Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Breaking news: Fans of John Williams surprised and angered that music not by John Williams is not as good as music by John Williams

 

Holt's music is nice. I like the Alderaan stuff a lot, and Leia's new theme has shades of Powell in it, particularly the longer melodic line work. Much better than a lot of her contemporaries who keep their themes in strict four-bar phrases. I look forward to hearing her work in isolation.

[Van_Etten 111]

What about the rest of her score?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

4 minutes ago, Van_Etten said:

What about the rest of her score?

 

I liked the underscore when the Inquisitors first arrive on Tatooine, some very powerful low brass writing. The later statements of the theme aren't as good though and are a bit muddled with the synth work. One thing I'm not much of a fan of is the percussion in some of the action sequences. Less can be more in my opinion.

[Faleel 5,340]

What about the Hanging Jedi?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Just now, Counterparts said:

What about the Hanging Jedi?

 

Yes that's another cue that I really liked - the solo violin is great, and judging from Holt's interviews played by her.

 

I'd like to listen to the music by itself, as much as I enjoyed the episodes I don't have much desire to rewatch them so soon.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

Breaking news: Fans of John Williams surprised and angered that music not by John Williams is not as good as music by John Williams

 

Holt's music is nice. I like the Alderaan stuff a lot, and Leia's new theme has shades of Powell in it, particularly the longer melodic line work. Much better than a lot of her contemporaries who keep their themes in strict four-bar phrases. I look forward to hearing her work in isolation.

It's far below the general non-Williams Star Wars scores especially when it comes to the video games so I don't think people are holding it to an impossible standard in that regard

[Tydirium 1,166]

1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

Breaking news: Fans of John Williams surprised and angered that music not by John Williams is not as good as music by John Williams

 

More like we're angered (not really surprised) that music not by John Williams is not as good as music by William Ross.

 

We weren't looking for John Williams here, but there are other people out there who can do a much better job than what we're getting from Holt. Like William Ross, in this very show. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about that.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

On 22/04/2022 at 5:02 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

I wonder how TGP feels about this...

 

He watched the first episodes tonight - just for Ewan really - and I can't say it was that enthralling.  Came here to see what this place thought.  Music is just sort of there, innit?

 

On 22/04/2022 at 5:09 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

Isn't he banned?

 

Reports of my banning are greatly exaggerated.  I am merely retired from JWFan, the internet, and music making as a whole.  I seem to only ever check this place anymore when I'm away from home.  Hope you're all well.

[Arpy 4,145]

I'd say Holt's music doesn't really get much prominence, but it just sounds like background music until the Williams' theme comes in. Two episodes in isn't enough to really form much of an opinion, though I'm interested to hear what she might write outside of Williams' material. 

 

The new Star Wars logo thing sounds Star Wars-y at least.

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

I also think it's important to remember that Holt is making music that de director & producer want. Maybe she did wrote other stuff that was changed due to other people's point of view

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

If she wrote the logo music, i congratulate her because i like it a lot and sounds very sw classic.

 

and if she wanted to write like that and deborah chow banned her, then shame on Chow.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

1 hour ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I also think it's important to remember that Holt is making music that de director & producer want. Maybe she did wrote other stuff that was changed due to other people's point of view

I don't think, that If any of the recent Star Wars composers came up with real classical Star Wars score for their part, that any of the producers would have said "Please throw out that old fashioned complicated music and replace it with something much more generic and unmelodic. Instead of this Star Wars mood we are rather looking for some more car commercial appeal."

I rather think, that in the score discussions the composer says, "But I am not writing classical scores, more modern stuff." 

And the director/producer says, "That's ok, do your thing. Better do something you know how to do right instead of doing something that you are not good at."

And then in the Interview they say, "They encouraged me, to write more modern stuff."

