Jay 37,042 Posted June 2, 2022 Author Share Posted June 2, 2022 Maybe they will do 1 album with William's theme and Ross's adaptations, and another album of Holt's stuff artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 371 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, Jay said: Maybe they will do 1 album with William's theme and Ross's adaptations, and another album of Holt's stuff I wonder which one of those they will sell more of?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LSH 964 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jay said: Maybe they will do 1 album with William's theme and Ross's adaptations, and another album of Holt's stuff Yeah, I can see the merits of this. Williams/Ross' and Holt's contributions are already starkly disparate experiences within the show... alone on the same album would be a wildly inconsistent listen. Tydirium, crumbs and artus_grayboot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Because I'm a dork who rewatches Star Wars things too many times, I've started to pick up more on specific leitmotifs. In an interview, Natalie mentioned how she gave characters "origin themes" and I picked up on Vader's. If you listen closely, the main two notes sound like they can lead directly into The Imperial March. Please bear with me that as much of a score lover as I am, I'm not very good with technical musical terms, so I'm gonna sound like a little girl. So Vader's leitmotif is mostly two notes going "BWAH BWAH!" Very loud, very harsh, very aggressive. I can easily imagine when Vader and Obi-Wan cross paths again, you can transform those two notes into The Imperial March. "BWAH BWAH Dun dun dun dun dun dun!" I have not read plots leaks and have no idea what's coming, but I can imagine the REAL duel is gonna have Obi-Wan's Theme and The Imperial March go at each other in a big piece. There are images of Natalie with her conductor and mentioned that she even sings on the score. Not to mention she talked about viola solos too. So the best has yet to come. I'm not trying to paint myself as superior to anyone just because I'm giving this score more props than some in this thread, but I'm really digging the score so far. Is it my favorite Disney era score? No, kinda hard to beat Solo (which is also my favorite score of all-time mind you). Of course I'd love more classical sounds (loved the cue during the first Vader vs. Kenobi fight), but I like Natalie's style for this too. Note: I'm listened to the main Obi-Wan theme (currently) 294 times already. So I'm quite enjoying myself. Yavar Moradi, mstrox, crumbs and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I think the Vader origin theme is pretty good in the more orchestral renditions towards the end (I believe William Ross worked it into some of his revisions) Courtney Sees Ghosts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 7,930 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Vader's origin theme? Karol Erik Woods, Tydirium, DangerMotif and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 My brother just showed me this video he found. What could have been... EDIT: LOL, posted this over at the main Star Wars sub on reddit: "It’s too loud for the scene. Focuses too much on Vader and not enough on the shock on Kenobi’s face. They did it better bud." "I think the score in the show matches the scene and tone better than this." "sorry mate but i'm not feelin' this." "There's more to Star Wars scoring than reusing old themes. There's a whole musical galaxy out there - you need to see that." I'm not saying that I think this "fix" is perfect; it's more like a temp track, and obviously it would have been done differently in the show if Ross or somebody scored it. Either way, I don't understand these people... It's depressing. Thankfully, I've seen a lot of SW fans elsewhere who have been calling out the problems with this show's score. Delorean90, Erik Woods, MikeH and 9 others 6 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,259 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Of course a generation raised on "epic music" by Lorne Balfe and Junkie XL is going to love the Obi-Wan score. Tydirium, Courtney Sees Ghosts, artus_grayboot and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Also, the main Star Wars subreddit I think is moderated by Disney people. Any criticism of modern Star Wars is not allowed. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 32 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Of course a generation raised on "epic music" by Lorne Balfe and Junkie XL is going to love the Obi-Wan score. Here's the thing: it's fine if these people like "epic music," whatever. But I don't understand how they fail to see that it just doesn't work in this particular case. I'm fine with watching a Pirates of the Caribbean movie and hearing the style of music that scores the Third Sister arriving at Fortress Inquisitorius. But I'm not fine with hearing that style in what is essentially Star Wars Episode 3.5. These people no doubt play Star Wars video games and have zero problem with Gordy Haab's music, they watch the classic Star Wars movies and have zero problem with Williams' music, etc. So it's not necessarily that they even have a problem with the classic Star Wars sound. Disney had nothing to lose by having this be a traditional SW score; everyone would have accepted the score and been thrilled. The frustrating thing is that there are people out there who—even though they would have been fine with a traditional score—will defend an inferior score that doesn't fit. The go-to argument seems to be that we are all just Williams purists who can't handle any other composers or musical styles... even though I enjoy Goransson's work, Kiner's work, the Star Wars Visions composers' work, and I'm sure I will enjoy Britell's work for Andor. It's such a simplistic viewpoint, and