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"The Ugly Truth of How Movie Scores Are Made" - Vanity Fair article 2/21/22


Disco Stu

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The article speaks quite a bit about Netflix regarding the issue of buyouts and royalties, but, especially since they are more aggressively hiring "name" talent for their projects, I'd be very interested to know how composers for Disney+ shows fare in terms of royalty/back-end deals.

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This article really made me feel bad. It's awful to know that some of my favorite composers probably didn't write the wonderful cues I love.

 

Which is why I'd like to know who employs ghost writers without giving them credit (so, unlike Zimmer; he at leasts credits his assistants). JNH? Silvestri? Giacchino? 

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Giacchino credits the collaborators...at least in the film. And he seems to hire new composers, work with them a few times, then make a credited collaboration effort and then the new composer starts doing things on their own.

 

Chris Tilton, Chad Seiter, Nami Melumad...

 

Though i dont know which tracks could be written by each...

 

 

Anyway, it's sad how the industry is these days.

 

 

 

 

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I'm almost sending the link for the article to Silvestri and JNH on their social media channels asking them what they think about it. They probably won't tell if they do that in real life, but it'll be interesting to see what they think.

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12 minutes ago, Brónach said:

Ghost composers should be called composers and required to appear on main credits, end credits, cd covers and track listing; unless the composer group forms a boy band or something and they prefer that.

 

I suspect that marketing people might have a few things to say about that, but I agree 100%. If a composer has written anything on that soundtrack, their name should be on the front cover.

 

This could well be something that Zimmer has campaigned for ('aditional music' credits) but he's got enough clout to put other composers' names on album covers, and yet he doesn't. Because he knows he's the 'name', perhaps?

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24 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

They should get the bloody oscar nomination too because that is what is going to get them the next jobs and the best jobs and higher pay and better working conditions.

 

Isn't it outrageous that Zimmer - he is likely to win - will head alone on to the stage of the academy awards and receive laurels for composing the score for Dune?

 

Think how transformative it would be for some other composers if they are standing beside him on that stage accepting the laurels as co-creators of the work.

Didn’t Alfred Newman get like 30 Oscars back in the day because he was the head of the music department of whatever film got best score? Maybe they should change some titles around. That way people would know they’re essentially just directors of all things related to the music. Sure they wrote some stuff. But not every note you hear. (Like the general public would assume)

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16 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

 Maybe they should change some titles around. That way people would know they’re essentially just directors of all things related to the music. Sure they wrote some stuff. But not every note you hear. (Like the general public would assume)

 

or why not give the award to everyone who composed the music?

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I legitimately wonder if this article might give the fuel for some additional composers to actually speak out about this process, since I always got the impression it was the sort of thing that could get them fired if they dared even allude to it (as one Balfe interview certainly suggests).

 

I've spoken before about how it's incredibly difficult to determine who exactly wrote what, since it all sounds so singular in vision to begin with. Perhaps the team doesn't feel they deserve the big credit if it ends up all sounding like the main man anyway. But with how much I hear about how certain aspects came about thanks to the influence of a particular person on the crew, I suppose more transparency is something that can be appreciated if their names were to be just below Zimmer or others.

 

That being said: an album cover like this probably gonna either be an immediate turn off or just lead the average consumer to be very confused

 

XperimentsInterviewHansZimmer-Cover.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

I legitimately wonder if this article might give the fuel for some additional composers to actually speak out about this process, since I always got the impression it was the sort of thing that could get them fired if they dared even allude to it (as one Balfe interview certainly suggests).

 

I've spoken before about how it's incredibly difficult to determine who exactly wrote what, since it all sounds so singular in vision to begin with. Perhaps the team doesn't feel they deserve the big credit if it ends up all sounding like the main man anyway. But with how much I hear about how certain aspects came about thanks to the influence of a particular person on the crew, I suppose more transparency is something that can be appreciated if their names were to be just below Zimmer or others.

 

That being said: an album cover like this probably gonna either be an immediate turn off or just lead the average consumer to be very confused

 

XperimentsInterviewHansZimmer-Cover.jpg

 

 

Most popular music today has writing credits that look like this. I don't think anybody would be that confused. 

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I'm curious about Desplat and JNH... Has either of them ever spoken about their practices re: ghostwriters (or lack thereof)?

 

Giacchino almost certainly must be using a fairly large number of ghostwriters, at least on some scores (like Rogue One).

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I find it silly that people would be “confused” if all the other composers were credited.
Do people believe the production designer built every thing seen on film themselves? Or the sound designer did it all himself? Each person on the poster just represents an entire department. But I suppose the average Joe wouldn’t know that(?) I dunno. It’s sad not everyone is getting their due credit (or rightful pay).

