SPOILER TALK: The Batman (2022)

[Jay 37,339]

Just now, Koray Savas said:

Joker in this film was intended to be someone Batman would interview along the way to get an idea of how a psychopath thinks to predict Riddlers next move. 

 

Source?

[Romão 2,274]

11 hours ago, HunterTech said:

I find the statement that Schumacher only wanted to make campy experiences near offensive, knowing full well that his dream to make a Year One esque Batman movie was completely tampered by WB's aim to escape from anything resembling Burton's movies. His filmography is enough to show that he had the chops to make something much more substantive, but alas had to adhere to studio demands (moreso by the time of B&R).

The man is dead, and the character has had a long enough history to where grimdark isn't the only way he's succeeded. Just let go of your biases already.

 

 

Batman Forever, for all its faults, it's an extremely well shot film, I find. Cleary done by someone with technical chops

[Disco Stu 15,495]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Source?

This article you shared lol. 

On 7/3/2022 at 11:39 AM, Jay said:

Reeves confirms the guy at the end of The Joker

 

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/the-batman-ending-joker-barry-keoghan-matt-reeves-1235196812/

 

[Anthony 572]

Since that scene was cut, the remaining Joker scene just felt like its only purpose was setting up a sequel. It's the only scene I really don't like because it just feels so cynical. If the plan is to NOT use the Joker in the next film (please don't), then it's just another reason why this scene was pointless.

[Jay 37,339]

2 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

This article you shared lol. 

 

 

Haha! Thanks, I only read the first couple paragraphs and never finished. Now that I've read the whole article, it's really interesting! I'd be down for an extended cut on home video/streaming with his first scene restored.

[JNHFan2000 2,957]

In this video Reeves talks about the scene that was cut and that they will release it at some point.

 

 

[Jay 37,339]

Nice

[Van_Etten 111]

Joker deleted scene.

 

 

[Bespin 8,480]

Another Joker who does'nt fit with the expected theatrical and clownesque exhuberance of the character.

 

The Joker is not just a mad and wild character... he's a clown, you have to include some characteristics of the clown.

 

It must be a personage who, at the same time, is ridiculous yet outstanding, deformed yet witty.

[Jay 37,339]

Is there Giacchino music used in it?

[Anthony 572]

25 minutes ago, Jay said:

Is there Giacchino music used in it?

 

Yes, but it's just more variations of the Riddler music. Don't know if it's from another part of the score or if it was specifically written and recorded for this scene before it got cut. It's not something you'd want to listen to away from the film.

 

29 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Another Joker who does'nt fit with the expected theatrical and clownesque exhuberance of the character.

 

The Joker is not just a mad and wild character... he's a clown, you have to include some characteristics of the clown.

 

Yeah, impressive makeup, but it comes across as another generic madman villain. The laugh just comes across as stupid to me (which is why I also didn't really like the scene they left in either).

 

The unpredictability of Heath Leger's character was what made him so interesting...the version in The Batman, not so much.

[Bespin 8,480]

22 minutes ago, Anthony said:

The unpredictability of Heath Leger's character was what made him so interesting...the version in The Batman, not so much.

 

Interesting, but yet lacking something of the "Joker" as a clown. He definitely didn't have the charisma of the character.

[crocodile 8,000]

I sort of hope the Joker in this series remains a background character. This is the 4th live action iteration of the character in the past 14 years and perhaos it feel bit, well, tired. Many other things to explore.

 

Karol

[Bespin 8,480]

I still wait for a Batman film with Ma Parker as the main villain.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

Nah bring back Mister Freeze and his freezy puns

[Romão 2,274]

Joker never needed to be grotesque to be scary

[Groovygoth666 663]

Watched this a couple of weeks ago. Overall I really enjoyed it, my only criticism is the Riddler going after Bruce and the whole third act really felt like it was there because the studio mandated a big action finale. I get that Bruce needs to learn that just being vengeance isn't enough and as Batman he can be more, but it comes at the expense of logic. Also how is the Penguin not in prison?!

 

As for a sequel, Court of Owls would definitely be more interesting, much rather see some villains that haven't been done on film before rushing to the Joker.

