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HOUSE OF THE DRAGON


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22 hours ago, Edmilson said:

LOL

 

 

First the Starbucks on GOT, now this.

 

When in the story did they mention that he's missing fingers? I've watched the first three episodes with subtitles and don't remember seeing it. 

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1 hour ago, Positivatee said:

 

When in the story did they mention that he's missing fingers? I've watched the first three episodes with subtitles and don't remember seeing it. 

 

In episode 3 when Allicent come to talk to him and he's sitting by the fire, it is revealed he is missing 2 fingers on his left hand.  I'm surprised you didn't notice it!

 

Viserys' fingers : r/HouseOfTheDragon

 

On 05/09/2022 at 4:23 AM, JNHFan2000 said:

Now that we're 2 years later

 

It's 3 years later.  The kid is 2, but he was conceived around 9 months before that, right?

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5 hours ago, Jay said:

 

In episode 3 when Allicent come to talk to him and he's sitting by the fire, it is revealed he is missing 2 fingers on his left hand.  I'm surprised you didn't notice it!

 

Viserys' fingers : r/HouseOfTheDragon

 

 

It's 3 years later.  The kid is 2, but he was conceived around 9 months before that, right?


I guess the maggots didn’t work then

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9 hours ago, DarthDementous said:


I guess the maggots didn’t work then


Or they got a little too enthusiastic.

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Episode 1x4 King Of The Narrow Sea 

 

(aka The Sex Episode)

 

I have a lot of thoughts about this episode, because I feel it might me the strongest one yet and the one with the most impact. But I'm not talking about everything, because that would be way too long. One important thing: I love this show!! It's so well written, especially for Viserys this episode.

 

First things first, I don't remember feeling this akward while watching an episode of television. The 3 different sex scenes, to me, all had something that made me feel a bit weird. The Daemon & Rhaenyra sex scene is just twisted because it's incest. I will never be able to look at that without feeling weird, just like with Cersei & Jaime and Daenerys & Jon. But what really was kinda awful is that Daemon is very aware of what he's doing. And that makes him more fightening on different levels.

The scene between Rhaenyra & Sir Cole was the least akward of the 3. I minded this the least, but I still felt like something wasn't right. Can't quite put my finger on it.

The the scene between Viserys & Allicent. I hated this. From the moment Allicent said to the maid that the hour was quite late, and the maid said that it was. I knew why Viserys called her. Than the look on her face while he was just using her body was disturbing.

 

But that scene and the conversation later on between Viserys & Rhaenyra really showed the difference between men and women. And I thought that commentary was very strong.

Both Allicent & Rhaenyra are being used in a way that a men never would, only because they can get pregnant.

This makes them, in the eyes of a lot of men, les important and not the equal to men. Viserys even says to Rhaenyra that she doesn't have the same rights because she was born a woman.This I believe is a hard truth even still today and the way this show handles the topic is worthy of praise.

 

It is to the actors' credit that this episode worked so well. I felt Rhaenyra wasn't very likeable this episode, but it's because of Alcock's performance that she remains interesting to watch.

Same goes for Daemon and Viserys. Both are difficult characters the like, but because of Smith & Considine's performances there is just something about them.

Then lastly is Otto. I actually felt sympathy for Otto this episode. Don't exactly know what it is, because he still is kind of an ass. But Ifans had this vulnerability to him during in the scenes before/during he told Viserys about Rhaenyra and when he was let go of his duties as Hand. I'm hoping the character doesn't go away, because I actually quite like him. He brings a certain flair and political intrigue to the series, that I hope doesn't go away.

 

As for Djawadi's music. I like how he uses solo vocals a bit more, it reminds me of his score for Eternals. The drum heavy sequence of Rhaenyra in the city was great as well. The reprises of boh Rhaenyra's theme and Daemon's were great to hear. But overall the music this episode was a bit more downstated.

 

This is also very interesting to watch. (After each episode, but especially for this one)

 

 

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This episode was quite crazy! The relationship between Rhaenyra and Daemon is taking some interesting turns (a bit twisted, but interesting), and Rhaenyra's character is growing a lot with each episode, but also Alicent's character is becoming more sympathetic, especially after that scene with Viserys. Overall, a great episode, and Djawadi's music delivers yet again, with some great moments especially during Rhaenrya's night escape.

 

Anyway, here's my analysis of the soundtrack for the episode. Feel free to check it out and leave your thoughts!

 

My Analysis of the Soundtrack of House of Dragon - 1x04

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Sorry, I know ya'll have seen ep 4, but I haven't yet, and I've been too sick to elucidate any thoughts on ep 3 until now, so....

 

 

 

House of the Dragon 1x03 Second of His Name

 

Guys, this show is great, I love it!!

 

Viserys - Boy you really feel for this guy!  Troubled by the stepstones war, his daughter unwilling to consider marriage to anyone, his missing fingers, and now he's got all these people telling him who he should encourage Rhaenyra to marry.  No wonder he got so drunk he couldn't even stab a tied-up deer to death properly (though, you have to wonder if his injuries played a part in that as well).  I feel like Viserys knows at this point to never follow any of Otto's advice on these type of things, and I am liking Lyonel Strong and his council more and more every week!  His two sons seem interesting, too.  I liked the two-step process of him and Rhaenyra reconciling.  First the shouting match and he tries to get her to understand that people in their position have to marry for the good of the family and the realm, tradition and duty and all that.  And finally they really lovely scene at the end, where he promises her he won't replace her as heir.  It seems like he's really doing the best he can in a tough situation

 

Rhaenyra - Man, she was great in this episode. I really like that she is handling things by actually studying up on everything she needs to be the eventual ruler, and that outfit she had on while reading with dragon scales on it was badass.  The douchey Lannister dude that proposed marriage was pretty funny.  I love that Rhaenyra understands that marrying someone and inheriting a bunch of land and other duties could make her father seem like she's all set and that his son being the heir now makes more sense, and that she does not want that.  The friendship growing between her and Criston Cole was interesting too; I get the impression she's a bit into him, but he respects his Kingsguard vow of chastity.  The release of all her pent-up frustration on the boar was awesome, as was her returning to camp with the boat, blood still all over her head.  And I liked the smarts she showed by not attempting to kill the white hart, as that would make a lot of people think Aegon should be king from the symbolism.