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2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Of course Williams isn't actually the last film composer to write all the music.  People like Desplat and Shore are working!

 

I'm sure Silvestri still work pretty much alone too, well at least he's the boss of his music!

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1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Of course Williams isn't actually the last film composer to write all the music.  People like Desplat and Shore are working!

 

Do we know Desplat writes all his music? I wouldn't be surprised, to be sure, given that he's not really a "Hollywood" guy and his scores often have somewhat thinner orchestration that someone as talented as he could plausibly write quickly.

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Just now, Disco Stu said:

 

He has said in multiple interviews that he does not use a team of composers

 

Very cool. Major props to Desplat. 

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14 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Most popular music today has writing credits that look like this. I don't think anybody would be that confused. 

 

12 minutes ago, WampaRat said:

I find it silly that people would be “confused” if all the other composers were credited.
Do people believe the production designer built every thing seen on film themselves? Or the sound designer did it all himself? Each person on the poster just represents an entire department. But I suppose the average Joe wouldn’t know that(?) I dunno. It’s sad not everyone is getting their due credit (or rightful pay).

 

I'm mainly going off on one instance years ago, when I read an Amazon review for Beltrami's Fantastic Four.  The reviewer actually had looked in the booklet and found his usual collaborators listed in the additional section. Given it was advertised as being this proper team up with Philip Glass (who only really did 3-4 cues), they just ended up getting lost over who actually did what and if the main credit really is that accurate.

 

I suppose that more describes what the others have said about the whole ordeal, but I do think it gives a pretty good example of just what the average schmoe might think regarding the subject.

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1 hour ago, Brónach said:

Ghost composers should be called composers and required to appear on main credits, end credits, cd covers and track listing; unless the composer group forms a boy band or something and they prefer that.

Hans Zimmer forms a boy band called "Hans Zimmer"

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For sure, it would generate debate, the way that people debate whether a multi-million dollar recording artist writes any of their own music. Why shouldn't that be happening more openly in film music? 

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4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I'd be very interested to know how composers for Disney+ shows fare in terms of royalty/back-end deals.

 

Not very well, probably.

 

 

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We finally have reaction from an actual Zimling:

 

Geoff Zannelli's Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/GeoffZanelli/status/1495849542658531338

Quote

With the VF article that came out today, in case anyone is wondering, I have always been credited for the music I wrote, and (nearly) always received an appropriate amount of royalties. I hope the composers who work on my scores feel the same.


This means that I am comfortable saying publicly that Hans Zimmer, John Powell, Danny Elfman, Ramin Djawadi, Steve Jablonsky and probably some others I'm leaving out as I write this in haste ALL fought for me to be credited and paid royalties.


One example of many: "Don't thank me, thank Geoff" is what HZ said to Gore during a Pirates playback when Gore Verbinski loved a cue I wrote.


Others, I know, have had vastly different experiences than me in this industry so I am glad I fell in with the right people. I do know that mine isn't the case for everyone.


And I try to pass this all on to people I work with on my own scores. I'm sure I fail sometimes. But I try. Production companies occasionally push back on my efforts, but not regularly.


That time I won an Emmy? There were two other people listed on the cue sheet. Blake Neely and Bobby Tahouri wrote addt'l music for Into The West, credited and receiving royalties. It appeared not to factor for awards consideration in that case.


Maybe that was just a matter of percentages. Their role was significant and essential to the score, but still not near the majority of the cues.


But then on The Pacific, Hans, Blake and I were nominated together for a score that was a three-way co-write. It again appeared not to factor for awards consideration. Maybe different rules for different academies?

 

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1 hour ago, Will said:

I'm curious about Desplat and JNH... Has either of them ever spoken about their practices re: ghostwriters (or lack thereof)?

 

Giacchino almost certainly must be using a fairly large number of ghostwriters, at least on some scores (like Rogue One).

 

This is Joe Kraemer's reply on the R1 story (in the middle of his long thread of sharing thoughs on "why does it take four guys to score one movie")

 

 

4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I'm happy for Powell and Elfman being labeled as "good guys" in ther relationship with their assistants. However, I do want to know who are the "bad guys" - those who gain awards and recognition for stuff they didn't write.

 

 

One example that instantly pops into mind is John Ottman's Non-Stop. He only wrote themes/sketches while his assistant was responsible for all the "blood and flesh". I do not own the CD so I don't know what credits it says there but at least Ottman is the only one appearing on the soundtrack cover

 

 

Also one confusing case is Kevin Kiner

As a composer who often went on record and admitted his sons were a significant part of his composing process, he remains the only one appears on the album cover. and I do think "Music By The Kiners" would make a cool credit

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