they're not taking the time to consider how this show is different from all the others. It's strange to me that we here at this forum seem to have a far better grasp on the importance of this show in the SW story (I mean, just consider the marketing, consider the show's place in the timeline, consider all the returning cast), than a lot of SW fans do. Evanus, artus_grayboot, Falstaft and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DiamondFire 67 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 4 hours ago, Antonb said: im sure Holt is clever enough to put some of Williams empire music into her own work. Its A dumb decision made by the powers that be not to put the Imperial march in there . All of Vader's scenes would have been even more powerful with Mr williams music. However James Earl Jones kills it as Vader. Vaders voice is achieved using respeecher. If you are wondering how it sounds so good it's due to JEJ recording a large amount of the dictionary + having recorded the sounds used to make up any word in multiple different inflections a few years ago. That coupled with other AI techniques and the vocal effect... well there we have it. 34 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Of course a generation raised on "epic music" by Lorne Balfe and Junkie XL is going to love the Obi-Wan score. ok boomer Courtney Sees Ghosts, Tydirium, enderdrag64 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 46 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Of course a generation raised on "epic music" by Lorne Balfe and Junkie XL is going to love the Obi-Wan score. Sad but true. artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 371 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 Solo is the 'other' episode 3.5, serving as a backstory for Han just like the Obi Wan show. It even has Chewie and Lando! Despite the score being a radical departure from the Williams pastiche, fans love it. Why is this? Apparently anything other then the Williams sound we are all so appreciate of is bad, yet these scores (Solo, Mandalorian, Boba Fett) are all well loved. Ironically, the one score that did try to replicate Williams' style (Rogue One) was ripped apart! Does it boil down to the use/mistreatment of Williams themes? If Obi Wan had plenty of imperial march and reprises of previous music with funky new renditions in addition to the soundscape Holt has crafted would people still have such a problem with it? Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,042 Posted June 2, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 22 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said: Solo is the 'other' episode 3.5, serving as a backstory for Han just like the Obi Wan show. It even has Chewie and Lando! Despite the score being a radical departure from the Williams pastiche, fans love it. Why is this? Because it's not actually a radical departure? artus_grayboot, Manakin Skywalker, Trope and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 371 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I dont think all the percussion and violin flourishes in 'Mimban Battle''s Imperial March were part of the Star Wars soundscape before Powell came along, so I would still call it a departure from the established sonic environment. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Captain solo 5 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Holt has disappointed me with this score. Musical continuity is an important aspect of Star Wars. She’s really disappointed a lot of fans because of this. rpvee, crumbs, Tiburon and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,423 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said: I dont think all the percussion and violin flourishes in 'Mimban Battle''s Imperial March were part of the Star Wars soundscape before Powell came along, so I would still call it a departure from the established sonic environment. That's only one cue. And aside the percussion (which have been the only thing not fully like from what I've seen) all the rest of the score is trully faithfull to Williams' music. Powell did a terrific use of The Adventures of Han, use the original themes with smoothness, no over utilisation or omission. He succeed to keep is own voice while using the original materials, crafting his music around Williams' themes. Giacchino use the original materials mostly as inserts which sounds sometimes out of place. Göransson didn't use any of themes because most of the character weren't legacy character (which IMO is a shame for some moment, proof that not every one enjoyed this departure from Williams' style). Holt followed Göransson decision even though she's scoring for Legacy Characters and that's where she failed (her or any person who pushed her in that direction). Why reinvented the most iconic theme of cinema? I like to think that one can always do better than what already exists but here it's clearly light years beneath what Williams wrote. greenturnedblue, DarthDementous, Tydirium and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 Just caught the latest ep, perhaps they wanted to have the shock in the silence as Vader approaches, but the absence of the imperial March, or even a hint of Battle of the Heroes is a sin against Star Wars and all human kind. Tydirium, Tiburon, Raiders of the SoundtrArk and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Van_Etten 111 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 KotOR games, though set almost 4000 years before the films, follow the classic orchestral Star Wars sensibilities more boldly than anything Obi-wan has achieved so far, even without the use of John's themes, except the main theme and force theme. It's perfectly doable. Evanus, enderdrag64, crumbs and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,790 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, DIamondFire