JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Holt can go 'big orchestral' in her own style, like @courtneyneedsaw says. The music heard under the duel now is not that. And that was also not what this duel was about I think. Vader was holding back. There'll be another duel. I think she'll go big and thematic then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondFire 67 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 11 hours ago, Tydirium said: Can you please just tell me how any of this sounds like Star Wars? Well how does the S1 TCW Orchestral Techno sound like Star Wars? It just does, can't describe it. It's in Star Wars so.. it's Star Wars music isn't it. Would I love the use of familiar themes and would it greatly add to the show? Yes. Is it taking me out of the show that they are not present? No. Quite honestly, all the tension building scenes work best with her type of underscoring that's happening. I do expect the big duel to be good though! mstrox, Tydirium and DarthDementous 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 987 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 I'm surprised no one has mentioned this article (which really implies it's purely a direction Holt was told to follow): https://www.ign.com/articles/obi-wan-kenobi-series-joker-logan-comparisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_Etten 111 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Can't say it implies anything regarding the music. If we're speaking of influences, westerns are kinda obvious for Star Wars since the beginning. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted June 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2022 The athematicality of the music in this show is bewildering. rpvee, crumbs, Stark and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Regarding why there’s not an abundance of legacy themes in what is essentially Star Wars Ep 3.5…Maybe @ocelot can chime in as I know he’s had some insight in the past as to how protective Williams can be over the use and execution of his themes by other composers. See Rogue One and then Williams’ subsequent heavy involvement in Solo. I’m just speculating, but using Bill Ross to specifically adapt his new theme for several cues and the end credits probably means Williams wants control over how his themes are presented in this context. Otherwise why not just give the new theme over to the four other composers involved for those cues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 1, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2022 Just now, MikeH said: Regarding why there’s not an abundance of legacy themes in what is essentially Star Wars Ep 3.5…Maybe @ocelot can chime in as I know he’s had some insight in the past as to how protective Williams can be over the use and execution of his themes by other composers. See Rogue One and then Williams’ subsequent heavy involvement in Solo. I’m just speculating, but using Bill Ross to specifically adapt his new theme for several cues and the end credits probably means Williams wants control over how his themes are presented in this context. Otherwise why not just give the new theme over to the four other composers involved? Why not give Bill Ross the whole show, then? I think everybody would have been happy if he was the main guy. Madmartigan JC, Stark, artus_grayboot and 5 others 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 894 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Solo was positively chockablock with Williams themes used in both original and new contexts by Powell. I believe Powell said Williams initially raised an eyebrow at the major-key Imperial March but eventually came to love it. But you also had soft, menacing "Duel of the Fates," you had the main theme, you had all of "Reminiscence Therapy"...heck, you had my one true love, the friggin' Droid Motif, hidden in a menacing action scene. I wouldn't be surprised to discover years from now that he somehow slipped Jabba's theme into "Dice and Roll." All this to say that Williams has not been possessive about letting other composers play in his thematic sandbox (see also Mando/Boba, Rebels, and the queue music for Star Tours). I think this is a directorial decision that Holt is either being forced to defend for self-preservation or actively agreed with. (I could be all wet, but I seemed to sense, between the lines, that Holt was a little miffed Williams horned in on a show she'd already scored or begun to score. That's understandable, but at the same time, the man is a walking miracle at this point, and you're gardening on his property. If he says he wants to dig up one of your tulips and plant one of his special breed of carnations, you scoot the heck over and give him your trowel.) crumbs, Courtney Sees Ghosts, Not Mr. Big and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Does anyone actually believe that he called them asking to do it and not the other way around? Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Do we have the option on this forum to hide a specific thread? I'm long past my quota of reading so-called JW's leitmotives experts. ragoz350, DarthDementous, mstrox and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, igger6 said: Solo was positively chockablock with Williams themes used in both original and new contexts by Powell. I believe Powell said Williams initially raised an eyebrow at the major-key Imperial March but eventually came to love it. But you also had soft, menacing "Duel of the Fates," you had the main theme, you had all of "Reminiscence Therapy"...heck, you had my one true love, the friggin' Droid Motif, hidden in a menacing action scene. I wouldn't be surprised to discover years from now that he somehow slipped Jabba's theme into "Dice and Roll." All this to say that Williams has not been possessive about letting other composers play in his thematic sandbox (see also Mando/Boba, Rebels, and the queue music for Star Tours). I think this is a directorial decision that Holt is either being forced to defend for self-preservation or actively agreed with. (I could be all wet, but I seemed to sense, between the lines, that Holt was a little