SPOILER TALK: The Batman (2022)

[Jay 37,346]

Didn't realize we didn't even have a thread for this. 

 

 

 

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So that was The Joker at the end, yes? 

 

And was The Riddler the reporter's son, or just a completely unconnected guy who figured it out as a forensic accountant? 

 

And did he know Batman was Bruce Wayne or not? I thought he didn't, but then he started singing Ave Maria... 

[KK 3,307]

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

So that was The Joker at the end, yes? 

 

Yes.

 

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

And was The Riddler the reporter's son, or just a completely unconnected guy who figured it out as a forenaic accountant? 

 

I think he was a random pissed off orphan from the abandoned orphanage.

 

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

And did he know Batman was Bruce Wayne or not? I thought he didn't, but then he started singing Ave Maria... 

 

I thought he didn't know, but now suspect it's left for the viewer to decide, since there was that whole little speech about people missing the point when they want to know who's under the mask.

[Mr. Who 919]

I definitively thought he knew that Batman was Bruce Wayne, after he taunted Batman in the prison scene, when watching the movie but now I’m less sure. But why would he do that if he didn’t know?

 

If I’m not mistaken, the actor who plays the Frensh soldier in Dunkirk is the Joker actor at the end.

[badbu 123]

[crocodile 8,000]

Oh he's in Eternals too. Couldn't tell who it was.

 

The Wayne identity thing was almost certainly meant to be ambiguous. Think if I go by a certain popular Batman storyline, he probably does know.

 

It felt bit long and all of us enjoyed it. But we were all tired as well after a long day so it might have felt its length. But you could certainly trim a bit of it off. Not huge chunks but certain small portions of scenes etc.

 

One thing I find funny is that you make it really dark and adult and yet it shies away from R-rating. Part of me felt this was tad disingenuous, especially after the success of films like Deadpool, Logan or Joker. Not that I need gore but you clearly won't take kids to see this anyway.

 

Overall, I really liked it. Some of the best Batman stories are pure detective-focused ones. In fact my absolutely favourite one (Dark Knight, Dark City) also revolves around a particularly dark Riddler mystery. 

 

The film felt like a very good take on the character but there was nothing particularly brilliant about it. Will watch it again and see where I stand. Had the same feeling with the first two Nolan ones, to be honest. I wonder how will it play the second time? Will it make it more engrossing or will it completely fall flat now? We shall see.

 

And, again, Giacchino's music works very well. Like I said it would based on previous collaborations with Matt Reeves. I can understand what people mean about composition and stuff. But there's something about the simplicity of core ideas that helps with this dense (bit overwrought?) story.

 

Karol - who just realised Nolan movies are now...the lighthearted ones? 😆

[Arpy 4,145]

I loved this film, in some aspects I like it more than Nolan's films and some of that has to do with this younger Wayne and him almost still learning the ropes as to who he is and how he should act - the end of the film certainly sees him feel like a hero for the first time. As I thought it would, Giacchino's score is a perfect fit for this film, and I was really invested in it as the film progressed. There's a neat moment at the beginning of the funeral scene where Bruce arrives and the music shifts from his theme to Catwoman's and there's a bit of interplay between their themes throughout the film.

 

[Jay 37,346]

[crocodile 8,000]

Can't say it was the most nourishing movie out there bit it was certainly noirishing.

 

Karol

[Taikomochi 1,136]

Matt Reeves actually knows how to direct action scenes in a coherent way, unlike Nolan, and that’s coming from someone who liked at least one of the Nolan films overall better than this one. That Batmobile chase scene slapped. 

[Hurmm 91]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Ironically the narration by Batman at the start and end sounded almost exactly like something that Rorschach would narrate. Specifically it sounded so much like Jackie Earle Haley from Snyder's movie and took me very much out of the film. 

 

I liked the film overall, and it started off really strong with a dark, brooding murder mystery that was closer to Seven than a superhero movie. But as it developed I found that the central plotline about informants in crime syndicates and corrupt politicians to be quite...boring. The mystery itself just didn't amount to much, to me anyway. 