said: Vaders voice is achieved using respeecher. If you are wondering how it sounds so good it's due to JEJ recording a large amount of the dictionary + having recorded the sounds used to make up any word in multiple different inflections a few years ago. That coupled with other AI techniques and the vocal effect... well there we have it. ok boomer Damn, so technically we could have jej vader voice for ever? if only they could have done that with our spanish dubber, who dies a few years ago and therefore didnt dub rogue one and subsequent films-shows. He had an excellent voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 371 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 1 hour ago, May the Force be with You said: Spoiler That's only one cue. And aside the percussion (which have been the only thing not fully like from what I've seen) all the rest of the score is trully faithfull to Williams' music. Powell did a terrific use of The Adventures of Han, use the original themes with smoothness, no over utilisation or omission. He succeed to keep is own voice while using the original materials, crafting his music around Williams' themes. Giacchino use the original materials mostly as inserts which sounds sometimes out of place. Göransson didn't use any of themes because most of the character weren't legacy character (which IMO is a shame for some moment, proof that not every one enjoyed this departure from Williams' style). Holt followed Göransson decision even though she's scoring for Legacy Characters and that's where she failed (her or any person who pushed her in that direction). Why reinvented the most iconic theme of cinema? I like to think that one can always do better than what already exists but here it's clearly light years beneath what Williams wrote. I see your point thanks for your reply. I appreciate each composers strengths and weaknesses and don't think anyones approach is downright "bad". That being the lack of thematic material in obi Wan is a serious misstep. The rest of her music is fine I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 https://www.instagram.com/tv/CeUXiUUAnil/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= A BTS look at the making of a cue in Episode 3. 3 hours ago, Edmilson said: Of course a generation raised on "epic music" by Lorne Balfe and Junkie XL is going to love the Obi-Wan score. "Curse the kids and their hippy dippy scores and their hippy dippy contraptions. Those infernal whippersnappers wouldn't know good music if it hit them on the keister." The Abe Simpson impression aside, their scores for Mad Max: Fury Road and Mission: Impossible - Fallout are pretty damn spectacular if I do say so myself. Granted those are the only scores of their's I would consider great. Although I have a soft spot for their scores for the Snyder Cut and Black Widow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CeUXiUUAnil/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= A BTS look at the making of a cue in Episode 3. "Curse the kids and their hippy dippy scores and their hippy dippy contraptions. Those infernal whippersnappers wouldn't know good music if it hit them on the keister." The Abe Simpson impression aside, their scores for Mad Max: Fury Road and Mission: Impossible - Fallout are pretty damn spectacular if I do say so myself. Granted those are the only scores of their's I would consider great. Although I have a soft spot for their scores for the Snyder Cut and Black Widow. Lol, why did you react with a sleepy emoji to my comment with that rescored video featuring "Anakin's Dark Deeds"? Does that John Williams music bore you, while "BWAAAA BWAAAA" is somehow exciting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 889 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 3 hours ago, DIamondFire said: Vaders voice is achieved using respeecher. Is there a source for this? It makes sense, since he sounds worlds better than in Rogue One or Rebels, but every article I’ve seen fails to mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,032 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, igger6 said: Is there a source for this? It makes sense, since he sounds worlds better than in Rogue One or Rebels, but every article I’ve seen fails to mention it. It lists a company in the credits igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tydirium said: Lol, why did you react with a sleepy emoji to my comment with that rescored video featuring "Anakin's Dark Deeds"? Does that John Williams music bore you, while "BWAAAA BWAAAA" is somehow exciting? I'm still trying to figure out how these reactions work. I just wanted to do a thumbs up. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,166 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 I guess it makes sense now why they waited so long to announce her as the composer: they were waiting to see if Bill Ross was able to write enough music, fast enough, to give him the main credit. 😆😩 Seriously though, here's my best guess at what happened: Holt gets hired, writes and records much if not all of her score. Either test audiences or someone high up is not happy, and realizes they've got a problem on their hands. They don't want to announce her and then have to later announce that she's been replaced (partly because of the optics in 2022 of potentially replacing "the first female Star Wars composer" with an old white male), so they hold off and see what can be done about it. Kathleen Kennedy reaches out to John Williams and asks if he can do it, but he responds "I only want to write a theme for Benny" (lol, part of me really does wonder if that was the context of that quote, but they spun it for their own PR purposes), but he suggests William Ross to help "fix" the score. JW writes his Obi-Wan theme in two weeks, effectively replacing Holt's Obi-Wan theme. Ross takes JW's theme and starts arranging