Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)

[michael_grig 464]

I've done an overview of the themes of the Obi-Wan Kenobi series (more than you might think!) and identified how the album tracks are used in the episodes. In case of errors please report!

 

 

Currently I'm still a little unsure about the "Agony" theme, so if anyone feels like checking this out, please do!

Obi-Wan Kenobi Themes.pdf

[Jay 37,285]

Thank you, that's great!

[Exar Xan 1]

1 hour ago, Michael G. said:

I've done an overview of the themes of the Obi-Wan Kenobi series (more than you might think!) and identified how the album tracks are used in the episodes. In case of errors please report!

 

 

Currently I'm still a little unsure about the "Agony" theme, so if anyone feels like checking this out, please do!

Obi-Wan Kenobi Themes.pdf 114.02 kB · 8 downloads

This is amazing, thanks!

[Oswin Pond 58]

1 hour ago, Michael G. said:

Currently I'm still a little unsure about the "Agony" theme, so if anyone feels like checking this out, please do!

Obi-Wan Kenobi Themes.pdf 114.02 kB · 10 downloads

Unsure about what? If it exists? I can confirm it does I noticed it in my viewing, glad to see it listed!

[Jay 37,285]

So if I am understand the document correctly, the album features 15 different themes?

 

Williams' Obi-Wan

1. (Williams) 01 Obi-Wan (A,B, Ostinato 1, Ostinato 2, Ostinato 3)
2. (Ross) 06 The Journey Begins (Ostinato 1, A, B)
3. (Ross) 13 First Rescue (A, Ostinato 1)
4. (Ross) 18 Some Things Can't Be Forgotten (Ostinato 1, A, B)
5. (Holt) 20 Hangar Escape (A)
6. (Holt) 23 Dark Side Assault (A)
7. (Ross) 24 I Will Do What I Must (A)
8. (Ross) 27 Overcoming The Past (A, Ostinato 1)
9. (Holt) 29 Who You Become (A)
10. (Ross) 30 Saying Goodbye (A, B)
11. (Ross) 31 End Credits (Ostinato 1, A, B, Ostinato 2, Ostinato 3)

Williams' Imperial March

1. (Holt) 22 Empire Arrival
2. (Holt) 26 No Further Use
3. (Ross) 27 Overcoming The Past

Williams' Princess Leia

1. (Ross) 30 Saying Goodbye

Williams' The Force

1. (Ross) 30 Saying Goodbye

Ross's Logo Theme

1. (Ross) 13 First Rescue
2. (Ross) 18 Some Things Can't Be Forgotten

Ross's Menacing Vader

1. (Ross) 18 Some Things Can't Be Forgotten
2. (Ross) 24 I Will Do What I Must
3. (Ross) 27 Overcoming The Past

Ross's Battle Theme

1. (Ross) 24 I Will Do What I Must
2. (Ross) 27 Overcoming The Past

Holt's Reva/Inquisitors

1. (Holt) 3 Inquisitor's Hunt
2. (Holt) 11 Cat and Mouse
3. (Holt) 17 Parallel Lines
4. (Holt) 19 Stormtrooper Patrol
5. (Holt) 22 Empire Assault
6. (Holt) 26 No Further Use
7. (Holt) 28 Tatooine Desert Chase

Holt's Alderaan

1. (Holt) 4 Young Leia
2. (Holt) 5 Days of Alderaan
3. (Holt) 7 Bail and Leia

Holt's Young Leia

1. (Holt) 4 Young Leia
2. (Holt) 17 Parallel Lines
3. (Holt) 23 Dark Side Assault

Holt's Agony

1. (Holt) 08 Nari's Shadow
2. (Holt) 17 Parallel Lines
3. (Holt) 25 Sacrifice

Holt's Obi-Wan

1. (Holt) 09 Ready To Go
2. (Holt) 21 Hold Hands

Holt's Daiyu

1. (Holt) 10 Daiyu
2. (Holt) 12 Spice Den

Holt's Aggressive Vader

1. (Holt) 11 Cat and Mouse
2. (Holt) 16 Sensing Vader
3. (Holt) 17 Parallel Lines
4. (Holt) 26 No Further Use

Holt's Stormtroopers

1. (Holt) 19 Stormtrooper Patrol
2. (Holt) 22 Empire Arrival
3. (Holt) 23 Dark Side Assault

 

Plus Dies Irae and whatever "Martial Chords" is...

