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Natalie Holt's OBI-WAN KENOBI (2022)


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”When I started up on this project, we weren't sure that we were going to be allowed to use the John Williams themes. Deborah [Chow] was saying to me, "I think we need to score the show as if we're not going to be able to use them." She was like, "I don't want to find out that we can't, so let's make it work without. Let's do our own thing." ”

 

"John Williams watched the whole show, and he granted permission for his themes to be used in episode six and in certain places, and where the Yoda theme would go, and then that set the tentpoles for me. Like, "Okay, we can't use the themes until this point, so we need to be leading to them." "

 

This is the quote from the interview, looks like that they need to have JW's consent to use it

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So is Williams suggesting that in the event that he had scored the entire show himself, he would only have used his legacy themes in Episode 6 and "a certain few other places".

 

Yeah right.

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30 minutes ago, LSH said:

So is Williams suggesting that in the event that he had scored the entire show himself, he would only have used his legacy themes in Episode 6 and "a certain few other places".

 

Yeah right.

I bet he (or his lawyers) would demand even more prominent screen credit with Ross and Holt being relagated to "adapted" section.  

 

I have to say that I don't particularly care if they do use any old themes. Sort of dilutes their power if overused. Plus, generally speaking, other composers tend to do it poorly.

 

Karol

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Again. Just look at what Giacchino and Powel did. They hardly used any original Star Wars themes, but still they managed to sound like Star Wars. That's what all live action TV shows managed to fail at.

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1 hour ago, crocodile said:

I have to say that I don't particularly care if they do use any old themes. Sort of dilutes their power if overused. Plus, generally speaking, other composers tend to do it poorly.

 

Karol

 

Yes.  I'll paraphrase it again, I don't need themes.  The Force theme was overused in, say, the Last Jedi.  I need interesting motifs, textures, sonics that tickle the ear in balance with the on screen action.  Not to overpower the sound design, and not to be lost.  Balance.  I think finding the right register of the orchestra in contrast to the effects track has a lot to do with that.

 

In other words, good music.

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5 hours ago, Jaaaackified said:

 - Director asked her to score the show on the assumption that they are not able to use any JW music

 

I really don't get this at all; I've always thought that the studio companies own the music. I used to think this is the main reason why there are so many concert arrangements /  suites created by Williams himself so he can perform them whenever and whereever he wants to.

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I have a difficult time believing JW would micromanage what themes can be used to such an extent. Could be another bold lie from Holt. And JW also has no right to say what themes can be used. Lucasfilm owns the themes.

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Well, by all rights - using the Solo format, and given how much Ross contributed - the credits should read:

 

KENOBI THEME AND ORIGINAL STAR WARS MUSIC BY

JOHN WILLIAMS

 

SCORE COMPOSED AND ADAPTED BY

NATALIE HOLT AND WILLIAM ROSS

 

Despite the lack of any meaningful contribution, they just seem so hung up on Holt being the 'musical face' of the show, I wonder why.

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1 minute ago, LSH said:

 

 

They just seem so hung up on Holt being the 'musical face' of the show. I wonder why.

Because they sold her as the first star wars female composer.

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1 minute ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Because they sold her as the first star wars female composer.

 

Yeah, sorry, I was being sarcastic.

 

I wonder what the 'rules' are on the upcoming Andor series. While it's not based on legacy characters, much like The Mandalorian, I expect something will be shoe-horned in for 'memberberries' sake.

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He didnt have any theme associated by him…so in this case there could be a clean state thematically. I would prefer a williams sounding score anyway. Of course if any jedi or full rebellion appears, then force theme or rebel fanfare would be welcome. Oh and imperial march or motif from anh.

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2 hours ago, LSH said:

 

Yeah, sorry, I was being sarcastic.

 

I wonder what the 'rules' are on the upcoming Andor series. While it's not based on legacy characters, much like The Mandalorian, I expect something will be shoe-horned in for 'memberberries' sake.

 

'Succession' Composer Nicholas Britell Tapped for Star Wars' 'Andor' - Variety

 

an interview on this matter a month ago

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27 minutes ago, Jaaaackified said:

 

Thanks.