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

3 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I also think it's important to remember that Holt is making music that de director & producer want. Maybe she did wrote other stuff that was changed due to other people's point of view

My theory based off Holt's comments and the huge amount of ghostwriters is that they rejected a score beforehand so she and her team were brought on last minute.  Maybe the first score was too "traditional" (by a Christophe Beck type composer)

 

So they instruct Holt to go the opposite direction, realize they've gone too far and bring in JW and Ross to make it feel more Star Warsy.

[Bespin 8,480]

What you seem to be insinuating is that Lucasfilm is sailing by sight!!!

 

Which I totally agree with.

[Andy 4,089]

Just tossing out an idea after watching Stranger Things.

 

 Obviously not for Obi-Wan, but I wonder if an 80s style all synth score could work for the right Star Wars project?
 

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

I think it could.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 minute ago, Andy said:

Just tossing out an idea after watching Stranger Things.

 

 Obviously not for Obi-Wan, but I wonder if an 80s style all synth score could work for the right Star Wars project?
 

It would have at least been a better choice than droning and 7/8 drums

[Bespin 8,480]

I found the music of the two first episodes to be perfect. Old school compositions when needed, and a beatbox when needed too.

 

At the end, if it took 14 composers to achieve that, why not! Lucasfilm is in trouble, not me! hehe

[Drew 590]

It never needed a beatbox, lol

 

20 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

My theory based off Holt's comments and the huge amount of ghostwriters is that they rejected a score beforehand so she and her team were brought on last minute.  Maybe the first score was too "traditional" (by a Christophe Beck type composer)

 

But Holt was apparently hired a long time ago. The timeline doesn't add up.

[mstrox 6,647]

I think the most likely story is just the official story.  LFL asked Williams to provide a theme, but they weren’t sure whether the schedule thing would work.  Holt started a score including her own theme.  Williams found time to do a theme midstream, which required course correction from Holt and her team.  Due to a combination of the stress of a television schedule, the amount of score required, the midstream course correction, and the fact that she is appropriately crediting her team instead of doing the ghostwriter thing, there are a handful of additional writers.   Holt is doing what the director and LFL producers want her to do, and if you don’t like it and are putting it on Holt’s shoulders, you’re probably complaining more about the symptom than the disease.  For my part, I’ve liked what I’ve heard well enough so far.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 hour ago, Bespin said:

Old school compositions when needed, and a beatbox when needed too.

 

Great sentence

[LSH 968]

I just finished the first episode. I don't think Holt's music is too bad; it's not entirely challenging or mature but it works. I agree about the action music though: that could literally be from anything. Williams' theme gets a good workout, perhaps too much.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

42 minutes ago, LSH said:

I just finished the first episode. I don't think Holt's music is too bad; it's not entirely challenging or mature but it works. I agree about the action music though: that could literally be from anything. Williams' theme gets a good workout, perhaps too much.

Yes, unless they use other williams themes in the upcoming episodes i fear the kenobi theme could end being overused

 

i still cannot understand how they havent used leias theme and a small flourish of lukes theme yet, and the force theme in the crucial scene.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Ah so this is like anakins theme and the imperial march….NOT.

 

I dont really hear a single note hinting to the adult leia theme.

[artguy360 1,843]

Is there a link for a snippet of the young Leia theme? I don't recall it from the show itself.

[LSH 968]

28 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Is there a link for a snippet of the young Leia theme? I don't recall it from the show itself.

 

The only material from the scenes on Alderaan I remember is a big chord progression thing for the establishing shots and some sort of New Age-y filler stuff. I don't recall anything that sounds specifically tied to Leia.   

[Faleel 5,340]

Again, Leia's theme was from Luke's romantic perspective.

[Bespin 8,480]

For me Princess Leia's theme always represented the sad part of Leia, the little crack in the armour, the "Pam" side of his personality (for those familiar with Carrie Fischer's bipolarity).

 

JW is lying a bit when referring to Leia's Theme solely as a love theme. It's much more than this and that's why it worked so well in the movies.

 

Of course it's not heard in Obi-Wan, we are not there yet with the character. The use of it would have been a mistake.