[michael_grig 464]

In the updated version, I have removed the trauma theme. The melodic structures are too different.... But still a very extensive thematic catalog, thanks for summarizing!

[Jay 37,285]

Updated version?

[michael_grig 464]

Yup. It has the same title, I just replaced the original XD.

[Jay 37,285]

Ah, I see.  I removed it from my summary then

[michael_grig 464]

+ you forgot the Dies Irae theme. It's a borderline case, of course, because it wouldn't really be composed by any of the three, but I think the two uses in this series are a nice continuation of the mysteriousness that this theme has in the Star Wars universe.

[Jay 37,285]

I also realized that if the "Appearance in Episodes" column is all accurate, then you've also figured out the chronological order of the OST album

 

Not in show

1. (Williams) 01 Obi-wan
2. (Holt) 09 Ready To Go

Every episode

1. (Ross) 31 End Credits

Episode 1

1. (Holt) 02 Order 66
2. (Holt) 03 Inquisitor’s Hunt
3. (Holt) 04 Young Leia
4. (Holt) 05 Days of Alderaan
5. (Holt) 07 Bail and Leia
6. (Holt) 08 Nari’s Shadow
7. (Ross) 06 The Journey Begins

Episode 2

1. (Holt) 10 Daiyu
2. (Holt) 12 Spice Den
3. (Holt) 11 Cat and Mouse

Episode 3

1. (Holt) 14 Mapuzo
2. (Holt) 15 The Path
3. (Holt) 16 Sensing Vader

Episode 4

1. (Holt) 17 Parallel Lines 
2. (Holt) 19 Stormtrooper Patrol
3. (Ross) 13 First Rescue
4. (Holt) 20 Hangar Escape
5. (Holt) 21 Hold Hands

Episode 5

1. (Ross) 18 Some Things Can’t Be Forgotten
2. (Holt) 22 Empire Arrival 
3. (Holt) 23 Dark Side Assault
4. (Holt) 25 Sacrifice
5. (Holt) 26 No Further Use

Episode 6

1. (Ross) 24 I Will Do What I Must
2. (Holt) 28A [0:00-1:15] Tatooine Desert Chase
3. (Ross) 27 Overcoming the Past
4. (Holt) 28B [1:15-end] Tatooine Desert Chase
5. (Holt) 29 Who You Become
6. (Ross) 30 Saying Goodbye

 

Have people figured out what scene "Ready To Go" was likely composed for?

[michael_grig 464]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

Have people figured out what scene "Ready To Go" was likely composed for?

You could guess from the title that it's from the finale of Episode 1, where he does go on his journey, but I just played this track over the scene and it's way too long and doesn't really fit the scene.... Maybe it was for a version of that finale that was longer or different somehow. 

 

[Jay 37,285]

Maybe someone could try asking Natalie on social media what scene(s) it was composed for?

[michael_grig 464]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Plus Dies Irae and whatever "Martial Chords" is...

 These are the Martial Chords XD.

[Jay 37,285]

I wouldn't say the bit in "First Rescue" is the same as that bit in that video.

[michael_grig 464]

 

[Jay 37,285]

That sounds like when the death star blows up, not the beginning of the movie

[michael_grig 464]

Absolutely correct! See the catalog from @Falstaft:

 

[Jay 37,285]

"Called 'Holst Chords' by Williams" - where did he call it that?

[michael_grig 464]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

 

Ross's Menacing Vader

1. (Ross) 18 Some Things Can't Be Forgotten
2. (Ross) 24 I Will Do What I Must

This theme also occurs in 27 Overcoming the Past.

