando.  But it works there because of the Sergio Leone and Lone Wolf and Cub in space aspect.  For large scale galactic stories, I think the romantic symphonic sound is needed.  Ask Seth MacFarlane who to get, and he'll hook you up.

 

Looking at @Tallguy's avatar, I'm reminded of my youth when some of the first non-Williams SW music was on some of the children's records.  This kind of stuff was simple, but worked just fine for 12 year old me.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, artguy360 said:

The most interesting stuff to come out of the Disney era of Star Wars have been by people doing their own thing with SW ...

Like what? The Mando score? Really? That is for you part of the most interesting stuff, that came out of the Disney era? 

If I cooked for you your favourite meal and asked you, how is it? And you said, it tastes 'interesting' I am quite sure, it's terrible.

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

Because if you're in the Williams space and you're showing Darth Vader or Stormtroopers or Leia Organa and you're hearing Williams-ish music but not Williams themes then your brain is asking "Why am I not hearing this?" But if you're in a different musical area then maybe you can get away with it.

So, you poor guy were totally confused with Giacchino's new imperial theme in Rogue One? For me it worked just fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

So, you poor guy were totally confused with Giacchino's new imperial theme in Rogue One? For me it worked just fine.

 

I wasn't. (I also wasn't confused when JW himself stopped using his Imperial theme in The Empire Strikes Back.) But he used them for Krennic or more generic Imperials. Yes, I mentioned Stormtroopers in my post. Fair enough. But when Tarkin or the Death Star or Vader showed up we heard the original JW themes. And they fit because they lived in the same musical area that Gia was writing in.

 

1 hour ago, Andy said:

I think they're trying a throw everything at the wall approach.  Young talent!  *splat* Young talent! *splat*  But nothing is really sticking.  Well, I guess Mando.  But it works there because of the Sergio Leone and Lone Wolf and Cub in space aspect.  For large scale galactic stories, I think the romantic symphonic sound is needed.  Ask Seth MacFarlane who to get, and he'll hook you up.

 

Looking at @Tallguy's avatar, I'm reminded of my youth when some of the first non-Williams SW music was on some of the children's records.  This kind of stuff was simple, but worked just fine for 12 year old me.

 

Rogue One stuck well enough that we're getting a whole show! :) I don't know, we'll see what people think 10, 20 years from now. Who knew the Prequels would be looked on so fondly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

I wasn't. (I also wasn't confused when JW himself stopped using his Imperial theme in The Empire Strikes Back.) But he used them for Krennic or more generic Imperials. Yes, I mentioned Stormtroopers in my post. Fair enough. But when Tarkin or the Death Star or Vader showed up we heard the original JW themes. And they fit because they lived in the same musical area that Gia was writing in.

In episode 4 there is no Vader's theme when he appears, because it didn't exist yet. I really don't think, that these themes are that important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Rogue One stuck well enough that we're getting a whole show! :) I don't know, we'll see what people think 10, 20 years from now. Who knew the Prequels would be looked on so fondly?


 

Sorry, I meant musically speaking, there seems to also be a “let’s see what young talent can do to redefine or reinvent SW music” (because there’s never going to be the “next JW”)

 

Britell is new to me, so hopefully I’ll find something interesting there.   I really do prefer symphonic music for SW.  Lets hear something rousing, heroic, or inspiring. With sharp, clear orchestration.   Sorry, I can’t quite articulate it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

In episode 4 there is no Vader's theme when he appears, because it didn't exist yet. I really don't think, that these themes are that important.

 

That's funny. I thought the Vader theme was playing over stormtroopers like a minute or less before Vader appears.

 

They're not that important. You can totally play Yoda's theme over scenes that have nothing to do with him and they're delightful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be more than enough to get at least a few cues with musical form and structure. And Britell is more than able to develop his own thematic material. If they let him is another matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s sad but the next time we hear new Star Wars music will be in 2050 when Disney releases the John Williams complete scores

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 28/05/2022 at 1:46 AM, Mephariel said:

 

I have the opposite opinion. I think if you don't expand, you will turn an iconic soundscape into mundane. Williams did 9 films in that soundscape. Let his composition be unique and special to that era of Star Wars. Rareness adds intrigue, memorability. Then other composers can expand the definition and do their own soundscapes. Not only will the Star Wars universe be a lot more flavorful, but the discussions will be as well. I don't want spend the next 10 years discussing which composer emulated Williams the best. I want to talk about what they created and how their soundscapes defined the franchise.  

 

Absolutely this!

 

And what if a composer took on SW in future and turned out to be one who defines the next era's sound? If you demand that anything connected to the SW universe must emulate John Williams, you get a static soundscape and you don't get new talent emerging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Absolutely this!

 

And what if a composer took on SW in future and turned out to be one who defines the next era's sound? If you demand that anything connected to the SW universe must emulate John Williams, you get a static soundscape and you don't get new talent emerging.

 

I'm going to go back to my Bond comparison. Bond doesn't have to sound like Barry. But Bond has to sound like Bond. And it has to sound like the movie that it is.

 

I suppose I can drag Star Trek back into it. For some reason people thought all the movie composers sounded like Star Trek except for Rosenman. (Even though he totally did.) Even though none of the movies (except Rosenman) sounded very much like the Original Series.

 

It would be super interesting if someone could come up with a score that sounded absolutely like Star Wars and nothing like John Williams.

 

I'd bring up Man of Steel but I don't feel like dodging those slings and arrows. (I love Man of Steel.) Awwww, what the heck? Totally Superman. Nothing like Williams. OTOH, as much as I love it, and as great as it is, it does not hold a candle to Williams' Superman. But I love lots of movies that are not Lawrence of Arabia. And almost all of them do not hold a candle to Lawrence of Arabia.

 

If we ever get another score that's as good as Star Wars (or Empire or take your pick), let alone a score that's as good as Star Wars for a Star Wars FILM, never mind a TV SHOW then we should count ourselves blessed.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I suppose I can drag Star Trek back into it. For some reason people thought all the movie composers sounded like Star Trek except for Rosenman. (Even though he totally did.) Even though none of the movies (except Rosenman) sounded very much like the Original Series.

 

 

Horner. Khan. Brainwashed/Trells Death/Buried Alive

3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I would say John Powell pretty much managed to do so, even though he had a main theme from Williams at hand, the score sounded totally like Powell in adventure mode, in all the good and all the ways I don’t care for. 

Fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.