miffed Williams horned in on a show she'd already scored or begun to score. That's understandable, but at the same time, the man is a walking miracle at this point, and you're gardening on his property. If he says he wants to dig up one of your tulips and plant one of his special breed of carnations, you scoot the heck over and give him your trowel.) I love the Droid motif, where specifically in the Solo score is it, really curious to hear what Powell did with it Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Bespin said: Do we have the option on this forum to hide a specific thread? I'm long past my quota of reading so-called JW's leitmotives experts. Nobody is making you click on it… igger6 and DarthDementous 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I'll pretend I never saw this post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, Gibster said: Does anyone actually believe that he called them asking to do it and not the other way around? It feels a lot like an emergency measure because they knew the music wasn't working and it was too late to reject it Cerebral Cortex, Tydirium and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I'm serious, I'll give 100$ to the next JWFAN fund raising, if you add an option to ignore a specific thread!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Why are you still here if you hate this thread? Nobody is making you read this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 It pops up when new content is added, I don't want to see that anymore. I want a "mask this conversation" option like they have on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Ah, I see. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Bes, give me that hundred bucks and I’ll see what I can do for you Cerebral Cortex and Bespin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 minute ago, mstrox said: Bes, give me that hundred bucks and I’ll see what I can do for you Don't get excited I meant Canadian bucks! mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Managing notifications on individual threads would be a nice feature indeed artus_grayboot and Tydirium 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I liked the duel music a lot more than the other stuff. I think Ross almost definitely might have also written that. Also the logo music shows up Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: I liked the duel music a lot more than the other stuff. I think Ross almost definitely might have also written that. Also the logo music shows up I would assume the music at the end is also him. It’s gonna be real interesting if a soundtrack album comes out who will they credit for some cues or what even gets released. also he hints at vaders theme which makes me think he wasn’t able to use it Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: I liked the duel music a lot more than the other stuff. I think Ross almost definitely might have also written that. Also the logo music shows up I had the exact same initial thought but failed to follow it to the same sensible conclusion. I’ll bet you’re right. Where’s the logo music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, igger6 said: I had the exact same initial thought but failed to follow it to the same sensible conclusion. I’ll bet you’re right. Where’s the logo music? When the Inquisitress walks to the camera after the duel Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 For those disappointed - yes, in terms of musical continuity, they dropped the ball. However, I can totally see this a studio thing and Holt is simply filling in the gaps as per directions. No one at the studios knows Williams' scores intimately enough to ask her to include themes for characters like Qui Gon or the little motif for Mustafar. They just don't care and neither do a huge swathe of the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,037 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, Arpy said: For those disappointed - yes, in terms of musical continuity, they dropped the ball. However, I can totally see this a studio thing and Holt is simply filling in the gaps as per directions. No one at the studios knows Williams' scores intimately enough to ask her to include themes for characters like Qui Gon or the little motif for Mustafar. They just don't care and neither do a huge swathe of the audience. They seem to know enough to blast duel of the fates whenever Ewan is on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 The bad guy/gal music in this episode was awful. tee_oh and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: When the Inquisitress walks to the camera after the duel I can't find it. Reva walks toward the camera after one phase of the duel around 36:56, and the nameless second-tier inquisitress (Fourth Sister?) does the same around 40:00, but I don't hear it either time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, igger6 said: I can't find it. Reva walks toward the camera after one phase of the duel around 36:56, and the nameless second-tier inquisitress (Fourth Sister?) does the same around 40:00, but I don't hear it either time. Or it's around that area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 894 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, artguy360 said: The bad guy/gal music in this episode was awful. Totally agree. Until the duel, that is. Before that, it was the kind of stamping, unison horn of doom and drum of death that turned me off to (unpopular opinion?) The Batman. It's like a seventh grader is purposely taking larger steps than he has to and shouting, "BADASS!! BADASS!!" with every one to convince onlookers that he's a badass. It feels desperate. This show is becoming a bipolar listening experience indeed. Vulture's forthcoming Complete Oral History of the Disney Star Wars Era (watch for it in 2031) just gained another fascinating chapter. artus_grayboot and Tydirium 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Arpy said: For those disappointed - yes, in terms of musical continuity, they dropped the ball. However, I can totally see this a studio thing and Holt is simply filling in the gaps as per directions. No one