 

Alicent - She was great this episode too.  It would be so easy for her to have turned on her former best friend, and want her son to be the named heir, but I love that she still support's Viserys' decision to keep her as heir.  Even still, I liked her little power play getting the minstrel to go away when Rhaenyra was studying :p  And I really liked that that even when Otto (fuck that guy!) tells her to convince Viserys to name Aegon heir, she still doesn't do it, and has him focus on the Daemon issue instead.  I'm going to be bummed, I think, when Rhaenyra and Alicent get replaced by adult actors, because these two ladies are just killing it in this show!
 

Daemon, Corlys, step-stones war - So did anybody else think that as cool as the big battle sequence at the end of the episode was, it didn't make much logistical sense?  Like, how were Dameon and Corlys' men running out of food and supplies?  They have multiple dragons, they can easily go get what they need any time. I can buy in that it's taken years to defeat the crab feeder because he's hunkered down in caves, fine.  But how does he get his men to exit those caves long enough to set up trebuchet shots that take down boats before getting fired-bombed?  Those things aren't that quick to set up!  Regardless of that, I liked the intent of the scene, that Daemon would rather die on the battlefield that accept aid from Viserys.  And the plan they have to do a fake surrender and hold off on the reinforcements and dragons until Daemon gets the crab feeder to send a lot of their men out was fine.  And boy, that final imagery of him dragging half the crab feeder's corpse out was badass!

 

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5 hours ago, Knight of Ren said:

This episode was quite crazy! The relationship between Rhaenyra and Daemon is taking some interesting turns (a bit twisted, but interesting), and Rhaenyra's character is growing a lot with each episode, but also Alicent's character is becoming more sympathetic, especially after that scene with Viserys. Overall, a great episode, and Djawadi's music delivers yet again, with some great moments especially during Rhaenrya's night escape.

 

Anyway, here's my analysis of the soundtrack for the episode. Feel free to check it out and leave your thoughts!

 

My Analysis of the Soundtrack of House of Dragon - 1x04

Completely agree! I was blown away and I think this is the best episode of the season so far. The storytelling is brilliant and I'm really impressed by the the score, the writing and the actors, especially Rhaenyra, Viserys Otto and Daemon. The cue where she escapes the city was my favorite musically I think but the cue in the Christon & Rhaenyra scene was beautiful as well.

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House of the Dragon 1x04 King of the Narrow Sea

 

OK, one of the things that makes this show great is the pacing.  I absolutely love that they jump months or years between episodes; It makes every episode have something big and game-changing happen in it, which is awesome.

 

In GOT, the seasons tended to have this ebb and flow of big events staked at certain points throughout the season, with "set-up-episodes" bridging them.  Here, there are not set-up episodes, every episode is big - and that's super fun!  I also feel like you get to know the characters better because you see them all going through big life changes and learning big life lessons everyweek, instead of sometimes only learning a little lesson while they idle so other storylines can move forward, etc.  

 

And I really like that the big moments don't always have to be be battles or murders, so much happened this episode without a single death - well, except that poor guy who got into the fight with the kid who just wanted to marry Rhaenyra :lol:

 

 

Daemon - This guy is just a shit.  Everytime you think he's willing to play ball with Visery's vision of ruling the kingdom, it's revealed, no, of course, he had his own agenda in mine.  And I love that he keeps screwing up his plans!  First he gets his bluff called hard by Rhaenyra, then his fight with the crab feeder takes 3 years and he almost dies, and now he thinks corrupting Rhaenyra to get her to marry him will solve his problems, but he can't even get it up for that and has to abandon the plan yet again.  What is this clown going to do next? You know he's not going back to the Vale!

 

Alicent - She continues to be my favorite character.  I love how she continues to be Rhaenyra's friend and ally, in so many different ways.  It would be so easy for her to be her bitter rival and likely had the power to have made her son the heir by now, and I love that she didn't go that path.  The juxtaposition of her forced sex with Viserys while Rhaenyra was having sex for the fun of it was a really well done moment.  It's so sad that she has no friends at all and is very lonely, especially since I have no idea what she can even do about that at all

 

Viserys - Dude's got some health issues, those sores aren't looking good! I enjoyed the brief period of happiness he had with Daemon in the beginning, and then his no holds barred knife to the throat tact for him at the end of things.  I also loved the way he handled the rumor, actually listening to both Alicent and Rhaenyra about what might have happened - and agreeing that he needed to fire Otto on top.  Of course I'm worried about what Otto's revenge for that will be....  Oh, and I love that he sent a Plan B to Rhanyra anyway, which I suppose tacetly implies he doesn't believe her, or maybe just means he knew she was up to something but doesn't think it's Daemon... I guess it doesn't matter.

 

Rhaenyra - Man, her long line of unworthy suitors was pretty funny, especially when two of them started fighting each other.  I loved the joy she had learning about not only a way to sneak out right her own bedroom, but being shown around a part of town she'd never seen otherwise by the uncle she clearly admires.  When he takes her to a brothel and tries to make out with her and she's into it, my wife starting yelling "NO!" at the television which was really amusing.  It's interesting that it seems she would have gone all the way with him if he had been able to get it up, though you have to wonder if these are long-lingering feelings for her, or if she was caught up in the moment of the entire night and her first time being surrounded by sex, plus being a virgin who is clearly ready to not be on top, etc.  I thought it was really interesting that after abandoning her, by the time she's back in her room (BTW: Why did she return through the main entrance instead of the secret passage!?!?!?!?) she wants to bang Sir Criston, and gets him to do so.  I have no idea how into her she is, and how willing this guy was to break his bows to be with her (they need to give this guy more dialogue), but at least they were into each other outside of that and seemed to have a fun time.  Interesting that the result of all this is that she'll have to marry Corlys's son anyway, which certainly seems like the best of any option that's been presenting to her so far anyway.  I wonder if we're in for a royal wedding next week, or we'll skip past that like we did Viserys and Alicent's.

 

Mysaria - Am I nuts or did the little kid that ratted Rhaenyra out to Otto collect payment from him and then deliver it to Mysaria?  Is she accepting money from Otto for spying on Daemon because she doesn't think Daemon is the long-term safety from fear that she initially thought he was?  Oh boy...

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

without a single death - well, except that poor kid who just wanted to marry Rhaenyra :lol:

 

 

I thought that it was "that poor kid" who emerged victorious, after killing the heckler on the sidelines who had a snide comment for every suitor. 