 

8 hours ago, Jaaaackified said:

”When I started up on this project, we weren't sure that we were going to be allowed to use the John Williams themes."

 

I absolutely hate this quote.

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9 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

That still doesn't explain why her remaining music for the show is so bad.

That's a different story tbh. I like a lot of her stuff despite it not being very complex, that interview is interesting though.

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19 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Wow.

 

It's one thing to be unhappy about the sound of a score and wish they'd used themes more. It's quite another to accuse a composer of lying in an interview becuase you don't like what they've said.


Huh? There’s a reason he said “another” lie; this isn’t her first time.

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26 minutes ago, Counterparts said:

The George Lucas thing?

 

That's a possibility.

 

31 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

What was the first one?

 

IIRC, her story about how/when JW got involved has changed. First, it was like he called up and wanted to write a theme, but in a recent interview she acted like she always knew going in that he was going to be involved/that she was going to work with him.

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Wow. Doug Adams on Twitter just mentioned that JW had about 75% of his thematic material pulled from Rogue One. Has this been reported on before?

 

this just doesn’t make sense to me. They didn’t know if they could use JW’s themes? AND he only allowed them to be used at certain times? Wow.
Yet The Clone Wars series, and Rebels, used his themes all over the place. Somehow I doubt JW watched and approved every episode of Clone Wars. So what gives?
 

This seems like quite the revelation: that JW gets approval over how his themes are used. Perhaps it was part of some renegotiation when he agreed to score the sequel trilogy or something? Is this new knowledge or was this known beforehand?

 

 


this is Doug Adams tweeting about the JW approving his themes in Obi Wan and then talking about how this isn’t the first time JW has had approval

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8 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

That's a possibility.

 

 

IIRC, her story about how/when JW got involved has changed. First, it was like he called up and wanted to write a theme, but in a recent interview she acted like she always knew going in that he was going to be involved/that she was going to work with him.

TBF, she could have assumed she would, then was under the impression that she wouldnt, and then he did?

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Rogue One still used a lot of Williams' themes though, both the most iconic and the less famous ones.

 

So he actually sat with the producers, watched the movie and said "I don't want a theme I wrote in this and that scene, but in this one you're allowed to use it".

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Gitz said:

Wow. Doug Adams on Twitter just mentioned that JW had about 75% of his thematic material pulled from Rogue One. Has this been reported on before?

 

this just doesn’t make sense to me. They didn’t know if they could use JW’s themes? AND he only allowed them to be used at certain times? Wow.
Yet The Clone Wars series, and Rebels, used his themes all over the place. Somehow I doubt JW watched and approved every episode of Clone Wars. So what gives?
 

This seems like quite the revelation: that JW gets approval over how his themes are used. Perhaps it was part of some renegotiation when he agreed to score the sequel trilogy or something? Is this new knowledge or was this known beforehand?

 

 


this is Doug Adams tweeting about the JW approving his themes in Obi Wan and then talking about how this isn’t the first time JW has had approval

 

I thought the issue with Rogue One was that Giacchino had virtually copy-pasted large chunks of JW's pre-existing Star Wars music? The deal was that either Giacchino needed to rewrite that stuff, or JW would get a big composer credit (and a lot of money) with Giacchino getting an "adapted by" credit or something. Disney opted for just having him rewrite it, which might explain why we ended up with stuff like MG's Imperial theme which sounds like a rush job pastiche (to my ears), rather than the actual Imperial March. It all makes sense when you consider how rushed he was.

 

15 minutes ago, Counterparts said:

TBF, she could have assumed she would, then was under the impression that she wouldnt, and then he did?

 

Why would she assume that? Did Ludwig Göransson assume he would be working with John Williams? Did Kevin Kiner? Did Michael Giacchino? I'm not sure why she would just assume she would get to work with him.

 

14 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Rogue One still used a lot of Williams' themes though, both the most iconic and the less famous ones.

 

So he actually sat with the producers, watched the movie and said "I don't want a theme I wrote in this and that scene, but in this one you're allowed to use it".

 

I don't think it's that JW an issue with his themes being used, period; I think it's that he had an issue with how MG was using them.