 

The protracted climax was the worst part, and tonally it felt very similar to Nolan's TDK climax as well. TDK's climax was already the worst part of that movie, but to tack this on for a 3hour movie here felt like a grind for me. 

 

The one good action sequence involved the batmobile – I would say it was framed in an ostentatious but extremely cool manner, but the sense of geography and continuity was lacking. Perhaps that was part of Reeves' intended aesthetic. 

 

Score sounded fine in the movie but probably not worth a standalone listen. 

[Romão 2,274]

8 hours ago, Hurmm said:

 

Ironically the narration by Batman at the start and end sounded almost exactly like something that Rorschach would narrate. Specifically it sounded so much like Jackie Earle Haley from Snyder's movie and took me very much out of the film. 

 

I liked the film overall, and it started off really strong with a dark, brooding murder mystery that was closer to Seven than a superhero movie. But as it developed I found that the central plotline about informants in crime syndicates and corrupt politicians to be quite...boring. The mystery itself just didn't amount to much, to me anyway. 

 

The protracted climax was the worst part, and tonally it felt very similar to Nolan's TDK climax as well. TDK's climax was already the worst part of that movie, but to tack this on for a 3hour movie here felt like a grind for me. 

 

The one good action sequence involved the batmobile – I would say it was framed in an ostentatious but extremely cool manner, but the sense of geography and continuity was lacking. Perhaps that was part of Reeves' intended aesthetic. 

 

Score sounded fine in the movie but probably not worth a standalone listen. 

 

I agree pretty much 100%.

 

The movie is a bit frustrating, as the visual presentation of the character and the world was so strong and sucessfull. Those first 20 minutes or so worked really, really well. Even that view of the "Gotham Times Square", as it were, suggested a city of huge skyscrappers separated by really narrow streets, that looked almost like an American metropolis laid over a european medieval groundplan. It feel really immersive and unique.

 

And as for Batman himself, although I don't think Pattinson is particularly tall, he really had a commanding figure whenever he was surrounded by other people. The way he walked, his body language, the voice the costume itself, I've never seen Batman so successfully realized in live-action. Easily, in my view, the best Batman we've seen in movies thus far.

 

But I do wish the masks in this movie actually meant something. There was only Selina Kyle in this, no Catwoman to be seen. And although I know in the comics she's often portrayed as using the costume merely as disguise, I still think she would be a more interesting character if the costume allowed her to express a side of her personality she wouldn't normally express. Embrace the "Catwoman" character, go a bit over the top with it, realism be damned. Here, she's just Selina, with a very ineficient disguise that barely hints at the Catwoman iconography, as if embarassed of its pulpy origins.  Besides, the character is fairly inconsequential to overall story.

 

Speaking of the meaning of masks, Pattinson is Batman throughout the whole movie, whether in costume or not. There was no Bruce Wayne in this. And the relationship with Alfred suffers from this. It's distant, cold, almost resentfull. I suppose they will develop it further in the future, but it just felt off here, although I'm certain Serkis has all the makings of a great Alfred.

 

I love the choice of Jeffrey Wright as Gordon, but yet again, the character felt really underdeveloped and someone who is constantly behind what's happening. He never figures out on his own who the crocked cops are, or who's really pulling the strings. He just leans on Batman to do his work. He was much more a means to an end for Batman to have access to crime scenes than an actual partner, on equal footing, in their joint crusade against crime and corruption. As I've said before, he lacked agency, and as good as the casting is, in here he's more reminiscent of the Pat Hingle Gordon of the Burton films than the Oldman Gordon from the The Dark Knight Trilogy.

 

Paul Dano was doing the same Paul Dano thing he did in movies like Prisoners or There Will Be Blood, with a bit of the Zodiac killer thrown in. He's not really the Riddler. When he was cast, it suggested a really obvious aproach to the character, and for being so obvious, I thought this meant they would go in a radically different direction. Alas, they took the exact same route you would expect when casting someone like Dano in this role. It's not that he gives a bad performance, but simply a very predictable one.

