"The Ugly Truth of How Movie Scores Are Made" - Vanity Fair article 2/21/22

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

what could be the early 90s score Williams was amazed of having been written in three weeks?

 

 

[KK 3,307]

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Tim Greiving agrees that not naming names makes the article toothless

 

 

 

Agreed. Glad to see very well-known shady practices aired out in the public...but it very much still lets the biggest perpretators of the system off the hook. Kind of a "this whole game sucks...but we can't do anything about it" situation.

 

At least a more concentrated attack on streaming giants (cough cough) and its abysmal treatment of composer royalties and copyright would be more useful.

 

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I have no quarrel with the model. The model is ... let's just say.. inevitable.

 

Inevitable indeed. Classical music and literature have the benefit of having years afforded to them for development and the financial support from patrons to support this process. Film music suffers from crunching that timeline to a mere matter of weeks, and actively in service of a multi-million dollar corporate machine. It is very very tough for massive blockbusters to allow the kind singular creative "auteurship" for its composers. That's the kind of thing you have to look to smaller, more independent features for.

 

And yes, credit, and primarily names on cue sheets need to happen more often...because that's how co-composers, ghostwriters, etc can make a living. And even when folks like Zimmer and Giacchino do that for their co-composers, it's still their names and brands that get showered with "genius", deification, and the endless barrage of high-profile work.

 

It is a hard ladder to climb up, being an A-list composer's assistant...requires many years of patience, and varying levels of success.

[TheUlyssesian 2,475]

9 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

what could be the early 90s score Williams was amazed of having been written in three weeks?

 

 

 

It is confounding me. It said "popular".

 

 

[Aliandra 90]

Where does it say that Williams was amazed that a popular, early 90s score was written in 3 weeks? It would be nice to have context.

[Jaaaackified 81]

3 minutes ago, Aliandra said:

Where does it say that Williams was amazed that a popular, early 90s score was written in 3 weeks? It would be nice to have context.

 

 

[Aliandra 90]

Thanks.

[WampaRat 1,105]

11 minutes ago, Jaaaackified said:

 

 

I listened to this interview. I believe Pope mentions he was referring to Kamen’s Robin Hood Prince of Thieves score. Kamen was a real champ and took out an add later in one of the trades thanking all the additional composers and orchestrators for such committed work in such hectic circumstances.

[Aliandra 90]

Yeah, that's probably it.

[Lord Zimmer 211]

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Feels like he was asked to post this.

 

“I did not like reading that as it goes against the narrative I’ve been trying to push. Therefore I’m going to make up some shit to devalue it.” 

 

 

[mstrox 6,649]

Feels like you were asked to post that.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

"Enter Lord Zimmer" is Williams' most epic cue

[Faleel 5,345]

11 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Feels like you were asked to post that.

Feels like you posted to ask that.

[Damien F 1,742]

I'm a Bond fan and followed a lot of the prerelease publicity interviews for No Time To Die including those with Zimmer. There were a number of interviews where he was asked about the score and was keen to acknowledge Steve Mazzaro as a major contributor even if he wasn't mentioned by the interviewer. 

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Zimmer's attitude at times but at least he had the right approach with acknowledging Mazzaro at every opportunity. This also leads to be suspect that Zimmer's composing involvement for that score was negligible. Most likely just provided the general direction and let Mazzaro drive and manage the day to day work.

[Tallguy 3,381]

4 hours ago, Will said:

I assume Silvestri writes all his music, though admittedly I have no real basis for thinking that beyond the fact that he's kinda from a different, older generation of composer...

 

I hope that's true. I was a little nervous that he was omitted from the article. 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Sung to the song " Do you know how Christmas Trees Are Made ( from OHMSS)

 

DO you know how Movie scores are made?

They have writers

Writers are occasionally called ghosts, uuncredited.

 

Do you know...

They have software.

 

Do you know..

They have programmers...

 

Do you know....

They need orchestrators....

 

Do you know...

Most of all, they need money#

 

[Edmilson 7,424]

1 hour ago, Damien F said:

This also leads to be suspect that Zimmer's composing involvement for that score was negligible. Most likely just provided the general direction and let Mazzaro drive and manage the day to day work.

That may be true for most of the animated films credited to Zimmer. He may be labeled as the composer of stuff like The Simpsons Movie, the Madagascar trilogy, Shark Tale, etc., but I doubt he wrote more than a suite, with most of the actual scoring done by his Zimlings.

