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Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)


Jay

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It was definitely the best score yet. It's still obvious which cues are Holt and which are Ross, but I think both did their best work in this episode (despite Holt's music sounding so depressingly RCP-ified).

 

Ross did some very clever hints at the Imperial March without actually stating the theme (when Vader is marching through the tunnel, towards the end). It sounded like he was quoting Holt material too, which is interesting.

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1 hour ago, Van_Etten said:

Some parts were better, especially the violin part when Tala dies, but not much. BTW Big John had another orchestrator credit on this one.

 

Interesting... now we'll all be guessing which cue. Maybe Obi's big speech before the Imperial attack?

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3 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I heard some Imperial March nods in the episode.

 

This was the best episode up to now. And hope the last episode is even better.

Maybe my overall feeling of the show will be a bit different.

The familiar music during the "tatooine" bit at the end was so good!

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I don't think only "hardcore" places correctly use "cues" to talk about film music compositions, it's really only general public social media that accidentally calls these compositions "songs"

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I don't think only "hardcore" places correctly use "cues" to talk about film music compositions, it's really only general public social media that accidentally calls these compositions "songs"

I was meant to use the word "music". Usually on the internet you can use either and people will understand lol

 

I think I've been specific every other time I've spoken so just one slip up

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Anyone catch the REALLY subtle nods to The Imperial March in this episode? All the music in this episode was something else.

And Natalie's Stormtrooper theme is way more bad ass than it has any right to be. Can't wait to see what her and Ross cook up for the finalel. Music just keeps getting better and better. This show's music just hits a sweet spot for me.

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While the show is overall moving in the right direction (for my tastes), I'm still lukewarm on the music. I don't think it'll get Natalie dragged to the Hague, but I'm not terribly keen on it myself. Even the main theme (which has become increasingly easier for me to pick out in recent episodes) doesn't really get me going.

 

That "action" ostinato (short-short long, short-short long) tends to overstay its welcome for me and always feels strangely under-tempo. I yearn for metric variety and notes in upbeat pockets.

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13 hours ago, DIamondFire said:

I was meant to use the word "music". Usually on the internet you can use either and people will understand lol

 

I think I've been specific every other time I've spoken so just one slip up

I love it. This relieves so much of the tension/grandstanding I feel when I write here - we all need a laugh!

This episode was awesome - best one yet! Music was markedly better as well. I think I'm starting to notice the new Inquisitor theme

Spoiler

when Reva's shuttle landed on Jabiim - it's in a similar vein to the Moff Gideon theme, and I love it.


Am intrigued and excited to listen to the album once it comes out. Good stuff this week - can't wait for the next and last one!

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I could definitely hear hints of the Force theme in this episode along with more Imperial March like bad guy music. We really need an official soundtrack release to form opinions of this music. I think I like some of it, but I can't really tell.

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We talk of "hints" and "seeds" in here and there weren't any real strong ones heard so far in this series...until now. Five full eps later and nearly the end of the series. The obvious Imperial March rhythm accompanying Vader in this ep was the level of "seeding" that should've been implemented since ep1 for the other themes. Minimal sherlocking was needed to identify that and the main melody wasn't even played. It's the perfect balance between seeding and sherlocking. So you see, Natalie Holt, you can hide themes without it requiring an absurd amount of digging, searching, and theorizing. Why you didn't do it sooner is beyond me.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Andy said:

Everyone is so focused on themes, themes, themes.  I'd be happy if there was just some appealing textures or motifs.  I'm not hearing the seeds others are, and perhaps it's because I'm invested in the show and not trying to listen through the sound design.  But I am not getting those goosebumps when you have the perfect marriage of little accents and melodies that accompany the big moments.  A simple example is the Rise of Skywalker scene of Finn and Poe blasting through the hallways to rescue Chewbacca.  There's a lively and appealing brass march that is not overbaked, but perfectly orchestrated to complement the visuals and sound effects.  That's Star Wars music.  Everything here sounds just smeared like a finger-painting.

 

I love when film music sizzles just enough so that you get that accent on the visuals, but doesn't dominate nor disappear.  That perfect balance.

That's what I meant before. I wouldn't be much happier If Holt mil-cut the force theme into her brick of music. It would just make the issue, that you described, more obvious.

