Who do you think will score the new Disney+ Obi-Wan Kenobi TV series, using Williams' theme?

[Edmilson 7,426]

Even Williams himself has used electronics a few times.

[Remco 685]

1 minute ago, Luke Skywalker said:

You're all entitled to your opinion and you don't have to like MG, but this claim is such nonsense. Regardless of the orchestrations he's using, he's written so much orchestral music of high quality for Rogue One and other movies. 

 

It's orchestral for sure, but that doesn't make it idiomatic.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Powell has a much greater grasp of orchestrations, harmony and counterpoint.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

In your humble opinion.

[Remco 685]

What @Not Mr. Big says is not really that subjective, in my humble opinion.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Man, with the JW cat out of the bag, I wish they’d just announce the details.  Why wait!

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

11 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Even Williams himself has used electronics a few timesfrequently.

 

Fixed. "A few times" stands if we're talking about the Star Wars saga exclusively.

Just now, Disco Stu said:

Man, with JW cat out of the bag, I wish they’d just announce the details.  Why wait!

 

[igger6 894]

1 hour ago, Remco said:

 

it just sounds like a poor man's Williams through and through.

 

That’s the issue. R1 is a poor man’s Williams, but that’s not always an insult, particularly to a Williams fan who recognizes that a poor man’s Williams is still an approximation of something he loves. (It was also composed in three weeks and is not a fair representation of Gia’s best work in any context.)

 

Pope has worked so extensively with Williams that some of his orchestral style has unquestionably bled into many JWFans’ concept of the “Williams sound.” But he’s never had anything like a Star Wars gig. 

 

Ross is clearly capable of being a middle-class man’s Williams (see Chamber of Secrets), but he had the incalculable advantage there of working with actual Williams, who was cranking out new themes left and right for him to play with.
 

For that matter, so did Powell.  Williams wrote him a multi-part corker of a theme that he referenced in basically every cue of Solo. There’s no telling how the score might have sounded—and how we might have subsequently reacted—without the Maestro making him a heck of a feather bed to sleep on. I would have been a lot less forgiving of a cue like “Flying With Chewie” (at least in the pre-Göransson salad days) if I didn’t have more glorious renditions of an adventurous new Williams theme waiting six measures away.  I’m not knocking Powell’s score overall; it’s brilliant. I’m just saying the percentage of its success (particularly to Williams fans) that’s due to the quality and prevalence of Williams’ theme is unknowable.
 

Basically, we have two composers who have lingered in the back rooms of Hollywood for decades and are hard to assess, an accomplished but lesser composer known for adoring and emulating Williams who rushed to adopt Williams’ exact style in an unforgiving timeframe with inferior themes, and an accomplished but very different composer who had access to—and the humility to liberally use—a dynamite new theme from Williams himself. There’s no settling this question.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

I agree that Gia's orchestrations are less layered than JW's, kind of like Goldsmith's.

[Holko 9,516]

17 minutes ago, igger6 said:

I’m not knocking Powell’s score overall; it’s brilliant.

Still you say you would have had to have been "forgiving" of a brilliant cue like Flying With Chewy?

[BB-8 3,466]

The problem is that synth-driven mood pieces can't be performed by the Vienna Philharmonic, unless they are arranged by William Ross.

[Fabulin 3,511]

12 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

The problem is that synth-driven mood pieces can't be performed by the Vienna Philharmonic, unless they are arranged by William Ross.

Nor can 90% of Morricone's music, or most of Goldsmith's, Herrmann's, North's, Barry's, Mancini's...

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

The VPO can't play Herrmann?

[Datameister 2,041]

35 minutes ago, igger6 said:

Pope has worked so extensively with Williams that some of his orchestral style has unquestionably bled into many JWFans’ concept of the “Williams sound.” But he’s never had anything like a Star Wars gig. 

 

I would question that unquestionable fact. It's not as though this "Williams sound" didn't exist before the 90s, when Pope started working with him. And it's not as though he's stopped sounding like himself now that he gives his sketches straight to JKMS.

 

If anything, Herb Spencer probably had a (slightly) larger influence over earlier Williams classics than Pope did in the 90s/oughts. Williams's earlier sketches are known to leave little to the imagination, but they have apparently become even more detailed as time has passed.

 

And then there's the fact that Pope didn't orchestrate every cue. Can you tell by listening where Karam or Neufeld or Morley or Courage pop in? I certainly can't. Not to mention the cues and concert works that Williams orchestrated himself.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

17 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

The problem is that synth-driven mood pieces can't be performed by the Vienna Philharmonic, unless they are arranged by William Ross.

John Powell scores are performed live all the time.  It's not that complicated to have the alleged "synth drums" layered on top or replaced with live instruments

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

7 minutes ago, Datameister said:

Williams's earlier sketches are known to leave little to the imagination

 

He draws that explicitly, eh?

[BB-8 3,466]

2 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

John Powell scores are performed live all the time.  It's not that complicated to have the alleged "synth drums" layered on top or replaced with live instruments

Maybe a new market niche for Martin Grubinger on gong drum.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

He draws that explicitly, eh?