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You're probably right! I thought it was another suitor, but could have just been a heckler, idk

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It was certainly the Blackwood kid who won. Apparently the heckler was a Bracken. As a Blackwood fan, I find that quite titillating.

 

The Bracken guy wasn’t in line at the time, but he might have been a suitor all the same. (If not, then probably a companion of a suitor since the scene was at Storm’s End, some distance from the Brackens’ Riverlands dwelling.)

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9 hours ago, Jay said:

House of the Dragon 1x04 King of the Narrow Sea

 

OK, one of the things that makes this show great is the pacing.  I absolutely love that they jump months or years between episodes; It makes every episode have something big and game-changing happen in it, which is awesome.

 

In GOT, the seasons tended to have this ebb and flow of big events staked at certain points throughout the season, with "set-up-episodes" bridging them.  Here, there are not set-up episodes, every episode is big - and that's super fun!  I also feel like you get to know the characters better because you see them all going through big life changes and learning big life lessons everyweek, instead of sometimes only learning a little lesson while they idle so other storylines can move forward, etc.  

 

And I really like that the big moments don't always have to be be battles or murders, so much happened this episode without a single death - well, except that poor guy who got into the fight with the kid who just wanted to marry Rhaenyra :lol:

 

 

Daemon - This guy is just a shit.  Everytime you think he's willing to play ball with Visery's vision of ruling the kingdom, it's revealed, no, of course, he had his own agenda in mine.  And I love that he keeps screwing up his plans!  First he gets his bluff called hard by Rhaenyra, then his fight with the crab feeder takes 3 years and he almost dies, and now he thinks corrupting Rhaenyra to get her to marry him will solve his problems, but he can't even get it up for that and has to abandon the plan yet again.  What is this clown going to do next? You know he's not going back to the Vale!

 

Alicent - She continues to be my favorite character.  I love how she continues to be Rhaenyra's friend and ally, in so many different ways.  It would be so easy for her to be her bitter rival and likely had the power to have made her son the heir by now, and I love that she didn't go that path.  The juxtaposition of her forced sex with Viserys while Rhaenyra was having sex for the fun of it was a really well done moment.  It's so sad that she has no friends at all and is very lonely, especially since I have no idea what she can even do about that at all

 

Viserys - Dude's got some health issues, those sores aren't looking good! I enjoyed the brief period of happiness he had with Daemon in the beginning, and then his no holds barred knife to the throat tact for him at the end of things.  I also loved the way he handled the rumor, actually listening to both Alicent and Rhaenyra about what might have happened - and agreeing that he needed to fire Otto on top.  Of course I'm worried about what Otto's revenge for that will be....  Oh, and I love that he sent a Plan B to Rhanyra anyway, which I suppose tacetly implies he doesn't believe her, or maybe just means he knew she was up to something but doesn't think it's Daemon... I guess it doesn't matter.

 

Rhaenyra - Man, her long line of unworthy suitors was pretty funny, especially when two of them started fighting each other.  I loved the joy she had learning about not only a way to sneak out right her own bedroom, but being shown around a part of town she'd never seen otherwise by the uncle she clearly admires.  When he takes her to a brothel and tries to make out with her and she's into it, my wife starting yelling "NO!" at the television which was really amusing.  It's interesting that it seems she would have gone all the way with him if he had been able to get it up, though you have to wonder if these are long-lingering feelings for her, or if she was caught up in the moment of the entire night and her first time being surrounded by sex, plus being a virgin who is clearly ready to not be on top, etc.  I thought it was really interesting that after abandoning her, by the time she's back in her room (BTW: Why did she return through the main entrance instead of the secret passage!?!?!?!?) she wants to bang Sir Criston, and gets him to do so.  I have no idea how into her she is, and how willing this guy was to break his bows to be with her (they need to give this guy more dialogue), but at least they were into each other outside of that and seemed to have a fun time.  Interesting that the result of all this is that she'll have to marry Corlys's son anyway, which certainly seems like the best of any option that's been presenting to her so far anyway.  I wonder if we're in for a royal wedding next week, or we'll skip past that like we did Viserys and Alicent's.

 

Mysaria - Am I nuts or did the little kid that ratted Rhaenyra out to Otto collect payment from him and then deliver it to Mysaria?  Is she accepting money from Otto for spying on Daemon because she doesn't think Daemon is the long-term safety from fear that she initially thought he was?  Oh boy...

You wrote the thoughts I have about this episode down in a way I couldn't earlier this week. It's such a great show and I'm glad to see you like it this much as well.

Thanks for the time you took to write this down. Made a lot of things clearer for myself

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So am I the only one who noticed that the boy that delivers the news to Otto later gives his payment to Mysaria?  Implying that she works for Otto now!?!?

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From sex work, to engaged to a man-child, to spy for The Hand, to .....?

 

 

As a non-book reader who doesn't actually want to be spoiled, just speculate with other non-book-readers, who do we think Viserys will choose as replacement hand?  I hope he chooses Lord Strong, that guy has been the best advice-giver in the show so far by a mile

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So I'm not sure why a show as terrific as this one, with so many people clearly watching, is getting so little discussion here.

 

Is it just because so many of you are book-readers, and can't really share that many thoughts without ruining things for those of us that aren't?

 

Because I think one of the amazing aspects of this show is just how many things each episode gives you to think about all week between each episode.

 

 

Like, just from this one:

 

When did Daemon plan on trying to bed Rhaenyra?  Was it a plan him and Corlys came up with together? To "sully" her, forcing Viserys to let them be wed, bringing him back to next in line status?  Or did come up with it only after returning to King's Landing, and seeing her for the first time in 4 years?  Or was he not thinking ahead at all, and at first only wanted to show her around town, and only ended up caught in the moment wanting to bang her?  Why couldn't he get it up? Is he impotent?  He's had no kids with his Vale wife, no kids with Mysaria, was drinking instead of banging in that first episode, and now can't seal the deal with a willing Rhaenyra.  Or is he not impotent, but just couldn't bring himself to bed his neice?  Why did he lie and tell Viserys he did anyway?  Was he hoping he'd get that marriage approval?