 

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

I hope that's true. I was a little nervous that he was omitted from the article. 

I can relate to that anxiousness. Specially after I remembered that he maybe wasn't present at the Infinity War recording sessions, which was orchestrated and conducted by his "assistants" because he was too busy with Ready Player One (IW was recorded in London, RP1 in the US).

[Tallguy 3,381]

2 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Sung to the song " Do you know how Christmas Trees Are Made ( from OHMSS)

 

DO you know how Movie scores are made?

They have writers

Writers are occasionally called ghosts, uuncredited.

 

Do you know...

They have software.

 

Do you know..

They have programmers...

 

Do you know....

They need orchestrators....

 

Do you know...

Most of all, they need money#

 

 

I hate that song more than some people here hate Zimmer.

[Mephariel 451]

8 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

This is an article riddle with a lack of balls and full of cowardice.

 

It needed to be an expose of Zimmer. The general public rides his balls thinking he is the greatest composer that ever lived. 

 

It would be a much bigger story if they exposed him completely. 

 

It lacks courage because even though it makes some hits at him later on, it absolves him right there in the second paragraph saying he is one of the greats. Any hits later on are not going to register if you start with that.

 

What a missed opportunity.

 

If anything, this article finally exposed the OTHER composers. For years people act like Zimmer is the only one who uses additional composers. I am glad an article comes out that finally shut a lot of traditional film music fans up. "OMG, Zimmer didn't compose every note." Neither did Giacchino, Powell, Tyler, Elfman, etc. 

 

I am glad Kramer said what he said. Literally everyone in Hollywood is using ghostwriters.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

3 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I hate that song more than some people here hate Zimmer.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JohnBarryAppreciationSociety/permalink/10158465579130770/

[LSH 968]

4 hours ago, KK said:

Kind of a "this whole game sucks...but we can't do anything about it" situation.

 

Nail on the head really. I mean this is a prevalent practice in a lot of industries and it's probably worse now than it ever was. Working in middle management for the past eight years has proven this to me. You never get recognition/reparations that are due.

 

I'm bitter and little drunk. 

[Mephariel 451]

8 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

They should get the bloody oscar nomination too because that is what is going to get them the next jobs and the best jobs and higher pay and better working conditions.

 

Isn't it outrageous that Zimmer - he is likely to win - will head alone on to the stage of the academy awards and receive laurels for composing the score for Dune?

 

Think how transformative it would be for some other composers if they are standing beside him on that stage accepting the laurels as co-creators of the work.

 

The problem with this type of thinking is, do you also think second unit directors should stand with the director? Some action scenes in movies are done literally without the director present. What about cinematographers? Do you think assistant cinematographers should win an Oscar too? What about writers? Do you think every writer who wrote a line should get the Oscar too? Some scripts have tons of people uncredited. What about actors? Should stunt doubles get an Oscar for doing entire fight scenes? Chase scenes?

[TheUlyssesian 2,475]

2 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

The problem with this type of thinking is, do you also think second unit directors should stand with the director? Some action scenes in movies are done literally without the director present. What about cinematographers? Do you think assistant cinematographers should win an Oscar too? What about writers? Do you think every writer who wrote a line should get the Oscar too? Some scripts have tons of people uncredited. 

i know all this is a real problem. For the kind of movies I like, all this isn’t a problem. But overall I agree this is a real problem.

 

 Though I would also argue that films where this is a real problem are not usually up for awards.

[Mephariel 451]

3 hours ago, Damien F said:

I'm a Bond fan and followed a lot of the prerelease publicity interviews for No Time To Die including those with Zimmer. There were a number of interviews where he was asked about the score and was keen to acknowledge Steve Mazzaro as a major contributor even if he wasn't mentioned by the interviewer. 

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Zimmer's attitude at times but at least he had the right approach with acknowledging Mazzaro at every opportunity. This also leads to be suspect that Zimmer's composing involvement for that score was negligible. Most likely just provided the general direction and let Mazzaro drive and manage the day to day work.

 

Zimmer's methodology is pretty well known. There is no need to "suspect." He writes the suites and the general themes then work on the score. When he retires for the day, his additional composers steps in to work on some of the score. When his additional composers retires for the day, he steps back in and check what has been done. RCP insiders already shred light on this.