 

The plot promises a lot more than it can deliver and the story is easily the weakest part, as most characters really are very standard tropes with very little development throughout. Which is a shame, because I really think the casting was pretty much spot on for this.

 

It might sound like I did not enjoy this movie and that I'm coming across as too harsh. But the elements this movie did get right were done in such a pitch perfect, spectacular way, it really is frustrating not seeing the other elements living up to this standard. Those first 20 minutes or so are surely among the best of what has been done with Batman in live action, ever. It looks amazing. It's got a great cast. It establishes a fascinating visual language and the world building is, at times, quite stunning. I hope they have a better story, a better plot and better characters in the next outing. The potential is all there.

 

If you took this vision of Gotham City and the visual realization of Batman and put it into The Dark Knight, you'd have the perfect Batman movie.

 

 

[Edmilson 7,432]

Haven't watched the movie yet but I'll just leave this thing here :

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,477]

9 hours ago, Hurmm said:

 

Ironically the narration by Batman at the start and end sounded almost exactly like something that Rorschach would narrate.

 

Brilliant comparison.  That's the thought I had too. 

[Hurmm 91]

The realization of this version of Gotham and this version of Batman on a large screen is still something I applaud though. The look of Gotham is incredible – a cross of the Seven and Blade Runner. For all the praised heaped on Nolan's movies, his Gotham looked no different from a generic and sterile city. 

[Anthony 572]

I thought it was great. Can't claim to have ever read a Batman comic, or seen movies other than Nolan's and the first Tim Burton one, but this felt like it took everything that worked from those and focused on doing all of those things really well.

 

The only thing I didn't like was the Joker teaser. I cannot picture anyone but Heath Ledger in that role. Just go with something else, please. Not another Joker plot.

 

On 05/03/2022 at 4:04 AM, Jay said:

Did he know Batman was Bruce Wayne or not? I thought he didn't, but then he started singing Ave Maria... 

 

My take of this scene was that Bruce thought that the Riddler knew to begin with. As he starts repeating "Bruce Wayne" over and over, Bruce looks at a security camera as if to go "shit, I'm about to be exposed". But later in the conversation, the Riddler says, "you and I got all of them, except for Bruce" which then came across as if he hadn't made the connection. It was never alluded to again, so my impression was that he didn't actually know.

[Jay 37,346]

Right, of course I clocked all that, but then after that he starts singing Ave Maria which I think it meant to make you think he does know. He knew the camera was running too, and maybe didn't want to expose him then and there. Well, that's one interpretation. 

[crocodile 8,000]

Box Office: ‘The Batman’ Scores $128 Million, Second-Biggest Pandemic Debut

 

$248.5 million worldwide.

 

Karol

[Anthony 572]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Right, of course I clocked all that, but then after that he starts singing Ave Maria which I think it meant to make you think he does know. He knew the camera was running too, and maybe didn't want to expose him then and there. Well, that's one interpretation. 

 

What was the significance of him singing? I thought he was just unhinged rather than it alluding to something?

[Jay 37,346]

Wasn't it part of the opera the Waynes were attending when they got murdered?

[Bespin 8,480]

According to my calculations the next Batman will be portrayed by Matt Damon (with a beard).

[Koray Savas 2,251]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Wasn't it part of the opera the Waynes were attending when they got murdered?

Is that ever mentioned in the film?

 

I think the proof that The Riddler doesn’t know is that the letter bomb is addressed to Bruce Wayne, but the fireproof clue is addressed to Batman. If he knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, he wouldn’t have addressed a riddle to his dead corpse, no?

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

I thought he did that to hurt Wayne personally by attacking Alfred

[crocodile 8,000]

16 hours ago, Jay said:

Right, of course I clocked all that, but then after that he starts singing Ave Maria which I think it meant to make you think he does know. He knew the camera was running too, and maybe didn't want to expose him then and there. Well, that's one interpretation. 

He starts singing it because it's his theme. 😄 Although the Giacchino version is in minor mode.