 

Or Rhaenyra - how into Daemon is she?  Has she been thinking of him in a sexual way over the past 4 years?  Or never at all, but him turning up started it?  Or not even then, but only when he snuck her out of the castle?  Or not even then, but only when he brought her into a brothel?  Would she have gone all the way if he could get it up, or would she have stopped him at some point?  When she goes back home, is she "settling" for Criston, or she she already have lots of feelings for him, and the Daemon encounter just gave her the courage to finally act on them?  During the sex, was she thinking of Criston, or thinking of Daemon?  Is the sex they had considered consensual, or did she rape him?  There's a passive power imbalance, but was all that put aside?  What would have happened if he refused? Where is the line between doing whatever your queen tells you, and the chastity oath you took to be a kInguard?  Would there have been reprements if he didn't do it?  What will happen to him if anybody found out?  If Rhaenyra hadn't gotten caught thanks to Mysaria's spy, would she want to do it again?  Or would she try to bed Daemon next?

 

In a prior episode, Viserys vowwed on Rhaenyra's mother's memory that he wouldn't replace her as heir.  In this episode, she vows on her mother's memory that she is still a maiden, which is a lie.  If Viserys also lying?  Does the oath mean nothing?  Or does this show a difference between the more honest Viserys and the more conniving Rhaenyra?  Did him sending her the Plan Tea imply he does not believe her, and thinks she actually did sleep with Daemon?  Did she drink it? Why didn't the maester stay to confirm she did?  What would happen if she was pregnant from Cole and kept the baby?

 

And that's probably only half of the ponderances I've had this week!

 

The books may have the answers to some of these questions, and many of these questions may not matter in the slightest in the overall picture, but man I can't think of the last time I watch a show and thought about each episode this much between entries.  Great stuff!

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I'm with you. Not a lot of chatter about it anywhere.

 

But it's one of the best things on tv this year. Each episode and character/actor gives us so much. After each episode I'm thinking about it for a few days, it really stays with you. (Unlike Rings Of Power, which I like in the moment, but doesn't stick with me. Except for the music).

 

Can't wait for the next episodes of the season. And I hope it's not too jarring when we get different actors in certain roles. But I'm looking forward to it

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Episode 1x5 - We Light The Way

 

Ahhhhh, Game Of Thrones weddings, you have to loved them.

First off, big shootout to the director, Clare Kilner. Her directing in both the previous and this episode has been nothing but stellar. I'm really impressed and excited to see what she does with episode 9.

 

That whole wedding scene is one of the best things I've seen this year. Every entrance of a character made the tension grow. It starts with House Lannister. Second is the entrance of House Valyrion. Very cool, they really have a strong presence.

Thirdly is Daemon. God, he's such a bastard but I like him so much. It's incredible. Well done, Matt Smith.

Then lastly, and my personal favorite, is Allicent's entrance. I haven't read the book, but I knew her green dress was a very important statement. It was terrific + her calling Rhaenyra stepdaughter. WOW! Allicent goes from the observer, to the one being observed. She owns the room when she enters and shows everyone that she knows the truth and that she'll fight for her house and her house only as well as calling her house to go to war. And she's gaining a lot of allies, the Hightower House, Larys Strong and I think Ser Cole as well. Very excited to see where Allicent goes in the future. I feel her character has made a lot of development in this episode. She was just the bystander, looking after her friend and husband, but now they both kinda killed that and she's entering the 'Game Of Thrones' with a lot of power.

 

Then the moment the tension is released, with chaos ensuing. The whole feast I was waiting for something to happen and happen it did.

First off, I thought it was Rhaenyra maybe stabbing Daemon. Then I thought it was Cole attacking Daemon, but when it was revealed that it was Ser Cole attacking Ser Joffrey (Laenor's lover) was great. It made total sense after the scene between them earlier. And he went to town on his face (I got flashbacks of Oberyn's head) it was brutal.

But even more brutal was the reaction of Laenor and the wedding scene after that. To have the wedding in that moment, in the same room, with all the blood and everything still there (With rats feeding on it). Laenor almost not able to say the words because of his grief and Rhaenyra in the process feeling for him was heartbreaking. I thought the whole sequence was just so well done.

 

Other things:

- I like that Lord Strong is Hand Of The King. He seems best for the title. His sons are interesting. They don't seem as loyal as their father. The conversation Larys Strong has with Allicent is very suspicious. He basicly tells Allicent that Rhaenyra lied and that Viserys believed Otto and fired him either way.

- What will happen with Ser Cole. It looked like Allicent stopped his suicide, but I wonder what will happen with him. He won't stay in the castle, that would not be possible.

- The Grand Maester is not very capable. He doesn't listen to those around him and only uses one way of 'cruing' Viserys, which clearly doesn't work.

- Viserys' arm was quite shocking. When Rhaenys touched his hand, I though that just his fingers were gone. But to see his whole arm is just a lump of flesh was disturbing. I'm not sure Viserys will survive much longer. Especially with him collapsing again at the end. Paddy Considine does such great work. I would nominate him for an Emmy

- I really liked the scene between Otto & Allicent. The first time in 5 episodes that Otto showed some feelings of love. It genuinely felt like he dreaded leaving Allicent there, completely on her own.

- I really felt for Ser Christian Cole. He has a feeling of guilt about breaking his vow. And I still believe not fully (at that time) that he wanted to. He's is obviously in love with Rhaenyra, and when she turns him away because she 'is the Crown', he feels he lost everything. Then when he confesses to Allicent and asked that he gets killed mercifully, he feels a certain relief. But when Allicent only says he can go, you can see he's kind off breaks down. The conversation with Joffrey at the wedding, just pushes him over edge. His scene by the tree with Allicent 'saving' him from killing himself, I think 'woke him up'. Before this it looked like he felt he lived in a fairytale and he has finally woken up from that idea.

 

Djawadi, again, had some wonderful musical moments this episode.

- The entrance of House Valeryon and the dancing scenes.

- The dragon flight before the wedding.

- Otto's goodbye.

- And the cue at the end with the piano. Gorgeous

Best moment though, I feel was Allicent's entrance. It sounded like a fully formed theme for her and it was both beautiful and powerful. 

 

I'm curious to see what the next 5 episodes bring, because I know the younger actors will change now for the older ones. As of this moment Milly Alcock, Emily Carey and Theo Nate have done magnificent work over the past episodes. And it will be weird to not see them again. Especially Alcock & Carey.