[LSH 968]

8 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

i know all this is a real problem. For the kind of movies I like, all this isn’t a problem. But overall I agree this is a real problem.

 

 Though I would also argue that films where this is a real problem are not usually up for awards.

 

Oscars mean jack shit in a creative sense and it's so very awfully sad that it's deemed a stamp of quality... and a plus-point on your CV.

[TheUlyssesian 2,475]

17 hours ago, Lord Zimmer said:

 

“I did not like reading that as it goes against the narrative I’ve been trying to push. Therefore I’m going to make up some shit to devalue it.” 

 

 

 

I legit thought this post was in support of my post.

 

When I come into this thread later on and see some responses do I realize that it is mocking me.

 

But read it again - it is literally a perfect summation of what Geoff Zannelli is trying to do. 

 

 

[Mephariel 451]

5 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Or you could read it and find out that a) it's not primarily Zimmer bashing and b) the criticism is well-founded.

 

As a huge Zimmer fan, not only is this article not Zimmer bashing, I am glad someone wrote it and has the guts to say what is needed. I remember arguing with someone on FSM and he insisted that Giacchino and Tyler and other composers don't ghostwrite the way Zimmer does. They do. I am tired of traditional film music fans derailing every Zimmer thread by saying "but he probably didn't write that." Guess what? Your favorite composer didn't write every one of his or her cues either. And I am also tired of people saying Zimmer should put his additional composers on the cover and doesn't apply the same logic to other composers. Bear McCreary worked with like 7 composers on foundation. He has a company called Sparks and Shadows and some of his previous interns now works for Zimmer. He never credits anyone.

[Edmilson 7,424]

10 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

If anything, this article finally exposed the OTHER composers. For years people act like Zimmer is the only one who uses additional composers. I am glad an article comes out that finally shut a lot of traditional film music fans up. "OMG, Zimmer didn't compose every note." Neither did Giacchino, Powell, Tyler, Elfman, etc. 

The article actually made me realize how much worse the situation actually is. Before today, I thought the credited composer at least provided the main themes and/or scored the major scenes. But according to the article, the main composer doesn't do even that, he basically just says "this is a sad scene so write just some generic sad music for strings while I relax and enjoy the credits".

 

Imagine listening and falling in love with a score only to discover that the guy who was credited as the main composer didn't write more than a few notes, and instead his job was to sit down and order his minions to do all the hard work. It's so disappoiting and depressing. 

 

I'm seriously bummed by this article. Ignorance is indeed a blessing.

[LSH 968]

1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

The article actually made me realize how much worse the situation actually is. Before today, I thought the credited composer at least provided the main themes and/or scored the major scenes. But according to the article, the main composer doesn't do even that, he basically just says "this is a sad scene so write just some generic sad music for strings while I relax and enjoy the credits".

 

Imagine listening and falling in love with a score only to discover that the guy who was credited as the main composer didn't write more than a few notes, and instead his job was to sit down and order his minions to do all the hard work. It's so disappoiting and depressing. 

 

I'm seriously bummed by this article. Ignorance is indeed a blessing.

 

I'd like to know how prevalent it is outside of the Zimmer camp, I really would.

 

I mean, I don't think the likes of Thomas Newman, Howard Shore or Alan Silvestri outsource composition duties. James Newton Howard has rebutted claims that he does.

 

I agree with you though, Edmilson, it is upsetting.  

[Mephariel 451]

1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

The article actually made me realize how much worse the situation actually is. Before today, I thought the credited composer at least provided the main themes and/or scored the major scenes. But according to the article, the main composer doesn't do even that, he basically just says "this is a sad scene so write just some generic sad music for strings while I relax and enjoy the credits".

 

Imagine listening and falling in love with a score only to discover that the guy who was credited as the main composer didn't write more than a few notes, and instead his job was to sit down and order his minions to do all the hard work. It's so disappoiting and depressing. 

 

I'm seriously bummed by this article. Ignorance is indeed a blessing.

 

But we sort know this is the truth for years right? People just like to ignore it. I could be wrong but Christopher Nightingale wrote a lot of the main theme for Doctor Strange. Steve Jablonsky wrote one of the main themes for King Arthur I believe. Zimmer wrote the Pirates theme even though Badelt is on the cover. 