at the studios knows Williams' scores intimately enough to ask her to include themes for characters like Qui Gon or the little motif for Mustafar. They just don't care and neither do a huge swathe of the audience. Well hold on, since when was this the domain of the studios? Shouldn't it be on the composer to be aware of the musical continuity given that they're writing the music? I doubt that it was anyone other than Michael Giacchino that decided to craft the beginning of the Vader's Castle cue (Krennic's Aspirations on the OST) to recall Williams tragic scoring for Anakin's fall in ROTS, or to include the Imperial motif from ANH as a secondary theme for Vader, or even to use the Death Star motif when the Death Star is first introduced. Same goes with Powell People are holding Natalie to a far lower standard than we normally do composers for Star Wars and I'm not entirely sure why, on the plus side it is making me appreciate the spin-off movie scores far more than I did initially EDIT: It's actually pretty interesting to compare the scoring given that Kenobi has very similar scenes to Rogue One: Trope, artus_grayboot, Madmartigan JC and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Howdy everyone. Wow this episode made me realize that they are dropping the ball musically big time. Spoiler We get a fragmented quote of the Imperial March when he corners Kenobi. And even the music that seems more Williamsy when he fights Kenobi seems quite bare in terms of harmonic/orchestration complexity. Overall, the score for this episode just seems to be doing the bare minimum amount of work - serving the picture, a little bit of extra effort in order to get the B- in terms of using orchestral colors, and nothing else. As a starting composer that’s trying to teach himself everything, I understand the want to do the bare minimum!! Writing music at a high level like Williams is really hard work. But this is Star Wars - a certain level of sophistication in the writing should be expected. Spoiler I mean, when Vader finished his conversation with Reva in his castle, I wish we had gotten something akin to this: https://youtu.be/MCuvTb_s9rY?t=108. That’s how it would’ve been played in the original Star Wars films! C’mon - this is a space opera!! Instead we got something I don’t even remember. Just generic, angsty music that sounds quite modern (and I don’t mean that as a compliment). Forgive me if I’m letting my emotions get the better of me on my writings, but I totally see and agree with what you all are saying in terms of wanting the music to be at a much higher level of sophistication. This, in addition to some parts being handled strangely Spoiler (how does Obi-Wan run away from Vader that many times on a level grounded area? If it were a system of tunnels or something, that scene could work. But I just don’t believe it as it’s currently presented) just make me a little upset as to how Star Wars might not be what it once was, and this show is contributing to that. Do better Lucasfilm! This is Star Wars. But, because I want to keep positive, Spoiler I do like seeing a symmetrical Vader in the vein of the original trilogy!!!! That, and the scenes between Obi and Leia, are what are keeping me invested. DarthDementous, Madmartigan JC, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 The only piece I found decent was the very start of the Spoiler duel. I'm assuming Ross did that one too since it starts with a quote of Obi-Wan's theme. No synth in that cue, just pure orchestra. Very refreshing, despite it being rather simplistic and not containing any familiar motifs. Not Mr. Big, Tydirium, artus_grayboot and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 4 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: I liked the duel music a lot more than the other stuff. I think Ross almost definitely might have also written that. Also the logo music shows up I've been re-listening through the episode, and I think you're right. I admit I wrongly judged that brass triplet spot a bit harshly initially; really I think it just felt jarring after all the RCP stuff I had been hearing. It does sound a lot closer to JW's style, and I also noticed that that cue actually starts a bit earlier, and continues to go on for quite a while... Notice how it's perfectly scored to line up with the scenes switching back and forth between Obi-Wan/Vader, Tala/Leia, and Reva. When Reva is snooping around, there is a very Star-Wars-y horn line that shows up a couple times (reminds me of the beginning of the new logo music), and the string writing for the Tala/Leia scenes also reminds me more of JW. The second brassy spot later in the duel actually reminds me a lot of Ross' score for Tale of Despereaux, namely this (start at 0:07): So, I think it's safe to say that he scored most of the duel! 1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said: The only piece I found decent was the very start of the Hide contents duel. I'm assuming Ross did that one too since it starts with a quote of Obi-Wan's theme. No synth in that cue, just pure orchestra. Very refreshing, despite it being rather simplistic and not containing any familiar motifs. Yep, I agree completely. Love that horn solo of the Obi-Wan theme! It felt very classic-Star-Wars, and really stood apart from everything up to that point. 