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Is this Rogue One mess why he would take a more active role in Solo?

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Dont remember where I heard it but I always thought John Williams always retained ownership of material he's written. Which is unusual usually the studio gets ownership as they hired the composer to write the music for them

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8 minutes ago, Andy said:

Is this Rogue One mess why he would take a more active role in Solo?

That's the general consensus, yeah.

 

5 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

John Williams always retained ownership of material he's written

Just for Star Wars, right? He didn't seem to care about what other composers did with his material for Superman, Harry Potter, Jurassic...

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It’s nice to see the Rogue One situation finally come to light. We had intel from some members a few years back but most of it was met with pearl-clutching saying Williams would never do such a thing as to get involved with Gia’s score. 
 

Doug also said he was offered Solo because of how unhappy he was that he wasn’t offered Rogue One. Never knew that one. 

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I wonder what is next for Natalie. She is sure to get some more work after this.

 

And Ross will wait for the next opportunity to fix somebody else's work.

 

Sounds fair.

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Which is

5 minutes ago, MikeH said:

It’s nice to see the Rogue One situation finally come to light. We had intel from some members a few years back but most of it was met with pearl-clutching saying Williams would never do such a thing as to get involved with Gia’s score. 
 

Doug also said he was offered Solo because of how unhappy he was that he wasn’t offered Rogue One. Never knew that one. 

 

which is INSANE to me. How is the first composer a Star Wars movie goes to not John Williams? I mean…that seems like an automatic no brainer. And they didn’t even offer it to him? Weird. 

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7 minutes ago, MikeH said:

Doug also said he was offered Solo because of how unhappy he was that he wasn’t offered Rogue One. Never knew that one. 

 

Me neither.  Sort of mind-blowing that they wouldn't think to ask.

3 minutes ago, LSH said:

I wonder what is next for Natalie. She is sure to get some more work after this.

 

Why Season 2, of course!

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3 minutes ago, LSH said:

I wonder what is next for Natalie. She is sure to get some more work after this.

 

She recently scored a fantasy movie for Hulu:

 

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/06/02/natalie-holt-scoring-le-van-kiets-hulu-film-the-princess/

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17 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

That's the general consensus, yeah.

 

Just for Star Wars, right? He didn't seem to care about what other composers did with his material for Superman, Harry Potter, Jurassic...

He wrote themes for superman IV and his orchestrator scored it...

 

He suggested Davis for III

52 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

 

 

Why would she assume that? I'm not sure why she would just assume she would get to work with him.

 

 

Maybe because of the Solo situation?

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9 minutes ago, Counterparts said:

He wrote themes for superman IV and his orchestrator scored it...

 

He suggested Davis for III

Sure, but still, we don't know if he cared about how Giacchino used his themes in Jurassic World, or Elfman in Justice League, Desplat in HP etc., as much as he did with R1.

 

Which is unfortunate, I'd love some Solo-style scores for other franchises. Imagine him writing new themes for Deathly Hallows and Jurassic World and suggesting someone else to work with them... :)

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1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Just for Star Wars, right? He didn't seem to care about what other composers did with his material for Superman, Harry Potter, Jurassic...

 

I'm not sure either way to be honest but clearly he's said he is very proud of scoring all nine films over 50 years. Clearly Star Wars is his crown jewel and I'm sure he is more invested how other composers handle his star wars material as opposite to Jurassic Park and Superman. Which are both excellent scores I just don't think they are as important to him personally 

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I feel like we're forgetting that a crucial difference between these recent projects and past pre-Disney ones is that all the ones involved here are purely live action. As such, it's very possible JW has a much greater obligation for SW media that more casual audiences are likely to watch, and as such would have a bit more expectations regarding the music.

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Just now, HunterTech said:

I feel like we're forgetting that a crucial difference between these recent projects and past pre-Disney ones is that all the ones involved here are purely live action. As such, it's very possible JW has a much greater obligation for SW media that more casual audiences are likely to watch, and as such would have a bit more expectations regarding the music.

 

So why do Haab's video game scores sound more like JW's Star Wars than any of these new live-action projects?

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