3 minutes ago, LSH said:

 

I'd like to know how prevalent it is outside of the Zimmer camp, I really would.

 

I mean, I don't think the likes of Thomas Newman, Howard Shore or Alan Silvestri outsource composition duties. James Newton Howard has rebutted claims that he does.

 

I agree with you though, Edmilson, it is upsetting.  

 

From Jonathan Broxton of UK Movie Music:

 

"This is an important article. As someone who is deeply immersed in film music, none of this is surprising - in fact, among my peer group it's basically common knowledge - but it should at least put a pin in the old-fashioned notion that a composer sits alone, working in an ivory tower, toiling away in creative solitude. This is not, and has rarely ever, been the case; as far back as the Hollywood golden age the studio system employed ghostwriters and additional composers.

 

And, you know, as a basic rule, working collaboratively with others isn't necessarily a bad thing - sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get the work done, and some people just work better being around others to bounce ideas off. That's fine. Deadlines are real. The real issue is credit and remuneration, and that's where Hollywood has been failing for years."

[TheUlyssesian 2,475]

11 minutes ago, LSH said:

 

Oscars mean jack shit in a creative sense and it's so very awfully sad that it's deemed a stamp of quality... and a plus-point on your CV.

 

Oscars are like bitcoin - they have value if people trading in them think they have value.

 

And whether you like it or not - the film industry absolutely does. Absolutely absolutely absolutely. To a person. Would they like to be nominated? Heck ya. Would they like to win one? Double heck ya. 

 

So there you go. That's the reason they have value - to them. Maybe not to you but to them - for sure. 

[LSH 968]

19 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Oscars are like bitcoin - they have value if people trading in them think they have value.

 

And whether you like it or not - the film industry absolutely does. Absolutely absolutely absolutely. To a person. Would they like to be nominated? Heck ya. Would they like to win one? Double heck ya. 

 

So there you go. That's the reason they have value - to them. Maybe not to you but to them - for sure. 

 

No, I completely agree. I was being totally flippant with my comment. It's just a shame. Film music is a very unique art amongst art. 

 

23 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

But we sort know this is the truth for years right? People just like to ignore it. I could be wrong but Christopher Nightingale wrote a lot of the main theme for Doctor Strange. Steve Jablonsky wrote one of the main themes for King Arthur I believe. Zimmer wrote the Pirates theme even though Badelt is on the cover. 

 

From Jonathan Broxton of UK Movie Music:

 

"This is an important article. As someone who is deeply immersed in film music, none of this is surprising - in fact, among my peer group it's basically common knowledge - but it should at least put a pin in the old-fashioned notion that a composer sits alone, working in an ivory tower, toiling away in creative solitude. This is not, and has rarely ever, been the case; as far back as the Hollywood golden age the studio system employed ghostwriters and additional composers.

 

And, you know, as a basic rule, working collaboratively with others isn't necessarily a bad thing - sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get the work done, and some people just work better being around others to bounce ideas off. That's fine. Deadlines are real. The real issue is credit and remuneration, and that's where Hollywood has been failing for years."

 

Yeah, I understand that. And with all honesty I shouldn't really care. I'm an armchair critic as much as most of us are. I love film music, more than most genres, and it's my fucking crutch in the worst of times. I care about the people that make it as much as I care about the people who provide any other material substance in my life that I enjoy... which is utmost respect.

 

So yeah, get the credits and royalties right. I can't do much from where I'm sitting but I hope it gets better because film music is not an art-form that deserves this sort of internal madness.

[Damien F 1,742]

37 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

 

Zimmer's methodology is pretty well known. There is no need to "suspect." He writes the suites and the general themes then work on the score. When he retires for the day, his additional composers steps in to work on some of the score. When his additional composers retires for the day, he steps back in and check what has been done. RCP insiders already shred light on this.

 

What mean is I suspect Zimmer was even less involved than usual with the No Time To Die score.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

See, now this is how it's done.

 

[Bayesian 1,359]

The VF article might seem to pull its punches (although I don't blame the writer; he couldn't get his sources to name names), but it's high-profile enough to potentially make a dent for the better in the film scoring universe. 

