Popular Post michael_grig 472 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, Falstaft said: Nu-Vader I think, the theme for Vader itself sounds very good, the problem is that there is already a better one. LSH, Tydirium, MikeH and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,481 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 I always loved Vader's Theme from Star Wars '77. Andy, Obi, DarthDementous and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 You can tell that Natalie Holt really relished writing the first ever theme for Darth Vader. LSH, Manakin Skywalker, Andy and 5 others 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 11 hours ago, Laserschwert said: and I've seen my exact track listings used in several uploads of the soundtracks over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post toothless 963 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just watched ep 3… I will preface this by saying I loved Loki's score and am by no mean a Nathalie Holt hater or anything. I will also say that I found Powell's score for Solo to be great so I'm not just shittalking because it's not Williams score. But wow… the music in that episode was so bad… the music itself was bored to death and so was I. How can you possibly end up with this! There's something fishy imho. Stark, Not Mr. Big, Edmilson and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LSH 968 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 I'll just rephrase what I said before. I have absolutely nothing against Holt - I'm sure she'll make a decent name of herself eventually - but this was most definitely not the time to be experimenting with new talent. As a lot of you said, with The Mandalorian it made sense to go off-tradition and the results were mixed but worked well overall. This, however, when you're dealing with legacy characters in a gap between two massive legacy 'eras'... it should have been fucking obvious what the requirements are. Andy, Tiburon, Not Mr. Big and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderdrag64 624 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 On 02/06/2022 at 3:59 PM, DIamondFire said: Vaders voice is achieved using respeecher. If you are wondering how it sounds so good it's due to JEJ recording a large amount of the dictionary + having recorded the sounds used to make up any word in multiple different inflections a few years ago. That coupled with other AI techniques and the vocal effect... well there we have it. ok boomer Oh wow I was curious why he sounded so much better than in Rogue One. That makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Yeah, it caught me by surprise too. I'd never heard of this re-shpeeching technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,127 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 There’s a way to redeem this. Weird Al shows up in the finale to sing updated lyrics to “The Saga Begins”. He gets a credit after William Ross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 I’ve been keeping an eye on the discussion about this show in forums that have nothing to do with music and I’m consistently seeing people notice and lament the lack of iconic themes in this show - even from those positive about the show on the whole If it is actually this widespread then this feedback may get back to Lucasfilm Stark, enderdrag64, rpvee and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 minute ago, DarthDementous said: I’ve been keeping an eye on the discussion about this show in forums that have nothing to do with music and I’m consistently seeing people notice and lament the lack of iconic themes in this show - even from those positive about the show on the whole If it is actually this widespread then this feedback may get back to Lucasfilm They apparently (according to Holt herself) hired Holt because of a twitter petition so anything's possible Evanus, Tydirium and Andy 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DangerMotif 1,037 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Not Mr. Big said: They apparently (according to Holt herself) hired Holt because of a twitter petition so anything's possible We really gotta figure out what wen’t down behind the scenes with this score enderdrag64, Tydirium and artus_grayboot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just now, Gibster said: We really gotta figure out what wen’t down behind the scenes with this score Disaster MikeH, Tydirium, Edmilson and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: They apparently (according to Holt herself) hired Holt because of a twitter petition so anything's possible I don’t think I’ve seen such a naked example of composing for Star Wars TV being a popularity contest, yikes The buck still stops with Lucasfilm though, they would’ve had to have made the call that Nathalie would be suited for the role regardless of how many people expressed their interest in it. I think that’s why I see the problem lying more in vision and management, since they’re the one choosing the ingredients so to speak Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 36 minutes ago, DarthDementous said: I’ve been keeping an eye on the discussion about this show in forums that have nothing to do with music and I’m consistently seeing people notice and lament the lack of iconic themes in this show - even from those positive about the show on the whole If it is actually this widespread then this feedback may get back to Lucasfilm I told a non-music friend about how much the score stunk, and he keeps sending me people on Star Wars forums that specifically note the music being disappointing. So at least from what I've seen, that seems to be the case. 35 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: They apparently (according to Holt herself) hired Holt because of a twitter petition so anything's possible That's exactly how they came up with the entire plot to The Rise of Palpatine. Where did she say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said: I told a non-music friend about how much the score stunk, and he