 

Karol

[Anthony 572]

5 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

I think the proof that The Riddler doesn’t know is that the letter bomb is addressed to Bruce Wayne, but the fireproof clue is addressed to Batman. If he knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, he wouldn’t have addressed a riddle to his dead corpse, no?

 

Yes good point. And I'll buy into that as it backs up my interpretation that he didn't know.

 

10 minutes ago, crocodile said:

He starts singing it because it's his theme. 😄 Although the Giacchino version is in minor mode.

 

Karol

 

Intentional or not, I hadn't noticed that, but that's pretty neat.

[leeallen01 2,136]

The Batman made me re-evaluate the Nolan Trilogy. While I love Ledger's Joker, I find myself judging the trilogy in a more negative way. For example, Batman Begins made Gotham a character, but TDK and TDKR erased that and Gotham was just Chicago and New York. Also Pattinson's Batman was far superior to anything I've seen before. His presence, realism and detective nature was just leagues ahead of Bale's Batman for example. Especially his fighting style and voice. Pattinson makes Bale's fight scenes and voice seem embarrassing. 

 

I don't understand the criticism for the lack of a playboy singular Bruce Wayne character for Pattinson either. The story was clearly about him being consumed by his Batman side and his lust for revenge. He isn't interested in being Bruce Wayne. But the finale of the film showed real growth as he understood that hope can be more powerful than fear and instead of being a force of terror, he will become a force of hope moving forward for the people of Gotham. Literally shown in that flare seen as he led the survivors to safety as they were initially scared to take his hand, but the boy showed courage and took his hand first. Great character growth.

 

There are things I didn't like though, the Joker scene was awful, but that didn't effect the plot at all, just felt pointless and "not another joker damn."

 

I also wasn't expecting a big CGI flooding disaster film at the end. It felt so grounded and brutal up to then, but turned into a more "here's the big hollywood set piece superhero action scene at the end that the studio ordered." It felt misplaced. 

 

Overall though, it was a great film. Pattinson was brilliant and Giacchino's score was sensational. Very clearly defined thematic pieces throughout. Batman's theme, Bruce's theme, Catwoman and the Riddler all very distinct and seperate. Extremely effective score.

 

 

[PrayodiBA 517]

^^ fully agree with some of the points above.

 

——

 

My review; overall, it’s a really good movie.

Some elements in this movie, I think, are the best of all Batman movies, such as:

1. The Batman himself. I never read the comic book, but I think this is the best portrayal. The development from Wayne to Batman is very seamless.  What i like the most about it is that Wayne create an “act” around this batman; which is a quiet ,serious character, very stiff, and “towering above the others”. You can feel every time he becomes Batman, he is very careful “to still be in character” and he loves doing it! (I mean you can imagine right? being a kid, acting inside the costume, having authority etc.)

As opposed to Nolan’s batman where both are like completely different character.

2. The batman costume. Gritty and grounded done right. It feels so organic, really fits the character (again as opposed to Nolan’s boxy and robot like approach)

3. The Gotham city, here it perfectly combines real city and fantasy-gothic element. What rather disappointing is it lacks establishing shots! ( I bet if it’s Villeneuve, you will have amazing establishing shots all around)

4. The cinematography, we can all agree that this the most beautiful batman movie, right?

 

But at the same time, there are still a lot of disappointing things to prevent this becoming a really great movie, such as:

1. The climax/action. We have to give an edge to Nolan in this department, the guy can really build suspense (I mean ,no denying he is master at it). 

As above has said, the climax feels really out of place. I don’t get the stake from it. I mean suddenly, it shows that Gotham has flood gates and is also at risk of getting flooded? Where are the foreshadowing of this? I mean you can gradually show through series of mentions/or cool establishing shots, to build the stake for the final act. And also on top of that, a truly redundant scheme from the Riddler.