[crocodile 8,000]

Having seen the film three times, I can say that I definitely like it. But I don't love it. Why would I see it multiple times then, you ask? Well, it's more about the cool audio/visual experience that Matt Reeves serves us. It's quite a feast. Plus my limitless cinema membership (just little above the price of one ticket) allows me to treat Odeon almost as my big home cinema. 

 

The first half of the film is very cool. I dig the Fincherian mood and the setup. But about halfway through, it loses a bit of its steam. As the twists and personal revelations pile up on top of each other, I start to feel bit restless. And yes, it does all work dramatically and thematically but I feel at that point you sort of see it coming and the film is no longer ahead of you. It comes with the mass audience aspect of course as the story needs to constantly explain itself which makes it frustrating for someone who can keep up. It's bit too drawn out. Having said that, the final sequence is quite good.

 

But there's this nagging feeling that it doesn't quite transcend its influences. Like The Dark Knight was almost a carbon copy of Heat, this is a mix of David Fincher thriller with Taxi Driver and Watchmen. But while Nolan managed to hit the zeitgeist and make the stylistic link something quite fresh, it does not quite happen here. It also didn't happen with Joker a couple of years ago. I have the same response to Matt Reeves' latest that I have to Denis Villeneuve films (particularly Dune). They are gorgeous to look out, sound fantastic and create very immersive world. But there's also some part of me that feels they're often awfully pretentious and don't really offer as much nourishment to the brain as they appear to at first glance. Like Alan Moore once pointed out, I am not sure these characters were meant to carry that much weight.

 

In any case, it should make a nice 4K Blu-ray. But I feel, just like Dune, my interest in the film starts to shift towards the behind-the-scenes aspects rather than the actual story portrayed on screen. Not sure that is good...

 

One thing I will point out though the film does better than any other Batman movie out there. Rob Pattinson looks absolutely terrific in the suit. He has really the presence and intensity that many other actors lacked. You can really tell this outfit really transforms him into something quite intimidating. On the flipside, Bale was the best Bruce Wayne. But I have no doubt Pattinson could pull this off as well in another movie. There was no time for this side of the character here really.

 

On a more controversial note, I find Giacchino's score to be one of his finest to date. One of the things that certainly helps is that it doesn't have that awful dry mix. It joins the two Apes scores (also done for Matt Reeves) as the best sounding score in his catalogue. The music works great in the film and on album. It just gets better each time.

 

Karol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

On 25/03/2022 at 1:21 PM, May the Force be with You said:

Nah bring back Mister Freeze and his freezy puns

Hey! Cool it.

[Jay 37,339]

11 hours ago, crocodile said:

The Dark Knight was almost a carbon copy of Heat

 

what

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Just the prologue. 

[crocodile 8,000]

The entire setting. You have a restaurant meeting in Heat and interrogation cell in TDK. The whole aesthetic of the film very very similar. Even the Joker's theme sounds a bit like Goldenthal's score.

 

And YES, I am exaggerating. 

 

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

11 hours ago, crocodile said:

The entire setting. You have a restaurant meeting in Heat and interrogation cell in TDK. The whole aesthetic of the film very very similar. Even the Joker's theme sounds a bit like Goldenthal's score.

 

And YES, I am exaggerating. 

 

Karol

 

Heat does have a much much better score. One of the very best of the 90's

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

1 hour ago, Romão said:

 

Heat does have a much much better score. One of the very best of the 90's

...as is the film.

[Edmilson 7,426]

‘The Batman 2’ Set at Warner Bros., Matt Reeves Returning to Direct Sequel with Robert Pattinson

[Jay 37,339]

I will enjoy watching that motion picture

[badbu 123]

no new news. Matt has already confirmed months ago that he makes three movies

[GerateWohl 4,351]

Haven't seen the movie yet. But from the trailers it looks to me rather like a Batman/The Crow mesh-up.

As if they adapted the aesthetics of Alex Proyas masterpiece a lot. Could that be the case?

[badbu 123]

its a solid film but not up to nolan's triology

[Sweeping Strings 2,352]

A satire page I follow on Facebook posted 'Man books sight and hearing tests after seeing The Batman' the other day, lol. 