I'm a fan of Olivia Cook so excited to see her. Not sure yet about Emma D'Arcy, but we'll see.

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This show is great. That whole wedding feast was very well done, from the music to the editing to the blocking of the actors. Hope this is getting enough eyeballs on it to keep it on the air with the budget it deserves, but I fear it’s not going to.

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It's really good so far without having to lean too much into GoT lore, in the sense that I think anyone can enjoy this without having seen GoT. The wedding scene was great, and it was obviously hinting at something explosively sinister happening, but the eventual bloodshed felt a little anti-climatic to me – it was between two bit characters that personally did not evoke from care from me at this point (one was a boring Jon Snow-ish character, the other just a new character that wasn't developed yet). 

 

And with the next episode probably taking from years from now it will be jarring. I wanted to see more of the current bunch of actors. 

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21 hours ago, Hurmm said:

They should have gotten Kate Winslet to play the adult Allicent. They look so alike. 

 

I'm guessing that would defeat the main purpose of casting Emily Carey, which is that she's a dead ringer for Olivia Cooke.

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I'm really interested to find out who was cast first Alcock or D'Arcy, Carey or Cooke.

 

Each of them has 5 episodes playing the character, so I'm looking forward to see who stands out. I do hope that they won't suddenly be completely different charachters now that different actors play them

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It's a safe bet that Cooke was cast before Carey.

 

16 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Each of them has 5 episodes playing the character...

 

5 episodes in Season 1, but, unless the character dies this season, the older actor will be the main one for the overall series.

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Guys, can you talk about actor replacements inside spoiler blocks?

Some of us choose not to watch the "next time on" previews, and you just ruined me finding out that they'll be replaced next week instead of finding out live as I watch the episode.  Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Glóin the Dark said:

It's a safe bet that Cooke was cast before Carey.

Both Cooke & D'Arcy were cast before Alcock and Carey and the younger actors were partially chosen to "match" Cooke & D'Arcy.

 

I saw episode 5 yesterday and loved it. The way the wedding was shot was great and there was a lot of development in the story on a character level and also on a broader scale, with the wedding and how certain characters react to the wedding. One of the scenes that were the most interesting to me was when Otto says goodbye to Alicent and while his character is a scheming bastard whom I don't particularly like so far, you can see where he's coming from and Alicent's entrance at the Wedding feast was so well done, especially with this scene in the back of your head, with the music where Alicent's theme is heard in full. It also struck me how the dancing sequence had so much tension with all the whispered conversations going on in the throne room and the source music was great, I think I even heard a reference to the King's theme in one of the dance cues. The interaction with Alicent and Ser Christon was so well done as well and you could really see how he almost was relieved with the confession.

 

Hearing the full House Velarion theme in the arrival scene in Driftmark where you see Corlys' castle was amazing and later in the episode it was nice to hear it used in a dragon flight scene as well (in King's Landing), as the Targaryen (or Daenerys' theme in GOT) has always be used previously. And finally, the use of the Heir theme on piano during the wedding scene at the end was brilliant.

 

I was a bit unsure about the intro after episode 2 but I'm now also completely sold on the main title sequence using the GOT theme because, like I suspected, the score does not lean much on GOT, except for the appropriate themes and the GOT theme so hearing that at the start really introduces the viewer to Westeros again! I love the theme and getting to hear it every week is great!

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42 minutes ago, Jay said:

...you just ruined me finding out that they'll be replaced next week...

 

For what it's worth, I've no specific knowledge of the timellne either, and haven't watched the next episode's preview. The claim about the number of episodes was a surprise to me (assuming correct) given where the last one ended. I'll confine any further speculation to spoiler blocks nonetheless.

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48 minutes ago, Jay said:

Guys, can you talk about actor replacements inside spoiler blocks?

Some of us choose not to watch the "next time on" previews, and you just ruined me finding out that they'll be replaced next week instead of finding out live as I watch the episode.  Thanks.

Sorry.

I don't watch the previews either, but I thought it was widely know that they would change halway through the season.

Apologies again

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I also don't watch previews. I want to be surprised when I watch the episodes in regard to story and locations and imagery, but it was announced from the start that Cooke & D'Arcy would be the "main" actors for Alicent & Rhaenyra in the show.

 

This isn't a spoiler really but I put it in spoiler tags anyway:

Spoiler

I read recently that the Alcock and Carey could potentially be returning in S2 in flashbacks which would be nice because they were amazing as young Rhaenyra & Alicent!

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I liked how the wedding began, but not the way it ended. I was sure it would climax with Alicent revealing to the guests that Rhanyera wasn't a virgin anymore, and instead it ended with a silly fight between that gay knight and Ser Criston. 

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53 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I thought it was widely known that they would change halway through the season.


It is widely known to people who’ve followed the production closely. I guess it’s just a case of people wanting to go in blind so they can discover everything for themselves as the series unfolds.

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I wanted to sit down to watch a new episode and organically find out that the show has jumped forward in time to a point that new actors are required, not find out via a "next time on" preview, nor via open discussion on a forum that wasn't put behind a spoiler block.  Too late now!

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If this proves to be accurate, I feel more intrigued than spoiled by the revelation.

 

Speculation as to the ways in which it could play out within:

 

Spoiler

(a) We jump straight into the later period, with the older actors, from the beginning of the episode. If so, this will be a surprise to me, since the last episode ended with a build-up of tension that felt as though it would require more urgent attention. It would also suggest that King Viserys wasn't anywhere as close to kicking the bucket as he has appeared to be lately, since the show is surely not going to just skip over the matter of the succession towards which everything has been building so far.

 

(b) The transition between the two eras is the story of this episode (or at least one of the major aspects of it) with the new actors taking up the roles somewhere in the middle of it.

 

(c) The episode is mainly about the (temporary) resolution of the tensions that have been built up in this earlier era, and the transition to the later period with the new actors will be at the end as a sort of coda, and a taster for the next phase of the story.

 

[And I guess there's also (d): the time jump doesn't occur in Episode 6 at all.]

 

Presumably the opening credits will provide the first heads-up about the approaching time jump...

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Some more ruminations

 

-Did Daemon kill his wife because in his twisted mind, he thinks if he isn't already married to someone else, Viserys will finally let him marry Rhaenyra?  (He does this before he learns she's betrothed to Laenor).  Or did he go to the Vale for some other reason, and only killed her after she started tearing into him?