keeps sending me people on Star Wars forums that specifically note the music being disappointing. So at least from what I've seen, that seems to be the case. That's exactly how they came up with the entire plot to The Rise of Palpatine. Where did she say this? Her twitter photo with JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,127 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: They apparently (according to Holt herself) hired Holt because of a twitter petition so anything's possible For real? If I had a nickel for every time people told me Internet petitions are useless… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Something something Snyder cut Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 13 minutes ago, Andy said: For real? If I had a nickel for every time people told me Internet petitions are useless… That's where the JW cameo came from too Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,127 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Wow, I didn’t know that either. And why do I still not have an Oma Tres action figure? greenturnedblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sees Ghosts 269 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 5 hours ago, Gibster said: We really gotta figure out what wen’t down behind the scenes with this score I gotta say it, I find it a little sus that people are looking for conspiracy theories for the first SW score by a woman. Tom Guernsey, DarthDementous, Tydirium and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 46 minutes ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said: I gotta say it, I find it a little sus that people are looking for conspiracy theories for the first SW score by a woman. I hold baseless accusations of sexism to the same regard I hold accusations that someone was only hired for the sake of diversity You should’ve seen the theory-crafting at the time of Giacchino’s Rogue One, oof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 1 hour ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said: I gotta say it, I find it a little sus that people are looking for conspiracy theories for the first SW score by a woman. It's got nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman, and everything to do with the fact that the score rejects the usage of themes audiences know and expect, despite the fact that Star Wars has such a wealth of well-known themes built up for these different characters. That, and the fact that the music identity for this show seems to be in conflict with itself: part of it is largely non-thematic and/or uses new themes for characters with pre-existing themes, overall in a more modern RCP, Zimmer style; and other bits use the Kenobi theme with an orchestra, written in the vein of Williams. They are vastly different approaches, so it's jarring. It just makes one wonder how we got to this point. Tydirium, Madmartigan JC and DarthDementous 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,167 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 1 hour ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said: I gotta say it, I find it a little sus that people are looking for conspiracy theories for the first SW score by a woman. What do you mean? You don’t think it’s strange that they waited so abnormally long to announce her? (They even announced the Andor composer before her, and that show comes out even later.) You don’t think it’s strange that her Obi-Wan theme was replaced at the last minute with a theme by John Williams? You don’t think it’s strange that she wasn’t allowed to adapt JW’s theme in her score, and instead one of his decades-long collaborators Bill Ross was hired? You don’t think it’s strange that Bill Ross apparently ended up doing way more than simply integrating JW’s theme, to the point that he even scored big sequences like the Obi-Wan vs. Vader duel? You don’t think it’s strange that Ross gets a big listing all to himself in the credits, right after Holt’s name, rather than appearing later with the additional music composers? You don’t think it’s strange that this is a show full of legacy characters set between the PT and OT, and yet not a single JW legacy theme has shown up yet? Come on, there are way too many things out of the ordinary here. Frankly I find it ridiculous that you could think the desire to make sense of all this, is rooted in sexism. We would be just as curious (and upset at the problems with this score) if this were a male composer. ThePenitentMan1, Andy, Stark and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 A lot of interesting clues have been left by Holt herself too. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HunterTech 994 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 After the whole Captain Marvel situation where that was more of a blatant effort to disparage Pinar Toprak (for which Giacchino had to step up and clarify things), I can see being a little suspicious of a similar thing happening in a later Disney franchise (that is currently going through lesser fans review bombing the series because the crew decided to defend one of the lead actors from online attacks). However, with how transparent Holt herself is about things having been a bit different prior to JW coming in (plus the way the credits are lined up so blatantly like it is for Ad Astra/Age of Ultron), there's definitely a larger implication of behind the scenes fuckery that goes beyond the previous instance of a composer needing help on her first big project (which is far more understandable for a character that had no on screen history prior). DarthDementous, Evanus, Brónach and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artguy360 1,843 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 As a film music fan, I don't mind that a Star Wars show is comfortable establishing its own musical identity without JW themes. That might not be my preference but I don't mind the decision. So far, I just haven't liked the music much at all. And without an official release, I can't fully judge or appreciate the music on its own. I'm still