[Goldfinger 59]

11 hours ago, badbu said:

its a solid film but not up to nolan's triology

 

Judging it based off Nolan's trilogy, its better than 2/3 of the films in my opinion.

 

Begins is full of a lot of cheesy "superhero" stuff that plagued those early 00s films and the fight scenes were poorly shot and composed.

 

Rises has a plot full of holes and some terribly on the nose and trite dialogue, along with some very questionable acting performances. The action scenes themselves are not terribly impressive upon rewatches.

 

TDK is a great film, arguably one of the best of the last 20 years.  Is Reeves' film better?  I dunno, but for me, they're very close in terms of quality.  Both have issues which I have qualms over, but overall don't hurt my enjoyment of the films.  I love the more detective based approach that the film took and I am incredibly optimistic what a future film might look at now that Reeves has proven himself capable of the franchise.

 

 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

4 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

Begins is full of a lot of cheesy "superhero" stuff that plagued those early 00s films

Like what?

 

5 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

Rises has a plot full of holes and some terribly on the nose and trite dialogue, along with some very questionable acting performances. The action scenes themselves are not terribly impressive upon rewatches.

I don’t necessarily disagree with these points (mostly), but I fail to see how The Batman does any of this much better than TDKR.

 

5 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

TDK is a great film, arguably one of the best of the last 20 years.  Is Reeves' film better?  I dunno, but for me, they're very close in terms of quality.

Well that’s just a stupid thing to say.

 

5 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

I love the more detective based approach that the film took

Fans of Reeves’ film all say this and to be fair, this is the first Batman film to emphasize the detective side of the character. That said, it’s not like this movie was a particularly good detective film. It’s very average.

[Edmilson 7,426]

I love Begins and like TDK, but I thought TDKR was utter poo poo, a horrible script hidden beneath some decent directing and cinematography. And, of course, the Snyder movies were pure garbage, no matter how hard the insufferable trolls on Twitter will try to tell you otherwise.

 

So yeah, The Batman was the best live action Batman film since 2008.

[bored 309]

Just saw it recently, it's perfectly fine to me. It doesn't do anything better than the Nolan films in my opinion besides the detective aspect and the costume. I honestly phased out throughout most of the car chase because I was bored, and all of a sudden Penguin was laughing at a truck exploding and I thought Batman caused the explosion for a second. 

 

Catwoman was fine, though I definitely enjoyed her character more in TDKR. Her connection to Falcone adds nothing but a tired "conquering past trauma" plotline that I don't think benefits her character that much. It feels more like filler, much like this connection's inclusion in that awful "Batman: The Long Halloween" animated adaptation.

 

Riddler was quite frankly just laughable and lame. The incel / social media angle is something that I think is going to be extremely dated pretty quickly, and it felt like a really weak commentary on movements like that. He was also often indistinguishable from the Joker for me, with his weird giggling and laughing, along with his elaborate riddles reminding me of Joker's chess-like double meaning, unpredictable moves in The Dark Knight and comic stories like "The Laughing Fish".

 

The only thing that distinguishes Nigma is the more saw-like aspect (which was done better and more interestingly in Arkham City), and his encoded messages. His first message he sends to the news though seems almost exactly the same beat for beat to Joker's initial message on the news in TDK, but I guess we're calling that an homage now. I also ran into a debate with my friends whether his weird fit and Ave Maria singing in the interrogation scene was supposed to be funny or not. Either way, I didn't find it funny or threatening, just embarrassing. 

 

Pattinson as Batman was fine. He's no Kevin Conroy from The Animated Series, or Batman from Arkham Asylum, City, and Origins, but I believe him enough as Batman to take him seriously most of the time. His noir narration felt kind of ham-fisted and silly to me though. I also find his Batman voice way too similar to Christian Bale's more subtle, raspy whisper in Batman Begins (besides that one stupid interrogation scene in BB).

 

His edgy, ultra-brooding Bruce Wayne did nothing for me. I guess it's supposed to set up a more mature, and better at socializing Bruce Wayne in the next two films, but it doesn't really change the fact that I don't find him interesting here. Alfred was there. The Thomas Wayne / Falcone connection I found annoying and unnecessary. It turns a tragic crime of passion brought on by the very people the Waynes were trying to help, into a sleazy mob dealing gone sour. I know Thomas only wanted to "scare" the journalist, but making a deal with a mobster is just not something I ever want to associate with the Waynes' characters. It makes them more morally grey, sure, but it doesn't make them more interesting to me. 