and adapting it for various scenes in the show. He also tackles bigger moments like the Vader/Obi-Wan duel (and likely, more scenes in future episodes), that the higher ups feel absolutely do not work with Holt's score. Eventually, they do decide to announce Holt as the composer (likely because there's simply not enough time for Ross to replace virtually everything), but Ross still gets a high-level listing in the end credits, purportedly just for adapting the Obi-Wan theme... even though in truth he obviously did much more than just that, and ended up replacing multiple other big cues that were originally written by Holt/her team. What do you think? I don't think it's an unreasonable theory, given what we know. 1 hour ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said: I'm still trying to figure out how these reactions work. I just wanted to do a thumbs up. Lol Ohhh, my bad. Sorry! EDIT: It’s also possible that the Vader/Obi duel was originally scored with Holt’s Kenobi theme, and that that’s why Ross scored that cue… But I’m still leaning more towards my theory that they were considering replacing her completely, due to how long they waited to announce her. Fabulin, Brónach, rpvee and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DarthDementous 1,043 Posted June 2, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2022 3 hours ago, DIamondFire said: Vaders voice is achieved using respeecher. If you are wondering how it sounds so good it's due to JEJ recording a large amount of the dictionary + having recorded the sounds used to make up any word in multiple different inflections a few years ago. That coupled with other AI techniques and the vocal effect... well there we have it. ok boomer Respeecher needs an original performance as a basis, it can’t create inflections or emphasis out of nothing If not JEJ, someone spoke those original lines and then it was converted into 80s Vader JEJ 2 hours ago, Van_Etten said: KotOR games, though set almost 4000 years before the films, follow the classic orchestral Star Wars sensibilities more boldly than anything Obi-wan has achieved so far, even without the use of John's themes, except the main theme and force theme. It's perfectly doable. Don’t forget the interesting variation of the Emperor’s theme to represent the Sith! Yes, these scores fit within the Star Wars lexicon extremely well and bring some fantastic and iconic new leitmotifs of their own, I don’t understand why this isn’t the approach across all of Star Wars and not just the video games enderdrag64, artus_grayboot and Tydirium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 889 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 Man, sounds like I really need to check out the KOTOR scores! Also, I'll be curious to watch the inevitable Disney Gallery: Obi-Wan documentary to see if there's been some breakthrough in Respeecher technology. Luke sounded creepy and horrible in both his Mando and Boba appearances, but Vader sounds like a million credits. DarthDementous, SilverTrumpet and artus_grayboot 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,850 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, igger6 said: Man, sounds like I really need to check out the KOTOR scores! UMG just started sending out copyright strikes for KOTOR 2 music (27 tracks specifically) all of which had hidden names. Seems an official release for the score might be in the works! I mentioned this last week on the Discord. enderdrag64, Raiders of the SoundtrArk, artus_grayboot and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, igger6 said: Man, sounds like I really need to check out the KOTOR scores! Check out the games DarthDementous and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: UMG just started sending out copyright strikes for KOTOR 2 music (27 tracks specifically) all of which had hidden names. Seems an official release for the score might be in the works! I mentioned this last week on the Discord. So cool! And wait - what Discord? I want in!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,043 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 hours ago, igger6 said: Man, sounds like I really need to check out the KOTOR scores! Also, I'll be curious to watch the inevitable Disney Gallery: Obi-Wan documentary to see if there's been some breakthrough in Respeecher technology. Luke sounded creepy and horrible in both his Mando and Boba appearances, but Vader sounds like a million credits. As a taste, here's an example of what I think is a very effective new Star Wars theme: 'Jedi Ruins'. Small bit of context, but this plays in the ruins of an old abandoned Jedi Enclave (never would've guessed huh) and does a very good job at setting the wistful mood and giving the sense of something that wants to rise to its former glory but can't. It's fairly bare in its soundscape but I think that works towards the feeling of isolation and hollowness: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laserschwert 472 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 Woah, if the KoTOR scores should really get official releases, that would close some kind of circle for me. You must know, in the early 2000s I ran a website called "LucasArts Soundtracks", which is by now long abandoned. You can still find snapshots of it HERE, but when LucasArts contacted me to take down all Star Wars and Indy related downloads (they were fine with me keeping their own IPs' music available), I at least added ripping and naming guides for the two KoTOR games. (KoTOR here and KoTOR II here). I've used gameplay videos of the games to come up with proper track titles (plus the music player included in KoTOR II provided some more names), and I've seen my exact track listings used in several uploads of the soundtracks over the years. I'm proud to say that I'm also partially responsible for the second game to get a high quality