3 hours ago, Gibster said: I would assume the music at the end is also him. It’s gonna be real interesting if a soundtrack album comes out who will they credit for some cues or what even gets released. also he hints at vaders theme which makes me think he wasn’t able to use it I swear, if the cue for the duel doesn't get released and properly credited... Considering the fact that I think there are going to be two digital soundtrack albums of three episodes each (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they really have no good reason to leave any of the Ross stuff off. Come to think of it, I wonder who is primarily editing together the album; I hope Ross' music gets adequately represented. And really, his name ought to be included on the cover. crumbs, artus_grayboot, DarthDementous and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post p0llux 392 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 After ep1 and ep2, I was hoping for the music to pick up and begin to sound more mature. However after watching ep3, we are now 50% done with the series. It is clear where the musical direction is going outside of Williams' theme. The massive missed opportunity to even hint a few notes of the Imperial March was the nail the coffin for me. I don't understand the decision to use the character theme for Obi-Wan, but disregard the use of character themes for Leia or Vader. Truly head scratching. badbu, rpvee, artus_grayboot and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I wonder if Williams told them to get fucked if they want to use his themes. He's like: I wrote you a damn Obi-Wan theme, you ingrates but don't you DARE touch my precious Leia and Vader themes AND ESPECIALLY NOT that Mustafar motif!' crumbs and tee_oh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, Arpy said: I wonder if Williams told them to get fucked if they want to use his themes. He's like: I wrote you a damn Obi-Wan theme, you ingrates but don't you DARE touch my precious Leia and Vader themes AND ESPECIALLY NOT that Mustafar motif!' I wonder if there's some truth to this, I've noticed the video games don't have this issue at all, and if it's true Williams is restricting usage of his themes then it would make sense it's not felt there because I doubt he's that across video games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 12 hours ago, Tydirium said: Why not give Bill Ross the whole show, then? I think everybody would have been happy if he was the main guy. This x 100 Tydirium and Luke Skywalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Ross would have been the perfect main-only composer for this series. Its a shame they wont let him shine. LSH, Manakin Skywalker, crumbs and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 214 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 It sounds a lot like the music during the fight at the end of episode 3 was by William Ross. Better yet, it's 90% free from any sound effects in the rear channel of the 5.1 mix...! If we don't get Ross's cues on the official soundtrack album, it won't be too difficult to make a personal edit of this track. The Ross cues were at a completely different scoring stage, with a different crew... I wonder whether Disney will even release Ross's cues... Perhaps it will warrant its own seperate album? I know that if they release both composers' work I'll be splitting them into seperate releases. I have little interest in listening to any of the music, aside from the Ross cues. Upon examining some of the Holt scenes, I've discovered that the rear channels often only contain the orchestral elements (along with sound effects). It's surprising to hear how much more tolerable the score is without the Zimmer-style percussion and synths... artus_grayboot and DarthDementous 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Antonb 118 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 im sure Holt is clever enough to put some of Williams empire music into her own work. Its A dumb decision made by the powers that be not to put the Imperial march in there . All of Vader's scenes would have been even more powerful with Mr williams music. However James Earl Jones kills it as Vader. artus_grayboot, Tydirium, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LSH 968 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Ross was always my top choice, tying with Powell. I always had high hopes, regardless of the composer, but I guess it's only now that we're hearing the final result, you wish they hadn't pissed around with it. I'm all for giving young new composers a chance to get on the ladder but it seems this was far too much of a prestige project to gamble on inexperience. Tydirium, Evanus, igger6 and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DangerMotif 1,037 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 This is the worst thing star wars has ever done musically. I don’t want to hear any complaints about Ludwig Goransson, Shirley or Giacchino, this is sooo much worse Courtney Sees Ghosts, Trope, Tiburon and 10 others 9 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,339 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 16 hours ago, Tydirium said: Why not give Bill Ross the whole show, then? I think everybody would have been happy if he was the main guy. Because he is busy doing orchestrations and conducting for The Fabelmans and Indy 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Gibster said: This is the worst thing star wars has ever done musically. I don’t want to hear any complaints about Ludwig Goransson, Shirley or Giacchino, this is sooo much worse Shirley's BoBF is the best I've heard in the live-action TV Star Wars realm thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Assuming those of you in the great down under are not seeing a Parts 1-3 digital release yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 You don't have to physically be in another country (or use VPN software to pretend to be) to see what's on iTunes in another countries, you can search yourself any time you like https://music.apple.com/nz/search Here is Natalie's Holt page, where it's clear there's no album yet https://music.apple.com/nz/artist/natalie-holt/921676056 It would also be on this page if there was an album: https://www.disneymusiclicensing.com/albums?orderBy=original_release_date&orderDest=desc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LSH 968 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 I'm guessing they'll just dump it all when the series has finished its run? Going by what we've heard so far, I can't imagine there's enough engaging material to make this a multi-volume release. Edmilson, DangerMotif and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, Gibster said: This is the worst thing star wars has ever done musically. I don’t want to hear any complaints about Ludwig Goransson, Shirley or Giacchino, this is sooo much worse Even worse then the techno episode of Clone Wars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now