 

He draws them like one of his French themes.

[igger6 894]

53 minutes ago, Holko said:

Still you say you would have had to have been "forgiving" of a brilliant cue like Flying With Chewy?

 

Well, yeah, to the extent that they deviate from the established Star Wars sound, which many fans hold in higher esteem than the inherent brilliance of a cue in isolation. "Flying With Chewie" is a great Powell cue, but if I played it for you in total ignorance of Solo you might have a hard time pegging it as a Star Wars cue—at least the last minute or so, which is what I was remembering when I made the comment.  The first half does have some solid Star Wars sound mixed in with some brilliant Powell-isms—much like the rest of the score—but some of that comes from the insertion of Williams' theme.

23 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

I would question that unquestionable fact. It's not as though this "Williams sound" didn't exist before the 90s, when Pope started working with him. And it's not as though he's stopped sounding like himself now that he gives his sketches straight to JKMS.

 

If anything, Herb Spencer probably had a (slightly) larger influence over earlier Williams classics than Pope did in the 90s/oughts. Williams's earlier sketches are known to leave little to the imagination, but they have apparently become even more detailed as time has passed.

 

And then there's the fact that Pope didn't orchestrate every cue. Can you tell by listening where Karam or Neufeld or Morley or Courage pop in? I certainly can't. Not to mention the cues and concert works that Williams orchestrated himself.

 

That's all fair.  I was trying to be more comprehensive by accounting for Pope in my post after writing the rest of it.  He's the one of those four that probably has the least legitimate claim to a shot at Obi-Wan, given the nature of his prior involvement with Williams and Star Wars, vis-à-vis the other three.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Ross orchestrated and conducted the three sequels i think

[Holko 9,516]

So a lot of people's problem seems to be that some of these new approaches do not fit their pre-made up strict idea of what they should be like, and when they don't fit that, it blocks them from being able to appreciate the scores for what they are, even quickly dismissing them for crap when they're really not in the case of Solo, Mando, a lot of Fett and I admit even much of RO. Or in worse cases just writing them off for crap out of the gate for using some instruments they don't like or what they think are instruments or approaches they don't like. Solo was a different mood and adventure, it completely allowed for a differentish Powelly adventure approach (even if it then buried it). Mando especially is different and deserves a different smaller rogueish approach! I wonder how these people dealt with JW's own sound having changed and evolved over the decades, TPM being a very different kind of big brassy score than the OT, RotS already being a very different sound at the end of that particular golden era of JW's, and the ST again being a different sound of his in his late late late period.

[Datameister 2,041]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

He draws that explicitly, eh?

 

Something something something fermatas...

[Richard Penna 3,679]

The need for validation in terms of how much JW's Han theme made Solo a listenable score is quite fascinating  

[D_nev 89]

I'd wager this has been discussed before due to the lack of mentioning him, but what are everyones thoughts on Gordy Haab being the one to keep the "Star Wars sound" alive?

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

Sounds like a JW AI.

[Jay 37,337]

Added some more options to the poll if anybody wants to change their vote

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

The need for validation in terms of how much JW's Han theme made Solo a listenable score is quite fascinating  

Haha. Quite. I like JW’s Han theme but Powell could quite well have written a great theme himself. As I’ve said before, Powell so effectively weaves it into his own style and material that if I didn’t know it was a JW theme I’d never have guessed (outside of the concert arrangement which has far more JW stylistic touches and orchestral thumbprints). Powell may not have quite the string of pubic consciousness themes but he’s a fine tunesmith in his own right. 

[Jay 37,337]

3 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Powell so effectively weaves it into his own style and material that if I didn’t know it was a JW theme I’d never have guessed (outside of the concert arrangement which has far more JW stylistic touches and orchestral thumbprints)

 

I agree with Tom Guernsey

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I don't.

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

55 minutes ago, Jay said:

I agree with Tom Guernsey

 

Especially this part:

59 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Powell may not have quite the string of pubic consciousness themes

 

[Tallguy 3,381]

I wonder how many people would hear something like City in the Clouds (choir!) or The Magic Tree (synths!) and say "Well THAT'S just not Star Wars!" 

[D_nev 89]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Sounds like a JW AI.

So this is a bad thing? Someone who can write colorful scores in the vein of Williams but bring their own tastes to it is better then?

6 minutes ago, D_nev said:

So this is a bad thing? Someone who can write colorful scores in the vein of Williams but bring their own tastes to it is better then?

BTW I agree with this notion 100%. I definitely think that there are elements of the Battlefront scores that does have a unique voice outside of a JW clone though. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

37 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I wonder how many people would hear something like City in the Clouds (choir!) or The Magic Tree (synths!) and say "Well THAT'S just not Star Wars!" 

 

And if only these people looked at the sheet music for all of the films and realized that (shocker!) almost every single cue has at least one layer of synthesizer elements, even if it's not easy to hear. Randy Kerber has been one of JW's biggest collaborators since TPM.