 

I am all for equitable treatment of ghost composers in terms of recognition, payment, and royalties, but I find it dismaying to read about composers claiming credit for such basic elements in a film score. In the article, Mike Zarin claims credit for Zimmer's horn of doom (the ol' "BWAAAM" trick). It is literally one fucking chord. Anyone could have written that, and probably has, countless times, in the history of music. Is Zarin seeking to claim credit for marking the dynamic fff, or calling for x number of horns instead of x−n horns, or adding some synth layer? A single chord is not writing music. It's arranging.

 

The older I get (and I'm not old), the more I bemoan how regressive many things are becoming, even as (comparably fewer) things are improving. Thank God JW is still alive -- and not just in the sense of "still alive but not doing anything, so he's just a living symbol of a lost competence," but instead "still alive and still showing the rest of the world how it's done."

[Mephariel 451]

1 minute ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

See, now this is how it's done.

 

 

Good for Powell and Sener. Which is why I am baffled that RCP composers get such a bad rap. On Zimmer's website, you can see all the cuesheet sheet credits and the additional composers are on it. Additional composers are also openly listed. Do other composers outside of RCP ever talk about their additional composers? I honestly have never read a quote about it. 

[Bayesian 1,359]

1 minute ago, Mephariel said:

 

Good for Powell and Sener. Which is why I am baffled that RCP composers get such a bad rap. On Zimmer's website, you can see all the cuesheet sheet credits and the additional composers are on it. Additional composers are also openly listed. Do other composers outside of RCP ever talk about their additional composers? I honestly have never read a quote about it. 

When you say "cuesheet sheet credits," is that to mean that the composers listed are given fair payments and royalties?

[LSH 968]

5 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

When you say "cuesheet sheet credits," is that to mean that the composers listed are given fair payments and royalties?

 

Yes. At least it should. ASCAP, BMI, etc legislation, no?

[Mephariel 451]

4 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

When you say "cuesheet sheet credits," is that to mean that the composers listed are given fair payments and royalties?

 

No clue. I don't think anyone will disclose pay unless it is anonymously leaked. I also truly don't know what "fair" payments and royalties are. 

1 minute ago, LSH said:

 

Yes. At least it should. ASCAP, BMI, etc legislation, no?

 

But I think the question is, fair as in what they deserve, not what they are legally paid. Of course they get paid if they are on the cuesheet.

[Will 2,215]

If Giacchino uses ghostwriters (I have been unable to find any confirmation that he does, but some who know more than me seem to know or assume that to be the case) that has to be one of the most egregious examples of failing to properly credit. E.g., as best I can remember, the Rogue One score credits Bill Ross & others for orchestrations but nothing more than that. No additional composers are listed, I believe (others can correct me if I'm wrong).

 

If anyone finds any statements by James Newton Howard about whether he uses ghostwriters, I'd love to see it. He's a guy I'm curious about (along with Silvestri). For that matter, if anyone finds any quotes of Desplat, Giacchino, or anyone else talking about ghostwriting, please post!

[LSH 968]

9 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

But I think the question is, fair as in what they deserve, not what they are legally paid. Of course they get paid if they are on the cuesheet.

 

Ok, I get what you're saying. I guess 'fair' is a pretty arbitrary term in this messy system. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,475]

18 minutes ago, Will said:

If Giacchino uses ghostwriters (I have been unable to find any confirmation that he does, but some who know more than me seem to know or assume that to be the case) that has to be one of the most egregious examples of failing to properly credit. E.g., as best I can remember, the Rogue One score credits Bill Ross & others for orchestrations but nothing more than that. No additional composers are listed, I believe (others can correct me if I'm wrong).

 

If anyone finds any statements by James Newton Howard about whether he uses ghostwriters, I'd love to see it. He's a guy I'm curious about (along with Silvestri). For that matter, if anyone finds any quotes of Desplat, Giacchino, or anyone else talking about ghostwriting, please post!

 

Might just be me. I kiiiinda get the feeling that JNH writes all his own music or most of it.

 

I saw this masterclass with him about how he scored Fantastic Beasts and over an hour of conversation, the level of articulation that he had about every single note, every single theme, instrumentation choice, pace, rhythm, etc. really made it seem to me that he wrote every last note of it.

[WinkingMonk 1]

Anyone have any guesses as to who the five composers that Joe Kraemer referenced are? He said he could count them on one hand.

[Will 2,215]

22 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Might just be me. I kiiiinda get the feeling that JNH writes all his own music or most of it.