It goes downhill from there. Clearly the worst part of the movie ( and we know who to blame for this…)

2. The villain conclusion, especially the Riddler. I knew from the get go that Paul Dano is the right guy to play this character, but somehow, after seeing him act without costume with batman in prison, i feel nothing (on borderline cringing). I dont know if it is because what he does is only giving “the exposition” for his not that great scheme… And don’t get me started at that forced “Joker” scene.

 

 

[Anthony 572]

The forced Joker scene was the only part of the movie I didn't like. The ending also wasn't the most exciting part of the film, but it did achieve what it needed to emotionally.

[Mephariel 451]

12 minutes ago, Anthony said:

The forced Joker scene was the only part of the movie I didn't like. The ending also wasn't the most exciting part of the film, but it did achieve what it needed to emotionally.

 

My biggest issue with it is that it is basically yet another iteration of TDK and Joker. The villain got captured or is defeated, but he has a grand scheme and that is basically to corrupt good people to do bad things. This is the third iteration of that story. I really like The Batman, but it borrows heavily from films that came before: Joker, TDK, Seven, and Penguin is straight out of a Scorsese film. 

[Jay 37,346]

Reeves confirms the guy at the end is The Joker

 

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/the-batman-ending-joker-barry-keoghan-matt-reeves-1235196812/

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I mean it was obvious. Didn’t need confirming. I don’t think we need another iteration of that character. What drew me to this film is that The Riddler and Penguin would finally get the Nolan treatment. I’d be down for a proper adaptation of Mr. Freeze. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

I have no idea about the comics, but I do listen to some geek podcasts etc and I think they're going with Hush from what I hear. Reeves said he'd love to do Hush and also I remember seeing the word Hush on a screen in the film. 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

On 5/3/2022 at 4:26 AM, crocodile said:

The Wayne identity thing was almost certainly meant to be ambiguous. Think if I go by a certain popular Batman storyline, he probably does know.

Are you familiar with the comics? The entire Wayne-Falcone and Bruce-Selina subplots in this movie are straight out of the Telltale video game. Do you know if those story beats are just taken from one of the comics?

[Romão 2,274]

They are taken, from the most part, from The Long Halloween

 

This is the moment where young Bruce witnesses his father operating on Falcone in Wayne Manor:

 

The next page in the same scene:

 

 

The moment it is revealed Selina Kyle is Falcone's daughter, in Dark Victory, the sequel to The Long Halloween (Tim Sale is absolutely my favorite Batman artist. I wish we had an animated movie fully based on his artwork):

 

 

The scene in Batman: Year One, which introduces a lof the mobsters featured in The Long Halloween , when Selina scratches Falcone's face (although in here, it was way before she knew he was her father). The Long Halloween is a sequel, of sort, to Batman Year One, although the creative team and the overall aesthetic are quite different:

 

[badbu 123]

I have watched all the batman films again.

For me the new batman is definitely not as good as the ones by chris nolan and tim burton.

 

1. Batman Begins

2. The Dark Knight Rises / The Dark Knight

3. Batman Returns

4. Batman 89

5. The Batman

6. Batman Forever

7. Batman & Robin 

 

Score:

1. Batman Begins / The Dark Knight Rises

2. Batman Returns

3. Batman & Robin 

[crocodile 8,000]

You, see I re-watched the Schumacher films on 4K Blu-ray not long ago and what struck me is that Batman Forever is actually a worse film of the two. Sure, it has some elements that recall Burton and Val Kilmer makes a more brooding bat. But almost nothing in this film makes any sense. The middle act has no coherence at all, character beats are missing, tone keeps changing drastically, pacing is off. And there's no logic to anything. It's just a bloody mess all over and, clearly, a victim of multiple rewrites and restructuring. Batman & Robin, for all its excess and camp, at least stays consistent within its own world and tells some kind of coherent (if simplistic) story with clear (if simplistic) character arcs.

 

And yes, I am being serious.

 

God forgive me.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,346]

There's an extended cut of Batman Forever available somewhere.  Apparently shortly before its release a ton of stuff got sliced out so that's why the theatrical version is missing character beats and stuff

[crocodile 8,000]

I know. All of that stuff was also featured in the novelisation that came out at the time. And yes, all of that stuff was essential. But it would have made the film even more schizophrenic.