 

-She was an awesome character in her tiny amount of screen time; I'd love to see that actress in something else similar now!

 

-Did Otto CREATE the war he was trying to avoid?  He forces Alicent to think that the realm will never accept Rhaenyra and therefore her children are in danger, but he can't possibly KNOW this, he just assumes it.  Everything might have been perfectly fine!  But now, it never will be, because Alicent views the crown as her child's birthright.  Oi!

 

-Exactly what is wrong with Viserys, anyway?  Is it just infections from untreated wounds from the swords on the iron throne?  Or is something else going on?

 

-Why did every person in that room let Criston Cole exit cleanly after his murder?  Are Kingsguards exempted from certain laws?  Or was someone likely sent to find and jail him, and he was trying to kill himself before that, and Alicent would hide him from this justice?

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2 hours ago, Jay said:

-Why did every person in that room let Criston Cole exit cleanly after his murder?  Are Kingsguards exempted from certain laws?  Or was someone likely sent to find and jail him, and he was trying to kill himself before that, and Alicent would hide him from this justice?

I thought this as well. Bit weird, but I think they let that happen so the scene by the tree could happen and maybe establish that Christon will be on Allicent's side.

The way she was standing there in the moonlight, I felt he saw her as sort of his saving angel or something. I think he's thinking he owes her a debt maybe now, for saving his life

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Another fantastic episode. It's not quite reached the heights of GOT at its best, but it's getting there. Crisp writing, along with engaging, interesting, complex characters with real motivations, and of course the whole thing looks phenomenal.

 

4 hours ago, Jay said:

-She(Daemon's wife) was an awesome character in her tiny amount of screen time; I'd love to see that actress in something else similar now!

 

Agree! She was excellent, and when I first saw her, I thought "wow, so who is this", and now I'm sorry we're not going to see more of her!

 

4 hours ago, Jay said:

-Did Otto CREATE the war he was trying to avoid?  He forces Alicent to think that the realm will never accept Rhaenyra and therefore her children are in danger, but he can't possibly KNOW this, he just assumes it.  Everything might have been perfectly fine!  But now, it never will be, because Alicent views the crown as her child's birthright.  Oi!

 

Hmmmmm. Interesting observation. I think Alicent would have come to this conclusion on her own, it was inevitable, if for no other reason than it's the truth. But Otto certainly hastened things along, didn't he?

 

4 hours ago, Jay said:

-Why did every person in that room let Criston Cole exit cleanly after his murder?  Are Kingsguards exempted from certain laws?  Or was someone likely sent to find and jail him, and he was trying to kill himself before that, and Alicent would hide him from this justice?

 

Who was going to stop him? I didn't see many other armed people around who would have been a position to do. There was so much chaos going on, and people were in a state of shock. Most of them were just Lords & Ladies...drunk guests at the feast. I also think that if people saw a member of the King's Guard putting someone down like that, the victim must have done something wrong, or presented himself to be some kind of threat. 

 

On 20/9/2022 at 10:14 PM, Jay said:

And then Alicent asks him into her quarters, asks a vague question about something Rhaenyra might possibly have done that she clearly wasn't sure about.... and he just spills all the beans immediately?

 

This is really the only thing that didn't work for me. I don't mind that Alicent found out, that needed to happen. But the way it happened just felt a little soap-operaish, with Cole just sort of blurting the truth out because he misunderstood what Alicent was suggesting.  Almost like the kind of miscommunication scenario two people on Friends might have found themselves in.  I didn't mind it that much, but I think it could have been handled a little more deftly. 

 

It's a small complaint though, this is the best show on TV right now.

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3 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

This is really the only thing that didn't work for me. I don't mind that Alicent found out, that needed to happen. But the way it happened just felt a little soap-operaish, with Cole just sort of blurting the truth out because he misunderstood what Alicent was suggesting.  Almost like the kind of miscommunication scenario two people on Friends might have found themselves in.  I didn't mind it that much, but I think it could have been handled a little more deftly. 


That’s funny, one of my co-workers that I watched it with said the exact same thing with the same example

 

I don’t think that’s why Cole blurred out the truth, I think he’s honest to a fault and he couldn’t bear to lie to the Queen who was already suspicious that there was more to the story. I can see how it came across as that though

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I was expecting a little more to happen in the wedding scene given the tension they establish.  The knight killing the guy was violent and unexpected but the way the scene was paced led me to believe that something more planned and concrete would happen (as opposed to a random outburst of violence)

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21 hours ago, DarthDementous said:


That’s funny, one of my co-workers that I watched it with said the exact same thing with the same example

 

I don’t think that’s why Cole blurred out the truth, I think he’s honest to a fault and he couldn’t bear to lie to the Queen who was already suspicious that there was more to the story. I can see how it came across as that though

 

Hmmmmmm. Perhaps, but I don't think so. I don't think that's how the scene is written.

 

Had they wanted to play it as "Cole's just an honest & honourable Knight", I think it would have gone more like this...Alicent specifically mentions the rumour involving Rhaenyra & Daemon, and Cole, wanting to protect Rhaenyra from a scurrilous rumour involving her Uncle that could destroy her, then confesses to the truth. But that's not how they played it, there's a reason they had Alicent trail off before specifically mentioning Daemon by name. You don't write the scene that way by accident.

 

I also don't think Cole is as honourable as we've been led to believe. If he was so honourable, he wouldn't have immediately asked Alicent for mercy for himself in the manner of his execution, but instead thought of Rhaenyra first and asked for mercy for her. His first thought was for himself. And if he was so honourable, he wouldn't have revealed that Rhaenyra was the one who initiated the encounter...that was dishonourable, and made Rhaenyra look worse. And if Cole was so honourable, and thinking only of Rhaenyra, he certainly wouldn't have suggested she throw her life away (perhaps literally) by running off with him. And no matter how he may rationalise it to himself, I also think it was more his own bruised ego, rather than a true desire to protect Rhaenyra, that caused him to murder Joffrey Lonmouth in that way.

 

So yeah, Cole has the look and manner of an honourable Knight, but his actions (and frankly, the script) tell another story. I think he comes of as more of an immuature, self-centered egoist who styles himself as chivalrous, and perhaps even believes it. But he's revealing himself have many of the same flaws as other Westerosi Knights.