 

I saw this masterclass with him about how he scored Fantastic Beasts and over an hour of conversation, the level of articulation that he had about every single note, every single theme, instrumentation choice, pace, rhythm, etc. really made it seem to me that he wrote every last note of it.

 

Very cool if true, given how much dense music is required for the sorts of blockbusters JNH often scores.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

13 minutes ago, WinkingMonk said:

Anyone have any guesses as to who the five composers that Joe Kraemer referenced are? He said he could count them on one hand.

 

Well it was a metaphor, so not literally exactly 5 specific people. 

[LSH 968]

27 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Well it was a metaphor, so not literally exactly 5 specific people. 

 

Come on, it might be. Let's face it, he's had enough time to count.

 

EDIT: 

 

That was a cruel joke. He's very talented and I genuinely wish he got more gigs.

[Datameister 2,041]

1 hour ago, Will said:

If Giacchino uses ghostwriters (I have been unable to find any confirmation that he does, but some who know more than me seem to know or assume that to be the case) that has to be one of the most egregious examples of failing to properly credit. E.g., as best I can remember, the Rogue One score credits Bill Ross & others for orchestrations but nothing more than that. No additional composers are listed, I believe (others can correct me if I'm wrong).

 

If anyone finds any statements by James Newton Howard about whether he uses ghostwriters, I'd love to see it. He's a guy I'm curious about (along with Silvestri). For that matter, if anyone finds any quotes of Desplat, Giacchino, or anyone else talking about ghostwriting, please post!

 

FWIW, I briefly met MG a while back. I complimented him on one of his less typical, lower-profile projects. He was quick to praise the team he worked with, somewhat downplaying his own contributions. On another occasion, I glimpsed the cue sheet for that project and it did properly credit the other composers/arrangers. (I suspect there's less ghostwriting on most of his projects, though I could be mistaken.)

[Stark 312]

Very interesting article. I see at least one person wondering about James Newton Howard - I can definitely confirm that he has used additional music composers at various points, including Chris Bacon (source: https://kraft-engel.com/clients/chris-bacon/) and Sven Faulconer (source: https://www.svenfaulconer.com). I don’t know who else might have worked for him or how much music they actually compose, or even how well they are credited, though. 

1 hour ago, WinkingMonk said:

Anyone have any guesses as to who the five composers that Joe Kraemer referenced are? He said he could count them on one hand.

I presume they include John Williams, Howard Shore, and Carter Burwell - I have quite a few other candidates (Silvestri, Doyle, the Newmans, and so on), the “one hand”, may have been slightly hyperbolic!

[Will 2,215]

Re: Desplat, I found the interview where he says he gives his orchestrators a "very precise sketch" with "a lot of detail": 

 

 

(Thanks to @Jilal for first bringing this to my attention back in 2016.)

[TheUlyssesian 2,475]

30 minutes ago, Stark said:

Very interesting article. I see at least one person wondering about James Newton Howard - I can definitely confirm that he has used additional music composers at various points, including Chris Bacon (source: https://kraft-engel.com/clients/chris-bacon/) and Sven Faulconer (source: https://www.svenfaulconer.com). I don’t know who else might have worked for him or how much music they actually compose, or even how well they are credited, though. 

I presume they include John Williams, Howard Shore, and Carter Burwell - I have quite a few other candidates (Silvestri, Doyle, the Newmans, and so on), the “one hand”, may have been slightly hyperbolic!

 

Oh JNH gave Bacon absolute full on screen equal billing co credit. Now that's what you called giving credit. 

 

 

I now see that Sven has helped JNH a ton. I still get the sense in this case the arrangement is JNH absolutely being the author of the work and Sven helping with details (most of his credits say synth programming). 

[Will 2,215]

To be fair to those composers who don't give prominent credits to some people who made important contributions, JW himself has a strange practice of refusing to credit orchestrators in OST booklets, despite crediting JKMS, Ramiro Belgardt (or Ken Wannberg back in the day), etc. -- and despite crediting the orchestrators in the film end credits:

 

 

Obviously this isn't precisely analogous since the role of an orchestrator for JW is much smaller than the sorts of ghostwriters/additional composers we're talking about in this thread. But the issue of proper credit still comes into play -- if JKMS is worthy of a credit for music preparation in the OST booklet, why not the orchestrators?