[DangerMotif 1,037]

15 minutes ago, Bespin said:

For me Princess Leia's theme always represented the sad part of Leia, the little crack in the armour, the "Pam" part of his personality (for those familiar with Carrie Fischer's bipolarity).

 

JW is lying a bit when referring to Leia's Theme solely as a love theme. It's much more than this and that's why it worked so well in the movies.

 

Of course it's not heard in Obi-Wan, we are not there yet with the character. The use of it would have been a mistake.

They used it in ROTS when she was a baby, atleast have the new theme be somewhat simmilar or hint

[Bespin 8,480]

1 minute ago, Gibster said:

They used it in ROTS when she was a baby, atleast have the new theme be somewhat simmilar or hint

 

Well it was for a sad scene.

[Tydirium 1,166]

2 hours ago, Gibster said:

 

 

Why should she have a different theme as a kid...?

[Faleel 5,340]

15 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

Why should she have a different theme as a kid...?

Why should Anakin?

 

 

[DangerMotif 1,037]

7 minutes ago, Counterparts said:

Why should Anakin?

 

 

Anakin and Darth Vader are much different that Leia and Leia

Just now, Gibster said:

Anakin and Darth Vader are much different that Leia and Leia

And his theme hinted at his real theme

[Tydirium 1,166]

1 hour ago, Counterparts said:

Why should Anakin?

 

 

 

Because Anakin is very different from Vader? To the point that in the OT, Obi-Wan even acts like they are two separate characters...

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

On 28/05/2022 at 10:03 PM, Docteur Qui said:

Breaking news: Fans of John Williams surprised and angered that music not by John Williams is not as good as music by John Williams

 

Holt's music is nice. I like the Alderaan stuff a lot, and Leia's new theme has shades of Powell in it, particularly the longer melodic line work. Much better than a lot of her contemporaries who keep their themes in strict four-bar phrases. I look forward to hearing her work in isolation.

Some fans aren't consistent. When Kiner and Giacchino echoed Williams in projects like Rebels and Rogue One, they were accused of being unoriginal and dubbed "Diet Williams". But when Natalie and Ludwig come in and bring their own styles to the table, they're accused of being "trendy" and "disrespectful". 

I more than welcome Star Wars composers bringing their own sensibilities to the music. I think Natalie's been doing a good job based on two episodes. I especially love her leitmotif for Reva in Part 2.

[Drew 590]

Kiner is barely diet Williams. He usually doesn't even try. His music is so inconsistent.

[Faleel 5,340]

16 minutes ago, Drew said:

Kiner is barely diet Williams. He usually doesn't even try. His music is so inconsistent.

At this point its more the Kiner family & co. than Kiner alone anyway.

[Drew 590]

Just now, Counterparts said:

At this point its more the Kiner family & co. than Kiner alone anyway.

 

Which is such a missed opportunity. They should hire someone who will actually do a good job. What's Gordy up to after Jedi: Survivor?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

24 minutes ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said:

Some fans aren't consistent. When Kiner and Giacchino echoed Williams in projects like Rebels and Rogue One, they were accused of being unoriginal and dubbed "Diet Williams". But when Natalie and Ludwig come in and bring their own styles to the table, they're accused of being "trendy" and "disrespectful". 

I more than welcome Star Wars composers bringing their own sensibilities to the music. I think Natalie's been doing a good job based on two episodes. I especially love her leitmotif for Reva in Part 2.

I'm all for new styles in SW but apart from the hanging cue, it all seemed like a mush of the most cliched, overly used modern television scoring techniques.  Nothing really stood out.  It's also coming off the heels of the Mandolarian, which utilized these techniques much better and The Book of Boba Fett (which didn't)

 

I think it's less about inconsistency than the fact that writing good SW music is hard for any composer and there are multiple ways for it to go wrong.  This just happens to be on the opposite end of the scale from Rogue One or Rebels

 

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

4 minutes ago, Drew said:

 

Which is such a missed opportunity. They should hire someone who will actually do a good job. What's Gordy up to after Jedi: Survivor?