 

That said, he's instantly become a more interesting character because of all that, and the last scene with Alicent left me intrigued.

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I said honest not honourable, there's a key difference. He can't bear to hold lies but he's absolutely self-interested, he just communicates that openly like in the scene where he tells Rhaenyra that she has to marry him or else his name and legacy is fucked forever

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Criston Cole is, it seems, overwhelmingly preoccupied with his self-image and perceived reputation and status, as seen through the prism of chivalrous ideals; he's suffering from a bad case of chivalric narcissism, one might say. Joffrey Lonmouth was on the right lines when he diagnosed Cole as being "cuntstruck", except that I'd say that he's not so much in love (or in lust) with Rhaenyra as a person as with the opportunity she provides for elevating his own self-esteem. (His obsession with her puts me in mind of Littlefinger's with Catelyn Tully - though Littlefinger's form of narcissism is obviously quite different from Cole's.)

 

I think that, when questioning him, Alicent is just treading lightly since she is broaching a delicate and potentially dangerous matter, and also taking care to give him the impression that her motives are honourable and not selfish or antagonistic. But to Cole, in his narcissism, the notion that the interview is about something other than himself does not occur, and so he offers up his admission of guilt before being forced to.

 

Alicent is sharp enough to recognise the potentially valuable asset at hand, and to work out how to take advantage of him.

 

On 20/09/2022 at 10:14 PM, Jay said:

...it was clear that he wants to inherit The Vale as his own.

 

Not the whole of the Vale, I think - presumably the Lord Paramount is still an Arryn - just the Royce lands within the Vale.

 

On 20/09/2022 at 10:14 PM, Jay said:

And the way he delivered the news to Alicent was sooooo obvious, how did she not see it? Is she too young?

 

I expect she did see it, and it would be hard to believe that Larys thought he could disguise his real intentions. I think he was just avoiding making blatant allegations and allowing her to read between the lines.

 

20 hours ago, Jay said:

Exactly what is wrong with Viserys, anyway?

 

Bad healthcare. Mellos is a quack.

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On 19/09/2022 at 4:53 AM, JNHFan2000 said:

Second is the entrance of House Valyrion. Very cool, they really have a strong presence.

 

I loved their entrance, with the banging drums!  So cool!

 

On 19/09/2022 at 4:53 AM, JNHFan2000 said:

- What will happen with Ser Cole. It looked like Allicent stopped his suicide, but I wonder what will happen with him. He won't stay in the castle, that would not be possible.

 

Yea, precisely what does that guy do now?

 

On 19/09/2022 at 4:53 AM, JNHFan2000 said:

- Viserys' arm was quite shocking. When Rhaenys touched his hand, I though that just his fingers were gone. But to see his whole arm is just a lump of flesh was disturbing.

 

I think he's still only lost 2 fingers; That shot of his arm showed a poultice all over it, not anything wrong with his arm (otherwise).

 

On 19/09/2022 at 4:53 AM, JNHFan2000 said:

- I really liked the scene between Otto & Allicent. The first time in 5 episodes that Otto showed some feelings of love. It genuinely felt like he dreaded leaving Allicent there, completely on her own.

 

He definitely did, and I wonder what in the heck he does with his life now?

 

On 19/09/2022 at 4:53 AM, JNHFan2000 said:

His scene by the tree with Allicent 'saving' him from killing himself, I think 'woke him up'. Before this it looked like he felt he lived in a fairytale and he has finally woken up from that idea.

 

Oh, I dunno about that.  We'll see where his character goes I guess, but I don't think he was THAT into a fairy-tale type of world view; I think he just thought Rhaenyra's feelings were more genuine than they actually were.

 

On 19/09/2022 at 11:28 AM, Hurmm said:

They should have gotten Kate Winslet to play the adult Allicent. They look so alike. 

 

I don't see it!

 

On 19/09/2022 at 6:29 PM, Docteur Qui said:

This show is great. That whole wedding feast was very well done, from the music to the editing to the blocking of the actors. Hope this is getting enough eyeballs on it to keep it on the air with the budget it deserves, but I fear it’s not going to.

 

Are you kidding?  It's a giant ratings smash!  One of the biggest hits any channel has had in years!

 

On 20/09/2022 at 1:42 AM, Hurmm said:

The wedding scene was great, and it was obviously hinting at something explosively sinister happening, but the eventual bloodshed felt a little anti-climatic to me – it was between two bit characters that personally did not evoke from care from me at this point (one was a boring Jon Snow-ish character, the other just a new character that wasn't developed yet). 

 

I can totally understand why someone would find it anti-climactic, especially because it was between two non-main characters, and GOT weddings killed off main characters in weddings... but for me, it wasn't anti-climactic.  I loved how you didn't know what was happening at first, putting the viewer in the headspace of Viserys, or many other observers in the room, but your mind reels with the possibilities of who it could be, because there are so many character quarrels set up leading up to it... the final reveal of what was going on makes the most sense, and has lots of interesting ramifications.  I will concede though, that it does have a bit of "well, this had to happen because of the story we REALLY want to start telling", rather than a true organic development from all character moments so far, but I let it slide because it still just makes sense and works well - and has direct ramifications FOR our main characters from it.

 

 

On 20/09/2022 at 10:18 AM, Mr. Who said:

One of the scenes that were the most interesting to me was when Otto says goodbye to Alicent and while his character is a scheming bastard whom I don't particularly like so far, you can see where he's coming from

 

Yea, it's so well done

 

On 20/09/2022 at 10:42 AM, Edmilson said:

I liked how the wedding began, but not the way it ended. I was sure it would climax with Alicent revealing to the guests that Rhanyera wasn't a virgin anymore, and instead it ended with a silly fight between that gay knight and Ser Criston. 

 

How was that fight "silly"?

 

 

 

On 21/09/2022 at 4:26 PM, JNHFan2000 said:

The way she was standing there in the moonlight, I felt he saw her as sort of his saving angel or something. I think he's thinking he owes her a debt maybe now, for saving his life

 

It's interesting, that I think she contributed to his actions in the first place!  Of course he was already reeling from his conversation with Rhaenyra, BUT then when they get back and Alicent calls him into his quarters, and he confesses, and talks about being gelded vs executed, and she does not clarify which, or neither, or whatever, will happen, but only dismisses him, I think that's weighing on his mind too ("what will my punishment be?")  So on top of Rhaenyra's rejection, his chastify-breaking meaning nothing, and everything else with that, he's also got potential punishment for his confession hanging over his head to, and then Joffrey Lonmouth reminds him of his paramour status when all he wants is to run away with her instead... and he snaps!