curious about this score. It's not a complete snoozefest yet. Andy, artus_grayboot and Brando 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 On 02/06/2022 at 11:43 AM, Counterparts said: Even worse then the techno episode of Clone Wars? I'm glad you bring this up, because it makes me realize that I'm being a bit hypocritical in my criticism of the Kenobi score. I really like the music for The Clone Wars, but that has some stuff that recalls Zimmer (the upfront percussion is what comes to my mind. Also the techno stuff like you said - it is a huge departure from the JW material, but the little 10 year old me thought it was awesome when I heard it on one of the promotional websites and in the video games!) And The Clone Wars show really makes a point to not reuse familiar themes unless it seemed absolutely necessary (Filoni's thoughts really. For example, I remember him saying that they didn't use the Force theme unless it made sense to do so). But then, why didn't they use Anakin's theme from Ep. 1? Why didn't they use Across the Stars for all of Anakin and Padmé's scenes together, and instead used a new theme? Why didn't they have a Kenobi theme for this show that was then carried over into this show? The logic for these questions is similar to what I just recently argued for this show, but I never really questioned those things as a kid because I didn't think in those terms/didn't care! I had a feeling that maybe I was going over the top with my opinions on the music for the Kenobi show, but now I am a little more balanced in it. My opinion will be better formed once the score releases, I soak that in, and then rewatch the show with those themes in mind. I can only speak for myself personally, but I guess when I get down to it, I wish this score was more orchestral, and that it used themes we know from earlier films for familiar characters, planets, etc. But I want that for every Star Wars project - I'm very old school and am very aware of that bias. I know that my opinion is not everyone else's here in this thread, and I say that because I don't want to paint in broad strokes what everyone thinks here - "Oh well the people here just want what we've always gotten." That's not true for everyone here. But for myself personally, that is absolutely true, and I'm not afraid to admit it!! I didn't really care for the Mando, Boba Fett, Bad Batch, Clone Wars S7 scores except for the moments that used orchestral colors. That's what I'm mainly attracted to. That and good melodic development, strong use of harmony, and engaging orchestration. And of course if it supports the story. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 7 hours ago, HunterTech said: After the whole Captain Marvel situation where that was more of a blatant effort to disparage Pinar Toprak (for which Giacchino had to step up and clarify things) oh wow what happened? a lot of this blablabla females and blablaba first female composer wouldn't be such an issue if writing music for orchestra hadn't been such a closed off boys club for so long (and often performing it too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aj_vader 534 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 Kenobi VS Vader ‘Music’ 3.52-4.16 https://youtu.be/7Bsa4Nq1TuI?t=232 Was this the temp track? 7.24- to end. https://youtu.be/4FgHkfi-9Cs?t=444 MaxTheHouseelf, DangerMotif, Trope and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, aj_vader said: Kenobi VS Vader ‘Music’ 3.52-4.16 https://youtu.be/7Bsa4Nq1TuI?t=232 Was this the temp track? 7.24- to end. https://youtu.be/4FgHkfi-9Cs?t=444 Lol, that explains why that was my least favorite part of the cue. Unbelievable, you get William Ross and you try to make him write like Hans Zimmer? aj_vader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brónach 1,302 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 i feel like there has been repeated behind the scenes infighting about how the score is supposed to sound like Falstaft, artus_grayboot, crumbs and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 18 minutes ago, aj_vader said: Kenobi VS Vader ‘Music’ 3.52-4.16 https://youtu.be/7Bsa4Nq1TuI?t=232 Is the theme at 2:01 Holt's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: Is the theme at 2:01 Holt's? I’ve wondered about that. For some reason the string section there sounds really fake to my ears. The phrasing of the notes sounds really unnatural and disjointed, with strange little swells. Almost sounds like a computer mock-up with samples… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tydirium said: I’ve wondered about that. For some reason the string section there sounds really fake to my ears. The phrasing of the notes sounds really unnatural and disjointed, with strange little swells. Almost sounds like a computer mock-up with samples… I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 41 minutes ago, aj_vader said: Kenobi VS Vader ‘Music’ 3.52-4.16 https://youtu.be/7Bsa4Nq1TuI?t=232 Was this the temp track? 7.24- to end. https://youtu.be/4FgHkfi-9Cs?t=444 Dang. Wish we had gotten something so much better for that bit now. 😢 Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,314 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 24 minutes ago, Tydirium said: I’ve wondered about that. For some reason the string section there sounds really fake to my ears. The phrasing of the notes sounds really unnatural and disjointed, with strange little swells. Almost sounds like a computer mock-up with samples… To my ears, almost everything supposedly attributed to Holt sounds like a cheap synth mockup. Any orchestral elements are barely perceptible, or so heavily processed they might as well be synth. Tydirium and Andy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post p0llux 398 Posted June 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 12 hours ago, CourtneyNeedsAW said: I gotta say it, I find it a little sus that people are looking for conspiracy theories for the first SW score by a woman. I can acknowledge the patriarchal society we live in and especially in film music. However, if this score was written by a man, we would've roasted him the same. The sus activity from Disney and the sus performance of this score are the issues at hand, not the composer's gender. Raiders of the SoundtrArk, artus_grayboot, Andy and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 2 hours ago, aj_vader said: Kenobi VS Vader ‘Music’ 3.52-4.16 https://youtu.be/7Bsa4Nq1TuI?t=232 Was this the temp track? 