 

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Holt's Stormtroopers

1. (Holt) 23 Dark Side Assault

 

This also in 19 Stormtrooper Patrol and 22 Empire Arrival

[Jay 37,285]

Fixed!

[DiamondFire 67]

I'm trying to make a small playlist of my favourites from the soundtrack and I'm not sure what to put.

 

'Hanger Escape'

'Saying Goodbye'

'Ready To Go'

'Young Leia'

'Empire Arrival'

'No Further Use'

'The Journey Begins'

That's all hmm

[Jay 37,285]

So, does anybody here want to try asking Natalie Holt on social media what scene(s) "Ready To Go" was composed for?

[michael_grig 464]

I will try.

How do you do it?

Via personal messenger or as a comment on one of her posts?

[Jay 37,285]

Someone else will have to answer that, I don't use any social media

 

But probably just tweet at her, no?

[michael_grig 464]

I just saw, that somebody already asked her. 

 

No answer ;(

 

 

 

 

[Jay 37,285]

Bummer

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

The one thing I will say is that, as others have already said, Holt's music is all in chronological order (as is Ross', but they are in their own separate orders), so that could perhaps give us a clue as to where it could've gone. I'll might try syncing it up to the finale of episode 1 later and see if that works.

[Jay 37,285]

3 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I'll might try syncing it up to the finale of episode 1 later and see if that works.

 

On 05/07/2022 at 4:26 PM, Michael G. said:

You could guess from the title that it's from the finale of Episode 1, where he does go on his journey, but I just played this track over the scene and it's way too long and doesn't really fit the scene.... Maybe it was for a version of that finale that was longer or different somehow. 

 

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

It kind of fits if started right when Obi takes out his shovel. Whether or not the ending was re-edited before Ross wrote his cues though I guess we have no idea.

[Jay 37,285]

When I watched the first episode, I really liked all the Ross variations on William's theme that played throughout the episode.  Did they really only put the final one of those on the OST album?

I wish they had just released two OST albums, one with all of Holt's stuff (including cues replaced in the final episodes), and one with all of Williams and Ross's stuff...

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Yeah I think there was definitely at least a bit of re-editing done very late, but it seems clear that "Ready to Go" was indeed meant for the finale. What seems strange though is that this cue was still recorded after John and Bill came in; I would've thought they'd have simply scrapped it, unless the re-edit took place extremely late, like within a month or so before release. Either way, I'm glad Bill redid the music. This is... not good.

 

 

[greenturnedblue 372]

Reminds me of Jablonski's material for the Transformers movies

[Madmartigan JC 85]

Here's a new interview with Natalie Holt on Obi Wan:

 

 

Source: https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2022/07/natalie-holt-interview-trb-transcript.html

You can also check out the link for some transcribed highlights.
 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

The main takeaway here is that the last two episodes were heavily re-edited very late, after she scored them. Seemed pretty obvious, but now there's solid confirmation.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

She is giving a heck lot of interviews…

[DiamondFire 67]

On 02/07/2022 at 5:11 PM, Edmilson said:

Yeah, his reviews are mostly positive, even if the score in question is not that good, like with this one. He even wrote glowing reviews about Balfe recently...

You aren't allowed diss Balfe after he made the banger soundtrack that is "Man Vs. Bee"
 

[michael_grig 464]

08:32-09:39: Goddamn, here you can see that it's not Natalie Holt who's to blame for the mess, but (as usual) Kathleen Kennedy and the director. Why please did they want her to take her theme even further away from the original Leia theme?

[Dave 217]

You can't have flutes in a 2022 score. Or oboes.. or clarinets.. way to 'orchestral' for a minimal and modern score.

Thats the new way:

Good guys: EPIC HORNS! (at least 37 playing in unison)

Bad guys: EPIC TROMBONES! (all brass vst libraries you have, played at once)

 

But really.. version 17??