[Alex 2,835]

Could anyone direct me to any music composed by William Ross that makes him an appropriate candidate for this? 

[Richard Penna 3,679]

2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Haha. Quite. I like JW’s Han theme but Powell could quite well have written a great theme himself. As I’ve said before, Powell so effectively weaves it into his own style and material that if I didn’t know it was a JW theme I’d never have guessed (outside of the concert arrangement which has far more JW stylistic touches and orchestral thumbprints). Powell may not have quite the string of pubic consciousness themes but he’s a fine tunesmith in his own right. 

 

Absolutely - it's a very Williams-sounding concert arrangement, but the theme fits easily into Powell's work.

 

It's also the fact that once we'd established Williams had written a few actual cues too, lots of people were falling over themselves to work out which bits, and happily confirm that their favourite cues were Williams-composed.... like it actually matters. Forgive my choice of words here, but that's really childish. Either one likes a piece of music or they don't.

 

Had Solo been composed by someone with less talent in the themes department, and where Williams' theme were a clear highlight in an otherwise middling score, we'd be having a different conversation.

[mrbellamy 6,276]

It mattered because everybody here loves John Williams and was happy to have more music from him. We're all just hanging around here waiting for the next score so it was exciting to know there were new Star Wars compositions from the old coot hiding in plain sight. 

 

I also feel like you're overestimating anti-Powell sentiment among everyone devouring the score for Williams stuff. Seemed to me like anybody who was very critical of Powell's contributions didn't go anywhere near Solo after listening once. I think Powell did an amazing job, things like Corellia Chase, Train Heist, Lando's Closet, Mine Mission blew me away, including his variations on JW's theme in those first two, but definitely some of my other favorite little bits, I thought were cool as hell to know they were Williams. Like how I loved finding out the DreamWorks logo was by Williams or that James Horner was behind the 75th Universal logo which I always loved hearing. It's not that weird. Why be a fan of anybody if it doesn't matter who wrote it?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I had a strong hunch from the first viewing that the Coaxium cue was Williams but my liking it was not dependent on it being by Williams

[WampaRat 1,105]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

Could anyone direct me to any music composed by William Ross that makes him an appropriate candidate for this? 

Jay posted a YouTube playlist for Ross’s score to “The Tale of Desperaux”. I’ve been meaning to give it a listen myself. 
 

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,282]

8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Especially this part:

 

Bloody autocorrect…

7 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Absolutely - it's a very Williams-sounding concert arrangement, but the theme fits easily into Powell's work.

 

It's also the fact that once we'd established Williams had written a few actual cues too, lots of people were falling over themselves to work out which bits, and happily confirm that their favourite cues were Williams-composed.... like it actually matters. Forgive my choice of words here, but that's really childish. Either one likes a piece of music or they don't.

 

Had Solo been composed by someone with less talent in the themes department, and where Williams' theme were a clear highlight in an otherwise middling score, we'd be having a different conversation.

Agreed. Especially the last part. JP rose to the challenge of not wasting being given a John Williams theme to work with and made sure that not only  did he do it justice in terms of integrating it into his own music but also ensuring his themes worked alongside it so the whole thing sounded like an organic whole. I hope the Kenobi composer can do the same.

[BB-8 3,466]

The idiom of the Star Wars franchise was ultimately created by a fortunate combination of George Lucas' vivid phantasy, Ralph McQuarries creative visual concepts, ILM's Iinnovation and JW's genius. 

 

Take out one element, and it's no longer Star Wars.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

8 minutes ago, BB-8 said:

The idiom of the Star Wars franchise was ultimately created by a fortunate combination of George Lucas' vivid phantasy, Ralph McQuarries creative visual concepts, ILM's Iinnovation and JW's genius. 

 

Take out one element, and it's no longer Star Wars.

I always found that what make Star Wars was John Williams music, no matter the default of the movies you still have this indescribable Star Wars vibes when listening to the music.

[BB-8 3,466]

There will never be a poor man's Powell.

[GerateWohl 4,350]

11 hours ago, BB-8 said:

The idiom of the Star Wars franchise was ultimately created by a fortunate combination of George Lucas' vivid phantasy, Ralph McQuarries creative visual concepts, ILM's Iinnovation and JW's genius. 

 

Take out one element, and it's no longer Star Wars.

I think, it already lost a lot, when Ben Burtt was replaced for the sound effects.

[publicist 4,643]

On 18/02/2022 at 4:58 PM, BB-8 said:

It's just a fact that Giacchino came closer to the idiom of previous Star Wars scores by Williams than Powell did.

 

Coming closer to clumsily gang-raping it and then let it lying on the street bleeding to death.

[Jurassic Shark 12,052]

That's Gia!

[BB-8 3,466]

[GerateWohl 4,350]

If I would need to compare Powel's theme writing to someone John Williams would not come to my mind. I find Powel often rather has a Rózsa vibe in his melodies, which is a great compliment form my side. But concerning orchestration a lot to learn he still has.

[Jay 37,337]

After seeing the trailer, does anyone have a different opinion on who they'd like to be scoring the show?