 

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

5 hours ago, crocodile said:

You, see I re-watched the Schumacher films on 4K Blu-ray not long ago and what struck me is that Batman Forever is actually a worse film of the two. Sure, it has some elements that recall Burton and Val Kilmer makes a more brooding bat. But almost nothing in this film makes any sense. The middle act has no coherence at all, character beats are missing, tone keeps changing drastically, pacing is off. And there's no logic to anything. It's just a bloody mess all over and, clearly, a victim of multiple rewrites and restructuring. Batman & Robin, for all its excess and camp, at least stays consistent within its own world and tells some kind of coherent (if simplistic) story with clear (if simplistic) character arcs.

 

And yes, I am being serious.

 

God forgive me.

 

Karol

 

 

I get what your saying, but I still think the more serious beats in Batman Forever really work, as inconsistent and tone shattering as they are. And I still think Val Kilmer could be the best Batman/Bruce Wayne combo ever, if only he was given better material to work with.

 

It's still a bad movie. But the cinematography is very good and what a score...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The Schumacher movies are both just really fun to watch.  One of those great campy experiences where you're never sure if you laughing at or with the movie.  I take issue with anyone who says you can't really like the Batman character if you don't want it to be this super-serious wannabe art-film.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I’m down for another Adam West style Batman.

 

The Batman just feels like more Nolan. 

[Edmilson 7,432]

On 10/03/2022 at 5:29 AM, crocodile said:

You, see I re-watched the Schumacher films on 4K Blu-ray not long ago and what struck me is that Batman Forever is actually a worse film of the two. Sure, it has some elements that recall Burton and Val Kilmer makes a more brooding bat. But almost nothing in this film makes any sense. The middle act has no coherence at all, character beats are missing, tone keeps changing drastically, pacing is off. And there's no logic to anything. It's just a bloody mess all over and, clearly, a victim of multiple rewrites and restructuring. Batman & Robin, for all its excess and camp, at least stays consistent within its own world and tells some kind of coherent (if simplistic) story with clear (if simplistic) character arcs.

 

Agreed, I always thought Forever was worse (and more boring) than B&R.

 

As for the Matt Reeves movie, I had the feeling that it is set on the same universe as the 2019 Joker. Both of these movies' vision of Gotham and their citizens (specially how the elite and the less fortunate interact) are very similar, quite complementary. I know Pattinson's Batman won't fight Phoenix's Joker, but the two movies still make an interesting duo. 

 

Speaking of Joker, I hope Reeves won't use him until the third or fourth movie in the franchise. Otherwise he'd be just remaking TDK.

[Richard Penna 3,683]

On 07/03/2022 at 4:46 AM, Koray Savas said:

Is that ever mentioned in the film?

 

I think the proof that The Riddler doesn’t know is that the letter bomb is addressed to Bruce Wayne, but the fireproof clue is addressed to Batman. If he knew Bruce Wayne was Batman, he wouldn’t have addressed a riddle to his dead corpse, no?

 

I was somewhat confused by the letter bomb - whether he really intended Alfred to die (and just a pitch meeting-worth coincidence) or he was targetting Wayne, and whether he really knew he's Batman.

 

Then the inevitable 'twist' that he'd only injured Alfred... just didn't sit right with me. Felt like a way to build some drama for a few minutes, to lead onto not a lot.

 

Overall, the direction, production design of Gotham, the performances, and to some extent, the score, were all excellent, and I enjoyed it. I was left just a bit hollow by the plot, and could've done without the extended self-reflective sermon at the end.

[Jay 37,346]

6 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I was somewhat confused by the letter bomb - whether he really intended Alfred to die (and just a pitch meeting-worth coincidence) or he was targetting Wayne, and whether he really knew he's Batman.

 

He was attempting to kill Bruce Wayne, and left a letter for The Batman behind like he did for all his other murders.  He didn't know Alfred would open up the letter instead of Bruce.