7.24- to end. https://youtu.be/4FgHkfi-9Cs?t=444 Speculation on my end here. But I hear this note progression, whatever you want to call it, a ton in modern scores. It's like a cheap emotional rip-off of the Force theme. A shorthand for "this moment's really important, so pay attention?" I hear it in Brian Tyler's work from MW3 and Thor, and even in Bad Batch S1 (I believe when they're in the mine carts on Ord Mantell.) It's pretty interesting that that has developed, actually. Almost like how an upward note progression has become equated with religious transcendence, like with Franz Liszt's music to represent Christ, and in this case, how the world of film music has the Force theme to signify something greater than the sum of its parts occurring at a particular moment in the film. But of course other composers can't use that theme, so it's been reduced in shorthand to the key or notes that take you on an upward trajectory. B, C#, D, E, and then back to B. Sometimes F# after E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 2 hours ago, crumbs said: To my ears, almost everything supposedly attributed to Holt sounds like a cheap synth mockup. Any orchestral elements are barely perceptible, or so heavily processed they might as well be synth. i bet she didn't even have an orchestra, either because she was told or she was denied it. the same way the show looks cheap and unlike the movies that sandwich it. 2 hours ago, p0llux said: I can acknowledge the patriarchal society we live in and especially in film music. However, if this score was written by a man, we would've roasted him the same. The sus activity from Disney and the sus performance of this score are the issues at hand, not the composer's gender. I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave 217 Posted June 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2022 I watched Episodes 1 & 2 so far and it baffles me how Holt not uses Williams' Themes... so I rescored the Rooftop Fight / Leia's Rescue scene (more or less in JW's style) with Obi's Theme, Leia's Theme and the Force Theme. I kept what I think is Reva's Theme because I quite liked it. rpvee, enderdrag64, Chewy and 9 others 7 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,167 Posted June 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave said: I watched Episodes 1 & 2 so far and it baffles me how Holt not uses Williams' Themes... so I rescored the Rooftop Fight / Leia's Rescue scene (more or less in JW's style) with Obi's Theme, Leia's Theme and the Force Theme. I kept what I think is Reva's Theme because I quite liked it. Man, nice job integrating Obi-Wan’s theme into the latter part of the Force theme!!! enderdrag64, michael_grig, crumbs and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Yeah it feels very natural Fabulin and GerateWohl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave said: I watched Episodes 1 & 2 so far and it baffles me how Holt not uses Williams' Themes... so I rescored the Rooftop Fight / Leia's Rescue scene (more or less in JW's style) with Obi's Theme, Leia's Theme and the Force Theme. I kept what I think is Reva's Theme because I quite liked it. Hearing the Force theme there feels SO good. Thank you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,365 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave said: I watched Episodes 1 & 2 so far and it baffles me how Holt not uses Williams' Themes... so I rescored the Rooftop Fight / Leia's Rescue scene (more or less in JW's style) with Obi's Theme, Leia's Theme and the Force Theme. I kept what I think is Reva's Theme because I quite liked it. Great Job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Miz 139 Posted June 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2022 It's not so much the lack of existing themes that lets this score down. It's the lack of carrying, or even noticing, the dramatic contours of this (albeit flatly directed and edited) show. From planetary reveals, ship take-offs and landings, dramatic reveals, dialogue and scene transitions, this score has it covered... as in, just covered over in simplistic mood music (or, cut to mood music suddently, as in the Ep 2 Vader reveal). Where Williams, or Ludwig Gorransson, would trade in flourishes, instrumental variety, contrasts in tone, and real melodic strength, this score barely manages the drama on-screen. But the lack of even tonally nodding to the legacy themes is a deficit (as Giacchino, Powell and Gorransson have all done, quite aside from quoting them outright). This is all the more disappointing because the new material here is not up to the job. artus_grayboot, crumbs, enderdrag64 and 11 others 11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artus_grayboot 77 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Give me a break! Seriously? mstrox and Tydirium 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Dave said: I watched Episodes 1 & 2 so far and it baffles me how Holt not uses Williams' Themes... so I rescored the Rooftop Fight / Leia's Rescue scene (more or less in JW's style) with Obi's Theme, Leia's Theme and the Force Theme. I kept what I think is Reva's Theme because I quite liked it. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Perhaps they should have gone with an AI fed an exclusive diet of JW Star Wars score. They're ready doing with some of the voices so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Van_Etten 111 Posted June 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2022 I tell you, bring Don Davis to Star Wars! Edmilson, artus_grayboot and Tydirium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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