Considering it's Gordy, probably another video game. But speaking of him, I adore his Jedi Temple Challenge theme (especially the part that reminds me of the Han Solo theme). I'd love to see what he can do with a show or a movie.

But I'm also all for Kiner giving Count Dooku a new theme. Or a theme at all. 

29 minutes ago, Drew said:

Kiner is barely diet Williams. He usually doesn't even try. His music is so inconsistent.

Is it common for people to not like Kiner and crew overall? I thought it was only his Rebels work people hated. I've always dug his music. 

[Drew 590]

I thought their music for Clone Wars was inconsistent and got worse as it went on. Season 7 was very disappointing. All these pivotal scenes but the music was just droning half the time.

 

Rebels...idk, the music in the first two seasons was distracting because of how often it used verbatim quotes of the JW music, almost certainly played by samples.

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

12 minutes ago, Drew said:

I thought their music for Clone Wars was inconsistent and got worse as it went on. Season 7 was very disappointing. All these pivotal scenes but the music was just droning half the time.

 

Rebels...idk, the music in the first two seasons was distracting because of how often it used verbatim quotes of the JW music, almost certainly played by samples.

Yeah, I'll agree that Rebels' music in Season 1 is a little too quotey at times. Though I adore the music for Seasons 2-4. As for Clone Wars Season 7, I thought it was pretty good. Prefer his work on the other seasons, but I love the Bad Batch theme so much that all is forgiven. Lol

[King Mark 3,626]

On 28/05/2022 at 11:05 PM, DarthDementous said:

It's far below the general non-Williams Star Wars scores especially when it comes to the video games so I don't think people are holding it to an impossible standard in that regard

 Agreed .The first episode started off on the right foot because they used Williams theme a lot. But the score to the second episode was so noticeably bad that it sucked the life out of the episode. It didn't remotely sound like Star Wars and felt like I was watching some low budget cop show. The scores to Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett weren't great , but not noticeably bad either and even some moments where they were pretty good.

 

I'm beginning to understand why they got Williams on board to salvage things a bit at the last minute

[artus_grayboot 77]

13 hours ago, Andy said:

Just tossing out an idea after watching Stranger Things.

 

 Obviously not for Obi-Wan, but I wonder if an 80s style all synth score could work for the right Star Wars project?
 

Maybe for Skeleton Crew based on the premise alone!

7 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Ah so this is like anakins theme and the imperial march….NOT.

 

I dont really hear a single note hinting to the adult leia theme.

IIRC, when Bail left her on the railing, the notes somewhat dance around or suggest that Leia theme. Could be crazy, but I felt it was a nebulous, fragmented rendition (if it can even be called that. More just slowly dancing through some of the notes).

[DiamondFire 67]

5 hours ago, Drew said:

 

Which is such a missed opportunity. They should hire someone who will actually do a good job. What's Gordy up to after Jedi: Survivor?

The thing is not everything should try and fit JW's style. Rebels tried to give you the same vibe while still being unique and it worked wonders (for S3-4). TCW S1's weird Orchestral Techno was also really good. 

The only thing I haven't liked is some of TBB music... but that wasn't Kevin since he now only does the stuff recorded by orchestra.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Why is there a gazillion threads for this piece?

[DiamondFire 67]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Why is there a gazillion threads for this piece?

I was thinking this as well lol, no idea what happened.

[Richard Penna 3,675]

5 hours ago, Drew said:

 

Which is such a missed opportunity. They should hire someone who will actually do a good job. What's Gordy up to after Jedi: Survivor?

 

Obviously a guess, but I'd say that given Holt wasn't replaced at the last minute, LFL and the director probably think she did do a good job. She did what they asked of her. Your frustration towards the music is probably better directed at them, who decided the tone they wanted and pretty much knew what they were getting, having heard her work from Loki.

[MikeH 768]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Why is there a gazillion threads for this piece?

We need a “Which Obi Wan thread is your favorite?” thread!