He doesn't know Bruce Wayne is Batman.  I was confused about the Ave Maria part but was just wrong.

[Anthony 572]

Some observations after seeing the movie a 2nd time:

 

- There's a surprising amount of connective music that's still unreleased, though only a couple of cues are signficant.

 

- The film version of Crossing The Feline is (possibly) longer and some instrument layers have been stripped back.

 

- I don't think the dissonant ending of Highway To The Anger Zone is in the movie. There's music as the Batmobile roars through the explosion, but it's different to this.

 

- There are two fantastic unreleased cues that play back to back in the film - the first when Batman saves Catwoman from being choked by Falcone and they lead him out of the club (excellent rendition of the Catwoman theme), and then another immediately after as Batman rapells into and searches for the Riddler in the apartment.

 

- The Riddler definitely does NOT know Bruce is Batman - the music is the giveaway. During that scene in Arkham, the music it is building tension toward that moment when the Riddler says "we got all of them, you and I, all of them except Wayne" and Giacchino cuts off the music at that moment deliberately. It's not left open to interpretation. The whole point of that scene is to make you think he knows to begin with (hence the shot of the CCTV camera as if Bruce is worried he's about to be outed).

 

- There is a nice little edit of two cues at the very start of the credits - the end of Escaped Crusader followed by the end of Are You A Kenzie Or A Can't-zie? These alone (without their dull first halves) make a nice track at the end of the album followed by the sonata. It's possible to make an edit without too much difficulty, plus it means I've managed to include the end of the latter track in my playlist (I'd otherwise omitted it).

 

- While it's not my favourite album, I still think this is Giacchino's best score in terms of how effective it is in the movie.

[crocodile 8,000]

I also watched the film the second time. It is enjoyable but I have to say the whole segment between Alfred's accident and Selina's revenge really slows it down. I get why it's there but with film of this length you can feel some fatigue at that point even if they really try to milk the ending. It does pick up again after that though. You sort if can't trim it down much because it all comnects some dots but I suppose you could lose some bits and pieces here and there.

 

Karol

[Mephariel 451]

On 10/03/2022 at 7:15 AM, Disco Stu said:

The Schumacher movies are both just really fun to watch.  One of those great campy experiences where you're never sure if you laughing at or with the movie.  I take issue with anyone who says you can't really like the Batman character if you don't want it to be this super-serious wannabe art-film.

 

Batman Forever has some resemblance of a movie with respectable direction and thoughtfulness. The love story between Kilmer and Kidman aren't half bad. But please don't act like Batman & Robin is anything but trash. George Clooney as Batman is just not believable. And Arnold as Mr. Freeze...don't even...

 

Compared to Nolan's efforts and Reeves' effort, Schumacher's films are amateur trash. I mean, you touch on it. Schumacher wanted to make great campy experiences. Nolan and Reeves wanted to make great films. And it shows.  

[HunterTech 989]

I find the statement that Schumacher only wanted to make campy experiences near offensive, knowing full well that his dream to make a Year One esque Batman movie was completely tampered by WB's aim to escape from anything resembling Burton's movies. His filmography is enough to show that he had the chops to make something much more substantive, but alas had to adhere to studio demands (moreso by the time of B&R).

The man is dead, and the character has had a long enough history to where grimdark isn't the only way he's succeeded. Just let go of your biases already.

[Edmilson 7,432]

Considering all that talk about Gotham being controlled by a small group of powerful men, I was kinda expecting they'd introduce the Court of Owls. It'd be a much more interesting plot for the sequel than another Bat vs Joker story. 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

The only reason I would bring back the Joker would be to do The War of Jokes and Riddles  (which seems to be the plan) but even by doing that I would first do The Court of Owls

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I believe Reeves has already stated that he never intended to set up The Joker as a sequel villain, just to show that this world is established. He had other scenes that were cut to improve the flow of the film. Joker in this film was intended to be someone Batman would interview along the way to get an idea of how a psychopath thinks to predict Riddlers next move.