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The music barely made an impression on me this episode. The only cue ( ;) ) I remember fondly is the piece that plays when the transport ships are launched from the Star Destroyer, seems to be another variation of the logo music

I heard a vague attempt of referencing Battle of the Heroes during the flashback fight but it was so disparate and limp that I'm not even sure. Reva's march is catchy but repetitive and is orchestrated in a way that sounds oddly artificial, which if it wasn't for a lot of the other cues I'd think was an intentional comment on her character. Also does not help that my brain keeps correcting it into the Imperial March, even though it's an off-shoot I find it doesn't stand on its own as much as say Krennic's theme or the Rogue One Imperial theme where it's built from the same DNA but has its own distinct melody and rhythm 

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2 hours ago, Andy said:

Everyone is so focused on themes, themes, themes.  I'd be happy if there was just some appealing textures or motifs.  I'm not hearing the seeds others are, and perhaps it's because I'm invested in the show and not trying to listen through the sound design.  But I am not getting those goosebumps when you have the perfect marriage of little accents and melodies that accompany the big moments.  A simple example is the Rise of Skywalker scene of Finn and Poe blasting through the hallways to rescue Chewbacca.  There's a lively and appealing brass march that is not overbaked, but perfectly orchestrated to complement the visuals and sound effects.  That's Star Wars music.  Everything here sounds just smeared like a finger-painting.

 

I love when film music sizzles just enough so that you get that accent on the visuals, but doesn't dominate nor disappear.  That perfect balance.

 

If we're going to get music that is just slathered in, I'd rather have none at all, and let the sound designers provoke our ears with silence and crystal clear effects that crackle.  Speederbike Chase.  Bespin Duel.  Podrace.  Battle of Yavin (middle section).  Sometimes less is more, and conservative spotting is the way to go.  Maybe we wouldn't need all these ghost writers if everything wasn't scored top to bottom.

 

 

 

everything in this post a thousand times!

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5 hours ago, DIamondFire said:

I really really enjoyed the Anakins Dark Deeds that plays at the end. It's subtle but we haven't heard it in that way before.

 

I'm sorry, but that capital "I" in your username has been bothering me for months. :lol:

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Absolutely fair, but I wonder how one would go about doing that besides a Spielberg type becoming influential again, since I kind of get the impression the public doesn't know what they want. They complain about the thematically inconsistent music in Marvel movies, but praise Zimmer and his poorly imitated style as if it were the second coming of Christ. Not really sure how to make of any of it.

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4 hours ago, DIamondFire said:

don't even get me started on it. I haven't figured out if I can change it and it was an ACCIDENT when signing up lol

 

Of course you can change it, just click your screenname in the upper right corner, then click "Account Settings"

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Why do I have a bad feeling that the Ross music either won't be included on the soundtrack album, or if it is, that many of his highlights will be missing?

 

I could also imagine a situation in which—even if his music is included on the album—Natalie Holt is listed as the artist for each track, but then you go look at the "composer" metadata behind the scenes and lo and behold, some of the tracks list William Ross as the composer.

 

This obviously should not happen, since he is as much an "artist" as a "composer"; he is listed separately in the credits, he conducted his tracks, his stuff was recorded in a different studio, with different production staff, etc. But for some odd reason I can just imagine Holt getting all the credit on the surface, and Ross not being given the credit he is due.

 

I can understand situations like in TCW and Bad Batch, where a track will list Kevin Kiner as the artist, but then the composer field will actually list David G. Russell, Sean Kiner, Dean Kiner, etc. But the difference is, those guys are all on Kiner's team. Ross is a separate entity from Holt; he should not be treated as a background guy like her additional music composers.

 

Basically, I don't want Ross to get swept under the rug. He clearly did a lot of work on this show, he got a standalone credit in the end credits of each episode right after Holt, etc. It would be kind of outrageous if his music isn't there on the OST. But I must admit, I'm worried by the fact that it seems there will only be one album, for all six episodes. Of course, it's a digital release, so they could dump all the music on one album... but based on Loki, Mando, Bad Batch, etc., I was expecting the music to be split onto at least two volumes.

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On 16/06/2022 at 6:11 PM, HunterTech said:

Absolutely fair, but I wonder how one would go about doing that besides a Spielberg type becoming influential again, since I kind of get the impression the public doesn't know what they want. They complain about the thematically inconsistent music in Marvel movies, but praise Zimmer and his poorly imitated style as if it were the second coming of Christ. Not really sure how to make of any of it.