music patch, because I pestered Mark Griskey long enough until he gauged interest for it and shortly after a patch got released. Manakin Skywalker, Cerebral Cortex, artus_grayboot and 2 others 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,043 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Laserschwert said: Woah, if the KoTOR scores should really get official releases, that would close some kind of circle for me. You must know, in the early 2000s I ran a website called "LucasArts Soundtracks", which is by now long abandoned. You can still find snapshots of it HERE, but when LucasArts contacted me to take down all Star Wars and Indy related downloads (they were fine with me keeping their own IPs' music available), I at least added ripping and naming guides for the two KoTOR games. (KoTOR here and KoTOR II here). I've used gameplay videos of the games to come up with proper track titles (plus the music player included in KoTOR II provided some more names), and I've seen my exact track listings used in several uploads of the soundtracks over the years. I'm proud to say that I'm also partially responsible for the second game to get a high quality music patch, because I pestered Mark Griskey long enough until he gauged interest for it and shortly after a patch got released. Hah, small world! I am very thankful to you and Mr. Griskey for the HQ music patch, it does a huge service to the score and the experience in and out of the game I heard there was some kind of debacle between Griskey and Lucasfilm, it really comes across that he and many of the other video game composers are not treated with nearly the value or respect they deserve and it's sad to think that may prevent him from ever working on the franchise again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserschwert 472 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, DarthDementous said: I heard there was some kind of debacle between Griskey and Lucasfilm, it really comes across that he and many of the other video game composers are not treated with nearly the value or respect they deserve I think that was related to "The Old Republic", where the composers had to churn out hours and hours of music under too tight deadlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ocelot 508 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 4:22 PM, MikeH said: Regarding why there’s not an abundance of legacy themes in what is essentially Star Wars Ep 3.5…Maybe @ocelot can chime in as I know he’s had some insight in the past as to how protective Williams can be over the use and execution of his themes by other composers. See Rogue One and then Williams’ subsequent heavy involvement in Solo. I’m just speculating, but using Bill Ross to specifically adapt his new theme for several cues and the end credits probably means Williams wants control over how his themes are presented in this context. Otherwise why not just give the new theme over to the four other composers involved for those cues? No idea. All I know is that she could not come up with a theme and Kathleen went to Williams to come up with one for Obi Wan. That i know is true. I personally do not think Holt is a good composer on something like Star Wars. It's all bland and has no emotional impact. I did like some of the scoring in episode three though, there is some syncopation and some rhythmic ideas, HOWEVER, what BEWILDERS me beyond belief is that we see Darth Vader and the pay off would have been huge with the Imperial March and we don't even get a hint of it? Even in Mandalorian, when they talk about Yoda, you hear his theme, when Luke uses the force, we get the force theme. What on earth is going on here?! What IDIOT green lit no use of the Imperial March. Yes Williams does not want certain composers mishandling his themes but you have Bill Ross here who can arrange any and all Williams themes specifically for when they are needed like with Vader and Force theme usage. I also agree with whomever said, why not give the whole show to Bill Ross. As a gay man I understand the whole "diversity" and "inclusion" hence Holt being named composer so they can say, oh look, we hired a woman here (again something I heard in the Hollywood grapevine). But I also think get the best person for the job. artus_grayboot, Evanus, MikeH and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 13 hours ago, Jay said: Because it's not actually a radical departure? and because it's fun Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DarthDementous 1,043 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 36 minutes ago, Laserschwert said: I think that was related to "The Old Republic", where the composers had to churn out hours and hours of music under too tight deadlines. Hmm, I don't think so. This was something that he talked about end of last year: Griskey's Twitter in general is quite interesting, he was recently-ish talking about how he wants to release a 5.1 version of the KOTOR 2 soundtrack officially and is trying to get that done through the official channels. Might explain the recent DMCAs However, it's also quite sad. His house burnt down in February (and took the life of his pet sadly) and he's had to pick his life up from the pieces. I don't think he's doing well financially thanks to the fire and him allegedly getting fucked over in his contract with Lucasfilm, and it seems he's more than keen to compose for Star Wars again but no one at Lucasfilm is giving him the time of day despite his illustrious career with them. Complete and utter waste of talent, it seems like it's the same story with a lot of the absolute legends who worked on the pre-Disney expanded universe content, although some of them refused to contribute to the new era due to creative differences Manakin Skywalker, Van_Etten, Yavar Moradi and 6 others 3 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SilverTrumpet 638 