 

Penguin was good. Falcone himself was played well. I'm glad the Joker scene was deleted. The score was non-descript. I noticed the Bruce Wayne theme but don't remember it, I don't remember Catwoman's theme, Riddler's Ave Maria theme was funny because I knew it was supposed to be creepy and foreshadowing but it wasn't for me, and the two-note motif worked fine but is still not that interesting. 

 

Apologies for the review-like length, but overall I found this film and its story to be better than all of the original 4 Batman films, and better than Batman: Arkham Knight, but not as good as the Nolan movies and the first 3 Batman: Arkham games. Maybe I'd call it on-par with The Dark Knight Rises. I just feel it's trying too hard to be the ultimate dark and edgy Batman, and the result feels more over-the-top, over-compensation than an authentic Batman story. 

[Jay 37,339]

26 minutes ago, superultramegaa said:

Apologies for the review-like length,

 

Never apologize for something like that. We need more posts like this around here! 

[Goldfinger 59]

15 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Like what?

 

 

Begins has a lot of jokey comments/gags that for me haven't aged well.  Gordon's comments like "I gotta get me one of those" or much of his comments during the Batmobile scene at the end highlight this.  Mixed with action scenes you can barely see half the time because they're shot so close and edited even worse, it's definitely fallen down on my appreciation scale as time has progressed.

 

 

[bored 309]

Action scenes aren't exactly my highest priority in a Batman film, especially when I can just play a video game that gives me better ones than any movie ever can, but I do agree that Begins has the worst action out of the modern Batman films. I think it works in the stealth scene by the docks, as it's supposed to be confusing and bewildering, but not for the rest of them. 

 

59 minutes ago, Goldfinger said:

Begins has a lot of jokey comments/gags that for me haven't aged well.  Gordon's comments like "I gotta get me one of those" or much of his comments during the Batmobile scene at the end highlight this.

I honestly just find those funny still. I think gags like those help balance the tone, and give the movie a bit more life without going full Marvel and caving in its whole tone in favor of jokes, or going The Batman and being so self-serious that it makes it feel like it's over-compensating. 

[Jay 37,339]

“The Batman Part II” has been postponed a year, from Oct. 3, 2025 to Oct. 2, 2026.

[Bespin 8,480]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

“The Batman Part II” has been postponed a year, from Oct. 3, 2025 to Oct. 2, 2026.

 

Thanks @Jay, we all forgot about that reboot starring... what's his name... the guy from the Twilight movies!

[Edmilson 7,426]

Four years and seven months after the first one. This is a bigger waiting time than between The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises (which was released exactly four years after its predecessor). 

 

Aside from this, any Batman movie from the same series (meaning, not counting reboots) before that came out three years after its predecessor:

 

80s/90s series:

 

Batman (June 1989) -> Batman Returns (June 1992) - 3 years

Batman Returns (June 1992) -> Batman Forever (June 1995) - 2 years

Batman Forever (June 1995) - 3 years -> Batman & Robin (June 1997) - 3 years

 

Bale/Nolan trilogy:

 

Batman Begins (June 2005) -> The Dark Knight (July 2008) - 3 years 1 month

The Dark Knight (July 2008) -> The Dark Knight Rises (July 2012) - 4 years

 

Batfleck didn't have any solo movies, but if you count his movies, then it's 1 year 8 months between Batman v Superman and Justice League and, huh, almost 6 years between that and The Flash.

 

Pattinson/Reevs trilogy

 

The Batman (March 2022) -> The Batman: Part 2 (October 2026) - 4 years 7 months

[Jurassic Shark 12,053]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Batman Forever (June 1995) -> Batman & Robin (June 1997) - 2 years

 

Fixed.

[Edmilson 7,426]

14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Fixed.

Specifically 735 days or 105 weeks or 24 months or 2 years and 4 days.

[badbu 123]

Jesus…