 

Thematic consistency is least of Marvel music's problem. The bigger problem is the lack of memorability. Again, out of 25 or so films, you have 4-5 films with great music and maybe the Avengers theme is the only truly recognizable theme in the franchise still. Zimmer wrote more memorable stuff in one film (WW84 or even Batman v Superman) than all those Marvel composers. You can complain about Dune all you want, but when you hear the percussion riff and the banshee cry, you know it is Dune. That is more than I can say for majority of the Marvel film music. 

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On 16/06/2022 at 5:15 AM, Andy said:

Everyone is so focused on themes, themes, themes.  I'd be happy if there was just some appealing textures or motifs.

Themes and motifs are the bread and butter of the Star Wars musical universe, but you didn't need me to tell you that. It is not a stretch to be focused on those things in a series that's a direct sequel to the prequel trilogy and with a main theme by Williams himself. Honestly, I would also be happy if there were just appealing textures, but those are the kind of expectations I'd have for modern generic action flicks like Marvel films...

 

On 16/06/2022 at 5:15 AM, Andy said:

I'm not hearing the seeds others are, and perhaps it's because I'm invested in the show and not trying to listen through the sound design.  But I am not getting those goosebumps when you have the perfect marriage of little accents and melodies that accompany the big moments.

You didn't hear the seeds because there really weren't any until ep5. The ones that were pointed out to me that appeared in earlier eps were very weak, trivial, and may as well not exist. You're not getting goosebumps because many of these "big" moments involved legacy characters and there were no legacy themes heard, which robbed the score of its goosebumps inducing effectiveness.

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The DC universe is musically a mess so i dont think that those movies are the best example for memorability... Btw aside from Wonder woman theme i dont remember any other music from those two movies...

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

The DC universe is musically a mess so i dont think that those movies are the best example for memorability... Btw aside from Wonder woman theme i dont remember any other music from those two movies...

 

The DC universe absolutely can do better with music too. Music in the superhero genre in general is probably the most underwhelming vs its potential. 

 

I was referring to cues like "A Beautiful Lie." But even outside of Wonder Woman, Zimmer's two note Batman theme or even his one note Joker theme is more recognizable than most Marvel scores. Zimmer's "Flight" and his Man of Steel theme are probably more recognizable as well. Microsoft used it for its Halo commercials. 

 

Regardless, I think people are asking for thematic consistency when there is barely anything memorable enough to demand such a consistency. 

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1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Zimmer's DC music may be more recognizable, but that doesn't make them good scores. I think I prefer listening to almost every MCU score, memorable or not, than to the drum inferno that is Man of Steel.

 

That is fine. But when Hunter said "the public doesn't know what they want," they actually do. They want something that is culturally cool, transcends movies, and live in their memory. That is why Zimmer is the "second coming of Christ" to them. Not hard to understand. 

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On 17/06/2022 at 2:13 PM, Jay said:

 

Of course you can change it, just click your screenname in the upper right corner, then click "Account Settings"

You say that but on most forums I've been on I couldn't haha

 

 

not that I've been on many forums, I'm not that old :(

On 18/06/2022 at 6:25 AM, Tydirium said:

Why do I have a bad feeling that the Ross music either won't be included on the soundtrack album, or if it is, that many of his highlights will be missing?

 

I could also imagine a situation in which—even if his music is included on the album—Natalie Holt is listed as the artist for each track, but then you go look at the "composer" metadata behind the scenes and lo and behold, some of the tracks list William Ross as the composer.

 

This obviously should not happen, since he is as much an "artist" as a "composer"; he is listed separately in the credits, he conducted his tracks, his stuff was recorded in a different studio, with different production staff, etc. But for some odd reason I can just imagine Holt getting all the credit on the surface, and Ross not being given the credit he is due.

 

I can understand situations like in TCW and Bad Batch, where a track will list Kevin Kiner as the artist, but then the composer field will actually list David G. Russell, Sean Kiner, Dean Kiner, etc. But the difference is, those guys are all on Kiner's team. Ross is a separate entity from Holt; he should not be treated as a background guy like her additional music composers.

 

Basically, I don't want Ross to get swept under the rug. He clearly did a lot of work on this show, he got a standalone credit in the end credits of each episode right after Holt, etc. It would be kind of outrageous if his music isn't there on the OST. But I must admit, I'm worried by the fact that it seems there will only be one album, for all six episodes. Of course, it's a digital release, so they could dump all the music on one album... but based on Loki, Mando, Bad Batch, etc., I was expecting the music to be split onto at least two volumes.

I feel like you've said this 50 times lmao

 

Why would he NOT be included?? bro if a song by fucking thundercat can get onto the book of boba soundtrack anything can

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