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 I was chatting with him once about him trying to get KOTOR 2's soundtrack released and I think he made some comment about how it was looking very promising...for whatever that's worth. I know we're supposed to hate Jeremey Soule now. He seems like a weird guy, but that's not relevant to the fact that he wrote some stunning music for KOTOR 1. With that said, KOTOR 2 is easily the better score for the live orchestra alone. This is why I get so angry at people who've been Star Wars fans for five minutes. They claim all this weird different sounding in new Star Wars media can be whatever it wants to be because the only established Star Wars sound is the movies and it's time to branch out from that. There was a clear Star Wars sound for decades. Not everyone is a John Williams imitator like Haab (who I generally like a lot), but there was still distinctive Star Wars DNA in all of these scores. It's the same thing as when they didn't have an opening crawl for Rogue One and Solo, and the excuse was that only the main saga films had opening crawls and that's what made them distinctive. Again, that's how you can spot that a person is trying to speak from some authority and doesn't know their shit. DarthDementous, MikeH and artus_grayboot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Obi 404 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 I really enjoy all SW scores composed by aother composers, even Joseph Shirley on BooK of Boba Fett did a good stuff. But this is the first time that I am extremely disappointed. There is nothing, it's generic like all TV shows. The Theme of Obi-Wan by Williams is great, I love it, but it's only on the first episode. A new theme for Leia ? Really ? And Vader too (a brass thing with 2 notes) it's not there have allready 2 of the best thèes of musical film history. I don't understand what's happenning here. Next time, call Stephen Barton and Gordy Haab instead of the last marvel composer in the move... artus_grayboot, ocelot, John F and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,032 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Have we even heard "Leia's new theme" since the first episode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 214 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 21 hours ago, Jay said: Maybe they will do 1 album with William's theme and Ross's adaptations, and another album of Holt's stuff I would LOVE this, however I think it's wishful thinking to expect a release of any of Ross's adaptations. We'll get an album of Holt's score, but we'll be incredibly lucky to get any of the Ross cues - unless they play a massive role in the later episodes... artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_Etten 111 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I don't think so. Maybe the Alderaan's theme is mistaken for Leia's new theme, but we don't really hear it anytime after Alderaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igger6 889 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, Van_Etten said: I don't think so. Maybe the Alderaan's theme is mistaken for Leia's new theme, but we don't really hear it anytime after Alderaan. That's a good point. Holt said she scored planets, and its being an Alderaan theme would both absolve her of trying to re-do one of the most iconic themes in the series and explain why it hasn't shown up again. But I think that's also a good argument for why character themes are necessary, with or without place themes. Places just sit there. They can change over time, and their themes can reflect that on subsequent visits, but they're not capable of the minute-to-minute permutations of emotion and action that characters are, so there are fewer opportunities to develop their themes in a longer work. All in all, a lack of character themes makes for a less compelling musical narrative and an abdication of the use of one of the most potent tools in Roger Ebert's "empathy machine." artus_grayboot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Luke Skywalker 1,790 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 Damn, it was depressing to read those mark griskey comments. I hope he works again someday 🙁 enderdrag64, MikeH, artus_grayboot and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 31 minutes ago, igger6 said: Holt said she scored planets Holt's The Planets Tydirium, eitam, DarthDementous and 19 others 2 16 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,097 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Van_Etten said: I don't think so. Maybe the Alderaan's theme is mistaken for Leia's new theme, but we don't really hear it anytime after Alderaan. Listen again at 40:22 in Ep. 3 -- a minor variation of Young Leia's theme (which I like very much!). Here's a transcription of the theme on its first clear appearance in Ep. 1 for reference. Young Leia Also, for the interested, here are transcriptions of the new(ish) Stormtrooper theme from Episode 3, and the new Vader theme, from the beginning of their due. Stormtroopers Nu-Vader artus_grayboot, ragoz350, BrotherSound and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,343 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I'm so grateful that Jurassic talk is more fun than what you guys get up to. mstrox and LSH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 964 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Falstaft said: Listen again at 40:22 in Ep. 3 -- a minor variation of Young Leia's theme (which I like very much!). Here's a transcription of the theme on its first clear appearance in Ep. 1 for reference. Quickly got the keyboard out to play this and I do recognise it now. It wasn't too prominant when I watched but yeah that's it. It's pretty. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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