 

But yea, I can't wait to see what his life is like going forward, and what role Alicent plays in it!

 

 

On 21/09/2022 at 4:36 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

Agree! She was excellent, and when I first saw her, I thought "wow, so who is this", and now I'm sorry we're not going to see more of her!

 

Right?  There's no way we'll see her again on this show, so hopefully some show or movie out there is looking for a bad-ass role along these lines and a casting director thinks of her!

 

On 21/09/2022 at 4:36 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

Hmmmmm. Interesting observation. I think Alicent would have come to this conclusion on her own, it was inevitable, if for no other reason than it's the truth. But Otto certainly hastened things along, didn't he?

 

But how do we KNOW for absolute fact that the realm won't accept Rhaenyra as the true heir, and a war to put Aegon in place instead is a guarantee?  Otto SAYS it is, but how do we KNOW?  There's certainly going to be a war now, of course, but MIGHT there have never been one if he hadn't forced Alicent to assume it was inevitable, and act accordingly?

 

On 21/09/2022 at 4:36 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

Who was going to stop him? I didn't see many other armed people around who would have been a position to do. There was so much chaos going on, and people were in a state of shock. Most of them were just Lords & Ladies...drunk guests at the feast. I also think that if people saw a member of the King's Guard putting someone down like that, the victim must have done something wrong, or presented himself to be some kind of threat. 

 

Hmm, good point.  I guess the amount of time it took for Lord Strong to send Break Bones over is justified when you look at it that way.

 

On 21/09/2022 at 4:36 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

This is really the only thing that didn't work for me. I don't mind that Alicent found out, that needed to happen. But the way it happened just felt a little soap-operaish, with Cole just sort of blurting the truth out because he misunderstood what Alicent was suggesting.  Almost like the kind of miscommunication scenario two people on Friends might have found themselves in.  I didn't mind it that much, but I think it could have been handled a little more deftly. 

 

Hehehe, yea, indeed.  As soon as they started talking, I realized we are watching one of the most common sitcom tropes their is.  It was really amusing watching my wife go "Ohhh no!!  Oh nooooo!!!" as it was happening.  Luckily, they subverted my expectations;  Instead of doing the obvious sitcom thing, where he confesses in a way that makes her think he is just confirming the Daemon part, and then she acts assuming she did sleep with Daemon.... they instead had him be completely clear about what really happened.  And like I said up above somewhere, I actually thought she found out that was a relief to her, and she would be happy she really didn't sleep with Daemon, but I guess it makes sense that she's still made because she lied about being a maiden.

 

 

21 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

I don’t think that’s why Cole blurred out the truth, I think he’s honest to a fault and he couldn’t bear to lie to the Queen who was already suspicious that there was more to the story. I can see how it came across as that though

 

I guess part of it is his oath as a Kingsguard really made him think he cannot lie to the King/Queen.  And part of it was probably that he felt so spurned from Rhaenyra he was probably already having suicidal thoughts.

 

21 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I was expecting a little more to happen in the wedding scene given the tension they establish.  The knight killing the guy was violent and unexpected but the way the scene was paced led me to believe that something more planned and concrete would happen (as opposed to a random outburst of violence)

 

I liked that nobody was PLANNING on doing anything bad at this wedding - a nice change from the Red and Purple weddings in GOT.

 

11 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I also don't think Cole is as honourable as we've been led to believe. If he was so honourable, he wouldn't have immediately asked Alicent for mercy for himself in the manner of his execution, but instead thought of Rhaenyra first and asked for mercy for her. His first thought was for himself. And if he was so honourable, he wouldn't have revealed that Rhaenyra was the one who initiated the encounter...that was dishonourable, and made Rhaenyra look worse.

 

Oh I dunno about that.  In this world, I think royalty is really looked at as being "above" the rest of the folk, especially these Targaryens who conquered the entire continent by riding freaking DRAGONS.  I think he views her as being above the law and making no wrong decisions, and is more focused on how he broke a vow even though it was what she wanted.  Or something like that.

 

 

11 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

So yeah, Cole has the look and manner of an honourable Knight, but his actions (and frankly, the script) tell another story. I think he comes of as more of an immuature, self-centered egoist who styles himself as chivalrous, and perhaps even believes it. But he's revealing himself have many of the same flaws as other Westerosi Knights.

 

He's kind of a dumbass I think

 

11 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

That said, he's instantly become a more interesting character because of all that, and the last scene with Alicent left me intrigued.

 

Definitely!

 

 

8 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Criston Cole is, it seems, overwhelmingly preoccupied with his self-image and perceived reputation and status, as seen through the prism of chivalrous ideals; he's suffering from a bad case of chivalric narcissism, one might say. Joffrey Lonmouth was on the right lines when he diagnosed Cole as being "cuntstruck", except that I'd say that he's not so much in love (or in lust) with Rhaenyra as a person as with the opportunity she provides for elevating his own self-esteem. (His obsession with her puts me in mind of Littlefinger's with Catelyn Tully - though Littlefinger's form of narcissism is obviously quite different from Cole's.)

 

Wow, OK, that's a really interesting take on the matter!  I will ponder on this!

 

8 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Not the whole of the Vale, I think - presumably the Lord Paramount is still an Arryn - just the Royce lands within the Vale.

 

Ah OK, thank you for clarifying!

 

8 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I expect she did see it, and it would be hard to believe that Larys thought he could disguise his real intentions. I think he was just avoiding making blatant allegations and allowing her to read between the lines.

 

OK, but what WERE his true intentions?  What is his goal with Alicent, what are his goals in life?  And how much does his father know or approve of what he's up to?  (I don't actually want book spoilers that answer these questions, these are just things I am pondering on now!)

 

 

8 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Bad healthcare. Mellos is a quack.

 

lol

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Just found this nifty family tree on HBO's official site

 

https://www.hbo.com/house-of-the-dragon/character-guide

 

Apparently it gets updated after each episode, so you don't want to go there if a new episode has aired that you haven't seen yet. 

 

It's too bad there's no way to go back and look at how it looked after each of the prior episodes now

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