[DiamondFire 67]

6 hours ago, Michael G. said:

08:32-09:39: Goddamn, here you can see that it's not Natalie Holt who's to blame for the mess, but (as usual) Kathleen Kennedy and the director. Why please did they want her to take her theme even further away from the original Leia theme?

Kathy does not usually fuck things up?? tf

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I'm really curious what she would have been able to deliver without all of the executives and producers micro-managing her music.

[artguy360 1,843]

I think it's incredibly sad that the director of series producer (for shows that have multiple directors) don't have final say on the score. The score should be a collaboration between the composer (and everyone they work with) and the primary storyteller, be that a director or series producer. High level executives vetoing or giving notes on the score seems like a bad structure for making films and TV shows or any creative endeavor.

[GerateWohl 4,328]

16 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I think it's incredibly sad that the director of series producer (for shows that have multiple directors) don't have final say on the score. The score should be a collaboration between the composer (and everyone they work with) and the primary storyteller, be that a director or series producer. High level executives vetoing or giving notes on the score seems like a bad structure for making films and TV shows or any creative endeavor.

I think, your statement highly depends on who this high level executive is. If it would be George Lucas or a Steven Spielberg, you might say, luckily there is a high level executive for some kind of quality assurance. It doesn't matter who has the last word, as long as it is someone with the right taste, or?

In general I would say, creative directors, composers, high level executives should just be aligned better in advance what they expect and not say "Sure. You are the creative power here. Do what you want." And afterwards starting to micro-manage everything.

 

[artguy360 1,843]

56 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

I think, your statement highly depends on who this high level executive is. If it would be George Lucas or a Steven Spielberg, you might say, luckily there is a high level executive for some kind of quality assurance. It doesn't matter who has the last word, as long as it is someone with the right taste, or?

In general I would say, creative directors, composers, high level executives should just be aligned better in advance what they expect and not say "Sure. You are the creative power here. Do what you want." And afterwards starting to micro-manage everything.

 

No, I think the director on a film or series producer on a series should have the final say in collaboration with the composer. If George Lucas isn't the director, then he shouldn't have final say. Same for Steven Spielberg. For example, Spielberg is technically a producer for the Halo tv series. I don't think his opinion on the score should matter at all. 

[DangerMotif 1,037]

The only thing that makes no sense to me is that I doubt JW would block Ross from using his themes

[Jay 37,285]

Yet another Holt interview

 

https://www.jedinews.com/podcasts/articles/full-of-sith-episode-cdlxvi-composer-natalie-holt/

[publicist 4,643]

23 hours ago, artguy360 said:

No, I think the director on a film or series producer on a series should have the final say in collaboration with the composer. If George Lucas isn't the director, then he shouldn't have final say. Same for Steven Spielberg. For example, Spielberg is technically a producer for the Halo tv series. I don't think his opinion on the score should matter at all. 

 

Spielberg has been lauded as non-interferer by his colleagues, which makes JW's role on 'Kenobi' even more dubious. Why on earth do a power move like that and take over at the 11th hour from a female rookie composer and make yourself looking like an ogre? (and for a piece of shit series, at that)

[enderdrag64 624]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yet another Holt interview

 

https://www.jedinews.com/podcasts/articles/full-of-sith-episode-cdlxvi-composer-natalie-holt/

I haven't finished the interview yet but damn I would've liked to have heard some of her earlier theme ideas. She says that she wrote a lot of Williams-esque themes and Deborah Chow didn't like any of them, the only early theme she approved was the RCP-like inquisitor theme

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

58 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

I haven't finished the interview yet but damn I would've liked to have heard some of her earlier theme ideas. She says that she wrote a lot of Williams-esque themes and Deborah Chow didn't like any of them, the only early theme she approved was the RCP-like inquisitor theme

I wish Deborah Chow had made a moderately unsuccessful film between Mando and Obi Wan so they could have fired her and gotten a better director 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I cringed when the interviewer brought up the Vader/Kenobi fight music in the third episode, clearly not knowing that she didn't write that.